THE CARLOW INQUIRY.

The Minutes of Evidence given before the Carlow Election Corn.. mittee have been published. They occupy fifty-two closely-printed columns of the Times ; but much of this matter consists of copies of correspondence and details with which our readers are already familiar. There are also numerous repetitions of the same facts, as stated with immaterial discrepancies, by different witnesses. It is not therefore necessary, in order to present a clear view of the transaction, and of the conduct of the parties concerned in it, to give more than portions here and there, according as they possess interest, amusement, or im- portance, from the mass of evidence taken by the Committee. The examination of witnesses began on Monday the 29th of February. Mr. James Lyon appeared as agent for the Inquiry, and Sir. Joseph Parkes for Mr. O'Connell : it will be recidlected that the House of Commons appointed Sir F. Pollock and Sergeant Wilde to act as nominees, the first for the petitioners, the second for Mr. O'Connell. Mr. N. Ridley Colborne took the chair.

Mr. RAPHAEL was the first witness examined. Ile mentioned the circumstances attending his election in June 1835, very much to the same effect as in his letter or statement to the Electors of Carlow, published in the Times. The letters which be received from Mr. O'Connell were read as evidence ; and among them that in which Mr. O'Connell desired Raphael to send the particulars of his qualification to Mr. Baker. Raphael's examination in chief by Sir Frederick Pollock pm oceeded as follows- Did you employ Mr. Baker upon that occasion ?-n. Hail you ever employed Mr. Baker before that, upon any occasion ?-/Pertc; I had ne,. r seta him before. Were you consulted by anybody upon the employ tnent of Mr. Baker?-4V,. IQ you take any part-. in the proceedings at all ? -No; I had nothing to in with it; that was my answer to err-v.04,dg. Did you attend the Committee during the inquiry ?.-I believe I dill come in there once or twice, but I took no interest in it. I had a friend of mine there always, Mr. Hamilton. Was Mr. Hamilton the professional gentleman that you consulted upon the transac- tion ?--Yes.

Mr. Raphael assured the Committee that his memory was " very retentive," and he could venture to state the substance of some letters which were not produced. Among those, however, which were laid before the Committee, was one from O'Connell relative to the Baro- netcy, and Raphael's answer to it.

Did you hear from him (O'Connell) on the 3,1 of August ?-Yes. Have you that letter ?- Yes.

Will you produce it?-'That is a letter which, with deference, I would rather not produce : that a letter strictly confidential, and 1 have always said that I will not Int:duce without Mr. O'Connell's permission. CHAIRMAN-All those letters are confidential ?-This was written upon a point strictly confidential. Mr. Sergeant \Sor.nc---IY that is a letter which the gentleman has distinctly alluded to is k's printed letters. of coarse we wave all objection.

The stone was read as follows-

.. (Strictly confident ial.) 31 August 1833.

0 My dear Sir-Tell me in the strictest confidence. whether yon have any wish to be a Baronet. (II course 1 do not ask you without a sufficient r, aeon. 0 .e word is not to be communicated to anybody until 1 know your determination.

•• Believe tne to be yours, very faithfully.

" DANIEL O'CoNNELn."

Mr. Rarnar.t.-Then. in justice to me, I hope my answer may be read. Ilave you a copy of that answer ?-1 have.

The witness defivered iu the same, which was read.

" Great Stanhope Street. 3d August 1835.

•• My dear Sir-I have no hesitation in stating, that to obtain the honour you allude to would be a very high step in my ladder of ambitinn ; but I must in candour say,. that I should mushier it a poor recompense Mr the loss of my seat in Parliament; which, from what you Mil nte yesterday. is I fear, in great jeopardy. I rely, however, on your hilfilling your engagement with me to secure my seat, if possible, by fighting the battle so long as a bail vote for the petitioners remains un the poll,or at all events, to the end of the present session. To allow 56 of our votes to be struck on; would leave fearful odd* to contend with on a future vacancy. " I am, my dear Sir, your faithful and humble 'errant, e To Daniel O'Connell, Esq. AINEX•NDER

On the 4th of August, Raphael, rigors, and O'Connell, had a con- sultation ; when, said Raphael-

/ was t.dd.fiw the first time. that I was fighting the battle far myself and Mr. rigors; and Mr. O'Connell said to Mr. Vigor' tit course, Mr. Vigor!, you.want Mr. Raphael to come half way with you in the expenses? " and Mr. Vigors said, .• No, I do not %skit to spend a crown-piece. I do not want to be in Parliament." 1 think I may be allowed, by permission of the Chairman and the Committee. to say. that before we parted. Mr. O'Connell told me that that business was all right, that it would be done in three days. What business ?-The business that he alluded to on the 3d of August (the Ba- ronsstumlb)s.eq Subsequently to the 5th of August, Raphael had no communication with Mr. O'Connell on the subject of elections. He was asked if he bad no communication with him previurislu to the 28th of May, when, according to his statement, he first saw IfIr. O'Connell on the subject of the Carlow election ? He replied, that be had given up all the let- ters that had passed between them, except one which he wrote to O'Connell a few days before the unseating of Bruen and Kavanagh. Sir F. Pot.r.ocx-Have you a copy of that letter ?-1 have. I have not kept a copy of it, hut it is from my memory ; but if 31 r. O'Connell has it, I should wish it to be produced, Mr. O'Conws1.1.-I have it not. Sir F. Poi Locx-(lave)ou any thing which you believe to be a copy of it ?-Yes. Before any of the Members were unseated that letter was written?-Yea. The same was read as follows- - Great Stanhope Street, 23d May 1835. " Sir-In one of your many brilliant speeches, all of which I have read with mom there is this remarkable and by me never-to-be-forgotten seutiment-• 'retard is the idol of my worship; whoever is a friend to her is as dear to me as the red bloat that flows through my veins.' I am a friend to Ireland, and therefore I call upon you. Sir, to redeem that noble pledge. I do not ask you to assist tn, to a seat in Parliament, but say • You shall have a seat, and that very soon.' My gratitude to you shall le remembered, and I shall endeavour to tio my part towards relieving and making hapif the brave inhabitants of your ill-treated country." Was there any thing more ?-Nothing more than that, I believe: Mr. WARBURTON- IS that a verbatim copy. or the substance of a letter. that yot wrote, as nearly as you can recollect it ?-lt is more than the substance ;. Lthink it.k verbatim.

Writtea from memory?-Yea.

