liftbatet an practrtfingtin /3 adiament.
• IRISH CORPORATION REFORM.
lathe House of Commons, on Monday, Lord Joins Rotuma. moved the third reading of the Irish Municipal Bill.
Honourable gentlemen opposite, passionate and prejudiced as they were, would desecrate the very cradle in which their infant creed was first blessed and nursed. The Protestants . how little would they be recognized by their forefathers, wheu they said the creed of Rome can floutish aoadst free institutions, but the more sickly faith of Calvin or Luther could never endure the stormy atmosphere from which a free government derives its vitality and its vigour. But the standard of Protestantism was to be unfurled; and honourable gentlemen might he certain that the people of England would not recognize their colours. Their Protestantism would appear little better, after all, than a kind of bastard Popery, which they had stolen from the middle ages. He repeated the term; for all that the most stupid adherents of the Church of Rome would have made that church in most barbarous times, they, in the nineteenth century, were for making the Church of England. Yes, they were arraying against Protes- tantism the very causes which brought Catholicism to th gi [mod. Papal despotism had been trampled under foot in many cf the first and freest states of Christendom, because the proud prelates of that haughty faith would have
trampled under their feet every species of *color right which interfered with
their own authority. And what was now said ? what was now contended for? Why, that some of the hest fruits of civil liberty should not be allowed to ap- pear in Ireland, because it was feared lest they should int.., fere with our Church
dominion in this country. Tills was arraying against Protestantism the causes which once laid Catholicism low.
He would ask Sir Robert Peel (Sir Robert Peel just then entered the House) a simple question— Was it true that the right honourable baronet said, at no dist:mt time, and on a great public occasion, that however he might venerate and respect the authority of the House of Lords, yet still these were not the times when the House of Lords could wage a successful contest with the majority of the Representatives of the People ? If he had said this, how could he recon- cile it with the conduct which he was then countenancing and pursuing ?— a conduct which brought the House of Lords into a conflict, which the right honourable baronet had the foresight to see could not be successful, with a majority of the House of Commons. There was one way in which, accord- ing to his friends, Sir Robert might escape tiom this dilemma: they said, " You don't know Sir Robert Peel—he sees that the Irish Corporation Bill must pass; and when he comes into office, then he will IMO something in the shape of a Tithe-bill if he can, and after that he will say, now the Church ir, you see, in a little fierier condition, and I'll consent to pa-sins the Corporation Bill." If Sir Robert did mean to pursue this course, it would be fair now to avow it. But at ad events, he stood in this unpleasant predicament at the pre- sent tune—according to himself he was periling the et-minty, and according to his friends he was deceiving it. Mr. GOULBURN rose to oppose the motion; and delivered a long speech, in a very thin House, to prove that the bill of last session, as. amended by the Lords, was in every respect superior to the present measure, calculated as it was to overthrow the EstablishedChurch. This was his main reason for voting against it ; but he also strongly objected to the course taken by Ministers, as tending to place the two Houses of Parliament in a very undesirable position.
A long debate ensued; but the speeches were for the most part de- void of novelty and interest, and the attendance was barely sufficient to "make a House." At one time fewer than a dozen Members occupied the Opposition benches.
Mr. G. HAMILTON and Colonel VERNER spoke against the bill. It was supported by Mr. TANCRED, Mr. IL DILLON BROWNE, Mr. BEL. LEw, and Mr. HENRY BULWER. Mr. Mimi:a reproached the Oppo- sition with libelling the Protestant faith, when they declared that the establishment of free institutions endangered its existence—
After Mr. H. Bulwer sat down, the gallery was cleared for a divi- sion ; but none took place, for
Lord STANLEY rose and addressed the House ; remarking upon its desolate appearance when so important a question was under discus- sion. He said that be Was quite sure Sir Robert Pecl would never bring forward a measure in office which he was not pi visored to sanction when proposed by his opponents. For himself lie would say, that it he saw the Church in a more seem position, many of his objections to the establishment of municipal corporations in Ireland would be removed. He stated objections to many of the details of the bill; pointing out the put Cs in which it differed from the English and Scotch Municipal Acts. He concluded by repeating, that if the Chinch were placed on a secure footing, he might concede municipal institutions to Ireland, but not before.
Mr. HENRY GRATTAN and Mr. WOULFE (the Attorney.Gencral for Ireland ) followed, in defence of the bill. Mr. 1V0111 FE observed, that Lord Stanley had paved the way for a retreat upon this question- " Ile * tym he is not opposed to the establishment of cot pm at ins in Ireland in proper ti iii' ; hilt this, lie says, is not the time. This at least admits the principle of the measure, and saves his inconsistency if he should hereafter bring it forward. It is for the noble lonl to say, having udiiiitted the pris- elide, why this is not the time, or when the time will e II, pity., when the Church queations ale adjusn.sl. But when are tiny to lie adjosted ?—and is it not the doettine of the honourable Members who, sit near him teal they never can be adjuaied ? Is it not their ereed that the Catholics are insa fable and never will be satisfied till the Church lw actually uprooted ? Whim, then, will the Church be put into that state which the noble lord considers :1% necess nary to sanction the present measure? Awl how ale we to know that it 1 come ? Why did he out explain what that state was, that we might clams the fulfilment of hi* plumise when it was achieved? As it st imk. the noble lord may, or may not, at any future time support the present "'comic, a. he rhowes• When reproached by one party or the other, either for to naging it forward or opposing it, all he has to guy is either that the timelier pi has not come." Mr. SPRING BICE said, it Wes POW admitted that the questiem.of graining monicipal institutions to Ireland was one of time only—of expediency; for the principle was conceded by the Opposition-- "They will not allow us to have the credit of it. They will not allow us to congratulate Members upon the fact, that having given Municipal Reform to England and to Scotland, we should also give it to Ireland. 'I hey will not suffer us to carry the bill ; but it will be carried : it is only a question of time __they are prepared to carry it—they have avowed it. (Load chesring.) It lehnitted in the speech of my noble friend the Member for Newel: Lancaihine _the honourable Member .far the University of Cambridge has avowed and etelared it—this very hill will be carried for the benefit of the people of Ireland; but it is not to be carried by us, but by them." But would the tesult he the same if the bill were carried by the gentlemen opposite ? Were ti ey.prepared to go on still in. the .steps which they had been so long treading, oppoffing mea- sures one day and carrying them the next ? Were honourable gentlemen who flocked down to record their votes against this measure to-night, prepared for what was even then preparing for them ? Were they aware, that though they were called down now to oppose this measure, they might be called down soon to *stilt in carrying it ? (Loud and ironical cries of" Hear !") Were there ever such arguments, such slipping, shifting argmente, as those wh.ch had been urged against the principle of the measure ? The present time was not the pro- per time; under existing circumstances it was not convenient ; but "let us see," eried the noble Member fur North Lancashire, "what we can do with the Church, and then we will attend to the Corporations." It sholild be borne in mind by Members who espoused this sort of argument, that this was the third time such a measure as this was before the House, and that those who now dis- envered that the Irish Church was endangered by it had not taken that view of the cage in the first instance. It was two years since this measure was hefore the House; if danger now threatened the Church of Ireland, it threatened it equally then ; vet what gentleman opposite, or what noble lord lo another place, suggested any 'danger of the kind on that occasion? The magui- fyiug-glaeses of the right honourable baronet the Member for Cumberland no doubt must have enabled him to have foreseen this alleged danger to the Church. ( Opposition cheers.) Ile responded to those cheers, and admitted that the right honourable baronet was the most far-sighted gentleman in that House ; but he lia.1 not used his magnifying. glasses in the first instance.
Mr. Rice went on to remark upon several of the objections commonly urged against this bill ; but the passage we have extracted was the only 0112 that seemed to make any impression.
Mr. Stem said, that the real difference between the two parties in the (louse was simply this—his friends were willing to abolish the exclusive privileges of the Corporations, but the Ministers wished to transfer them. Amidst almost incessant interruption, Mr. Shaw con- tended. that the Government neglected its duty by introducing such questions tie those of Municipal Reform and Tithes, instead of mea- sures really calculated to benefit the suffering people of Ireland.
Mr. O'CoNeeee rose, but there were loud cries of " Divide " and " Withdraw ;" in the midst of which, Mr. BROTHERTON moved that the debate be adjourned.
'lite House divided : for the adjournment, 286; against it, 23'2; Miaisterial majority for adjournment, 34.
Coloinel SIBTFIORPE expressed his surprise that Lord John Russell should have sanctioned the motion for adjournment. Lord John was litre it drunken —(Laughter)—no a drowning. he would not say, rat, but a drowning person catching at straws. He really thought that the noble lord had been a person of greater magnanimity than to have de- scended to such a subterfuge as the adjournment of the debate. (('ries cf,, Question ! ") Colonel Sibthorpe said that he was speaking to the question.
The Sreesiot said, the question was that a bill on the table be en- grossed.
Colonel SIBTHORPE sat down with the observation, that the sooner Miiiisters were out of their places, the better.
Mr. Heste °pewl the adjourned debate on Tuesday. He con- tended that the 'furies were altogether mistaken in supposing that they benefited the Church by refusing Corporate Reform to Ireland. For his own part, he trusted that he should live to see the day when there would Inc no such thing as Church property. As for the Aristocracy, they were evidently resolved upon hastening their own downfal by every means in their power.
Mr. A I:1MM TREVOR and Mr. GAILY INTGHT opposed the bill.
