DebattstnbVroteetrinns in palianient.
THE ARMY ESTIMATES.
On Monday, the motion for going into Committee of Supply having been put from the chair,
Mr. RUNE asked whether Members knew the real state of the finances ? Last year the excess of income over expenditure was a mail. lion and a half ; and next year it would probably be two millions. It seems we are to have new taxes ; but he was against any addition tothe burden of taxation. It was most important to bear in mind that the necessity of new taxes arose, not from deficiency of revenue, but in- crease of expenditure. The Army was to be increased : but why? He wished for explanation on that point. Last year there were disturb. ances in Canada ; and now it was said the Boundary dispute required a large force to be kept up in North America— An addition of 5,000 men had been last year made in consequence of the disturbed state of the country, but there was no disturbance at present, and why propose an additional 8,000? Ireland also was tranquil, and how had that tranquillity been produced ? 'Why, by doing equal justice to all parties. Why not try the same policy with Canada, seeing the happy results which followed from its adoption with respect to Ireland ? "Why were the masses hi England discontented ? Because the laws operated unequally with respect to the poor and the rich. How could the noble lord the Secretary for the Colonies recon- cile his conduct now with what it had been on former occasions ? Why did he not, now that he was in 'power, do for the masses in this country that which he had so boldly done for Ireland when he was in opposition ? Let him act now for England as he had done formerly for Ireland, and there would be no occasion for so large a force to overawe and keep down the people. But he regretted to find that there was no disposition on the part of the Administra- tion to do justice to the amasses. In addition to the military establishment, we had now an efficient police force in all the great towns. The fact was, that the Government went on day by day like a spendthrift, who, the more Ile was involved, became the more cureless. They absolutely ran riot in extravagance, and must ultimately bring the country into great difficulty, nimble as it was to bear any additional weight of new taxation. The result would be, that those on the opposite side of the House would found motions upon it, to show that Ministers were unfit to govern the country. He gave them this warning in the hope that it would operate as a check upon the course which they now BO recklessly pursued. During the whole time that he bad been in Parliament he never knew the Army Estimates so extravagant us they were at present; and it would be his duty, if any additional taxes were proposed, to resist the imposition of a single shilling, until full and satisfactory reasons were given for the increase.
Colonel SIIITHORPE said that Mr. Hume had very inconsistently given his support to the men against whose extravagance he now inveighed; and, after accusing them of running riot in expense, he very quietly sat down and refused his support to any measure which would throw Ministers overboard.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL could not agree that time necessary augmenta• tion of the Army was a consequence of neglecting the policy which Mr. Hume recommended with respect to Canada— His opinion was directly the reverse ; for the demands then made went to establish a French Canadian republic in Canada ; and he had thought it ne- cessary to resist by force the carrying of that into effect. The continuance of a very considerable force in Canada made the reliefs which were necessary ac- cording to a prescribed system in the Army exceedingly difficult to be carried into ellect ; and that was still so much the case, that there were regiments in Canada that had been twelve or thirteen years absent from the United King- dom. A very proper system existed in the Army, by which the troops sent abroad on colonial service should return after ten years to this country—and remain for a certain period. The proportion of troops now employed abroad was very much larger than usual; and it was found impossible to carry that system into effect, which was another reason why he had proposed to make the increase in the Army which the House had granted, and under which the Commander-in-Chief proposed means by which the system of relief might be reestablished, and which, with the approbation of Government, was now being gradually carried into effect. He (lid not think the House would so far bear on the Army as to prevent this relief, which was necessary to its due effi- ciency, as well as due in justice to mess who underwent great privation in time of peace. With respect to the American Boundary, Lord John observed, that Lord Palmerston, in the course of last year, had transmitted a project for the purpose of finally settling this question with the American Government. After the lapse of a considerable period, the American Govermnent sent back a different one, called a counter-project, with various provisions of their own. At the same time that those provisions reached this country, there arrived two gentlemen who had been ordered to make a survey of the part of the country iu which the disputed boundary existed. These gentlemen were now employed in making a report of their survey ; and as soon as their report was received, an answer would be given to this counter-project of' the Ameri- can Government. That was the state of things at present, which would show gentlemen that there was not the want of any attention in making an answer to the ultimatum, as Mr. Hume called it, of the American Government. There was another question—namely, of claims made by citizens of the state of Alaine to parts stated to belong to this country, which bad led to proceed- ings between the Lieutenant-Gm ernor of New Brunswick and the authorities of the state of Maine. That had led to some correspondence which had ap- peared, and it had led to the necessity of protecting the road and the shores by which our troops moved from New Brunswick to Canada, and which it was necessary to provide against, as gangs of persons roved about on parts held not to belong to either party.
At the conclusion of Lord John Russell's speech, the House went into a Committee of Supply, Mr. Bernal in the chair.