Mr. O'Cowssid.—As far as it gees, I take it to be verbatim?-1 used lo repeat it my-

• • • • •

Se am very correct. lord FRANCIS El:MERTON-0U Saturday you wrote that letter?—Yes; and on the Sunday 1 had the honour of dining with Mr. O'Connell, and he took Do notice of it. which I thought rather uncourteons. No answer came on Monday or Tuesday ; and on Wednesday I met Mr. Vigors at the Zoological Gardens, and the Thursday after Mr. O'Connell came. Mr. WA autmn—Did you meet Mr. O'Connell at Mr. Goldemid's 2—Yes. Mr. H. G. WARD—You wrote the day before you saw Mr. O'Connell ?—Yes.

Mr. Sergeaut WILDE—It was the day before you saw Mr. O'Connell you wrote that letter?—Yes. I wrote on the 23d : I dined with him on the 25th. Sir F. POLLOCK—On the Sunday he took no notice of it ?—No.

On the Wednesday, he met Mr. Vigors at the Zoological Society's rooms, and gave the following account of what passed there. Mr. Vigors came to me and said (I do not know whether he came from the House, or had received accounts from the House), but he said—" Half an hour ago. Messrs. Bruen and Kavanagh were unseated, and Carlow County is now open for yuu. Mr. O'Connell has some friend in view." I said. " Perhaps that is my self; " because I had a right to say that, haviug written to Mr. O'Connell on the preceding day ; of course I thought if there was any likelihood ot my being returned. that I should be the frieud. Having met him on the Sunday, and not meeting with a refusal ?—Yes. Mr. II. G. Wenn—You were acquainted with Mr. Vigors previously ?—Yee, of course ; 1 hut seen hint before that. had you talked with him on any matter connected with the election before?—The general election. Do you mean the election in January ?—Yes. • a • • • • As far ate you can recollect. state to the Committee the whole of the conversation that paeoel between you and Mr. Vigors ou the 2;th of May ? —He may have men- tioned something to me about money matters, but I paid no attention to it. I wanted to cuter into an arrangement with hint. having written to Mr. O'Connell and expecting an answer from him ; and in a great creed he might say something about money, but of course. it would nut be fur me enter into it with him.

You have stated all that passed between you and Mr. Vigors at that time ?— Yes. Did you see Sir. Vigors either on the Thlirsday, the Friday, the Saturday, or the Sunday immediately atter the Committee had declared the election void ?-1 think he called on Friday' and Saturday ; and I know on Sunday morning. as I had just returned from chapel, he called to say, " I cannot lied Mr. O'Connell ; 1 have been hunting for him. Where is he?"

Arc eon sure that Mr. Vigors called upon you on those days ?—I will not be sure, but I thiuk he celled on Friday and Saturday. Are yon sure that lie called upon you on Suriday ?—I am certain of it : for he said. " I have been hunting for Mr. O'Connell, and I cannot find him ; do you know where he is to be found?" I would not tell him that I had an appointment with him at two o'clock ; end after I left Mr. O'Coancies house on Sunday, in going through I lanover Square I saw Mr. Vigors, but would not tell him that I had just seen Mr. O'Connell and had made the arrangement with him. Did Mr. Views call upon vou before the meeting between you and Mr. O'Connell when the terms went settled? —11e called upon me on Friday and Saturday. Ile called on Sunday also. but I ((mild not enter into it.

But yuu saw him (Meru ante ?—I saw him after I left Mr. O'Connell, on Sunday. about three orbs k, in going through Ilanover Square. I suppose he was perm to Sir O'Connell ; and my son-in-law was in the carriage with me, and I said " That is Mr. Vigors, but I me, tibt rather not sec Men, as lie may ask me some questions which 1 would rather not answer." Mr. WA anutcrox— YOU do not haute that he sate you when you sate him 7—No.

Monday's proceedings were here closed. On the next day Haphaers examination was continued by Sir F. Pollock.

Did you ever make any application to him (Vigurs) to guarantee and save you harmless fi out the expense :—Never. Did he 1,-er apply to you to make asp payment of money ?—Nerer. Did he ever make any offer, as tine principal, to comply in the fullest sense of the honourable engagement made to indemnity yeu ?— He did nut know If the engagement. I never told hire what engagement I had made. Then is the CO1111-11H(110 to understand, that you neither applied to him, nor did lie ever make any offer to you?—Certainty. Did you ever learn from Mr.O'Connell that any of the money had found its way into Mr. Vigors's possession ?—That letter which he sent to n.e, requesting metre send back to him a roue-her to Mr. Vigors—that is the only time that he mentioned the name of Mr. Vieors. Ile said send me the voucher back. that is, the letter. You do not particularly remember the contents of that letter?—No, I do not. I had nothing to do with it. 1 was to be returned without any further espeuse; as he wicked it to be sent back, I sent it back immediately to him.

These were the most important part of Raphael's evidence, on his examination in chief. He was then cross.examined by Mr. Sergeant Wilde; and was asked how many places be had attempted to represent?

Will you be so good as to mention the places where you issued addresses?—Now, Mr. Chairman, I do not know whether I am required to answer any question that is not connected with the Carlow election; my summons is upon the Carlow petition. CHA1RMAN—Very true, but I dare say Mr. Sergeant Wilde is not going into any detail upon that point.

Mr. Sergeant WILDE—Not at all.

CHAIRS/As—Then answer the question.

Mr. Sergeant WILDE—(lad you been candidate to represent the borough of Eve- sham ?—Yes.

And Pomfret ?—Yes.

And the City of Westminster ?—No; there was no vacancy. Had you published an address?—Yea.

With a view of becoming a candidate?—Yes, certainly, however bold the enterprise. Any other place that you recollect—any borough in Lancashire ?—I went down to Preston, but it was too late; and then I was advised to go to South Lancashire or North Lancashire, but I did not go.

At what period was it that you became desirous of representing those places ?— Evesham as soon as the disabilities were removed ; Evesham was the first that offered. Will you endeavour to press your recollection as to whether you had had any com- munication with Mr. O'Connell, verbal or written, upon the subject of Carlow, before the eloquent letter that you stated the other day, of t he month of May?—:fever. You say you have a pretty accurate memory ?-1 have. Had you had communication with any other persons than Mr. O'Connell upon the subject of representing Carlow ?-1 never applied to any person. Whether you applied to them or they to you, had you any communication with any person upon the subject of representing Carlow, before your application to Mr. O'Con- nell?—In the last general eleevion, in December 1834.