Mr. ("CONNELL appealed once more to the Legislature of the United Kingdom to give to Ireland equal political rights with Eng- lend iiial Scotland
No government could be unjust and strong.at the same time. They might try exp.:riuients by then pretencea—by the aid of religious bigotry, national amipially, and individual malevolence. But individual malevolence was so pair it 11.4 ve to action that it could not be admitted as an argument. National autipathy was, indeed, the principle upon which those persons had to long aetial wino opposed good government for Ireland. To what extent had it been earried hi another House? There had been added insult to injury, which neve' e mid be sufficiently reprobated. Now he did not think that this was a prudent eourse to take. The .persons who Acted thus were moreage in in- imiiugiiit the rights of the Irish people than they could be by intlictinginsults upon them.
He took a rapid survey of the past. The debates on Corporate Reform in both Houses proved that there still existed a bitter feeling of hatred towards Ireland in the breasts of many of the Opposition leaders. It was out of the power of the Legislature, perhaps, to stifle those feelings, but the system which arose out of them might at least he put alsend to. Take away the grievances of Ireland, and he should cheese places with his present adversaries: they would become strong
hill' ha should become weak—
Whilst it wits denied that either the Church or the Corporations as at pre-
sent canatituted was a grievance, his power must continue. He stood there for pea ice to Irelaud—he mired not with what tibaldry he was met. He had With him this fact—England had reform, Scotland had reform, Ireland had not termini. Even in the measure of Parliamentary Reform he had raised his voiee iii vain to obtain for Ireland as large a reform as was given to England mid to Still land. Again he raised his voice, and entreated that his country might lie placed on the same footing in regard to municipal corporations as &KWH! and Scotland. To those who eatleavoured to withhold the boon he imoohil only say, Your paltry corporatious, the last remnant of your tyranny sod opine:whin, may give you a temporary protection; but I tell you emphati. tally, that seven milhons of Irishmen will not endure them long. The elders imainao 113 may bear with it, because we have been bred up in servility ; but there Is young and violent blood in Ireland which will not long submit to the Vtauoy practised upon ourselves sud our fathers."
Mr. Fleets opposed and Mr. WILLIAM Room spoke in favour of !‘ the bill.
Colonel THOMesoN said, that one important point bad not been glanced at in the discussions,—namely. how, in the event of a contest which the Tories seemed resclved to force on, the " young blood" of England might happen to view the case— That House ought not to make itself too sure of being a rigid criterion of • all the feelings and sentiments existing in the country. For his own part, it had often happened to him to be astonished at discovering the under current of opinion on Irish affairs which came to light when thoughts were declared with- out disguise. If the irritation to Ireland were persevered in, there were two threats that would be heard of from that conntry,—first, Repeal of the Union; and if that would not do, Separation. He did not believe either of these events would be viewed with all the horror by every portion of the community, which honourable gentlemen opposite might calculate on. It was no secret, that the inclinations of large, and whet would be influential, classes in this country, were setting strongly towards republican institutions. For his own part, were be to attempt to define with exactness the political party to which he considered himself as belonging, he should say it was to that party, a very strong one at the period of the Revolution, and than whom there had bees no more faithful and unflinching supporters of that great alteration, which might be called the Republicans under compact ; by which he meant, men who, having no more doubt of the inherent superiority of Repub- lican institutions than they have of a straight line being the shortest distance between two points, are still willing to concede to the wish of the majority, and engage to discharge all the duties of citizens under a monarchical government; and he bad yet to learn in what portion of those duties they laal failed. With these sentiments, lie could not hut be a keen observer on the subjeat, and there- fore be could say from his own observation and knawledge. that a desire for Republican institutions was progressing. more rapidly in fact he feared than writ accompanied by knowledge. But with this before them, would gentlemen os the other side believe, that a large party in this country would not he rather gratified than otherwise, by the appariti.n of an Irish republic, if the Irish were driven to it ?
Mr. CHARLES VILUEnS said, that the old bigoted Tory party still hoped to reduce the majority of sixty Members, which stood between them and the reestablishment of the Asceudancy policy. There could be no doubt, from the tenor of the speeches of Tory Members, and the constant efforts of the party out of doors, that the Tories were only lying in wait for an opportunity to repeal the three grand mea- sures of Catholic Relief, Municipal Reform, and Parliamentary Re- • form. They hoped to do this by a revival of the old No-Popery cry, which had been of such service in former times, and ohich they now raised again in all its ferocity.
Lord FRANCIS EGERTON denied that be, Or those with whom he acted, felt hostility to Catholics as such ; or that they wished to repeal the Emaucipation Act,—although lie admitted with regret that wetly of the evil consequences, which those who opposed chit measure pro- phesied would arise from it, had occurred, while of the benefits ex- pected from it scarcely tiuy were visible. He denied that the present bill was called for by the people of Ireland ; for, of the forty-seven towns proposed to be incorporated by it, only twenty-three had sent up petitions in its favour.
Lord MORPETII professed himself quite at a loss to conceive how the interests of the Established Church could be endangered by this measure. It interfered in no way with the revenues, the doctrines, or the clergy of the Church. As to the people of Ireland being indif- ferent to this measure, he begeed to refer Lord Francis Egerton te the address, with -230.600 signatures, presented a short time ago to the King in its favour. It was said that the 5/. franchi,e was too low; but Lord Morpeth read a table which proved, aat to adopt the IOC franchise, would grievously curtail the constitueney in many consider- able towns. III Athlone, for instance, a ith a population of I la4kt6, the 101. householders were only 137 ; and in Waterford, with inhabitants, only 614.
Sir JANIEF; GRAHAM eNpressed Iris deep regret, that in the discussion of this question, religion had been mixed up with political considera- tions; and he could scarcely furhear exclaiming, with the Latin poet, Tatum religio potnit suadere main= He admitted, however, that as reearded his own opposition-to the bill, danger to the Church was the cardinal point by which he was guided. He read some resolutions passed by the Natioeal Association in favour of the total extinction of tithes; and a passage from Mr. O'Connell's letter to Mr. Beaumont,—Mr. O'Connell being the main prop of she Ministry,—to the effect that, until there was a perfect religious equality among all sects in Ireland. that country never could be traequil. These showed that his apprehensions of danger to the Church were well founded. Although Catholie Emancipation bad been granted on the solemn declaration of the Catholics that the rights of the Church should be held sacred, yet war to the knife was note declared against the Establishment. His objeetion to the present measure was that it would promote the designs of the enemies of the Church ; but once put the Establishineet in a position of security, and he would not refuse to the Irish the privilege of tree municipal institutions, to which he ad- mitted they had it prism/fie:it- claim.
Lord Jone Resseta, was not surprised that the gentlemen opposite
were desirous of having the debate closed on the previous night. for IL more embarraesing situation than that in which these gentlemen had placed themselves he could not imagine. Formerly they had contended for the total abolition of corporations, hut now they had wisely aban- doned that position, and allowed that if certain thin were done, cor- porations ought to be established. T be areuments. however, by which they supported the former proposition, completely pAral■ zed theta- which they now used; and hence the very awkward position in which they found themselves. He thought that, after his former speeches, Sir JemesGrahain would have done well to avoid allusi an to the practiee of mixing up religious consideration in the d be-us:sloe of political subjects— If indeed any one had brought forward religions matter. it had been the tight honourable gentleman hinnieff who had done so. lit, would ask n hat was the meaning of the pasaege which the right 110110U1abie baronet read from a }tamer let giving a deseliption of the Spanish priesthood WI a Itntl/e1 uceasione he, or did he not, mean to apply that paragraph to the pi 'eras of Ireland ? And he would say, if he did so for this purpose. was it fair to make this sot t of wholesale accusation against the priest* of six millions of people, and then give them o solemn lecture oat the impropriety of mixing up leligiou with politics I)
Though the debate .wes threadbare, one of Sir Janice Graben:1's taunts, that the blinietry existed by the support of Mr. O'Connell, was still more threadbare— -
Undoubtedly, when a Ministry Wit suimurted by no very considerable ma- jority—( Cheers from the Opposition henehes)—and yet not in the position of bouourable gentlemen opposite, who were left every night in a minority when in power.,—If any portion of those who voted usually with them were to vote against them, the case must be altered, and then they must have lost the con- fidence of the House. It appeared that the honourable and learned Member for Kilkeony supported them ; but it also appeared that a section of that side of the House consisted of the oldest Whigs, who, if they thought the Govern. ment were disposed to deal too violently in going the downward path, must be- come their opponents,—which would be equally fatal to the present Minis- try. What was there, then, in this taunt of the right honourable gentle- man as to the smallness of the majority in favour of the Ministry? What did it amount to but this—that the honourable and learned Member for Kilkenny, although he did not agree with the Govertonent in many of their opinions,. nevertheless thought it right to give them his independent support, because he saw in their measures a better prospect for the futureefate of Ireland?
Ile knew that gentlemen opposite were in the habit of meeting and settling their differences ; and if rumour were to be credited, at some of those meetings the more violent section prevailed over the moderate men of the party. There was a rumour of this description during the crisis of the Reform Bill, when Lord Wharncliffe and Lord Har- rowby were compelled to give way, and ppose the bill, which they wished to go on with. The present Ministers were often compelled to resist measures introduced and supported by gentlemen who sat on their side of the House— Suppose the hnnouruble Member for Middlesex coming down to the House some day, as he was likely to do, to propose a motion tor household suffrage, lie (Loud John Rus,ell) would immediately get up in his place and oppose it. It was notorious they differed from the honourable getitlemau whom he bad named ; yet, of course, he did not yield his opinions to those of the Govern- ment, and they went together generally upon those questions which the Go- vernment thought proper to adopt. But while it might be the better course for the moderate men of the Tory party to agree with the more violent, in order to maintain the appearance Of union, he thought tire Ministers' course to the full as honourable; arid, as he believed, it would tend more finally to the advantage of the country.
