Notwithstanding the excessive pressure of business in Parlia- ment, two,

or rather three nights of the present week, were wholly or partially lost. On Tuesday and Friday the House of Com- mons failed to muster its working number of forty members, and on Wednesday nothing was done. The Sugar-duties were con- sidered on Monday.; when Mr. Husicissost made a severe attack on the scheme of Ministers, which was received with a meekness and patience altogether surprising. On Thursday, the Chancery Bill was dis tunity of speeche equally s as fee 1 ford CA same ni quietly were co and aftbrded to Mr. BROUGHAM an oppor:- e of the most brilliant and characteristic ade for some years. Ministers were not s infliction, but their defence was nearly y. Mr. O'CostNELL's letter to the Water- subject of general animadversion on the her for Clare did not take his baiting so ad done theirs, although his opponents numerous, 1. SUGAR DUTIES. In a Committee of Ways and Means, the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQIYER moved the reading of the fol- lowing Resolution,

-!' That it i,s the opinion of this Committee, that towards raising the sup- ply granted to his Majesty, there shall be charged the following duties upon sugar imported into the United Kingdom ; that is to say-

" Upon all brown, or Muscovado, or clayed sugar, being the produce of, and imported from the British possessions in America, or the island of Mauritius, according to the average price of brown or Muscovado sugar, published in the manner directed by law, viz. :-If the value of such sugar shall exceed such average price by more than one shilling the cwt., 1/. 7s. If such sugar shall not exceed in value such average price by more than one shilling the cwt., IL Sr. 6d. If such sugar shall be of less value than such average price by two shillings the cwt., 11.4s. If such sugar shall be of less value than such average price by four shillings the cwt., 1/. 2s. 6d. If such sugar shall be of less value than such average price by five shillings the cwt., 1/.

" Upon all brown, Muscovado, or clayed sugar, the produce of, and imported from the British possessions in the East Indies, the cwt., 1/.17s. Upon all other such sugar, the produce of, or imported from any other places, the cwt., 3/. 3s." •

Mr. HUSKISSON opposed the resolution, as the most incompre- hensible and least practicable measure ever submitted to the House.

" The proposition, if I understand it right, goes to reduce the duty on all sugars of a certain description of quality and price, from twenty-seven shillings to twenty shillings; and my right honourable friend alleged, as the reason for the reduction, the distressed state of the West India Co- lonies. The resolution professes to relieve the distressed Colonists of the West Indies ; but that distress from these peculiar circumstances prevails to an infinitely greater extent by comparison in the old colonies than the new ; and the resolution, therefore, by endeavouring to extend the sale of the coarse sugar produced by the new colonies, tends of course to exag- gerate the distress, to perpetuate the burthens, and to increase the diffi- culties of the old colonies, where relief is known to be most required. The islands of Barbadoes and Antigua, although two of the most fertile of the old colonies, are known not to produce more than one-third of the sugar grown upon lands of the same extent in the richer and more fertile new colony of Demerara; and, therefore, the proposition which goes to increase the sale of the sugar of the new colony diminishes in a proportionate extent the demand for the limited produce of the old colo- nies ; which must, from the circumstances of that limitation, be most in need of its assistance. Before I go further, however, I would ask the right honourable gentleman to explain to me the meaning and bearing of the resolution which he has proposed. Notwithstanding that it had been ex- tensively circulated and amply considered, I know, from the best informa- tion, that there is not a man in this City, whatever may be his situation, planter or merchant, buyer or seller, or broker, who thoroughly under- stands the manner in which the right honourable gentleman proposes to bring his plan into operation. Suiar, it is well known, is sold at what is called the long price-that is, the price including the duty. Now, to take the first instance, supposing that a man sold his sugar at 54s., or at 47s., he would in the end obtain just the same price. If he sold his wear as worth 54s. it would be considered 7s. better, and the duty paid must he the high one ; so that in fact as the duty in one case might be only 20g. and in the other 27s., the price obtained by the planter might be just the same. This, however, is not the only difficulty which these resolutions produce. I would ask the right honourable gentleman in what possible way he can hope to °heel, thar fraud and collusion to which they hold out so much temptation. Sugar is not sold in small quantities, but generally in very con- siderable lots, of perhaps fifty or one hundred hogsheads at a time. Was this purchase, then, to be made with no better consideration as to quality and price than some fifty or one hundred sheep in Smithfield Market? Some sugars are worth 30s., some are worth 60s. How are the gradations of the right honourable gentleman's scale to be established ? If the whole fifty hogsheads are purchased at 20s., is a broker to be at liberty to pick out a hogshead, and say, I like this : and is he to take it at the price of the others ? How did the right honourable gentleman propose to guard himself against tricks of this kind? Is a valuation to be upon each hogs- head of a whole lot? How are the duties to be paid ? Are they to paid when the purchaser pleases ? If that be so, then the purchaser will watch his time, tender his duty when the price is low, keep the sugar till the price rises, and then sell it at a great gain to himself and a great loss to the revenue. Again, in taking the averages, how is the right honour- able gentleman to guard against the lowest duty on the primest sugar ? These and fifty other modes of trick and evasion will be resorted to for the purpose of defeating the object of the right honourable gentleman's plan. I can coneeive too many cases in which, from the nature of the right ho- nourable gentleman's scale, it will be utterly impossible to ascertain at what price the sugar is sold, or what is the duty payable on it. Suppose the Chancellor of the Exchequer to be a seller of sugar, and that he has a broker dealing with him for a purchase. Sugars, as I have observed be- fore, are always sold at the long price. Well, the price agreed upon in the case I put, is 52s. The Customhouse officer appears to take his part in the transaction, and the seller, as usual, demands an account of the duty he has to pay. The average price of the duty, be it recollected, I would assume to be 25s. Now, the price at which the sugar was sold being 26s. 6d., the duty to be deducted would be 25s. 6d. The resolutions of the right honourable gentleman say, however, that if the price be more than a shilling above the average, the duty must be 27s. This would leave the seller only 25s. Now, under the new system, utrum horum, which is the price ? If they pay on the net price, the duty is 27s. If they pay on the gross, it is 25s. 6d. I think the result will be in many cases to force the Government to become the purchasers of all sugars in the market. How this Government is to dispose of the sugars after they have purchased them, is another consideration. If a seller chooses to dispose of his sugars at 25s., and the Government officer thinks they are worth 26s., what then. I ask, is to be the result, except that the Government must become the purchaser of all the sugars that are brought to sale? These are a few, but not all the objections I find to this plan. With respect to the drawback, I have other and more serious objections. Does my right honourable friend mean to say that he Will continue to pay a drawback of 6s, or 7s. the hundredweight on all sugars exported from this country ? The plan now before us will lower the price of all the higher description of sugars; but it cannot possibly raise the price of the lower, and we shall in future have to pay a drawback, not on a duty of 27s., but on a duty of 211" After stating further objections to Mr. Goulburn's plan, Mr. Huskisson proceeded to recommend that of Mr. C. Grant. He then enlarged on the peculiar hardships to which the West India proprietors had been exposed for very many years. " I am bound to say, while I thus claim for the West, Indies some rei