Mr. MACAULILY then rose to move the Army Estimates. He thought that few Members who had listened to Mr. flume's speech, would easily believe that the military establishment proposed for this year was lower as to men and charge than that which Mr. Hume had voted for and spoke for in August leg- it wail only on the M (lay of August that his noble friend came down to propose an addition of 75,000i. to the estimate, and an addition of 5,000 men o the Arm)', that Mr. Hume declared that he would not take upon himself the responsibility of reffising to the Ministers of the Crown those men and those sums which they declared to be necessary for the preservation of the peace and of the state ; aml he should be glad to know if those same arguments which had been used that evening might not have been used to the same effect in August last. All that Mr. Ilume had said about Canada—all that he had said about the people of this country—all that he had said about the condition of the people of Ireland might have been said with exactly equal propriety and effect on the 2d of August last year. Ile conceived, therefore, at all events, in bringing forward the estimate which he had the honour to lay before the Utilise, be could not be considered as liable to the chargeof profusion in so doing. The estimate brought fbrward last year by Lord llowlek was 6,119,068/. ; to that sum, ill August, 75,000/. were added, making the whole charge last year 6,194,00/. The whole charge of this year was about 30,0001. more. This was a considerable addition, but of that addition the greater part had been made for Indian purposes, and would be a charge upon We Indian revenue. The whole force for which the estimate was taken onlhe 18th February 1839, amounted to 109,818 men. The present establishment amounted to 121,112 men. The additional force was 11,294 men ; but of this force 7,206 men were employed is the defence of our Indian empire, and were charged upon the revenue of that country. There remained therefore an increase of 4,088 men : 5,000 men, he believed, was the addition for which Mr. num° voted last August. Ile might be permitted to state the mode in which this addition was made, because in doing so he should most conclusively refute the invidious insinuations of the Member for Kilkenny. By increase of the Colonial forces 500 men had been added. Three companies, amounting to 33 men each, had been added to the West Indies. About 100 men, he thought 102, had been added to Malta. The necessity, of this addition had been made out to the Government by the local authorities, who had represented that it was necessary that both the duties of the garrison and of the coast should be performed by that power. A small militia had been raised at Bermuda, and it was thought desirable that a portion of the youth of Bermuda should be formed into a separate power, in the hope that they might learn in company with the best troops of England the very best system of military discipline ; so that, after being attached for a short time to military arrangements, in the course of a few years Bermuda should possess a population almost every man of which should be able to use arms with effect whenever required. In this manner they had made an addition of about 500 men.
He had found it necessary to make an addition to the charge of ammunition, forage, and provisions ; and he would explain why— The reason was this. It was known to the Committee that the Australian Colonies had suffered severely from calamities, which seemed to be a set-off against the physical blessings with which they were endowed. The men had suffered from the effects of a most cruel drought; they had been excluded from the benefits of tea, and of vegetables to their soup ; and in consequence of the high price of provisions, they had been reduced from three to two meals a day, one of which was scanty mid unpalatable, consisting only of oatmeal. These privations bad fallen with the most cruelty upon those to whom our gallant men were most attached ; and the medical men reported that the effects of the scarcity were visible upon the women and children attached to the regiments. Under these circumstances, it would be desirable to maintain proper and efficient discipline ; and therefore, if even all considerations of hu- manity could be discarded, policy alone would dictate attention to that point. In fact, to a certain and partial extent, discipline had already given way, and in one regiment the crime of theft had spread to some extent. It was in con- sequence therefore, of the distress which the gallant and deserving men serving in the Colonies had suffered that he had made this addition of 5,000/. to the Estimates.
There were some charges, he admitted, perfectly new— The first was a charge of' 3,500/. for schoolmistresses. He saw some of his friends near him smile, but they were perhaps not aware, as indeed he himself was not until a few weeks ago, of the strong reason there existed for this charge. The number of female children actually accompanying our regiments, was not less than 10,000. Those children were in the most emphatic manner to be called "the children of the State." For the public service they were hurried from place to place—front Malta to Gibraltar, from Gibraltar to the West Indies, front the West Indies to Halifax, as the common weal might require. It would, therefore, be inexcusable it' we did not provide these, at a small expense, with some means of instruction. Ever since 1811 a school- master had been attached to every regiment ; and he thought that there should be a depot for the instruction of female children also, under the superintend- ence ot a schoolmistress, who might be probably the wife of' a sergeant, and whose duty would be to instruct them in reading, writing, needlework, and the rudiments of common knowledge ; with such simple precepts of morality and religion as a good plain woman of that rank might be supposed capable of im- parting to them.
