24 DECEMBER 1836, Page 12

IRISH TITHES AND POOR-LAWS.

THE speech of the Reverend Mr. O'MALLEY in the National Association of Ireland, on the subject of Tithes and Poor-laws, has been justly praised, by men of all parties, for the ability it displays. We are not quite satisfied that the reverend gentle- man is entitled to equal credit on the score of candour. Some- thing, we suspect, lurks behind his plan for the preservation of tithes, which he does not deem it prudent to uncover. His pro- position is—" Let tithes be abolished as a provision for priest or parson, but let them be preserverinviolate as a sacred provision for the poor of the flocks of both."i He would allow of no deduc- tion from the amount of the tithes except so far as such deduc- tion might arise from a reopening of the compositions. Redemp- tion of tithes forms no part of his scheme, and he would doubt. less oppose it. Mr. O'MALLEY labours to invest tithes with a sacred character, in order to justify his plan for preserving them entire in amount. Though the Legislature may modify " the relations of parsons and tithes, and may even go the length of abolishing by hun- dreds the parsons themselves," yet he contends, that as long as the rights of property are regarded, the Legislature " never will presume to say, let tithes be abolished." Clem we hope and be- lieve that Mr. O'MALLEY will find himself mistaken.) " Tithes," he continues, " are, in fact, not only a property, bat the oldest property in the country. They are a lien upon the land, ofa date anterior to any existing tenure : and yet it is of such a property some persons would affect to make a sort of ferceito tura animal, which, never-having belonged to any one, becomes for the first time the property of him that first knocks it on the head ! There is not one landlord in the whole island that has the slightest title to a tenth of the land, or of the produce of the land which he holds in his hands, or has leased out to tenants ; for, from time immemorial, or prior to any title-deed now existing, that was reserved. If, then, the lessor had no title to that tenth, it is clear the lessee could have none either ; so that, if both conspire in abolishing it, they conspire to the prejudice of a third party,—namely, that of the People at large, (of which the Church has been hitherto the representative and the trustee,) in whose favour the reservation was made ; and, however that trustee may have dishonoured her trust, and usurped the property in her keeping wholly to her- self, is that an excuse for two other usurpers, stronger than she, wresting the spoil from her bands, and sharing it amongst themselves?"

He denies that the lay impropriations should be taken as pre- cedents for abolition of tithes; for in all such impropriations, it was expressly stipulated that out of the funds granted sufficient should be reserved to secure the performance of Church sei vice : but he maintains, that the modern abolition scheme would be a wholesale impropriation without restriction or limit. It will be asked how, with these opinions. Mr, O'MALLEY can propose to make over the tithes from the clergy to the people? He is pro- vided with an answer, which can hardly, we should think, satisfy himself.

"Let us bear in mind, that the priests are not the old church, nor the par • eons the new one ; but the people, whether Protestant or Catholic, are in a fuller sense the representatives of their respective churches. But more espe- cially, let us bear in mind—what is far more important to remember, as it is infinitely more touching to contemplate—that in the sublime theory of Chris- tian charity, the poor of our whole people, indiscriniinately, are the liring re- presentatives of that same Christ, the Redeemer, whom both those churches worship alike—if not alike in outward form, yet alike, let us hope, 'in spirit and in truth.' Here, then, is the bond of union and of peace to which my pro- position would point: let tithes be abolished wholly as a provision whether for priest or parson, but let them be preserved inviolable as a sacred provision for the poor of the united flocks of both."

Mr. O'MALLEY'S notions respecting tithes are none of the clearest. He maintains the right of Parliament to take them

from the clergy—to divert them from the purpose to which at any

rate the greater portion has been devoted for centuries : be insists on the power of the Legislature to exercise one of the absolute rights

of ownership with respect to them ; yet be denies that they can be abolished by Parliament, and contends that they are "inviolable." He says "they are the oldest property" in the country. Property