lief from the Legislature, that, since the duties which I wished reduced were first imposed, we have passed laws with regard to their property, which, however wise, prudent, politic, and humane they may be, are yet, in a pecuniary point of view, calculated to produce a very injurious effect on their estates. I mean those laws which are applied to them as the

owners of slaves. I would take one of these laws, which I think more than Any other entitles the West Indians to claim some relief from the Govern- ment which imposed it. I allude to the law 'which prohibits the West India planter from removing his slaves from one island to another, or even from one colony to another, no matter how great may-be the de- mand or the necessity fel- such removal. I am sorry to be cempelled to discuss in a British Parliament any question having reference to a right of property in our fellow-beings. But the West Indans are placed in a very peculiar situation with respect to the estates which they cultivate. They found those estates burthened with slaves placed under their autho- rity by niany acts of the Legislature, and they are bound to regulate themstives with regard to them as property in a manner peculiar and embarrassing. I have said they cannot remove them to any other colony where they may be more useful. I may be told they can sell them if they do not want so many. But they cannut be disposed of in an kland where the land is overstocked ; and if they discontinue the cultivatien of sugar, because it is unproductive, they still further increase their difficulties, because they do not reouire one-tenth part of the number of slaves for the cultivation of any other description of produce. I may be told, how- ever, that it is in the power of the planter to emancipate the negroes if he cannot employ or support them : but there again the law interferes and prevents emancipation, unless the negro can support himself, because he must otherwise become a burthen to the community. This, then, is the state of the law—employ the negroes they cannot ; emancipate them they cannot; support them they cannot ; and there are, I know, not one, but several, islands at the present moment in which the whole produce of the land is insufficient for the support and clothing of the negroes who are necessarily retained on it." (Hmr, hear 1) Mr. Huskisson then called the attention of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to the consequences, to raorealitile men, of the changes in the financial arrangements of the country. "I implore him to consider the consequences which result from these discussions, and from this continual alternation of opinions: its effect has been to suspend all trade at this the most active period of the year. I am now standing here as the representative of, in a general sense, all the in- terests in the country ; but I am also the immediate representative of the second great commercial town in this empire ; and I speak the opinions of the great portion of the extensive and important interests of that great emporium of commerce, of all those closely bound in connexion with all the West Indian Colonies, when I say that this system of indecision, and of experiment, produces there the greatest alarm, inflicts serious injuries on commerce, and is calculated to unsettle all the transactions between man and man. Only look at time spectacle which has been produced by the way that Government have proceeded with the spirit-duties. (Hear, hear !) When the right honourable gentleman proposed to lay a duty of one shilling on British spirits, orders were of course sent out to the West Indies to make more ruin and less sugar. Is it nothing to these interests to have declarations emanating from a Government like this, taken up and abandoned without system, foresight, or consideration ? Look at the course that is pursued with regard to other articles. Three months ago it was announced that the growth of tobacco in this country would be en- couraged under certain regulations. Orders were of course sent out to America to stop the importation of tobacco in anticipation of this change. Now, however, conies a determination that tobacco shall not be grown in this country. Is it to be conceived that a vacillation of this kind does not produce the most injurious effects on the interests of individuals ? I say, Sir, it is the duty of a Government to digest its plans better, and when they are thus digested, to be more steady in its resolves. They ought to come to Parliament with a fit and proper and well-digested system of ac- tion. Their measures should be prepared in such a manner as to effect the least possible mischief to the commerce and the existing arrangements of society whenever change is rendered necessary; and when the means of that change are acted on with wisdom and foresight, they should be rigidly adhered to. In the great concerns of the general policy of this country, whether foreign or domestic, it is not fitting, that temporary diffi- culties should be ever met by temporary expedients. We cannot manage the extensive and complicated transactions of government in the same manner as we would manage an army, and put forth a law one day as a kind of advanced guard, which may be ordered to draw back the next day." (Cheers.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER wished to know whether Mr. C. Grant proposed to move his resolutions of last year, or to adhere to those which he had caused to be printed on Monday.

Mr. C. GRANT, considering the late period of the session, had no objection to abide by the resolutions of last year. It was his intention, therefore, to propose— "That the duty on West India sugar should be reduced to 20s. a cwt. "That the duty on East India sugar should he reduced to 25s. a cwt. "That all sugars should be admitted to be refined in bond without duty or drawback."

When the Chairman read the original resolution, Mr. Hums- SON moved as an amendment,

"That it is expedient that all brown, Muscovado, and plain sugars, the produce of or imported from the British dominions in America, or the island of Mauritius, be imported at a duty of 20s. a cwt.

The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then entered at great length into a defence of his plan. The substance of it was, that all new plans were attended with difficulty; and that he could not understand why an ad valorem duty might not be levied on sugars as well as on many other articles. Mr. KEITH DOUGLAS supported the amendment.