Mr. MitcAtmAy explained other parts of the Estimates, and con- cluded by moving, that 03,471 troops be voted for her Majesty's land service abroad and at home, (exclusive of those employed in the East Indies,) from the 1st April 1840 to the 1st March 1841,
Mr. HUME knew there was such a thing as exaction as well as eco- nomy; and he would tell an anecdote which concerned himself, as it was a short one— Ile was standing at the bar talking to Mr. Vansittart, then Chancellor of the Exchequer, when somebody asked " Who are those ?" The answer was, They are penny wise and pound foolish." (Laughter.) Now he admitted that be would rather at any time be " penny wise " than " pound foolish." (Laughter.) He could not agree to the vote. The Army had been gradually in- creasing without a sufficient reason— Be maintained that the Army, as at present constituted, Wag more than suf- ficient to meet all the demands that might be made upon it. With to regularly- established police force rapidly extending itself over the whole of the kingdom, he could not calculate upon the probability of any eireinnstance arising within the next twelve 111011111S that could call for the service of so large a military body, if the police force were worth any thing, it was clear that as its num- bers increased, the numbers of the Army ought to diminish. He moved to reduce the vote to 81,319 men—the number found suffi- cient in 1837-8.
Mr. WILLIAM Wthuams seconded the amendment. Lord HowteK had looped that there would have been no delay in raising the veteran force in Canada and Black troops in the West
He regretted that much more correspondence would be required before the proposed veteran force in Canada could be established, and had hoped to have heard that some further increase of the Black troops had taken place. Experi- ence had shown, and inquiry had proved, that the mortality which occurred amongst the British olditirs in our West Indian Colonieswas of a most frights. ful magnitude ; and th?re seemed to him no other mode of effectually meeting that evil but by some further increase of the Black troops. Sir HENRY HARMNCE thought that the questions raised by Lord Howick ought to be referred to the Secretary of the Colonies.
Mr. Humii's amendment \VBS negatived, by 100 to S.
Lord Homes: then called attention to the ride by which the British soldier serving in India was compelled to take the rupee in pay for more than its worth— The British officer serving in India was required to receive the rupee as equal to half-a-crown ; and when it was sent to Eugland he received for it only
2s., and Mien oniy I s. lOrt. Lord William Bentinek had taken a great inte-
rest in this question, and had strongly condemned the ihjnetice which was done to the British troops in India by -the mode in whack they were paid. That noble lord had raorded his oliiirion that the pay of the troops ought to be issued, not it the nominal, hut at the intrinsic velae of the rupee. Sir charles Dalbiae had also informed him, in a letter whiell he ImItl in his hand, that the Army- complained touch of the injustice which Ivas ilone them in this parti- cular, lie said that the troaps with which he %vent to Lelia were paid at the full rate befiwe leaving England, but when they arri..-,a1 in India they were paid in rupees valued at 2s. IV. each. Loud cemplaints were in consequence made ; awl Sir Charles added, that this was the only oc...:,ion on which he felt hine.elf in a slt within in whirl, ret eilieer ought to in pitied, because lie knew the justice of those complaints, while he had not the non yr to afford them re- dress. Now, it appeared to him, tIca in jostle,- to their galiant troops, who had ever distinguished themselves iii whatever :,-tvice they might have been engaged, this serious grievance ought to be redressed.
3Ir. MACAULAY' adalitted that there was a grievance, and he said the Board of Control and the East India Company were prepared to remedy it. Sir HENRY HADDINGE declared that it must be wrong to make the soldier take the rupee for 2s. 6d. when everybody else took it for 2s. or less.
Sir JOHN HORTIOUSE lwas adverse to the discussion of this question— This was a question in the agitation of which the greatest danger was in- volved. In VMS, a mutiny which lasted for tett days was the consequence, in India, of' similar agitation. If it were an injustice to pay the Queen's troops in India at the present rate, (which he contended it was not.) what an arrear must they not 'lay up ever since IS19, when the pivsent standard was esta- blished. So large would that arrear that he doaldel whether the East India Company e ver conld pay it. ITe &lied the justire of' the claim, how- ever, and he really saw nothing to complain of, The opinion of' Sir J. R. Carl= 11:.1 Is ciiCriwoilted by the Govo-nor-Getatal upon this point, and he deprecated strongly hoth the notion of a change and the agitation of the ques- tion.
Sir RICHARD JENKINS said, that Lord Hce.viek had sent out a war- rant to India without consulting the Court of Directors, who had una- nimously protested against it— The Court unanimously protested against the warrant, which would subject the troops of Bengal to a serious loss, would involve a dangerous change, anti aught prodtte.: the most disastrous consequences. TIM Court also wrote a letter to this effect, which formed the basis of a 11,T:itch. This proposal was to raise the allowances of' the troops at 31all'a■ :111.1 110:1111,1v to the standard which existed at Bengal. This despite!! 11;1,1 been sent out' fourteen months ago. The matter still remained unsettled ; but it was no fault of the Boards, who had done their duty. It therefore remained for her Majesty's Government and tor the House to la-mg, this matter to a t. emulation. Ile bt hoed that the rate existing at Bengal was considerably- above any thittg to which the soldier was entitled muter her Majesty's warrant, and left in favour of the soldier in the held the stun of 4(1. per day.
Sir JOHN Hointot-si; confirmed this statement. Lord HowicK said that his rarrant only consolidated former warrants; and he again con- tended that the soldier ought not to be charged 2s. 6d. and only paid 2s. Sir HEN RV II IIDIN■ ; E Stipp nrted Lord Howick. Sir ROBERT PEEL said, there ought to be ttvery full and distinct explanation why the difference in the valuation of die rupee was made.
