18 FEBRUARY 1854, Page 11

POSTSCRIPT.

SATURDAY.

The business set down for the House of Commons last night was the Navy Estimates; but Mr. LAYARD interposed his discussion—h la Clan- ricarde, only with more Oriental force—on the Eastern question; which he rested entirely on a survey of the blue-books. So far the main body of the debate resembled that in the Upper House. Mr. Layard was met with all the weight and power of Sir JAMES GRAHAM. Lord JOCELYN and Lord DUDLEY STUART occupied the House for a space; Mr. Ron- BUCK, contending against great bodily weakness, interposed a rapid sur- vey of the actual transactions, from which he drew a justification of Min- isters; and alter Lord JOHN RUSSELL'S speech, which constituted the real point of interest, Mr. Dismam arranged a compromise, on which the debate was adjourned.

At the outset of his speech, Mr. LAYARD said it was necessary to examine the previous conduct of Ministers, in order to ascertain "how far vacillation and indecision may have brought us into the straits in which we now are ; and how far the previous conduct of the Government warrants our placing confidence in them for the future." (Cheers.) This was directly met by Sir JAMES GRAHAM. Ministers would not throw themselves on the indu/genee of the House, but would appeal to its justice and wisdom. If its confidence had been forfeited by Ministers, let the issue be fairly joined. Mr. Layard spoke in the tone of an accuser—he said he had made out his case. He talked of " excuses" : "now I am not pre- pared to offer any excuses." (Cheers.) Don't deal with this ques- tion as an ordinary question of going into Committee of Supply. "If honourable gentlemen opposite think that we are unfit to con- duct these transactions, let them say so, and say it manfully. (Cheers.) Do not let them weaken the hands of Government, while they continue to intrust us with these affairs." (Continued cheering.) Ministers are pre- pared for war. The quarrel has now become an European quarrel, and must have an European settlement. (Cheers.) We ask for 20,000 more men for the Army and Navy ; we propose to add two millions to our expenditure— "amid is this an occasion on which you should potter over blue-books ?" (Loud cheers.) Put us on our trial, but let the complaint have a substantive form. We are now discussing the miserable question that the Speaker do leave the chair—" I beg pardon of the House that on such a motion I should have occupied them so long." At the close of his speech, Mr. ROEBUCK may be said to have substituted for Mr. Layard's hostile summons a frank question to Ministers of real na- tional interest. " I want," he said, "a full and explicit answer to the question, what do they intend to do ?—in order that we may be in a position to say, that we will support them, or that we will not." Lord Jonw RUSSELL, after the very generous and very wise speech of the honourable Member for Sheffield," could have no hesitation in giving that information so properly, asked for on so grave and important an occa- sion. Lord Jelin censured the course taken by "his honourable friend" Mr. Layard. The House might have taken three courses. It might have voted that Ministers had committed so many errors in their former policy as not to be fit guides in the war; it might have said, "You have committed errors, and might have made better alliances, but we will waive those ques- tions of difficulty, and vote the Estimates for the year " ; or it might have said, without entering into any question about the negotiations, "We will wait to see our grounds of confidence in the vigour and judgment with which the war may be prosecuted." But Mr. Layard made out a case of censure, then gave Ministers a pass for their errors, and allowed the votes. Lord John followed Sir James Graham in challenging the House to give its censure or its confidence.

He also surveyed the blue-books, to show that the want of straightfor- wardness was on the side of Russia' that the deliberation of Ministers had not been vacillation or delay ; and that they could not refrain from sustain- ing the principles from which they set out, unless they desired to let Russia, by means of menace or force or "by lavish diplomacy," render Turkey ut- terly prostrate, and had thus consented "to compliment away the independ- ence of Turkey." Lord John stated the position and intentions of Ministers. "In the first place, there has been an exchange of notes between England and France, promising to cooperate together in giving assistance to Turkey, and decla- ring on the part of both powers that no selfish interest—no increase of terri- tory or power—is sought by either nation in the prosecution of this design." The two powers feel that Turkey has been cruelly outraged ; and that her independence must be secured. 'But, Sir, this cause involves still more. It is to maintain that peace of Europe of which the Emperor of Russia is the wanton disturber—it is to throw back upon the head of that disturber the con- sequences which he has so violently and I believe so imprudently invoked— it is to maintain the independence not only of Turkey but of Germany and of all European nations." The state of Germany for these few years past has been one not dependent upon Russia, but with an independence not very loudly as- serted. He referred to what past in Paris last year, when the Earl of Malmes- bury, learning that the new occupant of the French throne meant to be faithful to the engagements of the country over which he was called upon to reign, signified, on the "part of this country, the Queen's willing and ready recog- nition. "But the powers of Germany acted very differently. They thought it advisable to wait until the Emperor of Russia had declared his mind upon the subject. The mind of the Emperor of Russia was, that the Emperor of the French might be acknowledged, but that, not being descended from a line which had for centuries occupied the throne, the Emperor of Russia could not call the Emperor of the French his brother. (Laughter.) The Emperor of the French had too much good sense to attach any very great importance to whether he was called 'my good friend' or 'my bro- ther'; but the Powers of Germany one and all desired their Ministers to wait. This shows that the state of Germany is not one of complete independence." Nevertheless, lie could not help thinking that this violation of right and jus- tice has roused both in Austria and Prussia a sense that they must in future consider the welfare of Europe, and not merely the preservation of the friend- ship of the Emperor of Russia. (Cheers.) Although not bound with us in any manner to resist this attempt of Russia, he believed that that great na- fion, divided into separate states—" with its thirty-five millions of people, with its enlightenment, with its civilization—would take care that the aggression of Russia does not become so formidable as to threaten the independence of all other powers." He believed, therefore that if they have not the immediate assistance of Austria and Prussia, those states will look on—" not to engage themselves to Russia, but, on the contrary, to use all their influence, and, if necessary, their arms, to stop her in her attempted progress of aggrandizement." Lord John re- newed the assurances that the conduct of the Emperor of the French "has been so loyal, so frank, so straightforward, that it is impossible not to place the utmost reliance upon his sincerity and good faith."