The only way to get our West India trade upon a fair footing, was to afford it protection from unfair competition, through the influence of the foreign slave-trade, and so to place our commercial transactions in a state of security, which could be only done by a real reduction of the duties. He highly approved of the taking off the seven shillings duty, but more should be done. The surplus of production above consumption should be reduced ; and this could only be effected by taking off the duties, so as to place our colonists upon a footing with the foreign importer. The surplus amount of production above consumption was now 220,000 cwt.; and until this was materially reduced, there could be no hope of relief. This being effected, he would next suggest, that if the sugars of the slave colopiea of Spain and Portugal were to be admitted into this country, a preliminary step should be to demand a pledge from these countries, that

they would use their best endeavours to put down the abominable traffic in human blood which they now unblushingly sanctioned. The sugar- trade might, under these circumstances, be extended, to the advantage of Europe, and the great interest of the British revenue.

Mr. P. THOMSON opposed the Chancellor of the Exchequer's plan.

He really should have supposed, front the tone and tenor of his re- ply, that he was advocating, not the resolutions he had propounded to the House, but the proposition of Mr. Grant, which suggested the imposition of an ad valorem duty. Now he had doubts as to whether an ad valorem duty was advisable ; it was not, however, necessary to enter on them at present : it was sufficient to remark, that the Chancellor of the Ex- chequer seemed to dilate upon his plan, as if it simply was a proposal for an ad valorem duty. But such it was not, for it possessed all the disad- vantages of the ad valuer'm duty, with many others which were peculiar to itself. Again, he had to observe that Mr. Goulburn had altogether passed over the difficulties suggested by Mr. Huskisson, as certain to at - tendthe collection of the revenue. Ile hail contented himself with simply saying, " It may appear difficult to you, Gentlemen of the House of Com- mons, but I ant assured, by practical men, that there are really none." But he knew there were practical men in Mincing Lane, as well as in the Customs, and these were decidedly of opinion that the plan was imprac- ticable. Besides, he was by no means convinced that there had not been a little message to the Chancellor of the Exchequer from time practical men at the Customs, stating that the plan was in its details impracticable. He wished to ask the right honourable gentleman how he could possibly make out that the seller derived equal advantage by disposing of his sugar at 54g. and at 47s. To him the calculation was incomprehensible ; and he believed, if the scheme could be carried into effect, that it would make all sugars of the same price in the market, and that Government would be made the possessor of all the sugars imported. This was his deliberate opinion ; he thought the plan was unintelligible, and that it was imprac- ticable. If, however, the Chaocellor of trio Exchequer possessed an ar- gument to show his scheme was practicable, lie certainly ought to bring it forward for the benefit of those who were not so enlightened upon the subject. But even admitting that the plan was practicable, where was the benefit, and'in what is it superior—or rather, is it not in all respects inferior to the proposition of the honourable member for Inverness ? Mr. Thomson reminded the House, that when, at the commencement of this session, he moved for a committee upon taxation, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in an anxious voice and frightenedlone, deprecated all meddling with the sources of the revenue. You mist not touch sugar, said he ; you must not touch rum; you must not touch any of the great articles of our commerce; as by your interference you will throw the whole commercial relations of the country into a state of utter confusion. But what did the right honourable gentle-man do himself ? Had not his whole course for the session been one scene of injurious meddling with the sources of our revenue ? He concluded by saying he would support the amendment, and sat down amidst cheers.

Mr. COURTENAY defended the Chancellor of the Exchequer's plan. Mr. BRIGHT and Mr. Timm condemned it.

Mr. HEitaiEs thought it calculated to furnish to the West India interest the roar of which it stood in need.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer had been unfairly accused of vacilla- tion discreditable to Government, and injurious to the genera: interests of the trade. Whatever change he had made in his original plan was adopted upon conviction, and he preferred rather to do right and acknowledge a mistake, than to persevere in an error for thesake of a ruinous consistency. The charge of vacillation certainly did not come with the best grace from the member for Liverpool, whose changes of opinion and conduct regard- ing the silk-trade were violent and memorable.

Mr. BARING could not vote either for the original motion or for the amendment. The first was impracti,za.ble, and the last put in hazard a larger amount of revenue than the country could afford at this moment to lose.

Sir ROBERT PEEL, after descanting on the remission of taxes which Government had granted in the course of the present ses- sion, and the consequent delicacy which ought to be observed in tampering with the remaining sources of revenue, observed, that He had certainly been surprised at the charge of vacillation brought against the Chancellor of the Exchequer by the member for Liverpool, who must be aware of the difficulty of making arrangements of this kind, and of the impossibility of consulting beforehand the parties concerned in the trade. He was thus shut out from the advice of practical men, lest injury should he done by premature disclosure ; but if, after having digested and stated his plan, he found reason to change it, because, if carried into execution, it would work gross injustice to any particular party, he was bound to change or to modify it, and not to persist in a plan to which reasonable exceptions could be taken. At all events, it was rather singular that such a charge should come from such a quarter. Notwithstanding that his right honourable friend had himself been long in habits of official life, and filled most important situations in the service of the state, and especially situations which made him well acquainted with the bearing of the present question, yet, within the short space of a week, he had changed his views : it therefore could be no matter of sur- prise that the Chancellor of the Exchequer should find some difficulty in settling a question of so much difficulty. He trusted the House would manifest its sense of what was due to public credit, and what the com- mercial interests of the country demanded, by voting against the amend- ment.

Mr. C. GRANT supported his own resolution. The House divided. For the original resolution, 182; for Mr. Grant's amendment, 144.

Mr. BROUGHAM professed that he could not comprehend the manner in which this measure of finance was to operate in respect of sugar, though one hunched and eighty-two members of that House appeared to be so clear in the perception of it. He pre- sumed not to rival that perspicacity, which he could only regard with distant admiration, with extraordinary and hopeless envy. (Loud cheers.) Mr-Husxissox repeated his objections to the Chancellor of the Exchequer's plan.