Do the Committee understand you that you had communications with other persons? —I do sot know whether it can be called communication. 1 recollect a person said the county of Carlota will be a good thing for you.

To whom do you refer as being the person?—Charles Pearson.

By further questions it was elicited, with great difficulty, that Mr. .Raphael bad negotiated with Mr. Tyrrell and Mr. Vigors, and with Mr. O'Connell, through Mr. Charles Pearson, respecting a seat for 'Carlow County in the autumn of 1834; that he was at the same time ,a candidate for Pomfret ; and that Mr. O'Connell had said, in a letter to Mr. Pearson, that Mr. Raphael lost Carlow through his indecision.

You have mentioned a communication with Mr. Pearson. lie was your Uuder- Sheriff ?--It repents me that he was my Under-Sherif

Then it is impressed on your memory ?—Yes. Did Mr. Pearson write to Mr. O'Connell upon the matter of the Carlow election ?— Not by my desire; I told him not to do it by my authority. Did you see any answer of Mr. O'Connell's to the letter of Mr. Pearson, whether written with or without authority?—Ile read one to Inc. Did you see a second letter to Mr. O'Connell upon the subject of that v.:cell:10-1 muly recollect his reading to me one letter.

The question is, did jou see a second letter from Mr. O'Connell?-1 do not recollect.

• • • •

Did you never receive from Mr. Pearson any letter at allot Mr. O'Connell's?—No. _ You have repeated an expression of Mr. OCoonell's letter, " that the indecision of the Sheriff had ea:motioned them to look elsewhese ?"—To the best of my recollection they were the words. Was that letter ur not an answer locate which had been written,'anuouncieg that you had become a candidate for the borough of Pomfret ? - I said berme, that r did not authorize Mr. l'earson to write to Mr. O'Connell ; when the Ammer came Mr. Pearson read it, and there was the expression, " the indecision of the Sheriff has made us took elsewhere."

Do not you know that that letter was in consequence of a letter to Mr. O'Connell, stating that you hod become candidate for the borouglt of Pomfret ?---I do not know that.

Was the communication between Mr. Pearson and Mr. O'Connell previous to your letter in May, which you read ?—Yes.

If this Committee understand you, Mr. Pearson in any communication by him a ith Mr. O'Connell, acted wholly without your authority ?-- Wholly without my authority.

Neither as your attorney, nor agent, nor friend, nor in any other capacity ?—He never was my agent.

And his acts were wholly unauthorized, as far as you were concerned ?—As far as I WAS euneernetl.

He utterly denied that he had had any communication with Mr. Vi- gors, Mr. Maher, Mr. Fitzgerald, or any other member of the Carlow Liberal Club, respecting the election, directly or indirectly, before the unseating of Bruen and Kavanagh, on the 27th of May 1835. He had never heard of the Liberal Club, or of any fund to assist perse- cuted voters.

Your arrangement with Mr. O'Connell was to pay two sums of 1000/. each ?

I lad you any conversation with any person as to the second thousand rounds being

applied to the purposes of any fund?—No; never. never.

(lad eel' had any conveisetion with any one upon the subject of the costs of the petition by which the vacancy bad been occasioned?—With my solicitor. With any of the gentlenteu whose names base been meutioued, Vigors. O'Connell.

Fitzgerald, Maher, or (taker ?—Nu. had you ever heard any thing of the Liberal Club being desirous. in the event of the voters being distraiued upon and being unable to sell their crops, to make them an advance ? —No.

You neeer heard of that 1, —No.

Or of the probability of those advances being to a considerable extent repaid to you?

—Never. You never sass any letter of Mr. O'Conuell's containing a statement to that effect ?

—No.

Or at all relating to such a subject ?—No.

!lad any other person ever been suggested as being a candidate with you for Carlow beAde, Mr. Vireos:—No.

Ii id euu ever heard any suggestion of Mr. Ponsonby being a candidate with you ?-- Yes.

When aid eon hear of that?—Thal I do not recollect. How tad you hear of it, or learn it ?—lt most be. I think, from Mr. Tyrrell: that is

theme!. IS.1,a/11 IllaL I know who WAS connected with Carlow.

Can Yoe tell the Committee ohm tau heard that?-1 cannot, indeed. Have you seen any statement of Air. O'Connell's upon that subject ?—No. Or heard it read to you, or a copy of it ?—Nu. No wi it teu communication in any form from Mr. O'Connell upon the subject ?—No.

Ile was pressed by Sergeant Wilde upon the point of O'Connell's agency for Vigors.

You state that you did nut know that Mr. O'Connell was acting on behalf of Mr. Vigors: you never heard of that ?—Nercr. Will eon state what vou understood by the letter of Mr. O'Connell's which con- tained this expression—" I have a note from Mr. Vigors, tow horn I am pledged, pressing me ttpott the subject," that is, in relation to the second thousand !Jimmie: " let me know at once oho is to give it me. I have a note from Mr. Vigors, to whom I am pledged. pressing me upon that suliect ?"—I assure you that I paid no nteention to that. I had nothing to do Wilk it. I sent the paper back, as Mr. O'Connell wished it to be seta ; but I paid no attention to it. fiat you have stated to the Committee, that you never heard or knew that Mr. O'Connell was acting on behalf of Mr. Vireos. In your printed letter eon set forth this letter from Mr. O'Connell, which you have produced hem: " My dear Sir—You did not say to velum I was to apply Mr the second sum of 1000/, according to our arrangement. It is necessary, absolutely necessary, it should he paid this day. Let nit' Melo at once olio is to give it to me. I have a note from Vigurs, to whom I am pledged, 'erosive, me on this subject. I, of course, am bound to him for the money." What did you uridendand by teat when you tell the Committee that e out never heard that Mr. teContr. II e as actine" ter Mr. Vigurs?-1 must again say, that 1 never under- stood Mr. O'Connell tided for Mr. Vigors. phut 1141 you understand by that passage which has been read ?—I understood no- thing at all ; I hat nothing to do with it.