The Committee rose, having agreed to vote the ninnber of men pro- posed by Mr. Macaulay ; to sit again on Wednesday.
WAlt wrrn CHINA.
On Thursday, Mr. 31.teuixxox asked Lord John Russell if there was any foundation for the prevalent report of a declaration of war against China?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL Ilad received no official intelligence of -a declara- tion of war— There had been directions given to tit,: Governor-General of' India to make certain preparations ; but no Milt ial iutelligence bail been received of them. He presumed that some directions isshed in consequence of these instructions had given rise to the assertion that a ,I5elaration of war had been issued. He spoken, however, only on conjecture.
Sir ROBERT PEEL, IlSSUIlling that some document tantamount to a delaration of war had been issued by the Governor-General of India, in consequence of' instructions from hee ...■Ltiesty's Government, wished to ask Lord Palmerston two question:—
First, whether, it war Wa.- pruclammd It would be carried on upon the
supreme authority of' this count r■, and the expense of the Elated Kingdom; and secondly, whether her 3Iajcsty's Government would bring down a message to Parliament, announciim that thee had resorted to hostilities ?
Lord PALMERSTON Said, that any communication which might take place with the Government of China would be in the name of the Queen of this country— Whatever as:istancc might lw afforded by the Governor-General to the operations which might be carriel on ill Chsinim, WORM e assistance lent to this country, under the rol, msibility of the Government of tlas country. With regard to the oilier question. it W.1, not at present the intention of her Ma- jesty's Covet-1111mM to send Jou n any MeSSage Ott that House. They had already laid papers on the table which showed the state of our relations with China.
Sir HOBERT PEEL desired to" know, whether, supposing war hail broken out with China, a formal message would be sent to the House— the position of the country having been changed since the renewal of the East India Company's charter? Lord PalmmisToN repeated, that any communication with China would be in the Queen's name, and not in the name of the Governor- General of India. Sir ROBERT PEEL said, that was the very reason why he put the question about the message—
In the ease of a war entered into by the Indian Government, and on its own account, he could iinderstand why there should be no mess!ige, because it would be ruled by precedent ; but in the case of a war entered into on account of the British Government, at the charge of the British Crown, and in the name of her Majesty—such being the state of things, he presumed that some formal communication i ication would be made to Parliament of so mportant a measure as hostilities having been resorted to.
Lord PALMERSTON reminded Sir Robert Peel, that he had used the word " communication," not " hostilities."
Mr. winos: PALMtilt asked whether any instructions had been given to the Superintendent at China, beyond those in the papers before the House?
Lord:PALMERSTON said, the instructions up to a certain period were among the papers. Those subsequently forwarded he could not be expected to produce.
Mr. Henums remarked, that the latest date of the papers, relating to the claims of compensation for opium, was the 13th of June : were there to be any addition to those papers ? or any further documents relating to the instructions sent to the Superintendent ?
Lord PAMERSTON said, he had already produced all the communica • tions relative to the compensation for opium. With regard to the second question, all the information had been laid upon the table which it appeared to him expedient to produce.
IRISH CORPORATION REFORM.
On Monday, Lord Moneurit moved the third reading of the Irish Munieh,a1 Bill.
Sir Emu*: SINCLAIR moved an amendment, to postpone the second reading for six months— He was impelled to address the house on this subject by a deep. and in- creasing persuasion—a persuasion not a little fortified by the menacing tone. assumed, and the ominous prophecies uttered in quarters of high authority—
that the Protestant institutions of Ireland, with which those of the empire stood inaissolubly linked, were in fearful and imminent jeopardy. He believed that the very force intended to maintain tranquillity was so organized as to increese thsir danger. On the part of the Roman Catholics they Wield com- bination, esergy, and success; whilst they too often finuid in the ranks of the Protestants dissension, suplia nes,, and discomfiture. Each victory achieved by the fernier was an encouragine precursor of some new aggression, whilst every defeat sustained by the later was the humiliating prelude to some fresh surrender. The potent screw of the 6,000,000 argument was as effectually wielded by the Roman Catholics as was that of the six Members' argument by an impelious beroughtnouger for the purpose of extorting an unreasonable boon 'from the hard-pressed Prime Minister of a former tem, whom he knew that he had at his mercy ; so that the Roman Catholics vere almost justified by the result or every past experiment in openly declaring to the Imperial Legis!siure—" Because we are six millions, we must obtain whatever we ask, demolish whatever we dislike, and accomplish whatever we desire." It must, ha thought, he admitted, that the Irish Tithe Bill, clogged as it was with so enormous a deduction from the incomes of the clergy, was wrung from their
fears and not conceded by their good-will. That deduction was rendered neces,ary by flea culpable pusillanimity of successive governments, who ought
to have enforc.d (as they would have done in the case of taxes, rents, or debts)
the might and majesty of the law. BO, though reluctantly assented to by the clergy, awl on that ground alone not opposed by himself, it WEIS in principle an act of sacrilegious injustite. They had been generous with other people's money ; and he was convinced that through sacrilices which cost them nothing they had only purchased a hollow and precarious truce, by which the Pro- testants of levland had been discouraged in the defence ot their not yet ex- tinguished rights and not yet confiscated property, while the Papists were stimulated to renew every menace, and persevere in every machinromn. No perm:went advantage was ever secured by worshipping the goddess Expediency, and a system of concession and compromise was seldom successful in the lung run.