He was determined, when these resolutions were brought up again, to make the proposition which he had already made ; and he was suite convinced that if a bill were brought in, such opposition would be given to it as would prevent it from being carried for one or two months.

ML BARING said the best thing that Ministers could do was, either to abandon the measure altogether, or to reduce the duty indifferently on East and West India sugar 5s. per cwt. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could not agree to such an equalization of the duties, or to endanger a revenue of 1 ,2 00,000 /. As to the threat held out by Mr. Huskisson, of impeding the measure, he knew very well, from the experience of the present session, how difficult it was to carry a measure through that House ; but he trusted the House would do justice to itself, and not allow any measure to be retarded unnecessarily. The Committee, after some further conversation, divided. For the resolution, 161 ; against it, 144.

2. COURT OF CHANCERY. The debate on the Chancery Bill was resumed on Thursday. Mr. JOHN WILLIAMS spoke at great length in support of the bill.

Mr. ROBERT GRANT spoke at still greater length against it.

Mr. M. A. TAYLOR said, that he had for twenty years stood alone in his attempts to reform the Court of Chancery ; and, in his opinion, the bill would not have the effect of redressing any one of the grievances justly complained of. Mr. D. W. HARVEY would maintain, against any opposition, that the appointment of new Judges could be of no avail so long as the system remained in its present state. It had been said that the lawyers of the Court of Chancery were op- posed to the change. It was no matter of surprise that they were, for it certainly could not fail, with all its faults, to diminish their profits. It had been said, that with this improvement, at the end of the term there would not be a single cause untried. That would be a case of which legal history supplied no precedent. But why would it be ? The causes would not be decided—no more decided than a question was deoided in that House when it was sent before a Committee. The causes were sent to the Master, and there they remained in that living tomb, awaiting no resurrection. They were buried in the ten mausoleums in Chancery Buildings. One learned gentleman said that the causes would be de- cided so rapidly, that there would be no occasion for a fifth Judge ; but if that honourable member took a chariot at Whitechapel Church to come to the Parliament House, and was seven hours in performing the journey, it would be of no consequence to him where he was stopped, whether it were Aldgate, or St. Paul's Churchyard, or in Fleet Street. If he were seven hours coming, he would feel it like a great evil. This was like a Chancery-suit—you got in by a subprena, and you got out by a judgment ; and many a day elapsed before the close of the journey. The

plan now to give relief was by partial acceleration. There were three distinct stages in a Chancery suit,—the first was from its birth till it came into Court ; then from the Court there was its itinerancy to the Master's office ; there was then its vagrancy there, its being set down for further

directions to be spoken to—a motion to be heard concerning it—a re- hearing, and at the end of eight or ten years it reached its final stage— the judgment. It did not seem to him to form any part of the bill to save timein those different stages which was a saving of expense. There was a plan,,, and he approved of it, to abolish the four Clerks in the Ex- chequer, but why not abolish the Masters in Chancery ? Sir ROBERT PEEL said, that he was sorry to interpose between the long array of legal combatants who had addressed the House; but there were, he thought, some considerations, not legal, which might with propriety be addressed to them by a layman.

The question for the House to decide was, not whether the Bill would prevent delay, but whether it would permit a preliminary obstacle to be interposed to prevent the consideration even of a measure which had been sent down from the other House of Parliament, and the object of which was to diminish the expense and shorten the proceedings in a suit in Chancery. He considered that the discussion at present was, whether or not they would proceed, and take into consideration, according to the ordinary forms, a Bill to improve the Court of Chancery? All the mea- sures, however, for the improvement of that court were met—by what? By a demand for further inquiry. He thought that at present a practical measure was called for ; and when it was produced, it was found that in- quirywas wanted. What was the arrear of business ? He would take the First Seal after Easter during the last four years, and see what was the total number of causes standing on the paper ready for hearing, but which could not be heard. In 1827, on the First Seal before Easter, including all causes set down, the arrear was 742; in 1828 it was 588; in 1829 it was 853; and in 1830 it was 655. The parties were anxious to have a hearing—they were ready—but, on an average, there were 600 remaining unheard, from the impossibility of hearing them. That the time was come when some re- medy ought to be applied, could not, he thought, be doubted, though there might be some difference of opinion as to the remedy to be applied. It was the duty of the House to provide against further delay. What was the state of the business at present? The number of causes of all descrip- tions entered on the Vice-Chancellor's paper, in January and Febru- ary 1829, was 265. The average of the time before these causes could he heard was one year and a quarter, although they were all ready for hearing. It would be fifteen months before a proper opportunity arrived for hearing any of these causes after it had been set down. Were those facts not sufficient to call for a remedy ? That was a question which he thought satisfactorily answered. The next question was, is the remedy proposed the fitting one ? The object of the measure was to ap- point an additional Judge. He wished to meet the objections to this proposition with candour. It was said that in 1828 he had opposed a similar motion. He had not done so. There had been no such proposi- tion. He had moved the previous question on a motion, but that was not for the appointment of an additional Judge. But even if he were not clear of all such objections, he claimed for himself the liberty of deciding all questions by the circumstances under which they were brought before the House for discussion ; and he contended that it was not proper to bind down members to the words of their former speeches. He begged, therefore, to decide the question of this additional Judge without any re- ference to his own previous votes, or the previous speeches of other members. He doubted the policy or the expediency of trusting to the continuance of the good health of the Judge, or the unceasable ex- ertion of his faculties in the constant discharge of the arduous duties of his office. He doubted much whether it was politic or prudent, either in official or in legal situations, to keep those who held them fourteen or fif- teen hours employed in the mere drudgery of their department. He confessed it appeared to him that such a course was calculated to dis- -qualify them for the performance of some of the more important and higher duties of their station ; an opinion in which he was confirmed by Mr. Burke, who, in a letter to a member of the French Convention, de- clared that thejudgraent of those who were so laboriously employed must be deficient in that wisdom and forethought which should distinguish such a situation. It had been objected, also, that the number of appeals which must be made to the decisions of inferior Judges was an argument against the appointment of another Judge; but he believed that the be- nefit derived from such appeals, when under proper restrictions, counter- balanced, in a great degree, any evils which might arise from their num- ber. Another objection to this measure was, that the additional Judge would make the Lord Chancellor a mere Jack Rugby. (Laughter.) He confessed he did not well know what the allusion of thehonourable and learned member for Plympton aimed at, by this Jack Rugby ; but he thought he could find enough in the speech of Mr. Wetherell, in 1813, to neutralize the objections of Sir Charles Wetherell in 1830. The honour- able and learned member, on the debate on the appointment of the Vice- Chancellor in 1813, had spoken a speech in favour of the appointment of a new Judge so good, that he (Sir R. Peel) wished he had as good a one on his side now.