Do you mean to tell the Committee that you drew no inference from that statement that Mr. 0 Connell was accountable to Mr. Vigors fur the money ?—I did not. Did you read the letter?-1 do not think that I read it with any attention. I did not want to have any thing to do with Mr. Vigors. Will eou reconcile to the Committee in the best way that you can, your answer that you never knew Mr. O'Connell acted on behalf of Mr. Vigors, with the paragraph in that letter received and read by you before you paid the second thousand pounds ?—I have untiring more to say. I will answer every question that is put to me; but, as I said berme, I did not ay any attention to that letter of Mr. Vigurs. I sent it back immediately by my friend, and I thought nothing of it. What did you send back ?—That letter.

By what friend ?--A friend of mine.

Who was that ?—A Mr. Morris.

For what purpose did you send it back again?—To comply with Mr. O'Connell's request.

You have not attended to the letter ; you are confounding it with another letter. This is not a letter that Mr. O'Connell begs to have back again ; this is a letter of July the 5th. Do you adhere to your answer that you sent this letter back again by Mr. Morris ?—Yes ; I sent the letter back.

Will you refer to the letter?—The witness refte-red to the letter.

Mr. Sergeant WILDS—Will you bear in mind that you have spoken of another letter sent to you, which was a letter from Mr. Vigor, to Mr. O'Connell, and nut from Mr. O'Connell to eon; and in that second letter, to which you have referred, from Mr. Vigors to Mr. O'Connell, Mr. O'Connell enclosed that letter and another for you, de- siring that it should be returned, as containing a voucher for 8001.; this is not that letter?—i see it is not.

Do you mean to state that you returned the letter to which your attention is now called ?—If there was a letter, 1 returned it, I did not see that there was any letter. (The letter was produced.) That letter was in your possession when you attended the Committee yesterday? —Yes.

Is the Committee to understand from you that you have ever returned that letter to Mr. O'Connell ?—No ; to be sure not. This I had in my possession yesterday. When you were asked what impression a paragraph in that letter had merle in your mind, you stated that you paid very little atteutiou to it, and you returned it to Mr.'" Connell?—I mistook that for the other letter. Now, the questiou is repeated to you, and you understand that that question refers not to the letter returned, but to us letter retained in your possession. Can you recon- cile your statement to the Committee, that eou never knew that Mr. O'Connell acted for Mr. Vigors, with your having received and sent a letter in which Mr. O'Con- nell stated that he was bound to Mr. Vigors for the money ?—/ donut know what answer to gire Sir EARDLEY WILMOT—What did you understand by the words being pledged to Mr. Vigors?-1 paid no attention at all to it. I paid no attention to any money mat- ters between Mr. Vigors and Mr. O'Connell. I would answer any question it I un- deratood it. Sir C. 11. Vear.—Did you consider that the second 10001. was to be paid, or was to he made use of towaide the election by Mr. Vigors?—No. Mr Sergeant W1L na —What did you understand was to be the appropriation of that money ?—That he may have owed Mr. Vigors money or that Mr. Vigors may have paid some expenses on his account that he was bound to repay. You understood that Mr. O'Connell was to pay a debt of his to Mr. Vigors out of your 10001. ?—Perhape he paid the money to Mr. Vigors to pay the election ',Ancor Mr. Vigor* may have paid the election bills which Mr. O'Connell was bound to pay. Mr. WARBURTON—II that the interpretation you now put upon the phrase in the letter ; or is it the interpretation which you put at the time of receiving it?—At the time of receiving the letter. Then you did reflect upon that phrase hi the letter. You stated beftra that you had Paid no attention whatever to it ?— 1 paid very little attention to it, Mr. WARD—You have said, that perhaps Mr. O'Conuell owed money to Mr. Vhron. Do you mean to say that you supposed at that time, or suppose at this time, that there were any pecuniary transactions between Mr. O'Connell and Mr. Vigors, uncon- nected with the election, which were to be paid out of the 10001 ?-1 do not mean private transactions, bat as to this election.

You do not mean, by the answer to the question, to imply that there were any pri- vate transactiona between Mr. O'Connell and Mr. Vigors which were to be paid out of your money ?—No. Lord F. EGERTON—Were you at that time under the impression that Mr. V igors was to support the expense of the election in a like manner with yourself?-1 really thought so.

He was asked if he bad not stopped his carriage to speak to Mr. Vigors in Hanover Square, the Sunday after the unseating of Bruen and Kavanagh, and told him that he had "completed the arrangement with Mr. O'Connell; " and he replied " No, so help me God." He was referred to the printed statement, wherein it was said that many appli- cations were made to O'Connell for the second 1000/.; and was asked if he bad made any applications ? he replied—" No."

Who did, to your knowledge?-7 do not know.

Upon what authority is it that you state that may applications were made to Mr. O'Connell tbr the payment of the second 1000L?—The authority of my solicitor ; and I, likewise, 14 as present when we wanted the money, and we could not get it.

What period do you allude to in your last answer ?—From the 4th of August to the 19th of August. Did you ever apply to Mr. O'Connell ?—No. Did you understand from your solicitor that he had applied?—Ac would not apply.

Upon what authority did you make the statement, then, that man) applieations had been made to Mr. O'Connell for the payment of that second 10001.?—Mr. Baker wanted 5001. and we paid him that ; and soon afterwards he said, " 1 must have more mouey," and I paid a second 5001. ; and I said after that. " I am determined nut to give another farthing until he will give me credit for the 10001. Have you any other emu er to give to the question ; which is, who ever stated to you that many applications bud been made to Mr. O'Connell for the payment of the second 10001.2—Mr. Hamilton.

And yet Mr. Hamilton told you that he would not make application ?—He would not. Did he ever name any person who had made application 1—No, I do not recollect the name of the person.

Do you mean to state that Mr. Hamilton represented to you that any applications had been made for payment of the second 10001. ?—Yes, nut to Mr. O'Connell, but to Mr. Baker. to give credit for the money.

Do you know of any application having been to Mr. O'Connell ?—Yes, I think I do. I think Mr. Tyrrell and Mr. Maher. When did you learn that 1—During the time from the 4th of August to the 19th of August.

Who stated it to you ?—I heard it in the conversation.

Who ?-1Ve were with Mr. Tyrrell and Mr. Maher and Mr. Baker. we were together. Will you name the Milk ideal who made such a statement 1—No I cannot. Will you name an individual who was present when such a statement was made ?— No, I cannot. •

He was again asked to account for his ignorance of the fact that Mr. O'Connell was agent for Vigors.