He was determined not to strengthen, in any way, the hands of the Roman Catholic faction : he could not justify his past or present opposition to the bill on any other grounds— The state of Protestant feeling throughout this Protestant country was not fairly expressed or adequately represented in that house. He believed that the Protestants of Ireland were much less dismayed by the unscrupulous activity of th ir enemies than disheartened by the paralyzing apathy of their friends. The lamp of Protestant light would indeed burn with, a dim and feeble flame if it were not supplied from other sources—extraneous to the British Parliament —with the pure and holy oil of devotedness, zeal, and affection. Those who taxed him for giving utterance to those opinions with intolerance or exaggera- tion, indirectly charged our illustrious ancestors—the martyrs of Protestant truth and the victims of Popish tyranny—with all the rancour of bigotry and all the raslineso of fanaticism. Ills disappointment at the results which had flowed from the Roman Catholic Relief Act, was perhaps even more poignant than that of his right honourable friend who introduced that act in 1829, as the prefer:dile ulternative in a choice of evils. Ile, when first elected a Member of that limo, in 1811, declared himself a humble but zealous champion of that measure, as lisiug in itself a positive good. For the sake of contributing, as he fondly thought, to the welflire and happiness of Ireland, he forfeited the good- will of an anti-Catholic Cabinet, and gave np all hopes of personal advantage by voting iii flivour or Mr. Grattan'e motion in the spring of the following year. But he was compelled to acknowledge, with deep humiliation and regret, that not one of I.is predietions had been fulfilled, nor one of his expectations realized. And were such complaints peculiar to himself? Ile could not on this subject help alluding to a very striking contrast which he had seen illus- trated by multiplied examples. Ile had the honour to be well acquainted with many politicians, who, like himself, were from the earliest coinmencement of their public career most strenuous advocates of the Roman Catholic claims. Ile hail heard not a few of them lament the final error into which they were betrayed by promiaei and specious misrepresentations, and a still greater numbi r the grief and indignation at the extent to which solemn pledges had been broken sird fresh pretensions urged by t hose whose cause had been espoused, on the grottlid of their repeated asseverations that when the privileges then con- tended for hel heel' conceded, they would prekr no ulterior demands. On the other hand, Is! also knew many equelly conscientious and intelligent persons who mipo •ed hemc measures up to the latest moment, and be never found that one of t hem eN1Wril'Ilced the least compunction for the conduct which be pur- sued, or namiti•sted the slightest astonishment :tt the evils arising from the con- cessions %Odell he had deprecat,it mot resisted. Not one of them had ever exclaimed, " Well, I am really lost in wonder when I reflect upon my own Windless mid obstinacy : I am quite n.slitinted when I contrast the gratitude of the Roma,. Catholics towards their supporters, the abstinence of the priests from all interf. 'slice in the turmoil of .eular politics, the undisturbed tran- quillity. of Ireland, and the entire security of the Protestant Church, with all my gloomy anticipations and all may exaggerated fears." Mr. EMERSON TENNENT seconded the amendment. To support an assertion that the Roman Catholics, even in the Protestant town of Bet. fast, were about to take advantage of the Municipal Bill to create reli. gious discord and advance the objects of their sect, Mr. Tennent began to read an extract from the Belfitst Vindicator ; when the SPEAKER in. terfered, and stated, that it was " not competent to any Member to read a newspaper in that House." Mr. TENNENT said he was only about to read " a slip" as part of his speech. The SPEAKER rejoined, that ea Sill)" was equivalent to a newspaper. Lord Josue RUSSELL and Bit ROBERT PEEL agreed, that though it was contrary to the strict. rules of
the House to read newspapers, pamphlets, or reviews, yet. it would be drawing that rule too close to prohibit a Member from quoting passages applicable to the question under consideration ; and it was agreed that Mr. Tennent should read his extract from the Belfast paper.
This was the only incident of the debate. Mr. SHAW spoke in favour of the bill ; while Colonel PERCEVAL and Mr. MAXWELL protested against it. The House divided—
For the third reading 182 Against it :34 Majority 148 The bill was then read a third dine, and passed. On Tuesday, it was taken to the House of Lords ; read a first time on the motion of Lord Madwomen ; and ordered to be read a second time on Monday the 30th.