Lord John argued, that the Act of Catholic Emancipation bound the Legislature to secure the admission of Catholics to corporate pri- vileges; end be quoted parts of that Act, which clearly proved that such must have been the intention of its framers and of the Parliament that passed it— To refuse the admission of Roman Catholics into municipal corporations in Ireland, under the apprehension and plea that they would exercise 4 dangerous supremacy, was to contract the letter and spirit of the act. Talk of Roman Catholics not keeping faith l—what faith were the opponents of this bill keep- ing, in excluding Roman Catholics from corporations and municipal power? In 1:19, they said they were admitted to corporate offices; and yet, when tile question cattle for their admission accordingly, it was urged that they could not be admitted !
The parties who spoke of threatened danger to the Church from the establishment of free municipal institutions in Ireland, created the danger they apprehended. The real danger to the Church consisted in its being dissented from by an immense majority of the people, who were rapidly acquiring wealth and intelligence ; and unless the majo- rity could be reduced to a state of hopeless bondage, the privileged minority never could be regarded as quite safe. But they were told,— vaguely, however, even by _Lord Stanley, who was generally clear and explicit, though harsh in his lariguage,—that if the Church were placed in a secure position, the objections now urgt d against the Corporation Bill would not be insuperable. What was the danger to the Church ? whence did it arise ?
It was this—that the General Association in Ireland had three months ago entered into certain resolutions of a hostile character towards the Established Church. (Laughter and cheers.) Why. whatever bill were introduced upon the subject, what power had the Government of the day to prevent meetings at Dublin at which similar resolutions might not be agreed to, and upon which gentlemen so timid as those opposite might not found an argument that the Church was not perfectly secure? Yet according to the statement tif Lord Stanley, until the Chinch' in Ireland was pi rfectly secure—until there were no resolutions, no opinions expressed ay,ainst it—it would he totally impossible for him to agree to a measure of municipal refoini. (Laughter and cheers.)
He had stated on a former occasion, that if he could see any mode of settling the Tithe and Church questions in Ireland, in such a way as to give satisfaction to the Irish and to both Houses of Parliament, no false pride on his part should induce him to refuse his support to such a plan
To that declaration lie still adhered ; but he naist at the same time say, that the difficulties in the way of any measure that should be agreeable to both Houses of Pathament, and also satisfactory to the people of Ireland, were im- mune. Ile rind now express an opinion upon this subject, to which he could not refer without sorrow, because it was an opinion that the difficulties they had then to encounter were still greater than those with which they had had to rontene in former days : his opinion was, that if a bill similar to that of last year were now to be sent up to the House 41 Lords, and to be passed by their Lordships in exactly the same shape as presented to them' it would not have the effect of producing complete and final satisfaction in Ireland. ALd his opinion also was, that if the House of Commons were to accept, clause for elsuse and word for woid, the bill sent down to diem froni the House of Lords, that bill would not produce final awl complete security to the Church in
He did not consider that the Church question or that of Poor.laws for Ireland was at all mixed up with the question of Municipal Re- form— " I tell you that I consider this question of tire establishment of reformed municipal corporations in Ireland to be a just and wise naeabure,—a measure likely to conciliate the uffeilions of the people of Ireland towards the general government of this country, and by so noich dindniehing the danger to any of the institutions of the land. I say further, that it is a measure which is good in itself. I say it is a measure which the present Ministry have brought forward from a strong conviction of its justice. That conviction is increased from the manner in which it has been received in this House. The Proposition for the abolition of corporations in Ireland has been negatived by SO large a majority of the Hoeft of Commons, that I hardly expect it to be brought ferward again. On the other hand, I look forward with confidence to the triumphant IsetUe of the question, sure that if you grant it now fully and generous!:., you will meet with that support and gratitude which a measure 60 giVeD, and WI such a spirit, has a right to command. But if you delay to give fidence that the measure will still be carried—I feel the same coolidenee that the right honourable gentleman opposite w ill vote for it ; but I do trot teel the same confident.* that it would produce the same good feelings awl the satee good effects in Ireland." (Loud and long-continued cheering.) Sir ROBERT PEEL sincerely hoped, that the two or three graitlerneie whose absence the House deplored on the previous night, and in stmt. pliment to whom, the debate being entirely finished, the division postponed, were then present, and would enable them fluruily to dis. pose of the question— He felt, however, that it was not entirely owing to the absence of two er three gentlemen that the reluctance to divide was last night manifested. Re bad entertained his suspicions upon the subject before he heard L0141 John Rua. sell' a speech; and these suspicions were fully confirmed when in the net. se of his observations he found the noble lord so pointedly referring to the ing disunion between himself and the honourable Member or Middle-ex iyon the subject of household suffrage. (Laughter and cheers.) Vi'lleil he foetid . on referring to the Votes, that the first notice of motion for the Ilth of A1ru41 was given by the honourable Alember for Middlesex for leave to Mitre in to extend the present suffrage to household suffrage, he knew perfeeitil,y0.:.iue:. .,, l411.:
one of the motives for adjourning the debate was to prevent that being brought forwaid.
There lied been only one novelty in the course of the debate ; and that was the attempt of Mn. Villiers to get up the cry of the " lieferm
Bill in danger " against that of the " Church in danger," of irl.leh latter it was said the Opposition Members unfairly availed th
and Mr. Grattan had read a passage from a Dublin newspaper, wheal imputed to him a design of repealing the Catholic Relief 13.11. Now, really, he thought that Mr. Grattan, being a Member of the Dense, might take his (Sir Robert's) own declarations as the indications of his opinions, instead of anonymous paragraphs in the Dubliu jotirusls. Mr. Grattan had likewise read extracts from his former sat wiles. That was rather unfair—but lie would not retaliate ; Mr. Guinan *eight rely upon it that Sir Robert would never read extraets flow his speeches. But tile charge was, that he intended to repeal the .aitini- cipal Corporation Act, mid the Parliamentary Reform Act, as well as the Catholic Relief Bill- Atall events, he bad no intention to propose the repeal of the Municipal Bill, because, if the Municipal col poratione continued in the same change of opedoris that had distinguished them for the last year or two, they would enorily lrorse good Conservativehodie.4. ( Laughter and cheers ) Then with req...., in the l'*at liamentary Reform Bill, who un that side of the House had proposed it. rept d? Who had proposed even to modify it? He had not heard one single aosek wale either upon the principle or the details of the Parliamentary lt, form Bill, except from the honourable gentlemen who sat on the Ministerial si4e el the House. So far from being satisfied with the " great charter" of their Weer- ties—so far from being pleased even with the bilOtt experience they had just had of it—the book upon the table was pregnant with notices on the put of
the usual supporters of the Government to repeal essential and fundameetal
parts of it. ( Cheers from the Opposition.) He spoke not of sin:oil:awe questions, such as Household Suffrage, Vote by Ballot, Annual Pailiaeelits, end the like, but of motions directly mid vitally affecting the epeci .1 pi ,,,eiales of the Reform Bill. Nut one of those notices of motion had been gin Hata the Opposition side of the House: they bad all been given by those in la, ere- • fussed themselves most friendly to the principle of the Reform Bill. Se leach for the argument cf the honourable Member for Wulverhaintron. It only served to convince him that the constituency of that good town were som,Si nit uneasy and restless, and that it therefore became necessary for the
gentleman who represented them to raise these bugbears, in order if pessible to frighten them into a continued support of him.
He felt that the subject before the House was an exhausted one,
but still be felt bound to state the grounds on which be rested his opposition to it. He objected to it on its abstract metit..—ae a sell ur e of local government for Ireland. The principleof local self.errvern- ment was carried by the bill to an unwise extent ; and the a/ hold franchise, unaccompanied with the paymeet of taxes. es...,1 ire an insufficient test of the competency of a constituency. "lso sot.' d other points of detail he also stated objections. He then erie menl to some retnarke made by Mr. Henry i3ulwer the night before, on his imputed intention to carry the measure he now opposed— The observations of the honourable Member ran to this effect—" There is
one way in which, according to his friends, the right honourable Immo t in girt
escape from this dilemma. They said, you don't know Sir Rubel t Peel ,• he sees that the Irish Corporation Bill must pass, and when he conies imo ruffle, then he will pass something in the shape of a tithe bill if he can; and after that he will say, 'Now the Church is, you see, in a better condition ; wev I'll consent to passing the Corporation Bill.' " He should like to ask the hen sir. able gentleman, who were those frienda of his whom the honourable geoth in in heard make these assertions? He should like to know what there prosild■ was in his past conduct that could entitle friends of his to give him credit he smcn& course of proceeding ? The Immutable gentleman supposed,—or nit least Sir It. Peel's friends who communicated with the honourable gentleinale—that he meditated in effect to pass this bill. He did not hesitate to say, that lienevet ed he anticipated the passing. of this bill, or that he contemplated the. prob the passing of the bill as It stands' or that he spoke of the probribidty p this bill as it stands, in case he became a confidential adviser of the Goa fie nil not scruple to say that, if be did think so, it would be more taciliroldemn his part if now, when he was in Opposition, Inc expressed his convictien ot tic necessity of the nieasure, and were to give to his Majesty's Mi of his aid. If honourable gentlemen asked him under what possible eh vein- stances he would consent to any relaxation of his oppositii-m-iti.o3tetli:t41.1..taLlt:Ililltil: mem of Irish municipal corporations, as proposed in this bill, he wiluld that he thought that honourable gentlemen had no right toask hinin lr 1ethene..1 questions, on expect an answer to thian. But, even if he thought :Loy reisoble settlement of the question practicable, he did not then think that it would lie advantageous to state what he might conceive it to be. But he would , r Ir it it was the duty of the King's Government, before they asked that Ileme to come to a final decision on this question, to tell them what they tweed. 4l re do with respect to the Irish Church. To say that that question was tineoneeet.al with the one befiwe the House, was perfectly insulting ; and this wa- certdin'y not the feeling of his Majesty's Government at the commencement of the session.
