17 AUGUST 1833, Page 12

The House of Commons had another extra sitting to-day, from

twelve to four ; when the consideration of the Miscellaneous Esti- mates was resumed.

Mr. SINCLAIR and Mr. HUME protested against voting away such )akig,e sums at so late a period of the session ; and the latter declared his intention of preventing a shilling being voted next session after twelve o'clock at night. It was necessary that the Estimates should be voted before April, in order that reductions might be made before the commencement of the annual expenditure.

The resolution for granting 20,0001. for the furtherance of Education was opposed by Mr. HUME and Mr. COBBETT ; who said that be never would consent to the adoption of any general plan to teach the poor to • read and write.

What good did education, as it was called, do to the poor? If there were two agricultural labourers, one of whom could read the Penny Magazine and plough, and the other of whom could plough and make hurdles, and was a good shepherd, but could not read the Penny Magazine, he should say that the se- cond was the better educated of the two. Let any man go into the gricultural districts—for of the towns he could not so positively speak, call before him the labourers of a parish, and compare the fathers and sons,—he would forfeit any character he might have for knowing the working classes, if it were not found that the fathers were a better class of men, better workmen, and more willing to work, than their sons.

All the reports showed that as education spread, crime increased. Mr. MURRAY differed widely from Mr. Cobbett : he asserted without fear of contradiction, that taking any number of individuals who could read, and the same number who could not, the former would be found to commit fewer crimes, be better behaved, and altogether better sub- jects. He objected, however, to the grant, on the ground that there were sufficient charitable funds for the purposes of education, if they were properly applied.

Colonel EVANS thought it would be niggardly to stop the grant at that moment. If Mr. Cobbett's principle were carried into effect, what would become of his own Register?

Mr. Comicrr said he was misunderstood. He was not against edu- cation, but the forcing of it, and taxing people to pay for it.

Mr. R. POTTER wished the grant to be postponed.

Mr. HUME urged postponement. Colonel EVANS asked Mr. Hume, how he or any member could divide the House on this point, after allowing 45,000/. for the gilding of a palace, and twenty other sums of the same nature to be voted ? Lord .ALTHORP thought the feeling of the House was in favour of the grant, and would therefore allow a decision to be come to on the subject.

The House then divided : for the grant, .50; for Mr. Hume's amend- ment, 20; Ministerial majority, 24. The resolutions contained in the report were then read seriatim, and agreed to. When the Order of the Day for going into Committee on the Irish Tithe Bill was read,

Mr. HUME, after making some remarks upon the failure of the recent attempts to collect tithes in Ireland, and the improbability of their being collected any better in future, moved to add the following proviso

to the 19th clause of the bill, with the view of obtaining some security for the repayment of the money to be advanced-

" Provided always, and be it enacted, that if the sum be granted and ad- vanced under authority of this act, shall not be repaid from the sources provided, and within the periods specified by this act, any balance then remaining unpaid and due to the public, shall become chargeable on the funds arising from the the temporalities of the Church of Ireland."

Mr. WALLACE seconded the motion.

Lord ALTHORP would undertake to show that the parties t o 410m the advance was made would have the means of repayment. No doubt, if the Clergy had to apply to the same parties for paw =tent as they did last year, the same results might be expected to follow ; but under the per- manent Tithe Composition Act, which passed last session, theeiergymen would, in future, have to apply—not to the occupying tenantry, Ins; to the leaseholders and owners of the land—persons in a situation of life welt able to pay, and from whom payment could be enforced. It must be remembered that if those parties did not pay the clergyman, a receiver of their rents could be appointed till the amount legally due was paid.

Mr. Slimy bad not the slightest hope that the money would be repaid.

It was unreasonable to suppose that what this Government, and the Clergy, acting in concert, could not, on their own admission accomplish, should be effected by the Clergy in different parts of the country, single-handed and alone. Besides, all the arrears had been remitted. The grant would act, in fact, as a premium for resistance. He believed Lord Althorp to be incapable of practis- ing a fraud on the House; but it appeared as if he had shut his eyes to reason and common sense.

In the whole of this bill, he sent the deepest animosity to the Church ; and with all respect to Mr. Littleton, he must say, that bad Mr. Stan- ley continued in office, he did not think this bill would have been in- troduced. It would destroy the future influence, respectability, and ex- istence of the Irish Church. The money must be given as a free gift, or it would undoubtedly be rejected by the Irish Clergy.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, the bill had been introduced to relieve, not to persecute the Clergy. He was surprised at Mr. Shaw's remarks.

Mr. ACLIOSBV said, that the bill, if passed, would be one of the most vicious measures ever enacted by a British Legislature.

On the motion of Lord ALTHORP, the debate was adjourned till Monday.

In the House of Lords last night, the Duke of RICHMOND, on the presentation of a petition from some London merchants relative to the

communication by the Post-office with foreign countries, took occasion to comment upon Mr. Wallace's statements on this subject in the House of Commons, in the following terms.

" The department which I have the honour of being the bead, has been at- tacked on many occasions. I can only say I have made every inquiry into the charges, and have reason for believing they have no foundation in fact. If I did not feel it were wrong for a Peer of Parliament to answer that which has been asserted in another niece, I would show that the honourable member for Greenock was wrong in his statements; and that he has not acted towards me with that feeling of candour which one gentleman has a right to capect front another."

Mr. WALLACE, at the morning sitting of the House this day, after expressing his astonishment at the Duke of Richmond's observations, said, that before he brought forward his late motion respecting the Post- office, he had mentioned his intention to the Duke of Richmond, with whom he also had an interview on the subject. After that, he had written twice to the Duke, but received no reply.

It certainly might happen that those letters had not reached the noble Duke ; but, in common courtesy, he ought to have instituted an inquiry before he made a statement in Parliament affecting his (Mr. Wallace's) character. He held papers in his hand which would clearly prove the accuracy of his state- ments and conduct, and the purity of motives by which he had been influenced ; and if any member, by repeating the charge, would give him an opportunity of defending himself, he would feel obliged. But, under present circumstances, he must say that he thought he had just cause of complaint. Accusations had been levelled at his character in another place, such as no man in any station in so- ciety, either public or private, ever dared to make before, and such as out of that House he would never put up with. (,, Hear, ]tear!") Lord ALTRORP expressed his conviction that there had been some mistake in this business. .

Mr. CRAWFORD, the new member for London, took the oaths and his seat this day.