must have an owner ; and Mr. O'MALLEY considers that the People are the owners of the tithes : but yet he will not allow that the aggregate People—that is, the State— the Legis- lature—can deal with them as its own so far as to merge them entirely. We contend that clerical tithes are public property, which the Legislature can fairly devote to any public use; and with this opinion, we can consistently support a plan for converting tithes or their produce into a provision for the poor. But Mr. O'MALLEY, who takes such high ground in defence of the sacredness of tithe property, that he denies the right of the Legislature even to diminish it, is pushed very hard indeed to defend his scheme for transferring tithes from the Church to the Poor. Does he not hope, that in some future revolution of the political wheel, the priests of the old religion may be enabled to reclaim their own, and would then regret to see the tithe cut down some forty or fifty per cent, or entirely abolished? A great part of Mr. O'MALLEY'S speech is successfully em- ployed in demonstrating the advantages which would arise to the People of. Ireland by doing away with tithes as a provision for the Protestant parson; and he put the argumentum ad erumenam very forcibly to the landlords, who would not object to lighten the inevitable burden of a Poor-law by the amount of the tithe. At great length he described the advantages and the necessity of a legal provision for the poor; and combated with much skill and learning the assertions that it would destroy the independence, lower the wages, cr impair the kindly feelings of the poor. We never read a speech of Mr. O'CONNELL'S which did him so little credit as that which he delivered in reply to Mr. O'MAL- LEY. He proved how inadequate to the support of the Irish poor the whole amount of the tithe would be, but left the stronger parts of O'MALLEY'S case unimpaired. In endeavouring to show that poor- laws lowered wages, he got into a scrape which it is strange so dexterous a disputant should not have avoided.

"A friend of mine," said Mr. O'Connell, "who conducts as able and honest press as is to be found in any country, basso far deluded himself as to furnish me with one of my best arguments. I allude to an article published in the Morning Register of the 29th of November, in which I find tables introduced regarding stages, for the purpose of showing that the acquisitions of the indus- trious classes have not been affected by poor-laws. In the first of these tables, I Sod that wages, measured in pints of wheat, were, in the year 1495, as high as 199 pints. I come down to the year 1610—that is nine years after the in- traluction of the 413d of Elizabeth, and I find that the 199 pints had fallen to 46 pints. Need I desire more to convince me that I am right on this question ?" (Loud cheers from a portion of the meeting.) Mr. Staunton—" The fall was far greater in proportion before than after the 431 of Elizabeth ; and 1 would recommend my learned friend to withhold hie conclusion until he comes to the bottom of the table." (Equal cheers from another portion of the meeting.) Mr. O'Connell—" 1 find that, coming down to 1832, the 46 had risen to 90; but does this equal the fall from 199 In 46?" (Loud cheers.) Mr. Stauntun—" The question can be satisfactorily answered at the proper time."

Mr. O'Connell—" Things are worse, if we look to the artisan classes : the fall, in their regard, has been from 292 to 61."

Mr. Staunton—" Look to the bottom of the table."

Mr. O'Connell—" It is 265."

Mr. Staunton—" Yes, wages, which were at the period of the 43d of Elisa- beth 61, had advanced in 1832 to 265."

Mr. O'Connell—" But this was the case as regarded artisans whose earnings depended on the unrivalled progress of English manufactures."

And had the state of the manufacturing labour-market nothing to do with the fall of wages, as well as the rise?

Mr. O'CONNELL'S panaceas for Irish evils are—goad govern- tnent, employment for the people, and the prevention of absentee- ism by prohibiting the same person from holding estates in both countries ! In the whole of this Poor-law and Tithe de- bate, the speakers narrowed their ground, and shut their eyes to an extensive and statesmanlike view of the subject. With the Report of the Poor-law Commissioners before them, and with the Report of the Colonial Lands Committee also at hand, scarcely an allusion was made to Emigration. Mr. O'MALLEY really seemed to think, that all that was necessary to put an end to pauperism in Ireland, was the judicious distribution of half a million a year in parochial relief. If there ever was a point rendered perfectly clear, it is, that without emigration all attempts to relieve the miseries of the Irish must be ineffectual. Connect emigration with employ- ment for the able-bodied and legal relief to the sick and helpless, and you may hope to achieve the regenemtion of Ireland; but un- less an impression be made at once on the mass of wretchedness, by removing the sufferers by the hundred thousand, the disease will keep ahead of the physician.

With respect to the tithe, we. as our readers know, would gladly see it transferred from the Church to the Poor,—that is, abolish Tithes, and impose a Poor-rate ; and would compensate the owners of vested interests by payments out of the general revenue of the country. But, having converted the tithe-levy into a land-tax, we would encourage its redemption on favourable terms to the landowners, in order to get rid of every trace of tithe as soon as possible. It should not be allowed to remain in any ahape as a bone of contention to future factions in Church or State or as a memento of ecclesiastical oppression to the Catholics. The produce of the land-tax might form the basis of a poor-fund, to be administered by a General Board, responsible to Parliament ; and we agree with Mr. O'MALLEY, that it is in some respects an advantage, that in Ireland there is no Poor-law machinery—no jobbers under an old system, as in England, interested in thwarting the operation of the new.