Sir Robert read the passage in the King's Speech, wliere th tneasures relating to the Irish Poor, Church, arid Corpolatiens
were all mentioned together. Surely Ministers must hate Isla e measures on these three subjects till ready ; and if the AliDisitis hail wily laid before the House their plans for dealing with the (lunch real the Poor as well as tlie Corporations, Sir Robert would not Isa sra - jected himself to the taunt of dealing in generalities, but w,rmhrl I toe distinctly stated whether he was prepared to make any concess,vii, tied ss- *bat these concessions should be. At present be was warranted in saying, that the Church of Ireland was ib danger, and that the privi- terse proposed to be given to the Irish by This bill would be used to weaken the Church. He bad been called upon to adhere to the prin- tittle of the Relief Bill : he did to adhere it. That principle was, free- dom of religion to all classes of his Majesty a subjects ; at the same thee, however, a solemn compact was entered into to maintain the Es- tablished Church. With the resolution to adhere to this obligation, be %%amid not pass a measure which tended to injure the Church. In allusion to Lord John Russell's declaration that it was impolitic to intreauce bills which there was no prospect of carrying, Sir Robert said he entirely agreed on this point with Lord John—
The noble lord also, in manly language, declared that whenever such measures were Is ought forward, coming from what quatter they might, and believing that they would have such a lesult, no feeling of false pride should prevent his Riving his cordial support to them. When he heard from the noble lord such language, he would not taunt him as a alinister for having made such a decla. ration. He thought that the noble lord meant that be was ready, at the ex-
pense of every sactifice—that he was ready to propose to Parliameot the settle- stem of the Tithe question, independently of the resolution by which he said
the question was embarrassed. If such was the intention of the noble lord, altheugh that resolution had proved fatal to his government,— if such was the Inteetion of the noble lord, not one word of taunt should fall from him on the aubieet ; het he would at once proceed to the consideration of the 'lithe ques-
tion with A view to the settlement of it. Ile saw no other way by which this queoion could he satisfactorily settled. It was the evil of that resoloution neither being carried into ett;wt nor abandoned, that engendered bitterness in
Ireland. The noble lord and his colleagues knew that it was impossible to leave the question in its present state. The Government and the Legislature most do soritething. He thought that if was imperative on him to make thisdeclara- tiou with respect to the Irish Tithe questi m, and to show that it was neces- sary that they should have an explanatiou of the views of the Government on this question before being called upon to give an opinion on the measure be- fore them. A further explanation as to the Poor-law Bill was also necessary.
Ile knew not what to think of the vague intimations of Ministers about their quitting office. He viewed the matter with great indif- ference, but was not surprised ut their desire to relinquish office— Ile taunted them not with a desire to retain office : he believed that, in the present position of public affairs, few men would be tempted to encounter the difficulties which at present surtounded them, excepting they felt impelled by a sit-e tif public duty. (Ironical cheers from the Opposition.) Oh let lonourahle gentlemen opposite look at the position of public affairs. Let them look at the state of our foreign affairs. ( Vociferous cheering from all parts ef the House.) Ile was glad to see a smile on the noble lord's countenance (Lora Palmerston's.) Oh ! the noble lord had a right to smile, when he looked at the position of the country with reference to the great Powers of the Ninth, with reference to Spain, with reference to France, and indeed every ether country with which England was connected. ( Gleat cheering, at the dose if which a solitary Ministerial Member called out "Question, (pot Simi") This Was the epos-tine. This was the material, the pinching part of the question. (Renewed clicet s.) Let them look also at the state of commer- cial embarrassment, at the state of employment in many of the manufactuf ng dist' juts; let them look at the state of the Governments of the three great toiiirtrre iii the West of Euror —in France no Government existing, in Spain noGovionment existing, and in England a doubt front day to day whether there was a Government or not. (Continued cheers.) Let them also look at the state of public questions belbre the House—at the hundreds of questions of the ut,ost importauee, with stately one advanced ; day after day new propo- sitions were made, but no advance towards bringing any of them to a close had bee,' made. What, he would ask, had been done in the present session ? (Gars.) What measure had yet been passed in the course of the present se-sh 0, on %Well, the noble lord seemed ili-posed to ihume himself ? No doubt, marry questions had been proposed, but still no advance had been made towards bringing them to a satisfactory conclusion This was one MI ss Inch to night a d,cisorn might be come to, hut it was the only one. Where was the Irish Poor. law Bill ? Where was the Church•rate Bill ? He might go through the whole catalogue; but was ever the public business of the country in such a state ? Look at the state of the Colonial policy. He said this only in reference to those who believed that there were parties seeking by low intrigue to possess theta-elves of the offices of the present Government, and to enjoy the satisfac- tion of attempting to bring all these measures to a satisfactory setthiment. The eonntry could not look at the state of affairs, and believe that any man would seek office under any other motives than those of public duty ; but he did not hesitate to say, that if his alajesty's Government should make this a pretext for abandoning their offices, and escaping from the difficulties with which they were surrounded — (Loud and long.cmitinued cheers from the -Opposition lienches)—then he did not hesitate to say, that he believed there was spirit and energy enough in the country to find compensation for their loss ; and if the crew should abandon the noble vessel among the breakers, he slid not believe that shipwreck was inevitable, hut that the people would lend support to those inclined to make an effort for the protection of the country's interests, and to rescue lira from the dangers which appeared to threaten her. (Continued cheering.)
At the conclusion of Sir Robert Peel's speech the House divided : For the third reading :302 Against it 247 Majority 55 The announcetnent of the numbers elicited loud cheers from both sides of the House. The bill was then read a third time, and passed.
On Thursday, it was taken to the House of Peers ; where Lord Met.nounee moved that it be read a first time, ordered to be printed, and be read A second time on the '25th instant.
The Duke of WeiasecTost called the attention of the House to the passages in the King's Speed', and in the Address, relative to the Irish Corporations, Church, end Poor—
It appeared, that of these three sulijects, one oily had been brought into their
Lordships' that which related to the Irish Municipal Corpo- rations. Another subject, the Poor laws, hail, lie believed, been brought under the consideration of the other House of Parliament, and stood on the Votes. But the third subject, which related to Irish Tithes, had not been Set introduced to either House. Note, it eel tautly app....tred to him, that before their Lordships were caned on to diSe11,4 the principle or details of the Muni eipal Corporations Bill, they ought to know what the measures were which Ministers intended to introduce with reference to the other subjects alluded to in his Majesty's Speech, and in the Address. Putler these circumstances, he requested Lord Melbourne, to postpone the consideration of this measure to S later period ; and he was the more particularly anxious the House should tea proceed with it on a very early day, because Lord Lyndhurst, who took a very distinguished part in the discussion of the IIWASUre last year, was absent on
account of a domestic misfortune, and e staid be tali& to attend in his lilac for some days.
Lord MELBOURNE could not allow that the Duke of Wellington had given a sufficient reason for a postponement of the second reading beyond the 25th instant—
As to the three measure referred to in his Majesty's speech, one of them had been brought iota that House, and was the subject of their present discussion. Another was the question of Poor-laws; and the principle of the bill on that subject had already been fully opened in the other House, but it was yet a ques- tion whether or not it should be adopted by Parliament. The third was the question of Tithes; and upon that abject a notice would shortly be given in the other House, and the bill would be brought in as soon as the state of the public business would permit. He thought, therefore, that these measures ' would be before their Lordships in sufficient time to decide upon them calmly
and deliberately. Ile greatly regretted the cause which prevented the at- tendance of the noble and learned load, and he would be most happy to do any thing to meet his convenience. At the same time, personal feeling could not be allowed to weigh too much, and courtesy demanded some limit, when the country required that measures of great public importance should be expedited. Lord ELLENBOROUGH understood, that before the Municipal Pall was disposed of, the other Irish bills would be brought before the House.
Lord MELBOURNE said the two others would be sent tip as soon as possible.
The bill was read a first time, and ordered for a second reading on Tuesday the 25th.
In the House of Peers, on Tuesday, the Earl of RADNOR moved the second reading of his bill to amend the Statutes of the Universities of Oxford mid Cambridge. He delivered a speech in support of his motion; dwelling especially on the habitual violation of the oaths which the members took to observe the statutes of the Universities, out the non-residence of Fellows, and the general misappropriation of the University funds.
The motion was supported by Lord HOLLAND, Lord MELBOURNE, and particularly by Lord BROUGHAM; who went into numerous details
to prove that inquiry in the first instance, and reform subsequently, were imperiously required by the abuses and irregularities of the Uni- versity system.
The Bishop of LLANDAFF opposed the motion ; and argued, that, virtually, the members of the Universities committed no offence in vio- lating the College Statutes they had sworn to obey. He moved that the bill be read a second time that day six months.
The Archbishop of CANTERBURY considered that Lord Radnor's proposition was insulting and degrading to the Universities. He contended that the intention of the various founders were honestly ful- filled by the existing authorities at Oxford and Cambridge. The Duke of WELLINGTON regarded the measure as a bill of pains and penalties ; and that it was an indirect and unfair mode of obtaining the admission of Dissenters into the Universities. He also asserted, that in every instance the will of the founder was honestly and completely carried into execution by the authorities of toe different Colleges.
The amendment was carried, without a division.
Devi ON :CEWSPAFERS, On Thursday, Mr. ROEBUCK moved tine Commons " to resolve itselt into a Committee, to consider the propriety of repealing the Stamp- duty on Newspapers." He said that his motion rested upon the simple
ground, that it was desirable to remove every obstruction to the educa- tion of the people ; and that it was the duty of the Legislature to give
every facility for the attainment of that knowledge which the people desired more than at any former period—the knowledge of what concerned them socially and politically. Now, what had Ministers done to remove obstacles to the attainment of knowledge by the people ?
