12 MARCH 1842, Page 2

Debatts an Vrottebinas in Varliament.

SUPPLY: ARMY AND NAVY ESTIMATES.

On the motion that the House should resolve itself into a Committee of Supply, on Monday, Mr. WOOD put some questions respecting the reappointment of the Select Committee on Banks of Issue. Sir ROBERT PEEL stated in reply, that Committees on Banking had sat for five sessions : the Committee on Joint Stock Banks had separated without making a report, and eight of the most active members of that Com- mittee were no longer in the House. Instead of reappointing a Com- mittee, therefore, to inquire into a subject which seemed to be exhausted or to be inexhaustible, or to report, he thought that the subject should be dealt with by the Executive; though he could not at present say what would be done. The Government would not fail to entertain the question as soon as it was possible to give it due deliberation.

Mr. FERRAND next availed himself of his privilege to enlarge upon the accusations which he had brought against the manufactures, in a speech of considerable length.

Mr. VILLIERS read the names of thirty manufacturers who desired that they might be added to the declaration which he read on Friday night ; and he remarked that the burden lay with Mr. Ferrand, who preferred the charges, to substantiate them by moving for inquiry.

Mr. JOHN FIELDER said that there was a great deal of truth in Mr. Ferrand's remarks, but very oppressive conduct was also chargeable upon the cultivators of the soil ; in proof of which, he read a paragraph from the Wiltshire Independent, telling how Jeffrey Dowse, a labouring man, was fined 108., and committed for fourteen days in default of pay- ment, for damaging a maiden oak-tree. Mr. LAMBTON hoped Mr. Ferrand would move for a Committee. Mr. FERRAND undertook to do so before Easter, unless some other Member should move for a Com- mittee before Friday next.

Mr. O'CoNNELL called attention to the acquittal, at the last Down Assizes, of a person who had. been concerned in the murder of one M'Ardle, at Ballyroney in Downshire, during a quarrel between Orangemen and Catholics, which M'Ardle had endeavoured to appease. The acquittal had been followed by another murder in Ballyroney. Mr. O'Connell moved for a return of the persons who had registered arms in Down County.

Lord ELIOT believed that the original provocation lay with some Catholics, who cried "To hell with King William ! " but he was at a loss to conceive why the prisoner had been acquitted. At all events, the blame did not lie with Government, for the prosecution had been zealously conducted : his surmise was that the Jury had taken up some erroneous view as to the nature of the evidence brought forward.

The SPEAKER pointing out an irregularity in the time of Mr. O'Connell's motion, it was agreed that it should be renewed after the House resumed. [It was renewed next day, and then agreed to.]

The House having resolved itself into Committee, Sir HENRY HA RDINGE brought forward the Army Estimates. There did not exist, he said, any material difference from the Estimates of last year. The forces would consist of 108,086 rank and file, 5,808 officers, and 8,674 non-commissioned officers ; total, 122,564. The increase, 1,447 man, was accounted for by the raising of the Royal Canadian Regiment and the St. Helena Corps, and the augmentation of the Third West India Regiment. The last arrangement would be a relief to officers in the three West Indian Corps, who after spending eighteen months on the West coast of Africa would be allowed a year's leave of absence on their return to the West Indies. New arrangements would be made in Jamaica, by which Black troops would be posted on the coast, and European troops in healthier stations. Sir Henry explained an arrangement for lessening the pressure on the troops abroad. There are fifty battalions of Infantry abroad, in addition to twenty-eight in New South Wales, India, and China ; leaving only twenty-five at home. Six depot regiments would be augmented by 100 men each, and sent to healthy stations to be practised in garrison-duty abroad ; and the number of battalions at -home would be increased to 31. Sir Henry moved that 95,000 men be granted, exclusively of the troops employed in the East Indies.

A long conversation, of more than the usually desultory kind, en- sued; technical suggestions being made by professional and quondam- official Members.

Mr. Wrmassi Wnsseass then raised some economical objections. He could not consent to the increase, unless the additional troops were to be employed in India and China. With an expenditure which last year exceeded the revenue by nearly 2,500,0001., he saw nothing in the present circumstances of the country to warrant the increase in the Army ; and he moved that the number of men be diminished from 95,000 to 84,000. He objected to the number of General Officers, 452— more than four for every regiment of the Line ; to the pension-list of 1,209 widows ; to the early period at which officers are allowed to re- tire on half-pay ; and to the proposed vote of 82,4581. for Yeomanry Cavalry—a most objectionable force for quelling internal disturbance, and there is now no fear of invasion.

Sir HOWARD DOUGLAS, on the other hand, declared that the Army ought to have been increased sooner—at the time of the Canadian rebellion ; when two regiments were removed from the Ionian Islandls, to the injury of the public service ; and he pointed to the danger arising from the small number of troops in India.

After some further conversation, Sir HENRY HeanisoE reminded Mr. Williams that a large British force was already in India and China ; and that a reduction, amounting to 6,000 out of 17,426, had been made in the half-pay list. Ultimately the vote was agreed to.

It having been proposed that the sum of 3,581,575/. be voted for the Land Forces at home and abroad exclusive of India, Mr. Wu.- maws moved as an amendment, that the vote should be reduced by 63,9181., being the difference between the sums paid to an equal number of soldiers of the Line and of the Guards. The original vote was car- ried, by 144 to 12. Mr. WILLIAMS again divided the House on the vote for the Volunteer Corps ; but it was carried, by 133 to 16. The re- mainder of the votes in the Army. Estimates and several Naval votes were agreed to. When one of the Naval votes was proposed, Mr. CUBISM Seek new sion to revive the discussion on the case of Mr. Elton ; having, he said, travelled sixty miles that day in order to do so. He retraced the his- tory of the affair ; adding, that Captain Williams endeavoured to exact from Mr. Elton not only an apology for his insulting letter, but also for the original note requesting the conveyance of his friend on shore. There were irregularities at the Court-martial : two officers who sat as judges gave evidence as witnesses, one for the prosecution the other for the defence. Mr. Curteis gave a somewhat different version of the account of Mr. Elton's behaviour on board the Hastings : he was not allowed to converse with any one ; he was obliged to walk on the star- board side, among the men ; and when Captain Lawrence one day saw him conversing with a mate, he rushed from the cabin, and in a loud and angry tone blamed the mate for speaking to a man who was a dis- grace to his service ; and turning round to Mr. Elton he said," How dare you, a person who is disgraced, speak to one of my officers ? " Goaded to desperation, Mr. Elton unfortunately said, that whoever said he had disgraced himself was a liar.

Captain F. H. BERKELEY gave a sketch of the naval life of Mr. Elton, who had served under him ; and averred that complaints had been made to him that the young man was habitually insubordinate—so mach so, that Captain Berkeley, but for the exercise of great leniency, might have dismissed him from the service. He explained, that according to naval etiquette, Mr. Elton's request to Captain Williams was one of the greatest pieces of impertinence that could be committed; and that the use of the boat might seriously have interfered with the proceedings of the ship's crew. If Mr. Elton had asked him for his boat, he should have sent for him on the quarter-deck and reprimanded him for his im- pertinence. Knowing that Mr. Elton was such a dangerous character in the Navy, Captain Williams was quite right in refusing to him that which he might have granted to an officer of different character.