The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, on Tuesday, moved the ap- pointment of a Select Committee " to inquire into the effects pro.
duced on the Circulation of the country by various Banking establish. mitts issuing notes payable on demand.' Mr. Baring stated several reasons in favour of the proposed inquiry. The charter of the Bank
of England would expire in 1844, and it would be unwise to delay in. quiry into the expediency of renewing it until the latest period-1842. He would not make any attack -upon the Bank of England, the Joint Stock Banks, or the Private Banks, and proposed the Committee in a spirit the reverse of vindictive towards them all. But there was a very general feeling among intelligent perions who had given attention to time subject, that several points respecting the management of the Bank of England and the system of banking generally in this country required reconsideration by the Legislature. He would mention a question of the utmost importance that would come before the Committee, and out of the first points to which its attention ought to be called— As to the existence of a bank having any particular privileges; whether it would not. be more advisable to introduce the system called free banking; whether, if they conceded that a bank ought to exist, sufficient powers had been given to it for those functions which they expected a bunk to perform. And then again on the other side there was the question, whether it was advisable, at the present moment, to reconstruct the whole system and have but one bank of issue. These were questions which would be agitated in the Committee; to these questions the Committee would turn its most serious attention. He was well aware that they must give their consideration to this subject; but the house would recollect that the question was forced upon them, and before long they must consider it whether they wealth or not. It appeared to him, that m entering upon this inquiry, they would do so fully determined fairly to consider the subject, and obtain upon it the best information that they could, in order that they might themselves be fully informed, nod the public also might be fully Wormed. upon it, before they were called upon to legislate on a subject in which were involved the iuterests and the security of almost every man m the country.
At present there was a disposition among persons who held various opinions on these subjects, to discuss them calmly. With respect to the Bank of Ireland, the charter of which was now terminable at a year's notice--although, if he were to introduce a bill, it would be on the same principle as Lord Monteagle's to continue the charter to 1844, so that the expiry of the charters of the Banks of England and Ireland might be contemporaneous, and the policy of renewing them be con- s;dered together, he would wait for the opinion of the Committee before he introduced any measure respecting the Bank of Ireland's charter.
Mr. CISBORNE suggested that the inquiry should extend to banks not issuing notes as well as banks of issue. The operations of banks which procured advances from the Bank of England at 3 per cent., and lent Bunk of England notes so obtained at an interest of 5 or 6 per cent., must have a very material effect on the circulation of the country.
Mr. JOHN Ei,rts thought the Chancellor of the Exchequer ought not to delegate his duty to the Committee, so as to elude the responsibility of a measure for renewing the Bank of Ireland's charter.
Mr. Humn considered it essential to the usefulness of the inquiry, that the question whether the currency was on a sound basis or not, should be open to discussion in the Committee. He certainly enter' tamed a very different opinion now from that which he had formerly held on the subject of the currency of this country. He observed that in France, where the circulating medium had been almost entirely metallic since 1791, there bad been little variation in the exchanges, and much satisfaction on the part of the people. Since 1791 there had been only five pamphlets published in France on the subject of the currency ; whereas he had been informed that Mr. Richardson of Corn'
hill had himself published no fewer than two thousand pamphlets on the currency question within the last two years and a half Mr. Hume declared himself "almost a convert to having nothing but a metallic currency."
Mr. 011Orel expected much benefit from the appointment of the Com- mittee ; but be disagreed with Mr. Hume as to making the basis of the currency one of the subjects of inquiry. Mr. Hume's remark respect- ing the pamphlets published in France and England did not. prove the superiority of the French currency ; though it showed that the French
public had been debarred from the advantage of many suggestions pub- lished in England by gentlemen who had given their attention to the subject. One of the several advantages likely to arise from the inquiry, would be to disabuse the public mind of many errors now prevalent respecting the management of the Bank of England—
Ile thought that if the Bank of Englaud were found open to some censure, it would also by this censure be rescued from a great deal of undeserved vim- pinint ; and that it would be found that a great portion of our monetary diffi- culties had not been of their creation, though earlier and more prudential pm-
cautions on their part might have lightened. them. But if gentlemen were bound to explain what they meant by the Bank of England regulating the cur- rency that being understood, and that duty being imposed upon the Bank of Englea% d, they would be able to avoid for the future much of that vague de- clamation against it as a body of monopolists, by which the true merits of this question had been too often deviated from. - Mr. WOLVERLEY ArrwooD maintained that there was something
radically wrong in the whole system of the currency. He thought that the Chancellor of the Exchequer, on moving for the Committee, ought not to have withheld his own opinion on the currency question. Mr. Casa enforced the necessity of further inquiry before legis- lation.
Sir ROBERT PEEL recommended that the subjects of inquiry should be limited. It was more easy to talk of a comprehensive inquiry than to secure it— Let them limit their inquiry to the question whether there should be a limited responsibility attached to such banks, and let them make their report on that point. He (lid not think that Parliament could consent to an inquiry which had the currency for its basis, without leading many to suppose that the maintenance of the present system was no longer to be observed; and he, for ens, declared that, however plausible might be the reasons for entering upon such an investigation, Parliament had conclusively determined on a metallic currency, and on the present standard of value.