Had they done all they could for that purpose? ; hut when last year,
for no fiscal putpose, they took off a great part of the statnp-dury on news- papers, they left enough of that duty to form an obstruction to the instruction of the people. It had been acknowledged by Ministers that the existing duty had not been retained for fiscal purposes. For what purpose then? The noble lord at the head of the Government in that house had admitted that the fiscal was the least consideration in the way of retaining the present dirty; and that such a purpose ought never to stand in the way of public instruction. Was it retained for the purpose of maintaining some particular monopoly?
The London newspapers were at the present moment, in his opinion, at mono- ply; and perhaps the penny duty might be retained fur the purpose of keeping
that monopoly up. Now his object was to do away with all monopoly, and to
give to the people in the country, wino now took so lively an interest in political and social matters, the benefit of the discussion of those matters. He WAS desirous, therefore, to abolish the duty entitely ; bl) that, as in America, every small town should have its newspaper, in which general and local matters iii:glit be freely discussed.
After the declaration of Lord John Russell, he should be surprised f Mr. Spring Rice were to declare that the duty must be retained :4 fiscal purposes ; especially as, taking into account the increased
revenue derived from the greater number of advertisements, and from the augmented consumption of paper, the fiscal advantage of conti- nuing the duty would turn out to be very paltry indeed.
But Ministers had all along showed their carelessuess am! :Ipatliy on the sub- ject of the education of the people. Nt'hy, as had been said by the noble lord who was the leader of the Tories in the other House of Pal liament, why not
take off the remaining penury duty ? What purpose could its retention an-
swer, but to bring his Majesty s Government into disrepute ? It could do the right lion'imable gentleman s budget no good. By the measure of last session
they lent put sonic thousands of pounds iuto the pockets of a leiv ninnop.rists of Lomlon, and hail done the people no service, lie cared nothing about the edu- cation of the rich: they would obtain institiction under any eireiimstancts. lint he was very solicitous for the education of the poor ; and, as lie hail already observed, be was desitous that every small town in the country should have its newspaper.
Mr. WAKLEY seconded the motion.
Mr. Senteis RICE opposed it. He said that it might be suppose d, from Mr. Roebuck's speech, that Ministers wished to retain the Dem s- paper-duty for some odious purpose of their own ; but nothing could be further from the fact. He had redeemed his pledge of reducing the duty as fur as the state of the revenue permitted, and was not pre- pared to make so large a concession ne the abolition of the entire tax. It was most unfair to state that the effect of the reduction of the duty lad been merely to benefit a few monopolists of London ; and he would inform the House what the actual results of that measure had been— They had had six months' experience of the operation of that act. In the half.) ear ending the 5th of Aprilit386, the number of newspapers stamped was 14,874,000. In the first half-year during which his experiment had been tried, that number rose from 14,874,000 to21,3(10,000 ; which sltowed the vast increase of nearly one-third. Therefore, if the circulation of newspapers were a bane- it to the community, the honourable Member ought to give him credit for the success of his measure. When Mr. Roebuck underrated the value of the ex- periment which had been made, he must call his attention to the following facts, to show the progress which had been made. In the first quarter of the half-year in whickthe reduction of duty had taken place, the number of stamps was 8,362,000; and in the second quarter, ending 5th April last, they amounted to no less than 13,000,000. So that not only was there a vast in- crease as comparing the last half-year with that which had preceded it, but in comparing the two quarters of the last half-year separat' ely the numbers rose from 8,000,000 to 13,000,000. Take a further proof of what would be going on, if they allowed the present system to continue. In the last quarter of the last balf.year the nember of newspaper stamp., amounted to 13,1300,000 : in the last half-year previous to the reduction of the stamp duty, the number of stamps for the whole of Great Britain was 14,000,000 and odd ; MI that the number of stamps in the quarter ending April 1837 was withili 1,000,000 of what it was ihr six months ending in Apt il.last year. Would not, then, Mr. Roebuck admit that these figures demonstrated a most beneficial tesult front the operation of the preseut act ?
But he should be told that be put an end to the smuggliee trade in newspapers : that was precisely what he aimed ut accomplishing. lie wished to protect the capitalist, who paid his taxes, from being under- sold by the illicit dealer. When be proposed to alter the law, it appeared from returns laid before the House, that there had been 6:30 persons committed to the Metropolitan, and 351 to the Country prisone, for violations of that law. Since the law had been altered, there had not been one prosecution, and not a single press had been seized. The revenue also, he was happy to say, had Hot suffered much. The defi- ciency was widths 8,000/. less than hug of that which he had calculated upon. Other benefits had followed the measure— In London there bad no less than twenty fresh newspapers startod into ex- istence, and no less than thirty-five in the provinces, many of them differing in prices. in Scotland, for inatance, he knew of a tespectable viper which Was published at iid. ; aid by this alteration in the stanpahay was makin4 more, and was more widely circulated, than before. Thus he had shown, that in finance, in putting down smuggling, hi the extinction of prosecotiens, and in the increase of circulation, the measure had been throughout beneficial.
It was proposed by the advocates of entire abolition, that a postage_ duty should be substituted for the stamp-duty-
Now lie should like in know what right tit,/ had to itepose a tax upon the poorer classes for Ow Immelit of the wealthy? The postage-tax ought to lie paid by the tm ealthy and eonitherciii cla.ses, for whose benefit the system chiefly worked. In I krorml.ire, Lancashire, Glasgow, and Edi,dmurglo p nwis were subject to the charge of one pen iv if colive■eil in Otte manner, t,t il mmtherwise conveyed they were exempt. The post had been very higely sxteuded, and time inequalities existing hi the charges he should proimnso belore the close of the session to remedy by the introduction oi a bill. Ile wi-lad, bowevi r, ii guard himself against false expectations; and at pre-etit he mEd net see his ii my suffi- ciently clear to bc he able to say that he emaild in all ea`ea %% hat he thought the proper syNtetil for the one that now existed.
Ile called open Mr. Itoelniek to allow the bill of la- t ar a fair trial ; and moved, as an amendment to the motion for gil g ibto Committee, that "there be !aid before the House accounts explamstory of the effect pi educed upon the revenue by the reduction of the stamp- duty on newspapers." Wa IS LIN atiked Rice, how, if he were really so well satisfied with the operation of his plan so far, he could hesitate to k mask uir the remainder of the tax? The argument of Mr. Vice vaa, that time people must derive, great beacilt from the free (erred:aim' a news- papers ; he took credit to himself from the increased circulation ansiug fame the reduction of duty ; and yet be hesitated to give perfect freedom to the trade in newspapers. Mr. Wakley really thought that the Iledicals had been placed iu a very unfortunate position einice the accession of the present Ministers to oilier. They had supported Ministers in all their good measures, having entered into u sort of partnership with them : they were, however, not sleeping, but wetching runners. After all the service they rendered Ministers, was it not hard that the Radicals could not get one solitary piece of service in return ? It was almost time that this state of things should cease; and it was into ly impossilde that it should much longer continue. And he could assule his 31a- jesty's Ministers with much truth, that the Radical Menthe's were subjected to very bitter complaints out of doors, for the very quiet, easy pat which they took in that House. It was often asked of them, "Whit matters it to OA Whether Whip; or Tories, whether Conservatives, as the} are cants!, or Radicals, be in rower, prOVided We see some good measures introduced, and some Radical measures proposed and carried." :slaw he felt himself very WW1 incapacitated from giving a satisfactory answer to this proposition. It was impossible to satisfy his 'friends on these points.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer, " his right honourable friend," bad dwelt with complacency on the hue ease in the circulation of stamped newspapers ; but he had not stated to the House how many hundreds of thousands of unstamped papers, which under the old law circulated among the humbler classes, had been suppressed. But the necessity of instructing the humbler classes was most urgeut. With respect to time Church-rate meusure, One of the best that ever was in- troduced into the House, (and Ministers sometimes brought forward measures as good as any Radical could desire,) only think what igno- rance and delusion prevailed :
In some parts of England—in every parish, or almost in every parish—the
rector, the waif, or the curate, had been round to time parishioners making statements to the people, the truth 4.r falsehood of which thee bud not the means to ascet tutu. lu a parish which he hall lately visited in Devonshire, the clergyman hail called on the labeuriag people, amid asked them, " Have you 'mind 4if the 31inistermal mensal 0 re-pecting Church-rates? Do you know that vim, chinch is to be puke i dewn Are you for the church or not?" This bad been dooe. (Interruption ; some Members crying " Oh, uh r oth,rs, " Nan e,-raime rj The places to which his obseivations had reference were Menibuiy, Su ahead, and Yarcombe. But he wuuld name wee inatauce fur- tiler, where a labouring man lefused to sign u petition againett(1171:11iii:ies;teLiu-alt measure for the abolition of Church-rates: he could not, indee
the elergyin in said to him, " Oh, you wid do of course as your neighhount do • I will write your name for you." Now this, he believed, had been the ease in many instances.
The newspaper ought to be a weekly book for a labouring man, to instruct him as to his personal rights and personal wrongs. Of these; and many other subjects of importance to himself, the labourer was now ignorant_
Theigno;unee of the people, in maty parts of the country, was so great as to he hardly credible. Only a little while ago, a farmer in Wiltshire was asked how many Kings there were reigning in England, Scotland, and Ireland. " Ohl Lor I," said he, " I don't ano v how many there be now, but when I was a boy thste used to be but two—old King George the Third and the Prince of Wales." (Laughter.) Another was asked what he understood by the Ballot, and abet he thought of it. " Oh," said he, with a knowing shake of the head, " that's the only fair way of doing it ; all our names be put into a hat, rind his as i.41rawed out, why he's the illember." (Laughter.) Now whim such answers as these were received upon matters that were the common too, of discussion, how could it be wondered at that theme were 300 gentlemen, pro. fessing Tory ininciples on the opposite side of the House? (Laughter and cheers.) But give to the whole country the meats of acquiring information at a cheap and easy rate, and he believed not only that Sir It. Peel would come over to the Liberal side of the House, but that there would not he in the House of Commons more thau ten gentlemen professing Tory principles. ( Cheers.) It wall impossible, with an intelligent and well-itiMrtned people, that Toryism could continue to exist for it eaiy. it Was Opposed to all the best interests of the countly. What was 'Toryism ? He would not wait to define it ; but the effects of a kindred pi iticiple of pulley and action might be seen hi the Carlism of Spaiu, the Miguelism of Portugal, and the autocratic despotism of Russia in Poland.