Captain Rocs made some remarks on the subject ; explaining in passing, that the quarter-deck, where Mr. Elton was seen conversing with the mate, was not the place for familiar conversation. When sent on board the Hastings, Mr. Elton, instead of appearing in uniform, be- tween two sentries, appeared in plain clothes, like a private gentleman ; a proof in his (Captain Rous's) mind that the discipline of the Navy was going to the dogs. In France or America, he would have been treated as a felon for challenging his superior officer ; and in this country a common man would have been hanged for doing the things which he had done_ The matter then dropped.

Mr. SYDNEY HERBERT observed, that perhaps it might serve to allay the alarms which were sometimes expressed on these subjects, if he mentioned, that the effective force of the French navy was at present less by about 5,000 men than it was in 1835. With respect to the comparative facility of obtaining hands, he believed that America found very great difficulty in filling her ships of war ; while, on the contrary, since September we had manned fifty-four ships, small and large, without difficulty. Within the last fortnight a ship of the line had been commissioned for China, the complement of which had been filled within sixteen or eighteen days.

The remainder of the votes proposed were agreed to; and the Com- mittee, after repeated adjournraets, stands for Monday next.

CONSOLIDATION OF DIPLOMATIC AND CONSULAR ESTABLISHMENTS.

Mr. DISRAELI made a proposal, on Tuesday, for the amalgamating the Consular establishment with the Diplomatic corps of the country. At present they are distinct, the division having arisen from an assumed difference between the political and commercial interests of the nation ; an arbitrary and fanciful distinction, which in practice induces perpetual confusion, and in many cases one set of duties is necessarily blended with the other. Mr. Disraeli reviewed the condition of our Consular establishment in various parts of the world— In Turkey, where the commercial duties are simple, as the natural result of direct taxation, we maintain three Consuls-General, twelve Consuls, and fifteen Vice-Consuls. Their offices are indeed no sinecure, as the volume of corre- spondence laid on the table by Lord Palmerston attested ; but did the commu- nications refer solely to commercial topics ? They expressed opinions upon treaties referred to the operations of armies and fleets, and speculated on war. The expedition to Syria originated with Mr. Wood, a gentleman who, though not a British subject, was the British Consul at Beyront. Passing to the other side of the Atlantic, in the new world which Mr. Canning called into existence in Spanish America, we find Consuls making their office a sinecure and en- gaging in traffic ; while the diplomatic business being very simple, Ministers Plenipotentiary and Secretaries of Legation are occupied with the commercial business proper to Consuls. When, in 1830, Lord Palmerston was desirous to subscribe his quota towards the general reductions, he laid his finger on this double service, and made very judicious arrangements for its alteration : in Mexico he abolished the offices of Consul-General and Vice-Consul, leaving a Minister-Plenipotentiary, Secretary of Legation, and Consul. In the inland Colombian town of Bogoth he abolished a Consul-Generalship, leaving a Mi- nister-Pleuipotentiary, Secretary of Legation, and Vice-Consul. If the fore- going cases were to be deemed out of the ordinary course in one of the best- ordered communities of Europe, the Rause Towns, we had a gentleman who was at once Consul-General and the accredited Diplomatic Minister. Again, in Algiers and the other Turkish Regencies, there are Consuls-General who are likewise Charges d'Affaires. Mr. Bidwell vindicated the necessity of maintain- ing the Consular offices of Bucharest, bfilan,and Warsaw, as political ap- pointments; whereas, to Cracow, where the people had a promise from Lord Palmerston that a Consul should be appointed on political grounds, none had been sent.

Mr. Disraeli then considered the effect of this system in a political point of view ; deriving his first illustration from Egypt— One Consul-General was appointed because he was travelling-tutor to a no- bleman. The next was a member of the old Levant Company, who had hos- pitably entertained a Member of that House while on his travels. In 1831, the ruler of Egypt was negotiating for independence, and he collected an immense army to attack Syria ; but no representation was made on the part of Great Britain. Had it been, Mr. Disraeli was convinced that the invasion never would have taken place. Even if the Consul had communicated with the Se- cretary of State, Lord Palmerston had just come into power, and was distracted by revolution at home, riots in Paris, the separation of the Netherlands, and the blockade of Holland ; and be might not have condescended to notice a mere Levantine Consul's letters.

Prosecuting the proof that Consulships are bestowed on persons with- out regard to their fitness, from mere party interest, Mr. Disraeli men- tioned a notable instance—

In l832,. the Consul-Generalship at Bogota was abolished: in 1841, it was

necessary to provide for those who had pressing claims on the Government, and the Consul-Generalship at Bogota was revived, and a new Consul (Mr. Robert Steuart) was appointed, who was also to be Chargé d'Affaires at a

guinea a day; a salary scarcely inferior to that of the Minister Plenipotentiary. Another political partisan, Mr. Rainsforth, was also sent out as Vice-Consul.

He begged the House to look to the consequences of this ludicrous philan-

thropy of the noble Viscount. The House was perhaps aware that the great Spanish Regency of Granada had separated into the three republics of New

Granada, Venezuela, and Ecuador, the citizens of which were divided into two

parties, so equally balanced that neither was strong enough to put down the other, and which therefore resolved to submit their differences to the arbitration of the British Minister. Mr. Steuart was therefore called in to settle their disputes ; and here was an instance of a Consul suddenly required to arbitrate on the highest diplomatic questions. The Consul

then was informed that the deputies of the two parties were anxious

to communicate with him. They were introduced and stated their case ; but the Consul, not speaking a single word of Spanish, was unable to

understand what they had to say. The Deputies finding that the Consul could not, naturally thought that the Vice-Consul could, and therefore ad- dressed themselves to Mr. Rainsforth ; but found themselves equally at a loss, as be could speak no more than his principal. What was the result ? The Consul-General of Bogota, at which place he had never arrived, was obliged to engage an interpreter. The character of the Dragoman tribe was much the same in all countries; but, bad as they might be in Turkey, they were in- finitely worse in the South American States; for there any man who hap- pened to speak English, however unprincipled a person he might be, was im-

mediately engaged, and would hold completely in -his hand the interests of the two nations. He had the highest authority for saying that the Dragoman of this Consul-General was a person who ought not to be intrusted with political duties. This was the consequence of appointing a Consul-General and Vice- Consul who had no single qualification for their office.

The neighbouring state of Venezuela exhibited proceedings no less extraordinary— In 1839, the Consul-General at Caraccas was living at St. Petersburg, in- tending never to return ; and the Consul of Puerto Cabello, in the same state,

was dying at Liverpool. In 1841, a Consul was appointed at Puerto Cabello; and who was he ?—Mr. Florence O'Leary, a naturalized subject of Venezuela and a General in the service of that state. Now we have a boundary-question

with Venezuela ; for that country claims a tract of land on the Orinoco which we claim for the British colony of Guiana ; and hence it is doubly necessary that this country should be properly represented.