You have been asked with reference to your statement that you did not know that Mr. O'Connell was acting fur Mr. Vigors in respect to the letter ; your attention is now called to another letter. dated Wednesday the lith of Julie : you will find a short para.

graph, stating—" On the 17th, Mr. O'Connell wrote me the following ;" and that fol- lowing is there given—" NI y dear Sir, I send you Vigors's letter to me, just received. You see how secure we are. Return me this letter, as It roaches SOW. fur me." What was your construction of that passage as to Mr. O'Conuell's being accountable to Mr. Vipers for the looney 1—I returned the letter as I said before. I do not recollect what it was; I did not think any thing of it.

Ear indifference to money matters induced you to pay no attention to it 1—Yes ; I said sar in the commencement : and I will say so an hundred times if it is asked me. Are the Committee to understaudlyou that now that you pay attention to this letter, you dial or did not know that Mr. O'Connell was acting on behalf of Mr. Vigors, and so accountable to him for the money ?-1 did not. What is your impression on reading this letter? do you think that this letter imports that he m as acting on behalf of Mr. Vigors 1—That I cannot tell, it is beyond my com- prehension. You perused these letters attentively before you published your statement ?—I Ito e so

However little you might have attended to these letters when you received them, how:do you reconcile your statement when you perused them for publication ? did you prepare them for publication ?—Of course. Was this letter composed by yourself?—Yon may call it a joint composition.

Did you contribute to it the copies of the letters that passed 1—Of course, without those letters the statement could nut have been made out.

With the exception of those letters, is this statement your composition or not 1—Part of it; I hope I am able to write such a (statement; it is a plain, straightforward statement.

Do you mean to state to the Committee that this statement is your composition ?— Part of it.

Have you any objection to state who was the juiut contributor1—Am I obliged to answer that ?

CHAIRMAN—No. I think not.

Mr. Sergeant WILDE—Have you any objection to state who was the joint contri- butor 1- -I have an objection.

Mr. Sergeant Witot suggested that the question ought to be pressed.

Sir F. POLLOCK stated that lie made no objection to the wiestion. Mr. Sergeant WILDE -I wish to know who assisted yoti in the composition of that letter which you published ? —Am I bound to answer? CHAIRMAN—Do you object to answer 1-1 do not see I ought to object to it—Mr.

• • • • • •

Were you also assisted in that by Mr. Hamilton?—Yes. And by no other person ?-111y uo other person. Then this statement was made with your knowlege and with your authority ?— Certainly.

Mr. O'Connell asserts that he acted throughout the hatiiiess on behalf and as the trustee of Mr. Vigors, and that you knew it; this you distinctly and positively deny 1-- Yes.

And you go on to state that you in fact kept it secret from Mr. Vigors what your arrangement had been?—Yes.

So that the terms never had been discussed between you, and that is also a statement with your authority ?—Yes.

After it became evident that Raphael and Vigors would be unseated, Raphael called on O'Connell, (on the 2d August,) whom, he says, he found in very low spirits, and he thought "he saw tears in his eyes." O'Connell told him that the loss of the Carlow election was "the greatest political shock he had ever suffered !" Raphael paid altogether 3232/. 10s. 8d. on the Carlow election and petition account.

Mr. THOMAS HAMILTON, Mr. Raphael's solicitor, a partner in the house of Few, Hamilton, and Few, corroborated Mr. Raphael's testi- mony in a number of particulars. With respect to the remittance of Raphael's money in bills by O'Connell, Mr. Hamilton told Mr. Vigors, that " if Mr. Baker chose to accept these bills as cash, it was perfectly satisfactory to Mr. Raphael." He also gave a number of details which possess little interest respecting the management of the sitting Members' case before the Committee, which he attended on Mr. Raphael's be- half. With reference to the Baronetcy letter, he said that Raphael showed it him with the greatest reluctance, and not without imposing upon him a solemn premise of secrecy as to its contents. Mr. THOMAS LITTLE, a clerk in the banking-house of Wright and Co., proved the receipt of Raphael's two checks of 10001. each, which were placed to MP. O'Connell's credit. By Mr. O'Connell's desire, aeopy of his entire account with Wright and Co. was drawn out, and given to Sir F. Pollock ; who returned it, with the assurance that he had only looked at it so far as to ascertain the time and mode of the payment of the two sums of 1000/.

;Mr. JOHN TYRRELL, a gentleman residing in London, but having friends and relatives in Carlow, flatly contradicted several of Raphael's- assertions with regard to his connexion with that county. Ile stated, that in 1833, he frequently conversed with Raphael on the subject of standing for Carlow, and that he opened a negotiation with his friends there in order to forward Raphael's views. Raphael said he was willing to spend 5000/. or 60001. to get into Parliament—he did not mind spending any sum of money, if he could get in for Carlow. Raphael wished to be introduced to Vigors ; and Tyrrell introduced him at Vigors's house in the early part of 1834.

Will you state the substance of the conversation that occurred between yourself and Mr. Vigors. and Mr. Raphael, upon the first interview ?—Mr. Vigors told Mr. Raphael, that lie would have a great deal to contend with in going to Carlow ; that the Aristo. cracy were very powerful there, and. unfortunately, all of them opposed to the Peop,le; in fact, Mr. Vigors painted a picture so very black to Mr. Raphael, that I did not think Mr. Raphael would have any thing more to do with it. . . . . . . What was the result of the interview ? how did the parties separate:after this conversation ? what dial Mr. Raphael say about the communicatioit 1— r. Raphael seemed very well satis- fied; and said he was getting only too and a half per cent. iu the Fluids, and that lie would like to lay it out in assisting the poor Irish. as he was very fond of the Irish.

Mr. Tyrrell said be soon afterwards visited Carlow ; and on his return to London, had some conversation wills Raphael on the old subject ; and he told him that there was a Liberal Club established in .Carlow for the protection of the electors. At or about the dissolution 113 1834, Raphael appeared resolved to stand for Carlow, and to pay at least 30001. towards the election expenses ; but he was subsequently very undecided ; and chose to stand for Pomfret, where he was defeated.

111r. Tyrrell advised O'Connell, when he heard that Raphael was to be a candidate for Carlow in June 1835, to get the money paid into his hands, for that Raphael had no decision of character, and was not to he depended upon.

Mr. CHARLES PEARSON deposed to several conversations with Raphael about getting into Parliament, as early as December 1832; and said that the Sheriff was in communication with Vigors on the subject in November 1834 ; he saw them together at the Old Bailey. Pearson advised him to apply to O'Connell—" the fountain-bead ; " and wrote to O'Connell, then in Ireland, with Raphael's privity. The following is the reply. he received, and which he read to Raphael the day after lie received it.