The Chancellor of the Exchequer feared that if the stamp-duty were abolished, the English press would lose its present chaiacter-
Now everybody in the habit of reading the newspapers knew how private per- sons and public characters were often abused ; and everybody SU circumstanced must acknowledge that the present character of the press required to be changed. By way of illustration to this point, he would take the liberty of reading an extract front one of our public journals. They all knew- that iii poetry the finer qualities of the mind load play. To show what a stamped press could do, he would take a specimen of the poetry of the Times news- paper. It Was att allusion to au honourable and learned Metnber of thatIlouse, tvhuot exettions in the cause of liberty for many years had been indefatigable, and to a great extent successful, and to whom the people of Ireland owed a debt of gratitude that could never be discharged. It was headed " The Whig
Mis- sionmary of I SW."
S'entn condensed of Trish Loa! Ruffian, eowsitsl, ilenagogur ilintialless liar—base &tractor! It arse ur letar a,ss--tlealon's laetor ;
• • a • • •
Safe from eke lenee—sa re from law, What can curb thy callow; jaa Who %mild site a cunt at liar ? Out a poltroon %m ho would tire? Thou inaycst walk in open Few will kick thee—wile a ill fight."
That was the poetry of the stamped press. ( Cheers.) He had copied the passage from the 2'iners of time 214th November 1835, only a year amid a half since; and hi the Times of the lath December 18:15, only a fortnight after- ward's, theme was this notice to corresaineleists—" 'flue verses to King Dail are well imagined, but want polish." So that this was a polished specimen of the poetry of the stamped press. (Laughter and cheers.) From the prose of the same newspaper lie might have made [nutty selections if he had thought them sieceesaiy ; he hall merely alluded to the poetry fur the purpose of show- ing that the stamp at any rate had not produced any great degree of »alinement in the press.
lie then stated the amount and nature of the securities required from the pahlisher of a newspaper by the Stamp.oflice ; amid reminded the House that the Chancellor of the Excla quer had increased the severity of the old law by rendering the publisher of a newspaper or a political pamphlet liable to have his house broken open and every article in it seized. 'I'here never had been such a law in Evgland before— Was that act, then, to remain? The Chancellor of the Exchequer affected to disapprove of Tory principles; but what %%wild be the effect if the Tories were allowed to work the pi ovisions of that bill? Ile was not afraid of the Tories himself; the public opinion was too strong fur them ; arid if Sir Robert Peel again came into wile°, he expected to see him a good Radical. (Loud turtaterer.) lie had seen so many mutations in public omen and public affairs sluice lie came itito that House, that lie should not at all be surprised at may such change iii Sir Robert Peel. He hoped „Ur. Rice would remember the de- claration made last year by a noble and learned lurd, the head of the Conserva- tive party in the other House of Pat liament, on the subject of the newspaper. tax. This W.e4 his declaiation—" They would do better to send up a bill taking WI the duty altogether, and taut keep up the complicated machinery and the expensive establishment neCessary fur the levying of it paltry tax of oue penny on each newspaper." Only last session that was the declaration of Lord Lyndhurst ; anti Alr.Wakley warned the gentlemen on the Treasury bench, that if they did not act up to the recommendation of the noble aud leatned lord, Sir Robert Peel would on the first OCCASion take the opportieuity of doing so.
Mr. Wat.aava brifly supported Mr. Roebuck's motion ; and ex- pressed a hope, that before the session was over the penny postage charged on the delivery of newspapers in London arid other places would be discontinued.
Mr. Annuli TnEvort said, that newspapers should be taxed like other luxul its. It wits quite absurd, a perfect insult to common un- derstanding, to cull new:Tapers the medium of useful knowledge. He felt quite indifferent as to the result of the present motion; but could not imagine why Ministers, who had reduced so large a portion of the duty, should be so excessively mealy. mouthed about the last penny. M. HUME hoped that he might appeal to Sir Robert Peel for his vote on the present occasion. Sir Robert did not use vituperative language hi the house, and Mr. Hume hoped he would not sanction vituperative language out of doors by keeping up the stamped press Ile did not while to take off the penny postage: he only wished that those papers which did not circulate through the Puat.otfice should not pay it all the same us those which did. Every newspaper should have the privilege of printing duty-tree as many copies as would cover its local circulation; those which went through the Post-Lace shuuld be taxed, as at present. By that means there would be a saving to the public, and those who got value would alone leave to pay for it. Fur instance, if 1,000 copies of a paper were pule. Ushed in either London or Edinburgh, the local circulation being three hundred, -while the conntry circulation through the Post.office was seven hundred, a saving of I/. 15s. would be effected on the present stamp-duty of 4/.148. 6d. ; and the parties (the public and the publisher) be benefited to that amount.
Sir ROBERT PEEL said, that the language of Mr. Hume was so -seducing, the expression of his countenance so friendly, and his de- meanour altogether so alluring, that if he remained silent, he feared it might be inferred that he was going to vote with Mr. Hume—that there was a secret alliance between them—that the compact between the Reformers and the Government was about to be dissolved, and an alliance cemented between the former patty and the Conservatives. He therefore really felt it necessary to declare, that he intended to vote tvith the Chancellor of the Exchequer ; and he was not going to be the instrument of breaking up the alliance on the opposite benches— Mr. Hume bad been at the pains of arranging his argument into a syllogism; but it appeared to him that there were a great many steps to be filled up in the chain of reasoeing before the honourable gentleman could arrive at such a con- clusion from the premises, which he hoped were themselves just, that he wished -to discharge his duty in that House without indulging in personelities. That was the course he wished to pursue ; and he presumed to think, that if every one were to follow in this respect the example which he endeavoured to set, the course of sound argument would not he obstructed, nor the Zharacter of the House of Commons lowered by it. (Loud cheers.) He did not see why, because he deserved that character of abstaining from personalities, he should vote for the removal :of this duty. 3Ir. Hume ought to be more impartial in his censures of the public press. The honourable gentleman took one class of newspapers; he (Sir R. Peel) read others ; for he thought a public man would very inadequately perform his duty if he abstained front consulting the public journals. He did consult the journals; and he was happy to say, after long experience, he had now got so callous, that he could read them without the slightest disturbance. (Laughter and cheering.) Ile could assure Mr. Hume, that though he had got a very extensive selection of journals which he actually tool; iu, and many more were forwarded to hint by sonic good natured friend or other, he could not say he found the penny newspapers snuck more compli- mentary than the others. ( Some Members remarked that there:vete no penny newspapers ; on which Mr. P. Howard excited much laughter by obsu r. lug, ‘. There's the Penny 31agazine.") Sir Robert Peel said be sometimes rcad the Penny Magazine ; he found no vituperation in that, but great in. structiou and amusement. But there were newspapers sold for much lea. than fivepetwe under the new stamp-laws ; and he did not find that they improved in mildness in proportion as they descended in price. He also received publi- cations which were subject to no stamp, and he did not find them more compli- mentary. Front all this combination of circumstances, he inferred that they would not, by entirely removing the duty on newspapers, have a very effectual security against vituperation. Mem party-spit it ran very high, he believed thee; must expect that offences against good maunets would occur. They mild hardly hope for perfect freedom front vituperation ; and it would be a dangerous argument to employ against the utility of the press, that they occa- sionally found some severe personal abuse.
He could assure Mr. Wakley, that he was not meditating the re. :novel of the tax— If the progress of the experiment which was now going on, and the docu- ments promised by Mr. Spring Rice, should lead to the conclusion that the tone of the Vett might be improved by the propo:ed measure, that would be a subject for subsequent consideration ; on that he would give no opinion ; but he had heard nothing in the speech of Mr. Rice front which he dissented.
Mr. Caanses Besstat regretted that Sir Robert Peel was against the abolition of the duty; but, from the loophole left in the con- cluding part of his speech, he saw great reason to hope that Sir Robert would change his opinion. It was possible that Lord Lyndhurst and Mr. Arthur 'Trevor might make the abolition of the stamp-duty the condition of joining his Administration ; and, no doubt, that consider- ation would have weight with Sir Robert, who was a prudent arid cautious man. Mr. Boller, being quasi Dceoniensis, begged to assure Sir Robert that the people of Devon had wit enough to set up a press of their own, and needed no assistance from London, as appeared to be the opinion of those who considered it of such advantage to the in- habitants of the country to have London newspapers postage-free. He had once thought the circulation of the London press in the provinces absolutely necessary, but he had changed his opinion ; for he had observed, that in every respect—in ability, moderation, and in- telligence—the country press was infinitely superior to that of London. He had listened with great pleasure to the admirable speech of Mr. Wakley, but regretted his allusion to the difference between Whigs and Radicals— It had been said that although the Radicals supported the Government, the Government had in no instance agreed with the Radicals. Now, he thought that hardly fair towards Ministers; it should be recollected, that many mea- sures had been brought forward by them which would have been, a very short time ago, termed " Radical rand he thought it might more justly be said that the Ministry had made a great progress in Radicalism. (Loud cheers from the Opposition.) Ile must confess, that although differing front them with respect to the penny stamp.duty, he still thought that they had pursued, on the present occasion, the ouly course that was open to them. Much as he himself desired the whole duty repealed last year, yet it would in his opinion be an act of levity and inconsistency on the part of those to whom was Maimed the management of public affairs, and such as would not be calculated to excite the confidence of the country, if after determining to retain the penny duty, the Ministers were, the very year after, to remove it.
