MAN IN THE MIRROR

Petronella Wyatt talks to Piers Morgan about

sex, politics and why Cherie Blair is trying to get him sacked

AT 37, Piers Morgan of the Daily Mirror is one of Fleet Street's youngest editors. His career has been one upward trajectory. After being Rupert Murdoch's golden boy on the News of the World, he voluntarily left to take over the ailing Mirror in 1995, which put the big Australian nose out of joint. This year the Mirror was voted newspaper of the year in the British Press awards.

Morgan's career, however, has not been without controversy. There have been recent rumours that he dabbled in insiderdealing. What, moreover, is a middle-class, public-school-educated, former 'Thatcherite doing editing the last left-wing red-top tabloid? Is he a hypocrite? Is it all a pose? Should he be spanked firmly on his wellsuited bottom?

I went to see him in the Mirror's gleaming office in Canary Wharf tower. Unlike many tabloid editors, he does not slouch in his chair but leaps up to greet me. He is tall, good-looking and smartly but not flashily dressed — the sort of man you would like your mother to meet. That is, if she wasn't an Independent reader. There are no pictures of Mirror scandal scoops or naked knockers on the walls, but there is a signed Gordon Brown tie hanging in a glass case. Since 11 September, Morgan — once known as Piers 'Moron' by his enemies — has tried to take the Mirror upmarket in an attempt to stop its decline. These days you are as likely to find stories of famine on the front page as a celebrity in distress.

I ask Morgan what made him take this momentous decision, and whether it is paying off. He runs his hands through a thick mop of brown hair. `I decided to take the Mirror more upmarket after 11 September. Before that, I tried to take on the Sun on its own agenda, but this failed because Mirror readers are different.'

Are they, in what way? Do they not like sex?

'You can clear the front page for a famine story for them and they buy it, unlike with Sun readers. Circulation had fallen for 20 years. Our core audience are still predominantly left-wing and more humane, and have a social conscience. Quite a lot of Sun readers are racist. It's taken me quite a while to get up the courage to do this.'

I inquire whether the paper has sold better. `It worked after 11 September and we sold really well. Sales are now rock solid and beginning to grow. Now they are just over 2.1 million.'

This doesn't sound a great deal. What is the lowest it has ever been? Morgan admits. `This is as low as it's been for 30 years, but we are stopping that decline.'

The Mirror is certainly a much better read these days. Although he has some way to go, Morgan might take it back to its glory days under Hugh Cudlipp, especially now that the Sun has boringly sold out to Blair. The Mirror, at least, has the courage to attack the government.

`The Sun is not independent,' Morgan says. The Mirror has never been more offmessage, while the Sun has never been more on-message. It is a Blair paper at a time when the public is drifting more and more away from Blair.'

I wonder what he thinks of its editor, David Yelland? 'I hate Yelland, and I don't respect him as an editor as he is a toady of No. 10. He doesn't reflect public opinion. Our readers are dissatisfied with this government.'

Why doesn't he turn it into the only Tory red-top then? `They don't want a Tory government. We can't support the Tories.' I point out that he voted for Thatcher and supported her on the News of the World. Has he been doing some conscience cutting to fit the job description? Is he a swiz?

'Yes, I voted for Thatcher and then ran the News of the World. But I do have more of a conscience now. If you grow up as a middle-class Sussex boy, it takes time to get one. It's not a pose. You do change. Of course it is not impossible to be a Tory and have a social conscience. I think Duncan Smith has one, but he's not a great leader.'

I persist on asking him how, as a Thatcherite, he can approve of all this runaway public spending. 'Possibly I'm still a Thatcherite on economics. Blair is not Thatcher. He hasn't delivered.'

And how does Morgan rate him as a person? `His emoting now grates with the public. He is a performer. He is almost like his Rory Bremner caricature.'

Should he remain as PM, then? 'I think it will come to a head. From my conversations with Cabinet ministers, I gather there is this mood.'

And who would the Mirror support if Blair fell under the political bus? If it happened, I think Brown would make a brilliant Labour premier for Mirror readers. He sees it as his destiny and is a genuine person with no interest in the trappings of power. I talk to him a lot.'

Have Mirror readers gone off Blair, too? 'I think Blair has lost track of what the Mirror reader cares about. Iraq could be a factor. I would be strongly against any move against Saddam which involves British troops.'

Here I stop him. How can this Sussex boy be so anti-American? Surely that at least is put on? He looks at me sincerely and responds, `I'm not against the ideas of the US, but I am concerned about Bush personally, not because he is a Republican but because he is thick. Mirror readers aren't anti-American. But Bush's foreign policy is covering up his failures on the domestic front. I think he is dangerous.'

Now Morgan has the bit between his teeth: 'Blair appears to be Bush's poodle, which is why we have been on his case about it. We want to see him stand up to him. He does it for publicity purposes. I can't believe that when Tony Blair was young he wouldn't have felt anything but contempt for Bush.' Then he sinks back into his chair and takes a sip of water.