Mr. Peel concluded by moving as an amendment on the amend- ment of Sir C. Wetherell, " That the Bill be now read a second time."

Mr. BROUGHAM said, that when the Lord Chancellor had re- deemed his pledge of proposing an efficient measure for reforming the evils of the Court of Chancery, then, and then only, he would consent to grant him new assistance, if new assistance were necessary. In the year 1827, the Lord Chancellor obtained his confidence by a pledge, of which he now retained the most vivid recollection. Give me, said that learned lord, immediately after he was called on to fill the place of his eminently learned and venerable predecessor—give me, said he, in these remarkable and emphatic words—give me but a little time—spare me but this one season, and in the face of Parliament, and of the coun- try, and of the suitors, and of the profession, I promise to mature and bring to perfection a measure which shall secure the despatch of all busi- ness in the Court of Chancery regularly, faithfully, and accurately. These were the words which Mr.Brougham had treasured up from that time. Not one year, but three years had now elapsed, and all that was proposed by that learned person was the appointment of a new journeyman judge. In the bill before them, he found no evidence of the application of those beau- tiful talents for which the member for Durham (Mr. M. Taylor) had so highly eulogized him. (Laughter.) Nothing was to be found of the ardour of the young Judge, young in years and in office, and who might at least have felt the ambition to distinguish himself. He gave the noble and learned lord credit, on his appointment, for a desire to attempt some. thing. He knew his extent of experience, his sagacity, and his learning. He thought he might trust his industry and sense of duty. At all events, he thought he could trust his ambition for an active and zealous dis- charge of the functions of that office—the highest in professional desire —the highest, as it ought to be, in professional emolument ; and that he would not slumber in that post which had been so efficiently filled by his illustrious and venerable predecessor. Mr. Brougham thought all this. He expected it. He believed the pledge the noble and learned lord had given. But it would be his fault, if he was betrayed into further con- fidence; or if he could, after such experience of the learned lord's pro- 'fessions, be brought to lend himself to the act of, adding to the public burdens, by enabling the learned lord to lead a life of indolence, and of the enjoyment of all the pleasures of power and patronage, and paying for his use another deputy. (Hear, hear !) Mr. Brougham then proceeded to show that the bdsiness of the Court had not increased.

It might as well be said there were arrears in that Court, the very name of which at so late an hour of the night created a yawn, in that blessed place of slumber, the Judges of which had no duties to perform except that of receiving their salary—whose drowsy meditations were never broken in upon by speech of counsel, whom it was as difficult to catch sitting as it was to catch partridges sitting in November—who were no sooner on their bench than they were off it again—whose vacation months differed only in name from the other months of the year—whose only change was from a scarlet cloak to a purple one ; it might as well be said that there was a pressure in that same Court of Exchequer which called for relief; it might as well be said, that because fifteen revenue causes had been entered in that Court during the last fortnight, and only ten had been tried, the arrears of that Court could not be kept down. Yet the Attorney-General and the Solicitor-General well knew that in that blessed abode of sloth the business of the revenue was going down in a descend- ing series until it would reach Zero, or even that negative quantity which was less than nothing. He next directed his sarcasm against a vulnerable position of the new member for Winchilsea, Mr. Williams.

His honourable and learned friend (Mr. Williams), tired of detailing the delays of the Court of Chancery, as he had done in that admirable speech of his in 1824, for which he (Mr. Brougham) felt thegreatest obli- gation to him, and not less so for the triumphant answer which it afforded to his speech of that night—his honourable and learned friend, who had changed about from attackin,g useless offices to become their patron—his honourable and learned friend, with great force and dexterity—for who could know so well the strength and weakness of an argument as he who had tried all sides of it ?—his honourable and learned friend had said, and the sentiment had been echoed by the right honourable gentleman oppo- site, that they ought not to tax public servants beyond their powers; and had spoken of the temporary but extraordinary exertions of two of the excellent Judges of the Courts of Equity, especially of the Master of the Rolls. Now what had been the extraordinary exertions of the Master of the Rolls? That he had sat in his Court after breakfast, instead of sitting in it after dinner ; that he had sat for six hours in a day instead of four ; and that he had devoted two or three Saints' days and other holydays to hearing business. Now Mr. Brougham was not of those who were for having any of the Judges worked out, and made to die of hard labour. He cordially united with the right honourable gentleman, that it was im- portant that judicial offices should be filled by men of enlarged minds ; and that men of enlarged minds should not be treated like galley slaves. In all that he heartily concurred; and he deprecated, as much as the right honourable gentleman, the making it incumbent on any of the Judges, or the noble and learned person who held the Great Seal, or on any of his deputies, to let himself be drawn away too much by business from neces- sary relaxation, or from liberal studies. But he could not see the applica- tion of this to the existing fact. 'With respect to the Vice-Chancellor, any person having less the resemblance of a man that was overworked or deprived of necessary relaxation, he never saw ; and he was sure that honourable and learned individual would laugh to scorn any one who as- serted that he was in such a condition, or that he had made any exertions in the present year which he was not ready to repeat next year, and again, and again, if required. And as to the Master of the Rolls, was he a slave ? In no other way, undoubtedly, than as they had been told was the case with some of the negro slaves, who worked hard all day, in order that they might amuse themselves at night. And as for the Lord Chan- cellor, Mr. Brougham knew the arch and good-humoured laugh that would mantle in his face if he heard himself termed an object of compas- sion, an unfortunate being, who was never seen except surrounded by musty Bills of Chancery, or plunged in the recesses of his law library. Thesethree learned persons, the House might depend upon it, indulged