Still, being himself in favour of the total abolition, and not being a Minister, he should vote for Mr. Roebuck's motion. Last year he had said that the reduction of the duty would do a great portion of good- . But he now found that he was wholly wrong, and was greatly disappointed in the effect which that reductions had had. It did not appear to have im- proved the tone of the newspapers by breaking up the monopoly, or by diffusing political information amongst the people. The right honourable gentleman had said that there had been a great increase in the circulation of newspapers since the reduction of the duty ; but he would venture to predict, that when the returns were obtained it would appear that that increase had taken place among the Sunday and Country newspapers only. The price of those papers being only sevenpence a week, the reduction of threepence or fourpence in that price Was a very sensible reduction. But the reduction of the expenditure on the daily newspapers was so trifling that it bad not increased their circulation.
It was of the highest importance to diffuse political information among the people. The Governmeet was now feeling the evil effects of Ignorance.....
To what else were to be attributed the prejudices which prevailed upon what was acknowledged by all men of education to be the very bust of its measures— he meant the Poor-law Amendment Bill? However much the aristocracy of this country might be opposed to them upon other points, it was the faint that upon this point the Government had received greater support from the edu- cated classes than he believed any Government had upon any other paint whatsoever. Ile had spoken to many gentlemen of the Tory persuasion, and • he really thought that the good which had been derived from that measure had reconciled thetn to many other steps which the Government had taken, in spite of their political ptejudices. But why did a contrary opinion unhappily prevail among the uneducated,—not among the class who were supposed to be the sufferers by that measure, but among those who had just that degree of intent- geuce which was got from oral communication with the inhabitants of large towns, but who had mint the advantage of a cheap press, that could inform their minds, and fill them with good opinions, and, what was ten tines more valuable than good opinions, state to them the correct facts of the case? Ile believed that had a cheap press ditfusol amongst that class of persona tnerely the facts of the case, there would have been but little of that igmoraist prejudice which had long been one of the greatest obstacles to good government that existed in this country.
Mr. ROEBUCK, in reply, said he had been disappointed by the an- swer of Mr. Spring Rice to his speech— Ile haul placed the question on this broad basis—that the necessat ies of life ought not to be taxed, and that the fotemost rank of those necessaries was the diffusion of knowledge among the pimple : and how had the Chaucellor of the Exciter answered thet argument ? Why, by saying, forsooth, that other things were taxed, and, that there:4e knowledge must he taxed. The Chan- cellor of the Exchequel had admitted that the effect of the reduction of the duty on newspapers had been to inetease their circulation, and therefore that the revenue had not suffered by the reduction. Was not that a conclusive argu- ment in favour of the repeal of the duty altogether ? It was supposed that the London press circulated through the post ; but the fact we., that almost every London paper was sent into the country by the Loud in coaches, and not through the Post •uttice. What he wanted was, minted wrappers, which any person iniglit pure'•,se for a penny, and employ to tired:ate a newspaper through the Post • ewe That would leave the London plpers circulated in London and the country pre-8 free from charge, and fix it ouly upon the post ige. Could . ny 111.‘g be more just ? The House tilvaled; and Mr. Rice's amendment was carried, by 81 to 42.
Mr. Hem, on Wednesday, moved the second reading of his bill for the better management of County. rates.
Mr. Aiseos said, that from seeing his name to it, .Members might suppose that he approved of the bill ; but, on the contrary, he was opposed to it, and his name had been used without his consent.
Mr. HUME said, that the mistake atio f.ram his impression that Mr. Alston approved of the hal. Indeed, Mr. Alston had told him that he had approved of the primaple of tee umlaute.
Mr. A ss.ros said, he did think that representation should accompany taxation ; and he was also in favour of the establishment of County Boards ; bit he could not support the various and complicated details of Mr. Hume's bill. He moved that it be read a second time that day six months.
GALLY listGirr regretted that Mr. Flume had not confined his attempt at legislattuo to the county of Mithilesex, tt iterein many abuses prevailed, but hail made an itideeent attack on the Magistracy generally throughout the county.
Colonel Wtiou was sorry that Mr. Kaieht had thooglit proper to drag the county of Middlesex so particidady into the discussion. He would maintain that the Middlesex Magistrates wet a no way to blame for any mismanagement of tilt. pecuniary concerns of the county. He %'as opposed to 3Ir. Ilunie's bill, and weteld not allow Lint to overtura one of the finest and most beneficial of English institutions.
Sir JOIIN WnoTresto-ai and Lord EnatNGTON approvual of the prin- ciple, while they objected to some of the details of the bill.
Sir EDWARD KNATCHBULI„ Mr. BYNG, Mr. EDWARD BULLER, Mr. 311eLs, Mr. SHAW LEI'Lvste, Mr. BENETT, arid Sir EARDLLY
WLL- Not', opposed the bill.
Mr. Roeuceri said, that the principle of the hill was not a new one: it was in operation in every corporate town in England—it was simply the principle of making taxation and representation go hand in hand. The 2dagistracy, as at pre-ent constituted, was a nuisance. The Ma- gistrates employed themselves in forwarding their own petty interests. This was universally known ; and frequently admitted in private con- versation by gentlemen whom he then saw, Ina who held a different language in the House. For his part, Mr. Roebuck said, he would not state that in private which he was not ready to proclaim in Parlia- ment.
Mr. TULK, Mr. JAMES, Mr. LENNARD, Mr. BROTHERTON, and Lord WoltssLv, spoke briefly in favour of the bill.
Mr. GOULBURN expressed his surprise that neither the Secretary for the Home department nor any other measlier of the Government though tit to attend the discussion of so important a measure.
Mr. Fox MAuse said, that nothing had been further from his ima- gination than the necessity of addressing the House on this occasion. Lord John Russell was absent, because he considered the bill as one of mere local importance, and thought it best to leave gentlemen on one side of the House and the other to settle the question among them- selves— 'flue question was purely a financial one. (" 01., oh !") He had nothing further to state en the subject. (" Hear and much lanyhter.) That was as far as the Government was concerned. , For hinwelf, however, he would state that his opinian was in favour of the second reading of the hill, because the principle of control being vested in the rate-payers was sound and wholesome. Ile did not say that many parts of the bill might not be objected to, or that his noble friend might not object to them when they next came before the house. If his noble friend did object to them, be would be better able than he could pretend to be to explain the reasons of his absence on this occasion. ( Great laughter.) Anal he was sure that his noble friend would be able to prove that this was not a question in which the weight of the Government ought to be thrown either in the one scale or in the other. Ile should vote, then, for the second reading, but without pledging himself to a single part of the machinery. Lord STANLEY would not discuss the merits of the bill before the House ; thought he was satisfied that it was one of the greatest impor- tance, affecting the social intercourse of the country, and nearly the whole of its civil and criminal jurisdiction- This was the first time that it had been stated in the Mine of Commons that it was either expedient or decent for his Majesty's Ministers--persons calling themselves the Government of the country—to abstain from expressiug in their places, as Ministers of the Crown, the views they took of the system pursued with regard to the Magistracy of England. (Much cheering.) If any gentkman considered this bill unimportant, be was quite at liberty to differ in opinion with him; but, if this bill was important, they would not deny that the Home Secretary ought to have been in his place. But if the measure were unimportant, why was a Commission issued why had circulars been sent round ? why had the honourable Member for Hampshire and other Members of the Commission been called upon to express their views upon the question ? The Government ought to have taken the initiative ; and if they did not think proper to take the ioitiative, at all events they were bound to undergo the re- sponsibility of sanctioning or opposing the bill. The noble lord at the head of the Honie.Department was not present, although the question was one which affected the judicial character of the Magistracy. The honourable gentleman 'who was Under-Secretary for that department had stated, indeed, that it was purely a financial question : where then was the Chancellor of the Exchequer ? Was it a question of great, prominent, political importance or not? and if so, why was the Government not present? At any rate, why was not a repro. mutative of the Home Office present? What was the duty of the Home Office? Was it not a part of its duties to regulate and control the Magistrecy, and to take care that the Magistrites discharged their duties? Was it not a part of the duties of the Home Office to cheek the Magistrates when wrong, and to encourage them when right ; nod when it was ascertained that they hail dis- charged their duties, to defend them before the country ? The Home Secre- tary was not there, but the Under. Secretary fur that department was. Was the House to collect from Mr. Maule's observations that the Government thought that this was a question which might be left to be settled by the County Magistrates who were :Members of that House ? Why, they were the accused parties—the men who were on their trial. (Much cheering.) No- body disputed the weight which the County Magistrates had in that House- s weight which they rightly possessed on account of the awhority and influence which their conduct had obtained for them ; but the ptesent question was not . one which ought to be left to the decision of the Magistrates themselves. A charge was brought against the Magistrates, and the Government ought to de- clare whether that charge was made with their sanction and authority. They ought not to wait till the rejection of the bill, and then say, 4‘ We had ow own opinion upon the merits of the measure, but we left it to be decided by the County Magistrates, and you cannot wonder at the result."
Major BEAUCLERK considered that it was not decent to bring a charge against individuals in their absence, especially when the cause of their absence was not known.
Mr. E. J. STANLEY approved of the principle of the bill, but ob- jected to almost all its provisions.