Lord John announced that Ministers would think it necessary, in the Esti- mates of the year, to ask no less than three millions more than they did last year. But he called upon the House either to place the Government in other hands, or to give confidence to the present Ministers. "Recollect that suc- cess in war depends upon secrecy—depends upon combination—depends upon rapidity—and that it is inconsistent with explanations upon the operations of the war," If the people are not prepared to bear the increased burdens necessary for the effort, let them not enter into this war. If they do, let them endeavour to carry it to a successful issue. If the Emperor of Russia should recede from his former demands, and should acknowledge the independence and integrity of Turkey, "we shall all rejoice to be spared the pain, the efforts, and the burdens of this war : but if that is not to be done—if peace is no longer consistent with our duty to England, with our duty to Europe, with our duty to the world—if this enormous power has got to such a pitch that even its moderation is more ambitious than the ambition of other states—if Russia will not be content with anything less than the subjugation of the whole empire of Turkey and the :possession of Constantinople itself,—if such are her means and such are her objects, we can only endeavour to enter into this contest with a stout heart. May God defend the right ! and I, for my part, shall be willing to bear my share of the burden and responsibility." (Great and prolonged cheering.)

Mr. COBDEN and Mr. H. Bentin moved the adjournment of the debate. Lord Join: RUSSELL hoped the House would not separate without voting the required men. Upon this Mr. DISRAELI explained, that he would rather have taken the discussion after the Navy Estimates if he had had the con- trol of the arrangement; but after the speech of Sir James Graham, he thought the debate had better be continuous. He added, that foreign nations would see that there would be no difference of opinion as to the number of men that will be voted, or with respect to anything that may be requisite in the prosecution of a just war.

On these conditions, Lord J mix agreed to adjourn the debate.

Amongst the preliminary business Colonel BOLDERO renewed his mo- tion on behalf of increased accommodation for the assistant-surgeons of the Navy. Sir JAMES GRAHAM resisted the motion, with the usual a/le- gation of " difficulties " ; and, after a debate, it was negatived, by 216 to 104.

In the House of Peers, the Earl of EoLrxrow, disclaiming hostility to the system of National Education in Ireland, moved for a Select Com- mittee to inquire into its working ; an inquiry rendered necessary by the circumstances which led to the withdrawal of the Archbishop of Dublin, llfr. Blackburn°, and Mr. Green. The Earl of ABEUDEFAT was at first disposed to resist the motion, as to indicate any doubts of the inestimable benefits conferred on Ireland by the National system would be attended with unfortunate consequences: but as the system would lose nothing by inquiry, and as Lord Eglinton disclaimed hostility, he would consent In proof that the progress of the system had not suffered the slightest detriment by the retirement of Dr. 1Thately, Lord Aberdeen cited these figures—On the 31st of December 1852, the number of schools was 4963; on the 31st December 1853, it was 5075, being an increase of 112 in the course of twelve months : the number of scholars in 1852 was 544,604; in 1853 it was 565,760. After some debate, the motion was agreed to.

The Navy and Army Estimates have been published in the usual de- tail. The Estimates for the Navy provide for 41,000 seamen, 2000 boys 15.500 marines. The total expense is 7,487,948!.; being an increase of 1,202,455/. over the expense of last year.

The Army Estimates provide for 112,977 men and officers for the year 1854-'55; being an increase of 10,694. The money-vote for effective and non-effective services amounts to 6,287,486L; showing an excess of 262,4701. over the vote of last year. The Ordnance Estimates amount to 3,845,878!.; being an increase over last year of 792,3111.

A telegraphic despatch from Constantinople, dated "Feb. 2," states that the appointment of laza Pasha, as Seraskier, has been very well re- ceived by the public and the army. "The new Seraskier has decided on turning 30,000 Bashi Bozouks, or irregulars, into regular troops, and on sending them to the army in Asia. He has also decided on admitting Christians into the service.

"The attitude of Persia is again disquieting. M. Khanikolf [Russian agent] had returned to Tabriz from Teheran, where he had left hislarge staff of officers. Prince Dolgorouki seems to recover his old influence over the Shah."

Another telegraphic despatch from Constantinople, dated "Feb. 7," says—" Seven large English and four French steamers went yesterday into the Black Sea, convoying eight Turkish steamers and ten sailing ves- sels, with 7000 troops and ammunition, to Batoum. One English and one French steamer have gone to Varna."

The Emperor of the French has forwarded a sum of 100,000 francs to the Prefect of Police for distribution at the residences of artisans out of work and the needy families of the capital.

The Bishop of London issued a judgment yesterday in the case of the Minor Canons of St. Paul's Cathedral, argued before him in January last. He requires the Dean and Chapter to prepare a plan for the disposal of the benefices in their gift or patronage, according to the provisions contained in the 47th section of the 3d and 4th Victoria.