After a passing censure on the intrigues of Colonel Hodges, the Consul-General in Servia, which had procured his expulsion, and the filling up of the post by Mr. De Fonblanque, whom Lord Palmerston had recalled years before, Mr. Disraeli adverted to a duty of the Con- suls to report on statistics of the countries in which they are placed. Reports have been laid on the table on Egypt, Syria, and Candia ; but they did not emanate from the Consular establishments : Dr. Bowring was sent on a special mission to make reports. In Naples, where there is an Envoy at a salary of 2,400/. a year, and a Secretary of Legation at 2,0001., Mr. Macgregor was sent as Special Commissioner to manage a commercial treaty ; and he entered largely into political proceedings to counteract intrigue and corruption. Mr. Disraeli culled further ex- amples of Consular inefficiency from France, Belgium, Switzerland, Austria, and Germany. As an act of impartial censure, he alluded to Mr. Meek's six weeks' scrambling expedition, by Sir Robert Peel's di- rection, to collect information on the Corn-laws, which might have been procured from public archives. He did not fail to mention Cap- tain Ellioes appointment as Consul in Texas ; but he ascribed much of the evil which had befallen him in China to the peculiar character with which Government had chosen to invest him. He pointed to the very limited power possessed by Consuls, which prevents their vindicating their authority ; and argued that the office is no longer necessary now that merchants have regular consignees in foreign ports. Mr. Disraeli concluded by moving,

"That it appears to this House that great inconvenience and injury to the public welfare have arisen from the civil affairs of her Majesty in foreign countries being carried on by two distinct services; and that, with a view of advancing those commercial interests which at this moment so much occupy our consideration, it is expedient that measures should be forthwith taken to blend the Consular with the Diplomatic body."

Lord CLAUDE HAKU.TON seconded the resolution, in a speech which generalized somewhat the arguments of Mr. Disraeli. He complained that the Consular system afforded no scope as a profession for progres- sive advancement ; and he regretted the absence of such a code of laws as regulates the Consular system of France.

Dr. Bowallgt pointed to the want of proper education for the profes- sion. Mere party considerations lead to the appointment of men who are utterly unfit, and the consequence is that Consuls are always com- mitting illegal acts.

Sir ROBERT PEEL could not concur without reserve in the opinion that Consular and Diplomatic functions should be blended. A bill

brought in by Mr. Huskisson and Mr. Canning to regulate the Consular service, proved that their opinion was against such a union ; and all change was deprecated by a Select Committee on the subject, which comprised Lord Palmerston, Lord Lowther, Sir James Graham, Lord Sandon, Sir Hussey Vivian, Mr. Poulett Thomson, Mr. Hutt, Mr. Warburton, Mr. Crawford, Mr. Stuart M‘Kenzie, Dr. Bowing, Mr.

Cutlar Fergusson, and Sir Stratford Canning. There may be men who are qualified either for Diplomatic or Consular duties, but not for both. There are Consuls at thirteen or fourteen trading-ports in France ; but agents for diplomatic purposes could not be wanted in all those places.

At the same time, he was not prepared to contend for the opposite prin- ciple; and where it was possible to combine the two kinds of office, it should be done ; but that ought to be left to the discretion of Govern-

ment. He did not deny that in consequence of there being no express rule, there was a tendency to appoint persons who are disqualified for other offices ; and he made this public advertisement on the subject— That he would interfere on political grounds with no Consular appointment whatever ; and moreover, he there publicly declared, that there was too Feat a disposition on the part of those who were disqualified for public situations to expect Consular appointments, and that he thought the qualifications of all applicants for such offices ought to be inquired into and scrutinized, and that no appointment ought to be made unless it could be vindicated on the ground of the commercial knowledge and ability of the parties; and he hoped this an- nouncement would be taken as his answer to all the applications he had hitherto received and had not answered ; and if it should operate as a preventive against the repetition of similar applications, he should consider himself most amply compensated for his trouble with these matters.

However, if Mr. Disraeli pressed his motion, he mast meet it by a negative.

Lord PALMERSTON insisted that Mr. Disraelrs speech was incon- sistent with his motion ; for if he made one thing more prominent than another, it was that the Consuls performed their duties very well ; but that they were too ambitious, hiving insisted upon being active Diplo- matists—though not to the satisfaction of Mr. Disraeli. In fact, the motion was merely an excuse for attacking the appointments which he had made. Mr. Disraeli ought to have made himself acquainted with the fact that the functions of the two bodies are totally distinct and dissimilar. The Consul's duties are commercial : he has to attend to the clearing of vessels, to act as umpire in disputes between British subjects in the port where he is stationed, to assist British subjects in preferring complaints against local authorities, and to aia those who wish to return to their native lead. The Diplomatist is put in imme- diate communication with the Government of the country, and he can- not act without his exequatur ; questions of pacific relations, beyond the province of the Consul, come under his notice. Would France permit twenty Charges d'Affaires and twenty Diplomatic agents to be scattered about the country ? The qualities of mind required by the two offices were essentially distinct. In some remote provinces indeed, situated at a distance from the Minister charged with diplomatic func- tions, the Consul might necessarily assume some ditties of a political character. Lord Palmerston complained that Mr. Disraeli had mis- stated facts. When Colombia was split into the three states of New Granada, Ecuador, and Venezuela, the same course had been pursued as in the case of Chili and Peru, and Consuls-General had been ap- pointed for each. With reference to the Consul-Generalship at Bogota, Consuls were to be chosen for their ability and business- like habits : the language of a country was easily to be acquired. Lord Palmerston denied that Colonel Hodges had fomented dissensions in Servia : he had been appointed to the Consul-Generalship at Hamburg entirely for his good conduct in Servia and Egy pt ; and there, by the by, , the two functions, Diplomatic and Consular, were united. With respect to ..,the appointment of Mr. Wood, he was not Consul in Syria : he was Drago- man at Constantinople, and he went to Syria as the agent of the Porte. Lord Palmerston defended the practice of sending special missions to collect special information : on general subjects of trade and commerce the Consuls yearly send in voluminous reports, containing much valu- able matter, which it is the duty of the Secretary of State to read him- self: the Consular correspondence, he might say, forms one half of all that engages the attention of the Foreign department. Lord Palmerston delicately vindicated the zeal and ability of the Minister at Naples, who "had the misfortune to be a relation of his." Mr. Macgregor, however, was sent out to negotiate a new tariff, and it was desirable that that duty should be performed by some one well acquainted with the tariff of England : when he went beyond his instructions, Government felt obliged to refuse to recognize his acts. As to the country being kept generally ill-informed on foreign politics, he gave the assertion the most unqualified contradiction. He considered the motion as a mere vehicle for the lamentations of hundreds of disaPpointed candidates for Consular offices. He explained the facts as to the absence of the Consular agents from Venezuela. Sir Robert Kerr Porter had leave of absence, to which he was entitled before he left his post ; but he staid to negotiate a slave-trade treaty : he then went to St. Petersburg to see some of his family. When the Vice-Consul of Porto Cabello died, Florence O'Leary was appointed in his place : true, the latter was a citizen of the state ; but it must be remembered that in the South American States citizen- ship is forced upon foreigners after a residence of two years : and at all events, General O'Leary was perfectly acquainted with the language. Lord Palmerston, remarking that the House would judge of Mr. Disraeli's accuracy in the cases which he had omitted from those which he had answered, concluded thus-

" I beg, that in future the honourable Member will turn his steel upon me. Let him attack me as much as he pleases ; but I entreat him to spare the feelings of those who occupy official situations abroad ; and if, in any case, he finds it necessary to remark upon their conduct or character, I trust he will ascertain that the information upon which he grounds his accusations is cor- xect, before he makes statements in this House which, as they must go forth to the world, cannot but inflict pain and injury upon persons employed in the public service.