Mr. Hume said, that the opposition of Lord Stanley did not trouble him, for his conduct Was altogether inconsistent— While the noble lord sat on the Ministerial side of the Howe, and as it were spell-bouud by Liberalism, he bad given utterance to opinions as Liberal as the most thorough Liberal could desire; hut when he changed his seat to the other side of the Howe, his seutiments were as Tory, like as the bitterest Tory could desire. Honourable Members had accused him (Mr. Hume) of drawing an indictment against the .Megistrates of the cutultry ; but the gentlemen who were coneideted to be thus accused did not act as gentlemen usually did, by sitting as judges iii their own I! 1002.. If they considered themselves accused, he called upon thein to leave the room. ( Lanyhtee. ) It was altoeether unfair that they ehould judge in a cense in which tiei were cunicermel. All he wanted was this--let the inagistratee i lit as much as they pleased in then judicial power, but let thAn not put their heed, itito the pockets of the eeople. After the 3lembers who had spelo eg dos! the hill, toil had misetated it. ohjects soul in- tentioue, let thin alitiv: it. ta o to a Coninii!tee ; and he slmuld be prepared to defend every one of its clauses, and to show that its machinery would net ilivolve one of the expense Imo: incurred in any one county. In the face if the Commons of Englaral, he would say to the Magistrates, " You who think yourselves arraigned—you who think this an indictment drawn against you— site and leave the House."
A division took place, and the amendment was carried, by 177 to 84. Thus the bill is lost.
DISMISSAL OF NAVAL OFFICERS.
Sir EDWARD CODRINGTON, on Thursday, moved for a return, stating the periods when Commander Edwards, Lieutenants Bryant, Milner, and Bee, Doctor 1Villiains, and Surgeon Boyce, were dismissed from the Navy, and deprived of their half.pay, with the reasons fur such deprivation. Sir Edward, in a voice inaudible in the gallery, stated the case of these officers, which he represented as one of great hardship.
Mr. CHARLES WOOD opposed the motion, on the ground that each of these officers had had an opportunity of stating his case before the Board of Admiralty, the proper tribunal ; and he (lid not think that because they bad failed in satisfying that tribunal of their innocence, It was proper for them to appeal to the House of Commons.
Mr. ROBINSON, Mr. AGLIONEY, Mr. RICHARDS, Sir LOVE PARRY, Mr. O'CONNELL, Mr. ARTHUR TREVOR, Colonel Titomesosr, Mr. HARVEY, arid Mr. P. HOWARD, supported the motion ; conceiving that a case for inquiry had been made out, and that to strike half-pay officers out of the service without trial, was an arbitrary proceeding. Admiral Amor, Admiral TROUBRIDGE, and Captain GORDON de- fended the course taken by the Admiralty, as both just and according to precedent.
Sir Bowan)) CODRINGTON said, that on a former occasion, Sir James Graham had stated that he would recommend the dismissal from the service of any officer who should act in any way unbecoming an officer and a gentleman. Now he wished to know what Sir James considered Unbecoming conduct?— Did he think that a naval officer who employed his Mejesty's ships in carry- 'Sax materials for building hciuses would be acting in a matinee unworthy of an officer and a gentleman? Would he consider that the officer in command of a ship who fished up brass guns which had been blown up, and distributed the proceeds of their sale as ririze-money among men who had never been in the actiori, at the rate of two French dollars a man—would he consider that is naval commander who had thus conducted himself had been guilty of behaviour un- worthy of an officer and a gentleman ? He ellould be glut to hear Sir James Grelra:o's opinion on this point, because Sir E. Cudringtou knew that such circumstances had taken place.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM asked why Sir Edward Codrington did not bring forward his charges in a direct and manly manner ? Why had not the fucts alluded to been substantiated before a Court-martial ? 1 hat course might have been taken ; and he must say, that Sir
Edward Codrington acted unworthily in bringing these charges behind the hack of a brother officer.
Sir EDWARD CODRINGTON bad mentioned this subject to Sir James Graham when he was endeavouring to obtain compensation for the men who fought at Navarino; but Sir James not only refused to inves- tigate the charge, but appointed this very officer to supersede him in the command of the Channel fleet—.
He had been taunted by Sir James Graham as if he did not dare to bring forward before his face the charge he had made against that officer: he was taunted also with dealing in insinuations. He would speak explicitly—the officer to whom lie referred was Sir Pulteney Malcolm. He disapproved of his conduct most strongly ; and he should hardly be averse to speaking out on this matter, for Sir Pulteney Malcolm had spoken very v of him, and had said, moreover, what was not true of him. He hoped he had spoken expli- citly now.
Sir JAMES GRAHAM admitted that Sir Edward Codrington had spoken out at last. As for Sir Pulteney Malcolm, there was not an officer of higher character in his Majesty's service— It was quite true that he had, when First Lord of the Admiralty, superseded the honourable and gallant Member opposite and had appointed Sir Pulteney Malcolm to the command of the Channel opposite, He was responsible for that appointment. With respect to what the honourable and gallant Member had stated eel 'five to his communication of the charges now made against Sir Pulteney Malcolm, he had to say, that he did not listen to any insinuations or changes preferred In such a manner. He had communicated with time who were most competent to form a judgment on the subject, and he disbelieved the charges altogether. They were never brought forward 'against Sir Pulteney Malcolm ; and he must say, that it was rather hard that he should be subjected to them now, at his time of life, and after the great services he had performed—now, when, after so many attempts to whisper away his character, the honourable and gallant Admiral was driven into a corner, and compelled to speak out. (Cheers.) After a few words from Mr. HUME in support of the motion, the House divided : for the motion, 46; against it, 153.
JOBBING AT TIIE HORSE GUARDS.
Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET, on Monday, read a letter from Mr. Lovesey, to tire e effect that he had not been influenced in the political course be had taken by the circumstance of having obtained a commis. sion in the Army. He had made no concession of political principle whatever, on that account.
Captain BERKELEY said, that still the plain, broad, and simple fact
remained, that Mr. Lovesey, who had never voted for a Tory before, having got his commission, voted for a Tory at the election of 1834. That fact could not be contradicted.
Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET said, that the commission was granted
in 1832, two years before the election ; and that when the application was made for the commission, Lord Fitzroy Somerset could not tell what the politics of Mr. Lovesey were.
Mr. Hume asked, why Lord Granville Somerset had not produced the important letter of Lord Edward Somerset, which contained the uppli;:ation for Mr. Lovesey's commission?
Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET said, that, to the best of Lord Fitzroy Somerset's recollection, no letter had ever been written either by Lord
Segrave or Lord Edward Somerset.
Mr. Hume said, that Lord Granville Somerset had certainly led the house to believe that such letters were in existence, and their lion-pro- duction would render the case complete.
Lord GRANVILLE SOMERSET said, if the letters could be found, they should be produced ; but if they were not in existence, it was hard to call upon him to preduce them.
Mr. Scanserr considered that the gist of the charge was gone, and the justification'of Lord Hill complete.
THE COMMITTEE ON THE LONGFORD ELECTION was appointed on Tuesday ; and consists of Lord Charles Russell, Sir Rufane Donkia,. Mr. Edmund Horsmati, Mr. Benjamin Hull, Mr. George R. Bowles, Lord Clive, Mr. Rowland Alston' Mr. Lawson, Mr. Thomas Hawke', Mr. George Houst , and Sir John Cam Hobhouse. [The Com- mittee chose Lord Clive to be their Chairman. Subsequently, Mr.
Herman having been taken ill, the Committee received permission to sit without hiin.1
THE SEVERN NAVIGATION BILL was rejected on Wednesday, by a vote of 1.51 to 124 against the second reading.
MERCANTILE SHIPPING. Mr. BUCKINGHAM, on Wednesday. moved the second reading of his bill for the prevention of shipwrecks and the management of merchant-vessels. Mr. ROEBUCK observed, that the 18th clause of the bill imposed a tax; and the bill should therefore have !Well preceded by a resolution of the whole House. The motion was withdrawn, after a few words from the Speaker; and Mr. BUCK. ING11/041 obtained leave to bring in a fresh bill.
CHURCH LANDS. Mr. Tnomas DUNCOMBE, on Thursday, moved for copies of' the Parliamentary Surveys of Church-lands deposited in
the year 1646 in the library of manuscripts at Lambeth Palace. The expense of printing those documents would be only 401.; and at pre-
sent the.fee for making an extract was half.a-gitinea a parish to the Archbishop's Secretary. Lord JOHN RUSSELL would not oppose the motion, but did not see much use in it, as the fee for inspecting them was small. Mr. BAINES said that he had been offered every facility ! for examining the manuscripts, without payment of any fee. Sir Ro- BEItT PLLL S uggest ed, that it would be well to ascertain whether the ma- nuscripts were really public propel ty. Lord JOHN Russet.t. concurred in this suggestion. Mr. DUNCOMBE went to the Library to consult the Journals ; and the debate was adjourned.
Scorcii PRISONS. Mr. Fox Maui.% on Thursday, obtained leave to bring in a bill "to improve Prisons, and Prison Discipline, in Scotland." lie briefly stated the leading provisions of the measure— Ile proposed to place the whole prison discipline of Scotland under a Board of Commissioners, aided by the Inepector-General of Prisons of the North, and two Commimeioners appointed by the &crew, of State. The members of the Board, with these exceptions, were to be unpaid. The mode of payment would be by an assessment on landed and household property throughout the country. yla proposed the Board should annually relent to Parliament, and lay before the House an estimate of expenses for the ensuing year. If that estimate was nut questioned in one month, it should be levied on the country in proportion to the population in districts. The collectors of road-dues would afford ma- chino). for the levying of the assessment, which would not exceed 30,000/. a)•ear; and in Edinburgh, as an instance, it would not exceed ld. in the pound.
The measure was received with general satisfaction.
IRISH TITHES. Lord MORPETH, on Thursday, gave notice for a motion "on Irish Tithes," for the 1st of May.