3 MAY 1845, Page 2

Dtbatts an iproctebings in Varliament.

MAYNOOTH COLLEGE.

In the House of Commons, on Monday, it was moved that the report 'of the Committee on the Maynooth grant be received; on which Mr. SHARI- ILAN CRAWFORD postponed an amendment of which he had given notice, (resembling Mr. Ward's,) till the Committee on the bill. A number of petitions against the grant were presented; and also some ii, its favour— from the merchants, bankers, and traders of Liverpool, the Corporation of Manchester, and other places. Mr. Lew moved as an amendment, that the report be received that day six months; arguing against, not the increase, but the permanency of the grant. The arguments in the debate which ensued, whether for the amendment or the grant, possessed scarcely a spark of novelty: but on the contrary, retraced with less distinctness and interest the ground so thoroughly beaten in the long and repeated debates of the two previous weeks. [We give the names below; and by turning back to the two last numbers of the Spectator, the reader will see sufficient summary of the chief arguments now used, but better expressed while they were fresher.] Among the newer incidents, however, was the appearance of • Mr. Moaoew Jomi. O'CONNELL with a very c,ordial approval of the memo re,which he hailed as the commencement of a better policy towards Ireland: in spite of the smallness of the sum, the measure is valuable to the Irish because it is the first of a series. He took occasion to say that the report of the Tenure of Land Commission went beyond his expectation ; and he hoped that Government would soon bring forward some practical conclusion founded on it. However, he declared that all measures for the pacification of Ireland would prove fruitless until the Church should be put on a fair footing; and if the extraordinary opposition to the grant—the strange coalition in England between the highest Churchmen and the lowest Voluntaries—were continued, he should tremble not only for the. Legis- lative Union, but even for the connexion between England and Ireland.

The chief interest of the debate lay in certain episodes. Mr. FOX Mentz contended that the opposition to the grant differed from the " No-. Popery " cry raised in 1829, which Sir Robert Peel virtually encouraged when in Opposition. On that part of the question, he related, on the au- thority of the Reverend Dr. Buchanan of Glasgow, the substance of a con- versation which passed between the Premier and a deputation, in 1838, on the subject of church-extension in Scotland: Mr. Meade read Lis

Extract from Note-book of Rev. Dr. Buchanan.

"We were much struck and deeply interested by a declaration Sir Robert Peel made while referring to the importance of bringing out the bench of Bishops. Independent of rousing the English Members and England generally to the im- portance of our individual question, he thought it was of the highest moment that the English and Scotch Establishments should unite in these days, on the common ground of the Protestant faith, in resisting the encroachments of Popery. It is impossible, I think,' he said with great earnestness of tone and manner, ' to look at the progress Popery is now making, and the efforts it is putting forth; without anxiety and alarm. The reestablishment of the order of the Jesuits is most of the countries of Europe—the movements in Prussia and Belgium—the increase of Popish chapels and seminaries in our own country—show us too clearly what we have to dm& And I am persuaded,' he continued, that we shall ere long see a straggle arise, in which again we shall have to determine the question whether Popery or Protestantism is to have the ascendancy.' " These observations, continued Mr. Maule—the accuracy of which was vouched for by Dr. Buchanan—were used by the right honourable Baronet in May 1838, in reply to a deputation on church-extension, including Dr. Buchanan, Dr. M'Leod, Dr. Simpson, and several other gentlemen, among whom was Mr. Pringle; the honourable Member for Benfrewsiure. (Loud cheers and laughter.) Now; what confidence could be entertained in—what could possibly be thought of-4 statesman who, when in opposition to another Government, thus gave encourage. ment to this cry against Popery, and now, when in office, gave means and promo- tion to the extension of that very Popery ?