The remainder of the debate turned chiefly on special points. Mr. Smrrne began with a sneer at Dr. Bowring's claim for Consular educa- tion; remarking, that if he received an official appointment, he might exclaim "0 fortunatam natam, me Consule, Romam !" In the course of some general observations, Mr. Smythe declared the treaty of Lon- don to redound as much to the credit of Lord Palmerston as the treaty of Nimeguen to that of one of his predecessors ; and he made some objections to Consuls being permitted to trade. Mr. WILLiers WIL- LIAMS urged the appointment of a Consul at Cracow. Sir WILLIAM SOMERVILLE vindicated the ability of Mr. Temple, the Minister at Na- ples, who had regularly advanced from the humble post of an Attaché. Mr. WARD thought that suggestions made that night might be acted on ; but he feared that a Diplomatic education would be hopeless while the holders of such affices are liable to displacement with party changes at home. Mr. LABOUCHERE said that Lord Palmerston had made it a rule to abolish, when practicable, the office of Consul-General where- ever there was a Diplomatic Minister resident. Captain PLUMRIDGE advocated enlarged powers for Consuls.

Mr. DISRAELI briefly replied, by touching on a few of the more obvious points in Lord Palmerston's speech. He observed, that almost all speakers had admitted the principle for which he contended. Of course he should not trouble the House to divide.

The motion was negatived, without a division.

CORH-ThIPORTATION Bus.

On the order of the day-for the second reading of the Corn-importa- tion Bill being moved, on Wednesday, Lord EBRINGTON, repeating some of the arguments against the measure, moved that the bill be read a second time that day six months.

The measure was supported by Colonel THOMAS WOOD. Captain Vrvisis opposed it. Mr. Bt.scxsToste, though generally supporting the present Government, would vote for the amendment, on the ground that the bill does not afford sufficient protection to agriculture. Mr. BUCK& would prefer greater protection to agriculture ; but he would do nothing to weaken the present Government, and therefore he should give the motion a hearty vote.

Viscount HOWICK ridiculed the inconsistency of those who, like the last speaker, approve of the present law yet vote for change ; while others on the same side see the evils of the existing act, yet pertina- ciously cling to the same policy. However, he did not regard the ques- tion from a party point of view— This much, however he felt bound to say, that the Government has brought forward the question in a manner which the importance of the subject de- manded, and had by their conduct showed their serious intention of carrying it out in a proper and efficient way. He had no hesitation also in saying that the proposed scale would have the effect of mitigating, to some extent at least, the restrictions upon the importation of foreign corn—that it would diminish the evils of the existing system ; and though, in his opinion, it did not go as far forward as was advisable, yet, as it stool, it was a very considerable provement. He thought it an improvement, moreover, because it would lead to a more effectual and complete reform of the system. It was the commence- ment of a progress which nothing on earth would hereafter be able to stop.

But it retained the principle which had caused the failure of the last Act, the attempt to put a certain price on corn. The only way in which variations of seasons can advantageously be diminished is by the natu- ral and unchecked operation of trade— The trader, if left to himself, would purchase in cheap years, and accumu- late a stock which would be brought into the market with advantage to all classes in less abundant seasons. That was the natural state of things, if the law did not interfere with it ; and experience had shown that the natural system worked with a regularityand beauty which it was impossible sufficiently to admire. In the whole order of creation there was nothing more marvellous, and at the same time more striking, than the manner in which, by the com- bined operation of a number of individuals, none of whom, perhaps, bestowed a thought upon the public necessity—each seeking to promote only his own pri- vate and individual interest—the supply of food to a great community was re- gulated. The manner in which, without waste, without interruption, without irregularity, each individual of a large nation was supplied with a proper por- tion of food in proportion to the supply—the price varying in such a manner as to enable the production to be continued, and at the same time without undue pressure on the consumer,—the manner in which all these things took place without interference on the part of any public authority, by the mere

agency of a set of traders, who were as unconscious as the wheels of some vast machine of the result of their combined operations, was indeed wonderful ; and

the more one considered this beautiful mechanism of society, the more must one be convinced that it was the appointment of unerring wisdom and infinite benevolence. Yet it was with this system that man presumed by the clumsy contrivance of legislation to interfere; and not satisfied with the order of so- ciety appointed by Providence, and with the means which Providence had established for the regulation of the supply of food, he must attempt to correct and improve what Providence hail established.

In fact, we retain in respect to our foreign trade the foolish interfer- ence which in our home trade we have abolished with the laws directed

against forestallers and regraters. The measure assumed that the in- ducements of the ordinary rise of price were not sufficient for the trader, but that he would look to some allowance in the alteration of duties; for what did the rests in the new scale mean 2—

The right honourable Baronet proposed that when the price of corn was be-

tween 52s. and 55s., the duty should be continued at 18s. in order that the importer might not look to a further rise in price, but at once bring his corn

into the market. That was a perfectly valid argument—he entirely concurred with the right honourable Baronet in the propriety of his decision upon that point ; but if it were good for the interval between 52s and 55s., he wished to know why it would not be equally good for the interval between 52s. and 60s.

If the right honourable Baronet made rests in order to avoid giving the im- porter an unnatural motive for holding back his corn when a supply was wanted—if the rests were introduced in order to restore, to a certain extent, trade to a natural state, and to place the trader under the influence of motives which would operate upon him were Parliament not to interfere at all—if the principle was good to the extent of three shillings why was it not good to a still greater extent ?

He scouted the idea of "protection," as unsuited to the age of the world. He declared, however, that he did not aim at a total repeal of duties : he would give a fixed duty to countervail the burdens on land ; but if he had no alternative betwixt the present measure and no duty at all, he should not hesitate to choose the latter. He cited the evidence of Mr. Jacobs, that the present system tends to diminish the stocks at harvest-time. Before 1815 there had always been six months' con- sumption on hand ; from that time to 1829, there had seldom been a stock in the country, at harvest-time, equal to one month's consumption. The consequence was, that, as at the last harvest, corn rose to a frightful price. The averages did not show it, because they took bad and good corn together ; but at Richmond in Yorkshire as much as 96s. a quarter was paid for wheat for immediate consumption ; and at Darlington and Newcastle-upon-Tyne the price was 84s. Men in Durham and Northum- berland were obliged to live upon potatoes and barley and other substi- tutes. At that time there were two millions of quarters locked up in our warehouses, and certain to be released in two or three weeks' time. Another effect of the sliding scale was to induce traders, in plentiful years, to invest their money in foreign corn, with a view to a future scarcity, rather than in British corn ; and thus the farmer's prices were further reduced. He agreed with Sir Robert Peel in thinking the Corn-laws not the only and perhaps not the chief cause of the distress ; but they greatly aggravate that distress. Much stress was laid on " over-production " as a cause-.-

He presumed, when honourable gentlemen on the other side talked of over- speculation and over-production, all they meant to say was, that there had

been over-production in certain particular branches of trade and manufactures.

It never would, he believed, be contended that the people suffered distress be- cause the country in general was too industrious, and because too much capital and too much labour had been productively employed—in short, that distress and poverty were the results of the country being too rich. That was a con- tradiction in terms. He therefore apprehended, that the correct interpretation of the right honourable gentleman's argument was that _there had been a mis- direction and over-activity in particular branches of trade, and not that there 1 al been too much energy, skill, and activity generally. If that wares correct representation of the right honourable gentleman's argument, Lord Howiek concurred with him. No doubt, it was perfectly true that much of the exist- ing distress arose from misdirection of capital. But if that were true, did it not follow irresistibly—was it not a strictly logical inference—that if this over' speculation and over-production, as it was termed, was one of the principal causes of the distress, the best and indeed the only cure which it was in the power of the House to apply was, to remove the restrictions on trade, and in the first place; those restrictions upon the trade id corn which forced the capital

and industry of the country out of their natural and most productive channels ? If misdirection and mistakes in the employment of capital and labour were the causes of distress, then he would say, guard against the future recurrence of that distress by the abrogation of the cause which prevented capital and labour from falling into their natural channels and being applied in the manner which would be most productive.