in all the innocent gayeties of society ; and were by no means subjected to that perennial toil which the right honourable gentleman opposite seemed to have taken it on trust formed the character of their lives and conver- sation. (Laughter.) It was said there was a temporary arrear, and therefore that there ought to be an additional and permanent Judge. If there were a hill, an ascent of a quarter of a mile, up which it was thought that three horses could not draw a carriage, what would be thought of the owner of the carriage, who, instead of hiring an additional horse to assist in the ascent of that hill, were to buy one and keep him all the days of his life, merely for the service of a quarter of a mile ? Could any thing be more absurd than that for that slight effort an animal should be purchased, to be im- mediately afterwards, perhaps, shot, lest he should eat his ears off? Yes, there was one thing more absurd. The carriage had got up the hill before the additional horse was thought of I The arrears were all gone I Those two strong and excellent horses, the Vice-Chancellor and the Master of the Rolls, had drawn the carriage to the summit, and were neighing with delight ; and now it was proposed to put another horse into the team to trot down with them on the other side ! (Laughter.) It was of the utmost importance to the profession of the law, that the highest station in that Court should be filled by a Judge fully competent to discharge the duties of his office. The jurisdiction of the Lord Chan- cellor was superior to all ordinary jurisdiction ; he had to dispense the highest and most delicate patronage of the Crown ; he had to preside in the House of Lords; he had other official duties of the gravest characters. With what feeling, then, but jealousy and repugnance could he regard a measure, the natural and inevitable tendency of which was to convert the office of the Lord High Chancellor of England into a judicial sine- cure ? If the Lord Chancellor's duties were confined to sitting in the House of Lords, he would soon become a mere Judge of Appeal—he would soon cease to be what the Constitution prescribed he ought to be— the first lawyer in the country—filling the first situation in that Court of which he ought to be the ornament. Even as a Judge of Appeal, they might set him up, and plant him on the woolsack ; they might give him power; but would he have any authority ? Would he satisfy the Courts below ? Would-he satisfy the suitors ? Would he satisfy the profession? See the course which would then be taken in the appointment of a Lord Chancellor. He would be chosen because he was a cunning intriguer behind the curtain; because he was a skilful debater in the House of Lords. Would such a man be qualified to decide appeals from the Vice- Chancellor—from the Master of the Rolls—or from any other Judge whatever ? Would he be qualified to grapple with the difficulties of a complicated case ? Would he have any confidence in himself? Certainly not; because he would well know that the profession had no confidence in him. Such a Lord Chancellor, Mr. Brougham would engage to say, would confirm at least nineteen out of twenty appeals that came before him.

He had a great respect for the present Lord Chancellor. In some re- spects that noble andlearded lord has disappointed him, but not in others. He was unwilling to speak of him with harshness. He should be unwil- ling to do so, were it only for the personal esteem which he entertained towards him. But this he would say—that flattery never was carried fur- ther than it would be by those, who, knowing the difference between him and his predecessor, should still declare that the prediction of Sir Samuel Romilly, that the appointment of a Vice-Chancellor would facili- tate the placing of the Great Seal in the hands of a man, in whose hands, but for that appointment, it would not have been placed, had not been accomplished. Somebody had asked if appeals had increased ? Had they not? What did the present Lord Chancellor do but hear appeals ? On that fact he rested the claim of Sir Samuel Romilly to a wise foresight. Had any Lord Chancellor ever heard so few causes ? Had any Lord Chancellor ever done so little equity business, or confined himself so closely to appeals, as the present? Even Lord Eldon, after the year 1813, when he received the assistance of the Vice-Chancellor, heard only a fourth of the number of causes, but he had heard eight or ten times the number of appeals. It was true that he had heard all the bankruptpetitions. But then it must be recollected that to the hearing of those petitions large fees were attached. It somehow or other happened, that whatever arrears there might be in other business, there was never any arrear in the disposal of bankrupt petitions. He did not wish to sneak harshly of Lord Eldon. Sensible as he was of his defects when in office, he was also sensible of his many and exalted accomplishments ; he was sensible of his profound legal knowledge. But he must nevertheless say, that the manner in which Lord Eldon used to dispose of the bankrupt petitions formed a striking contrast to the manner in which he disposed of the other business that came before him. Let t■Ie proposed measure be adopted, and the Court of Chancery would soon become little more than a Court of Appeal.

The measures proposed appeared to him to be of very doubtful improve- ment. The one referred to the paying the Registrar in a different man- ner; the other proposed the paying of the Mas:er by salary, instead of fees. Now, fees were liable to great objection, when they were in the remotest degree dependent upon the prolixity of a cause ; for they being an some sort a premium upon delay, and a bribe to encourage expensive- ness and vexatious impediments, they might well be considered an abomi- nation. This was consequently the worst way to pay a Judge, or any offi- cial person, as it opened the door to an infinite number of abuses ; but if, on the contrary, fees did not depend upon the prolixity of a cause—if, once for all, one fee was paid upon each case, it became a very different matter. Now, observe the distinction between the Judge and the Master in Chancery. The Judge sat before all mankind, in the face of day—and for shame sake, he could not dare to receive the emoluments of his office unless he discharged its duties. But the Master sat in a corner, without any crowd to watch him—without any newspaper to report him ; and if, then, he were to receive a salary, in lieu of the fees now given, the pro-

blem he would naturally get himself to solve, would be—not how the bu- siness of the Court might be best expedited to the convenience and ad- vantage of the suitors—but how he might continue to receive his salary at the least possible expense of labour—how he might discover the mini- mum of labour necessary to retain his place—how he might, in fact, con- vert it into a sinecure—a problem uniformly solved most effectually bythe many holding official situations, and solved after a manner which would

do honour to a Senior Wrangler. (Loudcheers and laughter.) The Mas- ter's Office was complained of ; it was defective. His remedy was this— Let in the light ; open the doors ; let them sit in the face of the people as the Judges did. (Loud cheers.) Let them sit under the consciousness that they were exposed to the public eye and the public scrutiny as the Judges did. (Cheers.) They might then pay them as they pleased—by fees or salary—there would be no objection, and there could be no injury. In conclusion, Mr. Brougham said it would have been far more pleasing to him to have pursued a different course, especially when the Government were minded to reform the law.