Mr. CHARLES WOOD, Mr. HAwEs, and Mr. TURNER anticipated good effects from the inquiry ; and Sir JOHN RAE REID declared that the Bank of England had not the slightest objection to it.
Motion for the Committee agreed to.
The bill for protecting the publishers of Parliamentary papers, en- titled "The Printed Papers Bill," was read a second time on Monday,
on the motion of Lord JOHN RUSSELL. Lord JOHN promised to con- sider sonic suggestions by Sir EnwanD SUCDEN, to prevent the publica- tion of matter defamatory of individuals in the papers printed by order of Parliament.
On Thursday, Sir FRANCIS BuRDErr presented a petition from Mr. G. Pearce, Mr. Howard's clerk, complaining of his inability to procure the means of subsistence, in consequence of his imprisonment by order of the House for breach of privilege, and praying that the House would provide him with the necessaries of life. Sir Francis said, he thought that Members would agree to a motion he intended to snake next day, that the petitioner be forthwith discharged, free of cost. [It appears that on Saturday last, the Sheriff being liberated, Mr. Bellamy pre- sented a bill to Pearce for his "eating, Sm." amounting to 4/. 19s. ; on non-payment of which, through inability, Bellamy stopped the sup- plies. Since that time, the prisoner has been furnished with food by the keeper of the Chequers Tavern in Abingdon Street, who takes his chance of loss or payment.] Lord JOHN Hesston. presented a petition from Messrs. Hansards, stating that they had been served with a new writ of inquiry for da- mages, and praying for the protection of the House.
Sir WILLIAM FOLLETT asked if another action had not been com- menced?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL replied that there had, and that the venue was laid in Hertfordshire.
The SPEAKER said, the Sergeant-at-Arms bad a communication to make to the House.
Sir William Gossett appeared at the bar, and informed the House, that
Four of its officers—namely, Charles Stein, William Bellamy, Lead, and John Mitchell, hail been served with notices of action on the behalf of Mr. Burton Howard. A writ had been issued against the Deputy-Sergeaut, but it had not been served. The Sergeant-at-Arms, on the 4th of February, received the Speaker's warrant for taking into custody Mr. Howard. That warrant was received between six and seven o'clock ; and upon its receipt Ile directed the officers to use their best exertions, and he desired them to go to the house of 11Ir. Howard, and see whether he was at home.
The ATTORNEY- C ENERAL rose to order. He doubted the expediency or propriety of the Sergeant-at-Arms proceeding with his statement at that time.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL suggested that the Sergeant should hand in the notice of action against himself. Which having been done, Sir EDWARD SUDDEN inquired of Lord John Russell, when be had first information of the notice?
Lord JOHN RUSSELL answered, only yesterday. He mcved that the Subject be taken into consideration on Friday.
Motion agreed to.
THE NEWPORT CONVICTS.
Mr. LEADER, on Tuesday, moved an address to the Queen. praying her Majesty, under the special circumstances of the case, to grant e free pardon to Frost, Williams, and Jones— He did not make this motion from any sympathy in the acts for which these men had been tried, nor on the merits orthe. case, ;tor on the ground that they hail not deserved punishment, but because, in his opinion, the law bad been strained against the prisoners; because there had been a dould—and trhere there was is doubt, especially on political offences, it should be interpreted in favour of the accused. There was a strong feeling in the country on this sub- ject.; a greater number of petitions had been presented on it than on any other subject this session—the number of petitions had been 92, and the number of signatures upwards of 120,000. The feeling prevailed not amongst the upper Or middling classes, but amongst the working clits.ies, from a bellet that the law had been strained and justice had not been done to the prisoners. The law should be administered as it was laid down, and not as expounded by judges in particular cases.
Mr. Leader briefly stated the circumstances of the trial, which hal induced the Ministers of the Crown to recommend a mouraumtion of sentence from death to transportation. He contended, that if the diffi- culty on the point of law was good for a commutation of punishment, it was good for a free pardon also. Mr. Roam, while condemning the conduct of the prisoners, agreed with Mr. Leader that they were entitled to a free pardon as clearly as to a commutation of their sentence.