Mr. PRINGLE said, that according to his recollection, though it was dill cult to speak with perfect accuracy of what occurred so many years ago, 'Dr. Buchanan's account of what passed at the interview was a very fair-re- port- He had no doubt, and he had no hesitation in saying that he believed, those were the sincere andgenuine sentiments of his right honourable friend; and he was satisfied that if his right honourable friend conceived that the measure which he had brought forward would have a tendency to shake or weaken the Protestant interests of the country, and to exalt a pare ascendancy of the Roman Catholic interests, he would not have brought it torward. For himself he feared that it would have that effect; and therefore it was that he had differed, and he did it with the greatest pain, from his right honourable friend.

Sir ROBERT PEEL did not deny the conversation, still less admit the accuracy of the account, on which he cast strong doubts— . .

"I must say, I wish that any learned gentleman or reverend divinewho left the meeting intending to make a note of what passed had given me the opportunity at the time of saying whether my recollection coincided with his or not (Loud cheers.) I should like to have had this opportunity. I thought then that the Established Churches of Scotland and England had one common cause. I thought that the cause of the Established Churches, as distinguished from the Voluntary principle, was a common one; and I have not the least doubt that I stated then what I believe now—that I expressed my devotion to the principles of the faith which I profess. I have no record of the conversation, I have no recol- lection of it; but, seeing the religious flame which was excited at the time in Holland, Belgium, and Prussia, I believe that I avowed great uneasiness at the of religious conflicts in this country. I think it probable, seeing the risiluwt:st prevailing in the Prussian States, and the great struggle for ascendancy there between the Protestant and Catholic religions, that I might have expressed my uneasiness lest we should be engaged in similar religions disputes to those which agitated Europe three hundred years since. But I said nothing to encou- rage a hostility towards the Roman Catholics. I never heard of that conversation from that hour to the present time; therefore no practical result could have fol- lowed from it: but with respect to the expression about 'Popery,' I am sure that It is very contrary to the language which I am in the habit of rising. It is very easy to have the word Popery' substituted for the Catholic religion,' and to say that there is no difference between them. I can only say, that I have no recol lection of the word having been used; and I cannot acquiesce in the correctness of the version of what took place." Incidentally he alluded to his own conduct at the time of Catholic Emancipation- " I admitto the right honourable gentleman (Mr. Fox Manic] that there may be many occasions on which it would be the duty of a public man to relinquish office rather than propose measures contrary to the principles he had theretofore pro- fessed. But I tl k the propriety of taking that Coarse would mainly depend on the effect his retirement from office would have on the success of the measure be believed neeessery for the common good. I think it was perfectly honourable and eetly just in the right honourable gentleman the late President of the Board of Dade to relinquish office. The right honourable- gentleman (Mr. Fox Mettle] thinks I ought to have pursued the same course in 1829. Sir, that is precisely the course I wished to pursue-that I intended to pursue. Till within a month of the period when I myself consented to bring forward the measure for the relief of the Roman Catholic disabilities, I did contemplate my retirement from office; not because I shrunk from the responsibility of proposing that measure—not be- cause I was afraid of the charge of inconsistency—not because I was not prepared to make the sacrifice of private friendship and political connexions—but because I honestly believed my retirement might promote the success of the measure I then thought necessary, and that it might assist my noble friend in carrying. that measure, were I to make the sacrifice of office' and give, as I intended to give it, a cordial support in a private capacity. But when did I change my opinion? I changed my opinion when it was demonstrated to me that it was neeeesery I should make these sacrifices--that I should retain office; when it was shown me, that however humble might be my abilities, yet that, in consideration of the sta- tion I held, with my retirement from office the carrying of the measure would be totally impracticable; when it was proved to use that there were objections in the highest quarters which could not be overcome unless I was prepared to make the sacrifice of what was dearer to me; when it was intimated to me that it was the intention of the highest authorities of the Church of England to offer a most de- eided opposition to the measure; when my noble friend Intimated to me that he thought if I persevered in my intention to retire, the success of the measure was out o the question. It wee then that I did noehesitate to say, I will not expose others to the obloquy and suspicion from which I myself shrink. I know all the consequences of my being the person to propose to relieve the Roman Catholics from their disabilities; but the moment I am convinced that the obstructions to the success of that measure would be infinitely increased by my retirement, then I will set the example of making these sacrifices; and, be the consequences what they may, I will propose the measure. Sir, these are the facts of the case."