Feeling, however, was not a safe guide. If he were then to judge by his own feeling, he would say it was the middle of winter, though it was really Midsummer-day. If he were to be guided, too, by his own feeling, he would say that the right honourable Secretary opposite was sincere in his desire to promote legal reform. And why would he say so ? because the right honourable gentleman had given proofs of his disposition —because he had been a powerful ally—because he had put down the clamour which was raised against the reformers in that House—had re- moved impediments from their way, and been to them a rampart and a

tower of strength. (Cheers.) Accidental circumstances had placed the right honourable gentleman in a situation in which, in the prosecution of his own personal views, he might have turned all his energies and powers to put down the cause of reform ; but he had magnanimously, and dis- interestedly, and wisely for his own fame, preferred making himself the patron to appearing as the opponent. But as to the Solicitor-General and the Lord Chancellor, how was he to judge of them, except by their acts —or in other words, except by their two Bills ? (Cheers.) By these two Bills, which the Lord Chancellor sent down to them—one of which was of very doubtful improvement, and the other no improvement at all. He told them, that if they wished to act in accordance with the dignity of that House—if they wished to act fairly towards themselves, their con- stituents (whom they must soon meet), and the country in general, the only honest answer they could give to my Lord Chancellor was—Redeem your pledge : let us see the fact ; then we will judge of your demand, and how, and when ; and as new help may appear to be necessary to you, in such sort shall you have it, and not otherwise. (Loud and continued cheering.) The ATTORNEY-GENERA.L defended the Bill.

If at any time his honourable and learned friend should happen to be raised to that situation to which his talents so well entitled him, he would find that there were so many vested interests engaged—so many prejudices to overcome—that the reform of the Court was not the work of a day or of a year. How, then, could Lord Chancellor Lyndhurst be blamed for not perfecting the system within a period of three years, especially when it was well known that every plan of improvement was opposed in the Court and out of the Court, and in that House, and without its walls ? But those, it seemed, who wished for reform would only accept of it upon their own scale. They would have nothing except a plan of reform which was mature and perfect—never considering that, from the very nature of the Court, all amelioration must be gradual.

Mr. HUSKISSON did not think that any case had been made out in favour of this new appointment.

About fifteen years back, great complaints were made respecting the imperfect communication between this country and Ireland. The Holy- head mails, for various reasons, did not travel with sufficient speed— there were tolls, and various impediments named amongst the causes. They did not, boy/ever, without making any other alteration, place an additional coach upon the road by way of remedying the evil. *Yet this was pretty much the course recommended upon the present occasion.

The House divided. For.Sir Charles Wetherell's amendment, 96 • against it, 133: fipon a motion by Mr. BROUGHAM, Sir ROBERT PEEL con- sented to the postponement of the second reading till Monday.

3. SALE OF BEER BILL. Sir E. KNA.TCHBULL proposed two new clauses, by way of amendment. The first clause, which would, he trusted, in some degree, operate to- wards the protection of the publicans, was, to prohibit the drinking of beer on the premises upon which it was sold. This clause would not pre- vent any persons who wished to do so from purchasing beer and taking it home to their families. The next clause was to limit the operation of the act to three years. That would give an opportunity of ascertaining the working of the measure, and V bringing it again, if necessary, under the consideration of the House.

For the amendment, 108; against it, 138.

4. FORGERY. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE moved the second reading of the Forgery Bill. His Lordship contended, with great earnestness, that the punishment of death, which our law pre- scribed for forgery, had the effect of scaring prosecutors—not of lessening crime. On that ground he advocated the abolition of the punishment, and not from a feeling which actuated many respect- able persons, that it ought not to be in the power of any Le- gislature to annex the punishment of death to any crime but murder.

The Earl of WINCHILSE A. and the Duke of RICHMOND gave the bill their support. The LORD CHANCELLOR should not oppose the second reading of the bill, but in the Committee he should object to several clauses.