" Merrion Square, Dublin, 2d December 1934.

" My dear Sir—I agree with you entirely, in thinking that it would he extremely desirable to have Mr. Raphael in Parliament. I had already been apprized that lie intimated recently a desire to be so; and indeed I believe it the more readily, because he some two or three years ago told me as much. Fortunately, as I hope, there is now quite a suitable opportunity : Carlow County is likely to be deserted by its present Members, and we are threatened by two powerful Conservatives. You will he glad to hear that, even before I got your letter, I wrote to Mr. Vigors, suggesting Mr. Raphael as a likely person to coalesce with young Ponsooby, Lord Duticantion's son, and by that means to secure the return of both ; for both must embark, if at all, on the same bottom. My present impression is. that with Ponsonby's popularity, and our recom- mendation of Mr. Raphael. success is to the last degree probable. " I wish, you would see Mr. .Vigors on this subject : lie lives near the Botanic Car. dens ; you will find his address in the Directory. 1 will write again by this post to Carlow, and get an exact return of the constituency divided into good, bad, and doubtful ; and if I find that the good exceed the other two, then we will proceed. But money is necessary. About 30001.-1 say 30001. at the utmost—would coverall expenses. I will not have Mr. Raphael stand unless 1 can insane two things for him,—first, that the expenses shall not exceed that sum ; and secondly, that he will certainly be returned. You may, of course, rely on it, that there shall be no speculation. At present I believe that the return can be made certain, but I will not pledge myself without further information. Let me know how Mr. Raphael relishes my proposal to join Mr. Pon- sonby, who has considerable local interest, and to go as far as 30001. to carry the elec- tion. The principal expense will be to indemnify tenants who vote against their landlords' wishes. They may want from one year to half a year's rent. The greater part will only be a loan, and will be repaid. It will not alias be required till alter the election. and st ill be unconnected with any previous stipulation. The truants who vote for us thus will expect that the gentlenieu who compose the local Committee. should prevent their landlords from raining them by sadden demands at periods when the Irish farmer has nothing to sell. " But the entire of these advances, and all other expenses, not to exceed 30001. I have mentioned in reply to your answer to this, I will give you precise and positive terms, and even then you shall be at liberty to retract. " Believe me to Le, nay dear Sir, very faithfully yours. " Charles Pearson, Esq. DANIEL O'CONNELL:'

He received a second letter from Mr. O'Connell; and believes that he gave it to Raphael, who wished to have it as an autograph; Pearson having kept the first for his daughter, as an autograph expressive of the mind of the writer. When he read the first letter to Raphael, the latter said he was thinking of Pomfret. Pearson told him, that in politics, as in love, he ihoild get rid of one mistress before he took another; and that if he tried both for Carlow and Pomfret, he would get neither. As soon as be found that Raphael was undecided, he wrote a letter to O'Connell, which broke off the negotiation. On his cross-examination, Mr. Pearson said that he was not a collector of autographs, but that if he were to receive an invitation to dinner front Mr. Raphael, he should keep it as extraordinary. He bad always been on good terms with Raphael ; who, however, as he had heard from Mr. Parkes, had spoked disparagingly of him to the Committee, and now be should have a difference with him.

Mr. NICHOLAS AYLWARD VIGORS was examined at great length. He directly contradicted almost every important assertion of Raphael. He confirmed the testimony of previous witnesses as to Raphael's desire to become Member for Carlow in 1834. He negotiated with him ex- pressly and distinctly as Chairman of the Carlow-Liberal Club : he represented to him the necessity of having funds to protect persecuted tenants ; and it was understood that Raphael should become a candidate for Carlow on the first vacancy. Mr. Vigors gave the same account as Mr. Pearson and Mr. Tyrrell, of Raphael's indecision at the last general election. When the petition against Bruen and Kavanagh was pending, in May 1835, he had frequent conversations with Raphael as to the propriety of his paying part of the expenses of unseating them, as he was to be one of the Liberal candidates in case of success. This Raphael declined doing, but offered to go to any expense to secure his seat if the petition was successful. Raphael knew that Vigors was acting as Chairman of the Carlow Club, and had, in that capacity, en- gaged Mr. Baker as an agent for the petition against Bruen and Kavanagh. At the Zoological meeting, when the news of the sitting Members being turned out was received, be was speaking to Raphael--

We drew aside; I told him that new was en opportunity, now there was a certainty of the seat being

opeoed, anti now was the opportunity fur him to follow up those wishes which he had expressed previously to me ; now was the time to enter into the negotiatiun on which we bad previously spoken. I told hint at the same time, that there was an absolute necessity for my immediately leaving town to to over to Carlow to are after the county previous to the election, and that it was necessary that he should decide almost immediately—thin no time was to be lost. lie seemed, as usual, undecided ; lent I insisted Nein there being some immediate answer. I told him the necessity of an answer, and that if we could not decide with him, we must decide else. where. I then mentioned, in general, the terms that we should consider necessary fur

him to give.

Just repeat what you said?—Iii consequence of his being anxious fur a definite sum being mentioned, I mentioned the stun of 2000/. Raphael wished to consult a friend, and named O'Connell. Vigors consented, and authorized O'Connell to act for him, still in the capa- city of Chairman of the Carlow Club—

I

mentioned the conversation that I had had with Mr. Raphael, and I told him that I wished that he WORM follow it up ; and 1 mentioned the particular terms on which I authorized him to conclude the arrangement with Mr. Raphael. Mill you be se good as to state what the terms were ?—The terms were those whidi I have proposed to Mr. Raphael; 1000/. to be paid immediately, and 10001. to be paid on his return.

And to what purposes were those sums to be applied ?—The application of those stone was to election expenses in general, and the expenses arising out of the election. The application of the fleet 1000!. was. as I expressed myself to Mr. Raphael, to he to the payment of part of the expenses then ineuned for the !melt ion that had just been decided at the moment, and the other part towards the ensuing election expenses, the expenses arising out of the contest : the second 1000!. I generally stated was to he given to the fund, which I had always mentioned to him it was necessary for a candi- date to subset ibe to, for the purpose of protecting the voters and registering expenses,

and the incidental expenses attending the election in the county. • • • When Mr. O'Connell was referred to, was there any thing said or understood, as far as you card collect from what passed, that Mr. O'Connell was to have any thing to do with the distribution of the money ?—Certainlv not. To whom was Mr. O'Connell to account for tint money ?— lie was hi afraid fo me OR I hay of the Liberal Committee. 111r. O'Connell was but the banker in whose hands it EMS deposited, and to tehom tee were to apply as tee wanted the money.