He cited the evidence of Sir James Graham, and the surrender of the agriculturists to the demand for change—even after a triumphant election—as a proof that the present measure could not be final ; and he predicted that Sir Robert Peel, if in office, would propose further change in the course of a year or two. Why not, then, make the alteration now with a view to a permanent settlement ? It would be for the interest of every agriculturist to settle the question without delay ; for the longer it was deferred, the worse terms would they ob- tain—the 88. fixed duty would even now no longer be accepted, but it would be necessary to go down to 6s. or 58. While a law remained in force only provisionally, it would be in vain to look for improvement in agriculture ; and who would venture to take long leases under such circumstances? Lord How ick explained, that he should vote for the amendment merely as declaring his opinion that the proposed measure was not satisfactory : he had no fear that the number of Mr. Black- stone's followers or the alliance of conflicting parties would endanger the success of the Government measure—the failure of which, as an important mitigation of the restrictions now in force, he should be the first to deprecate.

Mr. Partnurrox condemned the course pursued by Mr. Blackstone, and the acrimony displayed by the agricultural and manufacturing interests; expressing opinions in favour of the Government measure.

Mr. CHARLES BULLER said, that he should not attempt to introduce any novelty into the debate ; but he did so by quoting from a document to which Sir Robert Peel had alluded before it was published, in a former debate—the Report of Mr. Horner, the Lancashire Inspector of Factories— Mr. Homer had gone through the different factories ; he had calculated the amount of power of each ; he had calculated the number of persons which the manufactories would employ if they were in full work ; and he had given the results in one table. In another table he gave the actual result, the amount of power created, and the number of human beings employed. And, bad as Mr. Buller thought the condition of the people employed in the factories, he never believed that the amount of destitution was so great as that which actu- ally it was. Mr. Homer stated that his remarks did not apply to the cotton- trade merely, but more or less to the silk-trade, and to the woollen-trade and the flax-trade even more than to the cotton-trade. It appeared, then, that if the mills generally had been at work, and all their available power in opera- tion, about 29,800 persons would be actually employed more than the number now employed. The number of persons employed on short time, and conse- quently receiving diminished wages, was no less than 32,000; so that there were 61,000 persons partially employed, or not employed at all : and even de- ducting 14,516 for the 3,350 new horse-power added since 1839, there would still remain 15,300 unemployed, and 32,000 partially employed, making toge- ther nearly 50,000 people out of ;223,000, or about two-ninths of the popula- tion, in distress for want of employment. He was aware that it might be said that additional power had been created without ever having given employment ; but it struck him, from the general character of the report, that the whole number of people bad been employed. The Member for Dorchester stated the other night, that since 1839 no fewer than ninety-one new cotton-mills bad been established ; and he was sure the right honourable Baronet, in alluding to a document not before the public, did not intend to deal unfairly with the House when he stated the addition which had been made to the productive power of the country ; but in using that as an argument against any distress in the manufacturing districts, he ought to have stated, that during that time the addition was counterbalanced by the enormous quantity of power thrown out of employment. The right honourable Baronet mentioned that ninety- one new additional mills had been established, having a power of 3,350 horses : but it appeared that at the very same time milb having a power of 6,778 horses were out of employment, so that there still remained mills having a power of 3,438 horses unemployed ; and, as Mr. Horner showed, this power would give employment to about 16,000 persons. It appeared, then, that nearly 60,000 persons were either destitute of employment or working on short time.

Mr. Horner explained how it was that the more the manufacturer be- came distressed, the greater was the difficulty he experienced in com- peting with the foreign manufacturer, and the greater the ingenuity he exercised in the invention of machinery, that he might as much as pos- sible dispense with human labour— In times past, said Mr. Homer, ingenuity had been stimulated to manufac- ture the articles at less cost, by making machinery more productive and by obtaining mechanical for manual labour ; and, when manual labour was still necessary, by substituting children for adults. In every department of a cotton-mill the object had been carried more or less into effect by these means, but in no department so conspicuously as in one of the last processes, the spin- ning of the yarn on mules, which was performed by the most skilled and there- fore the highest-paid class of workers in the mill. Those persons who were formerly paid the highest wages now earned least, and were called by their brother workmen ciphers. He would invite the attention of the House to the specific means by which, according to Mr. Homer, human labour was dispensed with. That gentleman stated, with regard to Manchester—" In a mill in Manchester, (A. B.,) where they spin the finest numbers of yarn, a room was shown to me where, in 1829, there were eight mules of 324 spindles each, worked by four spinners. The mules were afterwards doubled in length, and carried 648 spindles; and I found them worked by two spinners. These lengthened mules were immediately to be double-decked, as similar ones in the mill had already been, and then one man would work the whole. Thus one man now works the 2,592 spindles, which in 1829 were worked by four men.

Quoting several other instances, Mr. Buller proceeded—

What was the operation of this substitution of machinery for human labour ? Capital was expended on machinery and mechanical improvements, and the workmen were thrown out of employment. But that was not all—a tendency was given to over-production. For when human labour was employed, if from over-production or other causes prices were not remunerative, the balance was restored by not employing so many labourers, and thus diminishing the amount of production ; but when mechanical labour was used, and the machine was made, as Mr. Horner explained, and as honourable gentlemen who were at all acquainted with these things must well know, the manufacturer found it ad- visable to go on working and producing even at a loss, rather than permit the machinery to stand still. Now what was the effect, and what was the natural and obvious remedy for over-production ? A. cessation of production, in order to allow the stock on hand to become exterminated, until the supply and de- mand again become in due relation to each other. In Lancashire, it appeared that the manufacturers were working their mills at a loss rather than not at all. Mr. Horner further said, that notwithstanding the decreased demand, the manufacturers could only pay themselves by increasing the quantity produced and sent into the market, and thus still more over- steeling the world with goods. In a long statement of figures Mr. Buller calculated the loss which had accrued to the country from not adopting the 8s. duty in Anent last. Under various hypotheses, he estimated that loss at 544,000L, 949,000L, and 1,438,000t in price, which went into the pockets of the dealers, and at 730,000L in the shape of revenue; in all, probably 2,168,000L He allowed two merits, however, to Sir Robert Peel measure,—that it brings in a little more revenue ; and that it pulls one brick out of the old system, which gave hope that the Teat might follow at a future time.

Sir EDWARD KNATCHBULL supported the motion; discountenancing Mr. Blackstone's procedure ; but with no new arguments. The same may be said of Mr. SHEIL on the other aide: and much the same of Mr. Granteronz again, who opposed Mr. Sheil, with some sarcasms on his inconsistency in having voted in 1838 and 1839 for a law which he now denounced. Mr. Gladstone admitted that repeal of the Corn-laws might give more employment to manufacturing workpeople ; but it would at the same time displace a large number of agricultural labourers who are now employed.