Talking of personal ideals and all that, I move on to Morgan's own. He has been taken to task for saying he intends to send his two sons to public school, something his readers cannot afford to do.

Morgan tends to answer with rhetorical questions like Alfred Doolittle. `Is this hypocrisy? No. The schools are better. My readers don't make the money I do, but I don't call it hypocrisy. You'd be a fool not to take advantage. The government must improve the state system. I benefited hugely from going to a prep school. Look at Blair; he says we are getting education right, but he is abusing the system himself and hiring private tutors in secret. He should have said whether Leo had had the MMR jab. He is the Prime Minister. He wheels his son out for photo-calls. I don't. And I don't deny my intentions.'

But have any readers written in to berate him? 'I don't think the readers give a monkey's what I do with my life. If I were prime minister, I would behave differently. Most journalists are morally bankrupt. I make no bones about this. That is how the public sees us. But they expect something different from politicians. We are right to go after them on policy hypocrisy.'

Given Morgan's extremely outspoken views and his admirable determination not to toe the No. 10 line, I wonder what his relationship is like with the prickly Cherie, if he has one at all? I do not realise that here I have lit a powder keg. Morgan's pleasant and amiable face reddens.

'Cherie Blair, I have a very hard relationship with. She has caused a lot of the problems between Tony and the media. She is too aggressive. She bestows her patronage and then removes it on a whim. Let me give you an example. We had a Barnardo's campaign appeal — she is president of the charity — that was going to run in this paper with her endorsement, and at the last minute it was taken from us and given to the News of the World. Apparently she had been upset about our leaders on Stephen Byers. Why do that at a time when our relationship is fractious anyway?'

How fractious? 'Every time she sits next to one of my bosses she tries to get me fired. Blair is more sensible and understanding that we can't arse lick. She takes it as a personal betrayal. She is too political. But she hasn't got me fired and it doesn't do her husband any favours for her to go around demanding the heads of editors. I said to Blair recently I would appreciate it if you stopped the missus trying to get me sacked.' He roars with laughter.

Given his intention to make the Mirror more serious, will we stop reading about people's sex lives? 'It's increasingly pointless to write about a politician's sex life. Readers aren't interested any more. I began to notice this about four years ago. In any case, if you don't bang on about family values, you are entitled to privacy. I think papers respect that more now.'

Morgan seems a force for good. This probably means that, as well as Cherie, he is hated by Alastair Campbell. How often does he speak to Campbell?

'I don't speak to him as often as I did, especially as he has now taken a back seat.' This is a short retort.

'Is No. 10 putting pressure on you to toe the line using threats of this insider-dealing story, Piers?' He hesitates and then says, 'It has a ring of truth to it, but they are not that stupid.'

But what about the allegations that he dabbled in insider-dealing? Are they true? More rhetorical questions follow.

'Is the inquiry still active? I don't know. Do I wish it had never happened? Yes. Was it deliberate? No. Was I a prat? Yes. Would Blair use it as a stick to beat me with? I don't think so. Would Cherie have me jailed tomorrow and throw away the key? Yes. I expect Derry Irvine has been instructed to come up with new insider-dealing laws to appease Cherie so I would never see the light of day again.'

At that moment the telephone rings. Morgan picks it up. 'My God,' he says gobsmacked. 'It's Cherie Blair on the line. You just couldn't make it up, could you?' I think he is pulling my leg, but it turns out to be true. We both collapse with laughter. Morgan, barely able to speak, stutters to his secretary that he will call her back. When he has got his breath back he says, 'That is quite comical. Maybe she has come to her senses.'

I want to know whether he thinks Blair and Campbell and Murdoch are all in it together, exchanging support for deals.

'Are Murdoch and Blair in it together: support in exchange for deals on digital, etc? With the Sun, I remember Blair saying to me he would rather be riding the tiger's back than having it rip his throat out. On one level they knew what the Sun did to Kinnock and they wanted to avoid it. So they relentlessly sucked up to the Murdoch empire. They then ignored us. So we said, -Fuck that for a game of soldiers." But they'll lose out in the long-term, because someone like Yelland will always be supporting the government because he likes going to dinners and appearing on the Today programme,'

Poor old Yelland. What will Morgan do? 'Our readers know we're not anti-Labour but that we will take them to task. That is how this paper should be. Murdoch will do what he feels like, anyway. He has no loyalty towards politicians. I think the love affair with Blair is probably over on his side. He now comments favourably on Brown.'

Then he is back on Cherie. She appears to be his King Charles head. I suppose it boils down to his or hers, as it were. 'Cherie causes trouble between Blair and Brown because she hates him. If you live next door, you have to get on with your neighbour. The Blair bubble is bursting.'

Morgan bangs his cup firmly on the table. He looks like a young man with a purpose, all right. If I were Tony I would watch out — and watch my wife's manners too.