He saw Mr. Raphael on Sunday morning, in his carriage, in Berke- ley Square. Raphael stopped the carriage, and told him that the arrange- ment was completed with O'Connell. Upon this Vigors left town for Ireland. The capacity in which O'Connell considered himself to be acting for Vigors, will appear by the following extract from a letter written by O'Connell from London to Vigors in Carlow- ., Illy dear Vigors-1 send to Fitzpatrick this day a draught for 5001.. to be re- mitted to you. Let me hear from you so semi as you receive this. I will make you a further remittance to-morrow. The letter 1 got from Fitzpatrick this day is very dis- couraging. He tells me that success is exceedingly doubtful; at least that is the re- sult of his communication to me. I need not say how impatiently I will await your reply. I am guarantee to .you pr the terms you required from Raphael, and guarantee to him pr your part vg` the contract."

The further details of Mr. Vigors's evidence proved the payment by Mr. O'Connell of the whole of the 20001. received from Raphael to himself; that he disbursed this money partly in discharge of election expenses in Carlow, and partly to Mr. Baker in London for carrying on the defence against the petition; that although part of the money was paid in bills, they were all discounted without difficulty, Mr. O'Connell paying the interest ; that Mr. O'Connell had nothing what- ever to do in respect to the disbursements, or the management of the defence against the petition ; that Raphael acquiesced in the justice of giving up the resistance to the petition as soon as his second 10001. was gone ; and that he continued it for his own gratification, in the hope that Parliament would be dissolved before a decision could be given, and that he might enjoy the dignity of M. P. during the recess. .Finally, Mr. Vigors positively stated, that every farthing of the money had been legally expended ; and he produced accounts and vouchers in confirmation of this statement.

Mr. E. M. FITZGERALD, Secretary to the Carlow Liberal Club, gave testimony which corresponded entirely with that of Mr. Vigors; and explained the nature of the bill-transactions, and the over-payment of a sum by O'Connell to Vigors. He also produced the following letter from Mr. O'Connell to himself; which proves, that in the elec- tion o( January 1835, O'Connell was prepared, if necessary, to ad- vance money to secure the election of his son Maurice for Carlow.

" (Confidential.) " Derrynane Abbey, 4th January 1835.

" My dear Fitzgerald—I wish I could get to Carlow. I am most anxious to be in Carlow. Will vou see his Lordship the Bishop, and submit to him my plan ? If you cannot get anybody else, I will lodge 5001. or, if necessary, 10001. for my eldest son Maurice, and set him up for the county. Maurice can and will be elected for Tnilee ; but he could afterwards elect to sit for Carlow County. and leave Tralee for a second choice. I say this only on the understanding that nobody else can be got ; in that case I will make the sacrifice I mention to prevent a Tory getting in for the county. You will, however, recollect that I do this merely to prevent a Tory from being your Member, and for no other purpose; though, to be perfectly candid, I would rather have Maurice represent a county than a borough ; but beyond that preference there is no- thing else. 1 am, however, ready to make a personal sacrifice of from 5001. to 10001. for that purpose. 1 go to Killarney on Tuesday the 6th ; on Wednesday the 7th, to Cork. If you have occasion to write to me, direct to me at Cork, care of Thomas Fitzgerald, Esq. merchant. Mallow Lane, Cork. Put on it. 'To he furs srded at once.' Write also to Waterford, by the same post, to the care of the Reverend John Sheehan, parish priest, Waterford. I with myself write to you again from Cork or Youghsl, and tell you the exact day on which I will be in Carlow.

" Believe me to be yours, very sincerely,

" Edward M. Fitzgerald, Esq. Carlow." " DANIEL O'CONNELL.

Mr. HARRISON, the Parliamentary counsel, stater' he had considered it hopeless to carry on the opposition to the petition after the. third day, and that he told the parties it was injurious to go on. 31r. Raphael was quite aware of his opinion. He himself withdrew from the conduct of the defence before his clients, the sitting Mem- bers, gave up. Mr. THOMAS BAKER, the Parliamentary agent, gave important evidence in contradiction of Raphael's. I believe you acted as Parliamentary agent in the petition against Mr. Raphael and Mr. Vigors in the last session ?— I did.

By whom were you originally employed in that matter?—If the Committee will allow me I will state the circumstances, and I will leave them to judge.

Who applied to you first to resist that petition ?—Mr. Vigors was the first that com- municated with me ; but before any matter was done in the defence, Mr. Raphael was the person that was first with me. Yoe were first applied to by Mr. Vigors?—Mr. Vigors rather communicated with me, and asked my advice upon matters; but as to any matter of defence of the petition, the first person was Mr. Raphael. Will you give the earliest date of your communication with Mr. Raphael ?—The 17th of July, I think it was. It was some days before the ballet ?—Several.

Had you had many communications with Mr. Raphael between the 17th and the ballot ?—Several.

You remember the ballot, of course?—yes. By Ttaphael's desire, after Vigors had withdrawn from the opposi. lion; he wade out a statement of the probable expense of persevering to the end of the session' it would, he calculated, have been about W.

dab 114 Wad have Got altogether MK lie was desired by Raphael to dismiss, first Air. Harrison, Wh011i to got rid of delicately'; and afterwards Mr. Hill, with whose want of punctuality Raphael was dissatisfied— At a very early period, Mr. Repine' was particularly displeased at what he con• evend to 1w the Cant of attendance of his counsel. Mr. Harrison; and I received the

most positive and direct instructiens from Mr. Raphael, and from Mr. Hamilton, that

Mr. Harrison should be discontinued. I confess that it was in consequence of that that Mr. Harrison was discontinued ; but I had a tlelicacy in dealing with a man of his rank in the profession, and 1 did it in such a manuer tint he does not know, up to this moment, that that decision took place by the express orders of Mr. Raphael. I said.' It was a very unpletteaut business dealing with Mr. Raphael, for lie seemed to be

so dissati.thel withahuhwtevery thing, and with the want of attendanc.e ; ' and Mr. Ilarrieon said. • 1 wilt you would excuse nie ; and 1 seized gladly the opportu- nity and said ' Yes; ' but Mr. Harrison, 1 believe, to this day, is not aware that Mr. Raphael was mu.t positive in his directions to discontinue him.