On a division, Mr. Law's amendment was negatived, by 232 to 119.

Mr. TANCRED then moved another amendment, making the payment out of the Consolidated Fund temporary, until provision could be made for the same out of surplus funds in the hands of the Irish Ecclesiastical Com- missioners, or by an assessment on the lands of Ireland equivalent to the remission of' tithes made to the landlord by the Tithe Commutation Act. This amendment was at once negatived, by 128 to 52.

The report was then brought up, and affirmed.

SPEAKERS IN THE FOREGOING DEBATE. For Mr. Law's amendment, re- jetting the grant—Mr. Law, Mr. Vernon Smith, Mr. Hindley, Mr. Brotherton, Mr. Fox Manic, Mr. Thomas Duncombe. Against it, and for the grant—Lord Norreys, Lord Dalmeny, Sir Charles Douglas, Mr. Hawes, Mr. Round, Mr. Borth- wick, Mr. Morgan John O'Connell, Sir Robert Peel, Lord Worsley, Mr. John Collett.

AD2dISSION TO SCOTCH UNIVERSITIES.

- On Thursday, Mr. Iturmeserun moved for leave to introduce a bill to regulate the admission to the lay or secular chairs of the Universities in Scotland.

A similar bill had been rejected last year; but the circumstances have since changed. The law is at present regulated by two acts of the Scotch Parliament: one, passed in 1609, required all office-bearers to sign the Confession of Faith; the other, passed in 1707, also required them to take the Oath of Allegiance. In none of the Scotch Universities have those acts been uniformly enforced; and at Edinburgh they have been entirely in abeyance. The Senatus Academicus of Edinburgh are in favour of removing the restrictions; and a majority of the Professors at Glasgow, St. Andrew's, and Aberdeen. He proposed to touch none but the chairs relating to science and literature, leaving. untouched those connected with theology. He gave an urg,ent reason for now stirring in the Matter. The propriety of founding a college had been recently mooted in the Free Church; and oa one occasion, at a meeting of Free Churchmen, it was thrown out, that perhaps among their ranks twenty persons might be found rich enough to give 1,0001. each for the purpose of founding such college, which, it was said, would be better than cal 'ling upon the poorer portion of their congregations to sub- Scribe. The amount had been raised in three weeks. Now if this bill were not Passed, and this college came into operation, the result would be, that persons de- Signed for the ministry of the Free -Church would be educated there, and thus a sectarian character would be given to education in Scotland. It is a source of

evance that a large majority of his countrymen are precluded by law from the ur of becoming teachers in the Universities. Mr. Home DRUMMOND, who had disfavoured such a project twenty years ago, admitted the change of circumstances, and accepted the bill on the broad ground of a more liberal and enlightened policy. Mr. ACLAND advised that the bill should be introduced, and time given well to consider it.

Sir James GRAHAM did not oppose the motion. He was desirous that the question should be considered as purely Scotch, and as quite discon- nected with the English Universities; but not without regard to the ('lurch of Scotland: The acts -cited by Mr. Rutherfurd were confirmed

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by the Act of Security at the time of the Union; which debarred the British Parliament from taking any step with reference to the Established Church of Scotland that would have the effect of -derogating from this among other securities. At the same time he must say, that if the alteration were to be made, the present is the proper time; and what had been stated about the contemplated new college, and the probable effect it would have in giving a sectarian turn to education in Scotland, weighed strongly with him. There appears to be a concurrent desire that the test should be abo.- lished. Without, therefore, pledging himself to ulterior steps, he would consent to the introduction of the bill, on the understanding that Mr. Rutherfurd would not press the second reading until the people of Soot- land should have had full time to express an opinion on it.