Lord Jowl RUSSELL was not much more happy in respect of novelty. He declared that when the late Ministers brought forward measures founded on sound principles of free trade, it was their opinion that they should be able to carry them The argument really employed by Sir Robert Peel to bring converts to his support would have justified a much greater change— The real argument used with honourable gentlemen opposite to induce them to listen to a proposal for change, was, that if they did not support the right honourable gentleman, there would come another change of Government which would be worse for the landed interest than the change now proposed. They were told that they must follow the lantern of the right honourable gentleman, or if they dared to walk through Palace Yard alone in the dark, they would be sure to meet with the ghost of the late Ministry. It was by such arguments as this, and not by any upon the merits of an alteration of the Corn.law, that honourable gentlemen opposite were persuaded. But if the argument was% good for that purpose, it was good for a much greater and more beneficial change. If such use could be made of the late Ministers, he was quite willing that still further use should be made of them. They might have told the landed interest that the late Ministry would come in and surely abolish all protectiou ; and the right honourable gentleman might have proposed an Ss. fixed duty as a very much better thing than could lie hoped for from the late Ministers if they returned.

Sir ROBERT PEEL declined Lord John's offer to make him a present of the 8.9. fixed duty. He insisted that Lord John was aware that he meant to effect a change : he could not be otherwise than aware, for Lord Worsley and Mr. Handley had told the electors of Lincoln that they would oppose Sir Robert on that ground. Lord John had said that he did not wish corn to be lower than was consistent with justice to the agriculturist ; but the difficulty was to find what was justice to the agri- culturist. Alluding to attacks upon him which had been repeated by some of the previous speakers, Sir Robert reminded the House, that he had not said that the very meatipre which he proposed would not give any relief to commercial distress : what he did say was, that he did not recommend the proposal by exciting hopes that it would "materially and immediately" mitigate the commercial distress ; and he said that he did not attribute the distress "to the extent which some have sup- posed" to the operation of the Corn-laws. It was said that he wished to fix the price of corn at 54s. to 588.: he expressly said that he was afraid to name a price, but he stated the price at which foreign compe- tition should begin. Lord John Russell had taunted him with concili- ating support ; but Lord John Russell himself conciliated support by leaving his own principles undefined ; for in making his late motion he did not explain on what principles the 8s. duty was grounded. Sir Ro- bert contrasted his own course in announcing his measure in the Speech from the Throne, and then at once proceeding in it, with that of the late Ministry, who suddenly introduced their measure at a late period of the session- " I did not want to bring forward a measure enunciating some general prin- ciples, and after spending the session in discussion, find myself in August practically where I was in January previous. I wished to propose a measure which there would be a prospect of passing into a law—not giving universal satisfaction, for that I despaired of—but having the concurrence of the well- thinking' rational, intelligent portions of the community. Yes, and I have had it. Pinch cheering.) And what makes your debates so flat and dull ? what, but that the country has decided in favour of my measure ? I sun not speaking of the Anti-Corn-law League; it is quite impossible that they should so soon forget their vocation as to permit their acquiescence in this law. I am not speaking of the agricultural community. But I do believe that among the trading, manufacturing, commercial classes, there is a strong conviction that the measure I have proposed, looking at the existing state of the country, is a fair and just arrangement. Yes, and if it were otherwise, I should find the debates in this House carried on with much more spirit and vigour." The approaching division would afford no index of opinion on his bill, because the minority would include many who were in favour of a fixed duty, and those also who were afraid of his measures going too far. He thought the advocates of protection should consider whether they could carry a law which would be more generally satisfactory and at the same time give higher protection. With a sneer at Lord John Russell for ridiculing the fears of agriculturists since he had become a Town instead of a County Member—fears and prejudices which his own writings had been especially calculated to foster—Sir Robert con- cluded by calling on the great body of his supporters to give him their aid.

Lord WORSLEY having said a few words in vindication of his own consistency, which had been impeached, and Sir CHARLES NAPIER having said a sentence or two on the length of voyages from America, Mr. VILLIERS, to prevent misconception, declared that he voted against the bill because its purpose was to continue the obstruction to the trade in food.

The House divided : for the second reading, 284; for the amend- ment, 176; majority, 108.

PROHIBITED MARRIAGES.

Lord FRANCIS EGERTON moved, on Tuesday, for leave to bring in a bill to alter the law relating to marriages within certain degrees of

affinity. He could hardly expect, he said, not to meet with serious op- position. Until 1835, a large class of marriages within the prohibited degrees were not void ab initiy, but were voidable by a sentence obtained from the Ecclesiastical Court. In 1835,a law was passed which rendered valid the marriages of that class which had been already solemnized ; but in the progress of the measure, another enactment was engrafted on it—how, he knew not—which declared all such marriages contracted in future void ab initio. The inconsistency of annulling, prospectively, marriages which were affirmed retrospectively, was felt at the time ; and the passage of the law was only permitted on the distinct under- standing, that in consequence of the lateness of the session consent was given without the deliberation due to the ultimate bearings of the new law. Thus the matter had rested from that time. It might be asked whether it was discreet quieta movere? but whether the House agreed to his particular measure or not, circumstances had occurred which showed that it was absolutely necessary that the attentive consideration of the Legislature should be given to the subject in all its bearings— He would make bold to say, that the law of 1835 did not go forth to the country with the sanction of the Legislature after having been fully and fairly considered ; neither was the law consistent with the practice of the British community, or with the Christian Protestant communities of Europe. He would further assert, that the law did not carry with it that weight which se- cured to our statutes obedience from all who were not determined and very pro- fligate law-breakers. He could tell the House, that the statute had been re- sisted and evaded by men of a far different complexion than profligate and professed law-breakers. He believed he was entitled to say that it had been evaded to a large extent by men of all classes—by persons of education, and by persons who had no other moral slur or taint upon their character than what this law, which the' deemed to be unjustly founded, might be considered by some to convey. This alone, he thought, was a fact sufficient to show the necessity at least of considering whether, if they determined to retain the law, it was not necessary to make it effectual for the purpose for which it was intended ; its main purpose being the prevention of great domestic unhappiness, and of frequent and extensive litigation with regard to the rights of inherit- ance and of property. That object had not been gained by the present law : and why ?—because those persons who thought themselves morally and reli- giously entitled to infringe the statute, resorted not merely to countries beyond the dominion of the law, but he had been told resorted to Scotland itself for that purpose. The utmost uncertainty prevailed among lawyears as to the actual efficacy of that evasion ; and lawyers of eminence were daily and hourly consulted as to the means by which the existing law could be evaded. The solicitors of London and other places had petitioned for a remedy for that state of things— He had understood that those petitions had been spoken of without much deference to the opinion of that body. On such a subject as this, he had con- siderable deference for the opinion of a large body of solicitors, unless he thought that that opinion was biased by professional views of their own inte- rest. Attornies were probably better acquainted than any other class in so- ciety with the social current and stream of life running through all ranks and grades. They were often the archivists—he might say the confessors of fa- milies: and in this instance he was disposed to think more favourably of their opinion, because what they were calling upon the Legislature to do was di- rectly in the teeth of their own professional interests. He remembered a story of two foxhunters falling into a quarry : one of them was upon the point of warning the rest of the field of the danger, when the other said, "Lie still; hold gour tongue and we shall have them all in the pit presently." Now if these attomies had been low-minded, self-seeking men, they might have said- " Don't warn the Legislature of these evils; held your tongue and we shall