And did %oil then, by the directions of Mt. Hamilton, or NIr. Raphael, seek other contusel?—i.ee, but not in this actual place of Mr. Ilarrieon, Mr. 1 lill was one of the counsel employed ; and Nit.. Raphael, after some time, gut tlik:atiStleil %Ail Mr. Hill, and I believe Mr. Ilan:11ton did participle in that. and I received positive orders

that 11 r. Hill should he dieroutinued ; ands I had not the same feeling to Mr. Hill, nut letting the Meiotic of being so intimate with hint. and. as of course 1 obeyed very implh Illy the orders that 1 had received. he e as discontiimetl. When Mr. Raphael declined to select the counsel himself, we applied to Nil.. Phillips, and he would not have it ; and we went to Mr. Theesiger, and Inc would not have any thine to say to ; awl we went to Mr. Sergeant Nlerewether. and lie was going nut of town ; and finally we %%cut to Mr. Potluck. Mr. Raphael went with me, and we retained him.

He had never any communication with Mr. O'Connell, and indeed would not have been employed by him, on account of differences which had occurred between them : he was therefore quite surprised that Raphael, in one of his letters, should have used the expression in reference to him.---" the agent employed by Mr. O'Connell.

II appears to me tine most extraordinary thing in the world how that could have been %linen by Mr. Raphael, or have been sanctioned by Mr. Hamilton ; because these two gentlemen knew, as well as I that I tress net employed by Air. O'Connell ; thev had tine earliest intelligence of it from me. 1 find, in a letter sieutel by air. O'Con- nell, a reference to myself, • send to Mr. Baker, the particulars he wants of your quali- Heat lee and there is then a note, "rile agent employed by Mr. O'Connell.' Now 51r. Itaphaers qualification having been questioned ill the reti;iuu,thaConmittee are aware that the particulars of quelification must be delivered within fourteen days after the petition is preeented ; and I wrote. therefore, several letters to Mr. Viipirs, pointing out tie necessity of Mr. Raphael's delivering in the particulars of his qualitication : and I am sat h•lied that it was in couseeptence of the letter which 1 sent to Mt. Viors, when Mr. Vigors eommutnicatt•t1 to Mr. Raphael the letter that he Intl received from me, requeet het him to come to me. that the particulars of his tetalification were prepared ; that he did call upon me, not in consequent.° of Mr. O'Connell directing him to do so, but in consequienco of letter. that I had written to Mr. Vigns, which were put into Mr. Raphael's hands"

Mr. Baker also said, that months before Raphael's statement was prepared, both he and Hamilton were apprized by him, that he had not and would not have any concern with .Mr. O'Connell in relation to the Carlow affair. He had refused to send in his account to Raphael ; who complained of the delay ; but the reason was, that he had ascertained that it was to be made use of for other purposes than paying it, by Raphael and Hamilton. He had received his money in a way satis- factory to himself, through Mr. Vigors.

The Reverend JAMES MAILER, of Carlow, testified to the correct- ness of the accounts of disbursements, as far as lie was concerned.

After the close of Mr. Maker's testimony, Mr. O'CONNELL him- self was called.

Mr. Sergeant WILDE stated, that in his Widen be hail so abundantly cleared the character of Mr. O'Connell by other teetimony, that he did not wish to examine Mr. O'Connell; but that an opportunity was afforded to Sir F. Pollock acid to the Com- mittee of examining him. Sir F. Por.neca stated that he had no question to put.

Mr. 0.CONNELL-1 am exceedingly desirous that any question that may be sup- posed to throw light upon this transaction should be asked. I would wish to add 'empty this, that the ternis of my guarantee to Mr. Raphael in my opinion go to an extent which have ten been complied with. A difference having arisen between me and him as to the construction of those terms, and he having paid money subse- quently, I always have been, and always shall be, ready to leave that questiou to any one gentleman of integrity whom lie may appoint. If that gentleman puts the con• struction that Mr. Raphael puts upon the guarantee, whatever becomes of it. without now charging Mr. Vigors, I will most readily pay it out of my own pocket if he differs from me.

Mr. Sergeant WILDI stated, that Mr. John O'Connell was in attendance if Sir P. Pollock or the Committee wished to examine him.

Sir F. POLLOCK stated. that be bad no question to put to Mr. John O'Connell. The CHAIRMAN stated, that the Committee had no question to put.

Mr. Sergeant Wilde said, that as far as he was concerned, he felt that the duty imposed upon him had ceased. If be were called upon to do any thing further, he should say that he was justified in calling upon the Committee to declare that Mr. O'Connell was perfectly acquitted of all the imputations cast upon him. If it were considered necessary to proceed further, he should then apply himself to the circumstances under which Mr. O'Connell became acquainted with Mr. Raphael; next, what was the understanding between Mr. O'Connell and Mr. Raphael in respect to the terms upon which the latter was to stand for the county of Carlow ; and, lastly, how the money obtained in conse- quence of this understanding had been disposed of. But, until he knew what course his honourable and learned friend meant to pursue, he should think he would be employing the time of the Committee use- lessly if he proceeded further at the present moment. Sir Frederick Pollock declined going beyond his directions from the House; which were merely to examine witnesses. Mr. Hamilton here presented himself to the Committee for the pur- pose of making an explanation in reference to some of the evidence given in the course of this inquiry.

Mr. Warburton, however, objected ; and said that other witnesses had been anxious to explain incidental matters, but the Committee had overruled their doing so. He therefore did not see upon what principle Mr. Hamilton should be allowed to pursue a course which was objected to in respect to other witnesses. Mr. Hamilton said that be wished to explain one point, in reference to which Mr. Baker had been examined, but touching which he had not been cross-examined by Mr. Sergeant Wilde.

Mr. Sergeant Wilde said, that a gentleman who had published letters upon this subject, and who, in fact, stimulated this inquiry, ought to be the last person in the world to seek for indulgence at the hands of the Committee.

Mr. O'Connell could not allow the Committee to separate without expressing most respectfully his thanks to them for the patience, dili- gence, and impartiality, which they had evinced during the whole of the proceedings.

Here the examination of evidence, which had been continued day by day from the 29th of February to the 8th of March, was closed ; and the Committee adjourned to Friday the 11th, when they agreed to their Report.