5. STATE OF IRELAND. Mr. THANT presented a petition from Sir Harcourt Lees, complaining of the agitation still kept up in Ireland. Mr. Trant called upon Mr. O'Connell to abstain from his attempts to keep alive the animosities of that country. Mr. O'CONNELL denied that he had ever exerted his influence to injure the tranquillity of Ireland. But Parliament cared nothing; for the miseries of Ireland ; and he felt bound to use all constitu- tional means to procure for her redress. He disclaimed, at the same time, the power of the House to take cognizance of his con- duct elsewhere. - Mr. DOHERTY thought it would be infind'ely beneath the dignity of the House to interfere with the right of the Member for Clare to conduct himself as he thought worthy of his character else- where. But he did complain that the honourable and learned member, after he had obtained the high honour of a seat in that House, instead of declaring his opinions there, and calling upon the House to adopt them, should make his appeals to the passions of the ignorant peasantry of his gountry, and incite them by such doctrines as " War to the knife." (Low] cheering.) He would tell him that his object in adopting such a course was not to obtain an investigation of the question of the currency, or of any other question. No ; he was prompted to it by the absurd, and weak, and mi- serable notion that he could drive the Government to his purposes by his cry of " War to the knife." (Vehement cheering.) What was more easy than, by adopting such discreditable means, to keep up or increase a vulgar notoriety ? Nothing could be more easy than for any man to excite the alarms of the poorer classes in Ireland, by writing a letter and telling them that the Banks were all going to stop. He remembered having heard of a poor madman who had received a supposed injury from the manager of a country theatre, and took this mode of revenging himself : on the night of the manager's benefit, having disposed himself in some part of the the- atre, where he himself was safe, he set up a cry of " Fire ! ' and the whole assembly were immediately dispersed in great alarm, and many of them killettorgreatly injured. Now it was just as easy for the honourable member to create a panic by the course he had chosen ; and he fearad that he would be almost as successful as his rival agitator had been. (Cheers and laughter.) He called upon him to reflect upon the consequences of what he had done. It was a fact that the miserable people to whom his advice was addressed went into the Waterford market on Saturday last, and, in consequence of the panic produced by his letter, they obtained in many cases as much as thirty per cent. lower for their articles than they had obtained before. (Loud expressions of disapprobation.) He appealed to him in the name of those poor people and of his country, and called upon him to desist from a course which must plunge them in misery and ruin. If he entertained objections to the Banking System of Ireland, in the name of God let him— let every man meet the Minister face to face where he had the opportunity, in that House-,–and by argument endeavour to show that his objections were wdl grounded. But let no man carry such a question before the poor people of Ireland as the judges who were to decide its merits, and then talk of conscientious motives, or intentions, for which he claimed respect. ( Con- tinued cheering.) But, most of all, let no individual, arrogating to himself the right of deciding upon questions of great importance, proceed to call upon thepeople of Irefand to act upon that decision in appeals like th is—" War to the knife." (Loud cheering.) He would again admit that he had no right to reproach the honourable and learned gentleman, or to call him to Recount for his conduct out of the house; but when the honourable and learned gentleman appealed to what lie had doae in it, he would tell him that he had done just nothing. (Shouts of laughter and cheering from every part of the House.) And when the honourable and learned member as- serted that that House refused a patient, a diligent, and an untirhig at- tention to subjects connected with the interests of Ireland, he appealed to the experience of the last twenty years, and rejected that statement as utterly groundless. (Hear, hear !) It was one thing to refuse attention to Irish subjects, and another not to attend to the recommendations of the honourable and learned gentleman. (Cheers and laughter.) He begged pardon of the House for having detained them so long upon a matter which was, after all, hut very unworthy to occupy their time or attention. (Loud cheers from all parts of the House.) General GROSVENOR was of opinion, after the statements which had been made, that it was high time that the honourable and learned and Catholic member should be observed. (Cries of " Order !" "Hear, hear ! " and loud cheers.) MT. SPRING RICE rose to speak to order. Mr. O'Connell at- tempted to rise, but was kept down by Mr. Hume ; and consider- able confusion existed for a few moments—some members cheer- invand some voeiferating " Order!" Mr. S. RICE was at length suffered to say, that there was one word used by the gallant officer, which the House was bound, he thought, to find fault with, as quite unparliamentary. The honourable and gallant General had no right, since the law recog- nized no distinction, to call any member a Protestant member or a Catholic member. This was the first time, he believed, that any such allusions had been made. If they were not checked in time, they would lead to serious inconvenience, and in time to great confusion.

The SPEAKER said, the honourable and gallant officer must feel the impropriety of making any distinction among the members of that House, since the law had once settled that there are to be no distinctions.

General GROSVENOR acknowledged his error. There were really so many honourable and learned members in the House, that he was quite at a loss to distinguish them, by the ordinary method, one from another. (Laughter.) Mr. O'CONNELL disclaimed any submission to the House for what he had thought it his duty to do out of it. Still more would he disclaim the authority of any member to catechize him as to the conduct which he thought it his duty to adopt. But above all, he disclaimed the support of the honourable member for Kilkenny.

He had been taunted with writing letters to the people of Ireland ; but at the moment he was so taunted, was he not also reminded of the exist- ence of that most unconstitutional law, made by the power of a Lord Lieutenant's proclamation, which rendered it impossible for any man publicly to address his fellow citizens, unless through the medium of a letter ? He had taken that course. He did it at his peril, and he knew the consequences. He was unable to deliver his sentiments in any other manner. But he had never used the expression of "War to the knife," which had been alluded to in his letter on the subject of gold coinage, although the member for Kilkenny, in his mental confusion, had seemed to suppose that it was contained in that document. It did not surprise him that those who made attacks on him were cheered, and that his defence was received in silence. He knew he was no favourite with any party. He had never supported any. He had not supported the oligarchy of that House ; and both sides, of course, united to applaud those who opposed him. There were men, not like the member for Kilkenny, but men totally destitute of learning or of a knowledge of law, who had risen to the highest eminence—who, if they had not quite reached the ermine, had yet attained the highest subordinate station, by no other merit than the unceasing application of abuse to him. He would have attacks still from such men—to be sure he would. In spite of them and all such at- tacks, he was determined, however, to follow that course which his judg- ment pointed out to him to be right. Lord Howicia characterized the course recommended by Mr. O'Connell, as the most mischievous that could be devised for Ireland and its people.

6. GALWAY FRANCHISE. In a Committee of the House of Lords, on the Galway Franchise Bill, the Duke of WELLINGTON' stated, that as the object of the bill was to repeal, in a great mea- sure, the 4th of George I., he should move as an amendment the total repeal of that act.

Earl GREY opposed the amendment.

The object of the present Bill was to make the Roman Catholics of Galway capable of enjoying their civil rights ; and after what had passed last sessions he certainly had not conceived the possibility of the noble Duke offering any objection to it : indeed, the great principle in favour of the Catholics having become the law of the land, he had held it to be equally impossible that any member of that House .would attempt to withstand a measure which only went to remove from the inhabitants of a remote borough in the West of Ireland those disabilities which had been already generally removed from their fellows. If the amendment of the noble Duke were to be carried into effect, it would be neither more nor less than a partial disqualification and exclusion, while the general principle, as regarded the rest of the country, had been ceded.

Lord GODERICH and Lord WINCHILSEA supported Earl Grey's views.

The LORD CHANCELLOR supported the amendment.

The Duke of RICHMOND described that amendment as revolu- tionary and levelling in its character.

The House divided. For the amendment, 62; against it, 47.