Mr. Fox MAULE regretted that the question had been brought before the House. He went over the principal facts of the ease ; maintaining that the prisoners had suffered no injustice, and that their lives having been forfeited, it was an act of clemency to commute the sentence to banishment for life, lie never knew an instance in which a condemned The Marquis of LANsDowxE, on Tuesday, called the particular at- tention of the Lords to a petition which spoke the opinion of twelve hundred medical practitioners on the state of vaccination, anti the ne- cessity of taking measures to prevent the spread of the smallpox in England— They attributed the ravages which the smallpox bad occasioned in many parts of the country, to the recklessness with which persons not regularly con- nected with the medical profess:0o, and not entitled to practise, were in the habit of inoculating for that disorder. They contended, that vaccination was a certain preventive of smallpox; and they allegel that the t-vu distrders, cow- pox and smallpox, were perfectly identical, though different in their operation, because it was found that if a cow were inoculated with variolus matter, the result was not smallpox, but cowpox. If sometimes smallpox visited parties who had been vaccinated, that was proved to have ict ii from a defect in the matter used; and it was suceessfully established, that in all thost cases the disease assumed a very mild form, and death was very rarely known to ensue from it. The changer arising from inoculating for smallpox was evident from the report which had been recently made on Hie subject. From this it ap- peared, that in the lust year 500 persoua had died of smallpox in a city in the South of England, where vaccinatiou was not encouraged. Ile was the last person to propose orders or restrictions with reference to a subjort of tl.:. kind; but the petitioners, whose opinion 11: was speaking proposed that penalties should be inflicted on persons inoculatin• for the sina'llpox, and that measures should be taken for extending more effectually the practice of vaccination. These were points which he conceived were well worthy the attention of their Lordships. He would impress on the higher classes of society the necessity of discoura.ging, by every means in their power, a practice—that of inoculating for smallpox—by which so great an amount of misery and wretchedness was created ; and of encouraging vaccination to the utmost extent, by %Sikh finally they might hope to extinguish one of the greatest pests of humanity.
Lord ELLENEOROUGH suggested that the olject of the petitioners might be effected by adding a clause to the Poor-law, to eneble the Guardians of the Poor to Custer into a contract with the medical men of the respective 'Unions to vaccinate the children of the poor. Lord COLCHESTER said, that in kis port of the country, where none were inoculated and all vaccinated, noi.ode died of the smallpox.
Lord ELLENnonouon made a sL remark in reference to his neighbourhood.
The Marquis of NORMANDY promised attention to the subject, and the petition was laid on the table.
Ott Thursday, Lord EimENnono;n:n said he hod prepared a bill giving powers to the Guardians of Poor-law Unions to insure vaccina- tion in their respective districts. It was so framed as to be easily ex- tended to Ireland.
The Marquis of NORMANDY had no ollection to the principle of the bill, but before sanctioning the details, wished to consult persons more conversant with the subject than himself. I lad the bill no reference to Scotland ?
Lord ELLENDOROUGH had found great difficulty in applying the mea- sure to Scotland. The only local bodies to whom its execution could be confided seemed to be the Kirk-Sessions Lord HADDINGTON thought with Lord Ellenhorough, that it was not advisable to charge the Kirk-Sessions with die execution of the bill ; but if it worked well, machinery for Scotland could be devised.
Bill brought in, and read a first time.
EAST AND WEST INDIA PRODUCE.
L0111 SEAFORD, on Thursday, presented a petition from West India proprietors resident in London. stating the injury they must sustain from a relaxations of the existine dulLs Cm East India produce. to,l. pray- ing that they nliglit be 11.„tr a by miinesel sects an al:erat : from the high price ot labour consequent upo:i the enlancipation of the elaves, they laboured under heavy disiulvanteges. and stood in need of all the protection the Mother-on:1m.y COLlia bestow. Lord Seaford moved that the petition be referred to the Select Committee now &mine: on the duties on East India produce.
Lord ELLENDOROUGH, on the other hend, presented a petition from Glasgow, praying for a reducer on of the duties on the produce of the East Indies.
Both petitions were referred to the Committee.
TILE HonsE-Ramsn Bum, ietro.nanl by the Duke of 11 icumosD into the I louse of Lords, psicil rapidly through that House. and reached the Commons on 'Monday. It was read a first time on that day, a second tissue on Tuesday ; committed on Thursday ; and reed a third time and passed last night.
LIGHTING THE HOL'SE. It was agreed, on Thursday, by a vote of 136 to $6 on Lord ELIOT'S lilotiCul, to meke another experiment of the Bude light.
HEALTH 4.1F Lanox TOWNS. Mr. Smaxiiv carried the appointment of a Select Committee to inquire into the circumstances affecting the health of large towns.
Flitter Fnurrs AND TENTHS. The House refused to allow the re- port on Mr. Baines's Committee to be brought up, by a vote of 54 to 46.
criminal and his family did not feel grateful for a commutation of pu- nishment from death to transportation.
- Mr. THOMAS DUNCOMDE contended, that the prisoners were not executed because there was a point of law in their &your ; and that if they could not be legally executed, they could not be transported legally. Dr. LUSHINGTON was prepared to say that the sentence, as carried into effect against these men, was consonant to law, justice, and public expediency. Ile contended that the practice of reviewing the decisions of the Courts in Parliament was most inconvenient, and that the grounds for commuting judicial sentences ought not to be canvassed in the House of Commons.
Mr. WAKLEY hoped Mr. Leader would not divide the House on his motion, in the absence of the counsel for the prisoners—Sir Frederick Pollock and Mr. Kelly ; for he would only injure the prisoners by that course.
Mr. LEADER saw no force in Mr. Waltley's objection to divide the House, after going through the forms of a debate. A division therefore took place; and the motion was rejected by 68 to 5.