,

soon have a plentiful crop of lawsuits pass through our hands Which will bring grist to the mill." Some seven years had passed since thislaw was enacted : many children had been born from marriages which it was supposed the law treated as void; and he would venture to say that the seeds of litigation were now lying dormant which would by and by flourish and yield a most plenteous harvest. That harvest he wished to prevent. The bill which he desired to introduce was identical with the one which Lord Wharneliffe formerly brought forward in the House of Lords ; and a principal point in it was, that it would enable a widower to marry i the sister of his deceased wife. The question might be re- garded n two points of view, the religious and the social. On the sacred ground he should tread lightly. He believed that the chief ob- jection was derived from that portion of the Old Testament called Le- viticus: his own conviction was, that no conclusion could be drawn from that part of Scripture binding on a Christian legislature. The Popes had never been understood to extend their dispensing power to sanction any thing which was obviously and avowedly in opposition to the Word of God ; and they all knew that these marriages had been allowed in Catholic countries. Passing to the question of human expe- diency, he considered some objections to the measure— It was supposed by many, that the permission to marry the sister of a de- ceased wife would interfere with the friendly and familiar intercourse which at present took place between the husband and the sister-in-law. In some cases, he admitted, it was difficult to calculate what might be the effect of such a measure ; it might cut both ways. Some moral monster might certainly exist who would deliberately attempt to seduce the sister of his living wife, because, having consulted his solicitor, he found that he could make amends to her by marriage after the death of his wife. It might also happen that wives would be found of so jealous a disposition as to entertain such a suspicion of their husbands. But it was so difficult to provide against individual cases of the kind, that he thought they ought not to be contemplated in legislation. Such monstrosities must be beyond the contemplation of those who were framing statutes for the general regulation of society. Again, it had been suggested that a measure of this kind would diminish to some extent the sanctity now supposed to invest, and which be trusted did invest, the character of the sister of a wife—that it would tend to lessen if not to disperse the halo of intangi- bility now surrounding the character of the sister of a man's wife. He owned that he felt no such apprehensions ; and believed that as the statutes upon this subject were of recent origin, another enactment in the direction in which he wished it to take would produce no such effect. Those who objected to his measure were bound to make out a case of Social expediency to a very great RIBOBIIt. Perhaps they were not aware of the extent to which the law is evaded ? Since 1835, in Man- chester alone, ninety-one cases of evasion have been ascertained; and it is supposed that four or five times as many have actually taken place. He was glad that his opponents could bring no stronger argument against him than the words of Bishop Jewel— The words of Bishop Jewel, addressed to one who had applied to him for advice and consolation under such circumstances as these, were—" The world is wide, and there are other women from whom you may choose your wife." Now much the same was said to our First Parents when, with solitary steps and slow," they began their walk from Paradise " The world was all before them." But was that a consolation to them, when looking back they slw the sword of the avenging angel flashing over the walls which they had left ? No; they were paying the fruit of their disobedience, forewarned, as they had been, of the consequences that would follow their neglect of that direct and positive mandate. There the voice of Heaven had been expressed ; but in this case the voice of Heaven was silent, and that of man had been given with a hesitation and confusion of utterance that deprived it of its due authority. Here too, perhaps, " some natural tears they shed "; but who could say what change of scene and lapse of time might do to mitigate the regrets of one who would very probably be at that age when passion, to use the words of Burke, had lost half its grossness but not all its power, and who might perhaps feel those affections which had been extinguished for the moment by his crushing domestic cala- mity, revive and recover towards one whom he might consider their legitimate object, and as being worthy of his warmest devotion. Come between that person and that object if you would, and blast his hopes, but spare at least your cold and insulting consolation. Preach to him, reason with him, threaten him, if you would ; tell him of Basil, of Diodorus, and of Councils of Illiberis ; but do not tell him that the world is wide before him, and that there are other women for his wife and the stepmother of his children. Lord Francis mentioned a case, in which a dying wife desired to leave her children to the care of her sister, and enjoined her husband to marry the sister for that purpose : surely it was a great responsibility for the Legislature to interfere between a husband and such injunctions of a wife. Up to 1835, the prohibitions rested on the Canons of 1603, Bishop Parker's prohibited degrees : by the present bill it was proposed to set forth distinctly the degrees of consanguinity and lineal affinity to which the prohibition would apply. The existing law in foreign countries countenanced the change— In the most Christian communities of Europe these marriages were allowed, under various restrictions. The restrictions, in the Protestant states of Germany, were chiefly directed against the crime of previous adultery ; and in some instances they invested the Sovereign with a power of dispensation similar to that which in Roman Catholic countries lay in the Pope. The common consent of other Protestant Christian countries in favour of allowing these marriages rendered it to him more surprising that they should have been so long prohibited here. He concluded by moving for leave to bring in a bill to amend the Act of 1835, intitaled "An Act to render certain marriages valid, and to alter the law with respect to certain voidable marriages, and to define the prohibited degrees of affinity."

Mr. PETER BORT/MICK seconded the motion.

Sir ROBERT Nous regretted that a bill on such a subject had been introduced at all ; but doubly that it was brought forward by one whose acquirements and station added a double weight to the evil. Lord Francis Egerton neither relied on the revealed law of God nor found it opposed to him : into that question he would not enter— Though he followed the example of the noble lord, however, as regarded the mode of treating that part of the subject, he did not agree with him ; conceiv- ing, as he did, that the law of God did prohibit that which the noble lord sought to legalize. It would be sufficient for him to state what the noble lord had not denied, and what, he believed, was undeniable, that the concurrent testimony of the universal Christian Church distinctly showed that the mar- riages which the noble lord sought to sanctify were by the Church not sanc- tioned. Such marriages might or might not be contrary to Scripture—they might or might not be contrary to the revealed will of God—but certainly the universal Church, for fifteen centuries, declared them to be contrary to her tenets. The noble lord had referred to the Council of Illiberis : without entering into details regarding any decisions of that Council, he would simply repeat the proposition, that in no instance in church antiquity would the noble lord find these marriages to have been sanctified.

But he did not rest on the revealed law of God : reasons of the time sufficed to show that the proposition was one improper to be enter- tained, for practical, political, and general reasons— The noble lord had stated some cases of seeming hardship to inclividnals. He had referred to the case of a person bereaved of his wife, who in her dying moments consigned her children to the care of her own sister, and enjoined her husband to make that sister his lawful wife. He would not deny that such cases existed—not perhaps in great numbers, but certainly to as great an ex- tent as the noble lord had represented; but even making this admission, what was the state of the case ? Why, it would be found that for every solitary instance in which the present law pressed heavily, there would be nine-and- forty others in which its alteration would be destructive to domestic peace ; for were the noble lord's proposition agreed to, husbands would be in a great measure deprived of the assistance of those who, next to their own wives, were the best assistants in the care and nurture of their children. He be- lieved that at present there was only one case on record in which an unlawful intercourse was even alleged to have taken place between a husband and his wife's sister. What was this owing to ? Solely because, under the present state of the law, husbands considered their wives' sisters to stand in the same relation to them as their own sisters. (" No, no !") He earnestly hoped that denial was not intended to imply that there was any one in that House or in the country who looked on the relationship in any other point of view. It had always been his habit when he saw a measure which was objectionable either hi a Parliamentary or a moral sense, to consider himself bound either to affirm the principle or to reject it. Even, therefore, limiting his view of the present measure to one solitary circumstance, he should feel bound to vote for its re- jection. Sir Robert's further reasons— The noble lord did not confine his measure to marriages with a deceased wife's sister; but he proposed to annex a schedule, which would open the ground to further alteration. Whatever was not included would be so much with- drawn from what was allowed by the Church of England, and by other Chris- tian Churches. His noble friend said the voice of Heaven was silent, and that the voice of man was in favour of this measure ; and he had referred to what had occurred in the House on this subject some years ago. Now what security would they have if they consented to this bill, that seven years hence another new measure on the subject would not be proposed, suggesting new amend- ments in addition to those to be effected by the present schedule ? He said that it was most undesirable that they should open the door to such an occur- rence. This was not a subject of such an exciting nature—it was not a subject so free from all delicacy and difficulty that it was desirable for the House to be continually called on to legislate upon it. He felt therefore that there was sufficient in the announcement of this measure to induce him to take the sense of the House as to whe- ther they should consider it at all ; and, without wearying them any further, he did hope that they would put a stop to such bills by at once rejecting the proposition.

Mr. MONCIETON MILNES said, that this was one of those questions which they should take home to their thoughts and feelings. He denied that the universal Catholic Church prohibited marriages of this

description : the Canon law provided a dispensation in certain cases. Mr. Milnes enjoined the House to consider the feelings of the people at large.

Mr. A. B. HOPE had heard with a great deal of amazement and fear, the noble lord characterize many individuals as upright members of society and estimable men, who had, according to his own account, within the last seven years transgressed a law both of the Church and the State.

Mr. CHARLES BULLER deprecated a hasty vote, and moved the adjournment of the debate : in which he was supported by Sir ROBERT PEEL. Mr. PEumereE suggested that Sir Robert Inglis should raise the discussion on the second reading; but Sir ROBERT Irwin would not assent. Dr. NICHOLL remarked, that the law applicable to the case was not the Canon law of 1603, but the law of the realm of Henry the Eighth. Eventually, it was resolved to adjourn the debate on the motion for leave, to Wednesday next, the 16th.

LAW OF EVIDENCE IMPROVEMENT BILL.

In the House of Lords, on Tuesday, Lord DENMAN moved the second reading of the Law of Evidence Improvement Bill ; explaining its main objects. First, it would remove in every case, except where they were substantial parties to the suit, the exclusion against the evidence of witnesses interested in the result of the ease; a disqualification which presses heavily on the interest of suitors. Next, the bill would remove the disability of giving evidence from persons convicted of certain crimes ; a disability not, even at present, extended to those who participate in the crime but avoid conviction by giving evidence against their associates, nor to those who are pardoned ; while it is extended to persons convicted of manslaughter, such as by accidentally riding over a child. It would be for the jury to consider the worth of the testimony thus admitted. Lord Denman gave an instance of the way in which the existing disability is abused— In the course of last term, a gentleman called upon his attorney to account for large slims of money received by him during several years. The attorney answered the affidavit in the usual way. The client had employed a particular person as steward or bailiff, with whom the attorney had been in communica- tion, to whom the latter alleged that he had paid various sums of money, and who was therefore an important person to show the nature of the case. The client brought the attorney criminally before the court to answer for this sup- posed maleversation, and then produced a record of the conviction for perjury of his own steward or bailiff, the very man whom he had put in communication with his attorney ; and thus entitled himself to prevent a statement of the truth from being heard.

The bill would permit a certain denomination of Baptists to make affirmation instead of taking oath ; and it would remove the necessity for much verbiage in drawing up the record, arising from the fact that all jurors now do not take oath, while the phrase "the jurors upon their oath " is retained.

The LORD CHANCELLOR said he had found opinion in Westminster Hall generally in favour of the bill ; but he thought that ample time should be allowed for consideration, and that it ought not to be com- mitted until after the circuit. Lord BROUGHAM felt grave satisfaction at the introduction of the measure. Lord WYNFORD would carry the measure further, and admit plaintiff and defendant to give evidence. Lord CAMPBELL entirely concurred in the measure ; but not in Lord Wynford's suggestion : he would extend the indulgence respecting evi- dence on affirmation to all who conscientiously objected to take an oath.

The bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on the first Thursday after the Easter recess.

LAW Or LUNACY.

The LORD CHANcErLon laid on the table a bill to amend the pro- ceedings in cases of lunacy. At present there are certain standing Commissioners to whom petitions in lunacy cases arising within twenty miles of London are referred ; but beyond that limit commissions are sent to persons who have little or no experience in such mat- ters. These Commissioners are paid by fees, which press heavily on the estates of lunatics : in Lord Portsmouth's case the fees amounted to 1,071!.; in Mr. Grundry's to 2,2201. Hence, when the estate is small, the friends are afraid to apply to the Lord Chancellor. Sometimes the proceedings under the country com- missions are quashed for irregularity, and the whole cost is renewed : in one case the expense thus occasioned, exclusively of fees before the Master, amounted to 5,200/. He proposed to appoint two permanent Commissioners to hear cases in town and country, with fixed salaries. At present twenty-four jurors are employed, at a guinea a day ; of whom twelve at least must concur in the verdict : he proposed to make the Jury consist of twelve, who need not be unanimous in their finding. To avoid the delays in the Master's Office, (which sometimes extend to eighteen months, and in one case to two years,) after the report of the Commissioners and before the appointment of a Committee to take charge of the lunatic's affairs, the Commissioners would have power to make inquiry into the estate. He should abolish (with compensation) the office of Clerk of the Custodies, transferring the duties to the Se- cretary of Lunatics. The Commissioners would be ex-officio visiters of lunatic asylums.

Lord BROUGHAM and Lord CODTENHAM agreed in the general prin- ciple of the bill ; reserving their opinion on the details.

MISCELLANEOUS.

CHURCH OF SCOTLAND. On Monday, Mr. ALEXANDER CAMPBELL gave notice, that on the 15th he would move that a Select Committee be appointed to consider the constitution and principles of the Church of Scotland, and to inquire into the causes of the collision between the Supreme Courts of that Church and the Supreme Civil Courts.

THE PHILIPSTOWN Flume. Mr. SMITH O'BRIEN gave notice, that on the 15th be should move for copies of the notes of the proceed- ings at the Coroner's inquest held on the body of James Flanagan, at Clonearl, and of correspondence on the subject.

THE SPY SYSTEM IN IRELAND. On Wednesday, Mr. JOHN O'CON- NELL asked Lord Eliot if had seen the statement of Delahunt that he was induced to commit murder in the hope of obtaining sustenance. as an informer against others, and whether it was Lord Eliot's intention to continue a system that evidently led to crime ? The Assizes had recently brought to light two cases in which an informer had put Riband documents in the pockets of persons against whom he in- formed ; and in another case, an informer was proved himself to have shot a cow, which he charged others with killing. Lord Emor said that the practice of holding out inducements to witnesses was in itself objectionable ; but in the present state of Ireland, with the difficulty of procuring witnesses, if the practice were discontinued many atro- cious crimes would go unpunished. He hoped that there was a grow- ing feeling of respect for the law in Ireland, which would soon make it unnecessary to have recourse to such means to insure convictions.

MARRIAGES LV IRELAND. In the House of Lords, on Tuesday, on the motion of the LORD CHANCELLOR, a Committee was appointed to take into consideration the state of the law in Ireland as it related to marriages, with a view of providing some remedy for evils now com- plained of; and the Marriages Bill, lately passed by the Commons as a retrospective remedy for Presbyterian marriages, which was read a second time, was referred to that Committee.

EDUCATION IN IRELAND. In reply to the Marquis of LANsnownn, on Thursday, the Duke of WELLINGTON stated that he had no intention of withdrawing the grants for schools under the Board of Education in Ireland. If any alteration were made in the system, it would merely be to improve its working.