Mr. Fox MAULE highly approved of the course taken by Sir James Graham, as tending to heal many of the differences which unhappily pre; vail in Scotland on the subject of the proposed measure.

Leave was given to bring in the THE FINANCIAL SCHEME.

The Customs (Import-duties) Bill was read a second time in the House of Lords ou Tuesday, without discussion; the debate to be taken on going into Committee on Friday.

The second reading of the Auction-duties Repeal Bill was also to have passed without discussion; but Lord BROUGHAM took occasion to express some objections to it,—as making a remission of duties that had not been called for; obliging the auctioneer to have his licence always in his pocket under penalty of a 101. fine paid down or a month's imprisonment; and as allowing any person of the lowest degree to distrain goods for rent tinder 201. Now, this measure is part of the relief for which the country is M pay the Income-tax; and that consideration led him to expose an act of gross negligence in the administration of the tax.— A citizen of London, living at the East-end of the town, had occasion to purchase something or other at a chandler's shop; and when he got home, he found it was wrapped up in a return—the original signed return—made the other day tinder the Property-tax Act, by a person whose nada, was appended to it stating the profits of his trade under one head, and of his profession (for he had both) under another head. The paper had been shown to him, and might have been seen by twenty other persons; and if some of these returns were selling foe waste paper, he should like to know where it was to end. It gave him great 0011., cern to find a case of negligence of so gross a description. A noble friend of his had.a conversation with a gentleman, a Member of the other House of Pare Bement,- who lived near Clapham: that gentleman, in a public conveyance, happened to say, " That is a handsome villa on the right"; when a stranger re- plied, " Yes; and it will very soon be in the market: I dare say you, may buy it cheap, if you like it." " Indeed !" said the gentleman; " what do you mean? " " Why, I happen to know," was the answer, "that the owner, though he is taupe posed to be a respectable and wealthy merchant in the City, has given in his profits under the Property-tax as amounting to nothing for the last two or three years "; and therefore he inferred that he would soon be in the Gazette and his villa for sale.

Lord STANLEY deprecated discussion at that stage of the bill. It was read a second time; the debate to be taken on going into Committee.

STATE OP THE WORKING CLASSES.

In the House of Commons, on Monday, Lord Josew RUSSELL announced the following as the resolutions which he should move on Thursday- . 1. That the present state of political tranquillity, and the recent revival of trade, afford to this House a favourable opportunity to consider of such measures as may teal permanently to improve the condition of the labouring classes. "2. That those laws which impose duties usually called protective tend to impair the efficiency of labour, to restrict the free interchange of commodities, and to impede on the people unnecessary taxation. " 3. That the present Corn-law tends to check improvements in agriculture, produces uncertainty in all farming speculations, and holds out to the owners and occupiers of land prospects of special advantage which It falls to secure.

"4. That this House will take the said laws Into consideration, with a view to such cautious and deliberate arrangements as may be most beneficial to all classes of her Majesty's subjects.

" 5. That the freedom of Industry would be promoted by a carotid revision of the law of parochial settlement which now prevails In England and Wales. "6. That a systematic plan of Colonization would partially relieve those distiicts of the country where the deficiency of employment has been most injurious to the labourers in husbandry. " 7. That the improvements made of late years in the education of the people, as well as Its more general diffusion, have been seen with satisfaction by this House. "S. That this House will be ready to give Its support to measures, founded on liberal and comprehensive principles, which may be conducive to the further extension of re- ligious and moral instruction. " 9. That a humble address be presented to her Majesty, to lay the foregoing reso- lutions before her Majesty."

On Wednesday, however, Lord John said, that as the debate on the resolutions would probably be adjourned, and as Sir Robert Peel was anxious to go into Committee on the Maynooth College Bill on Friday; he was unwilling to interfere with the order of that day; and therefore he suggested that the right honourable Baronet should give up some early day next week for the motion. After some conversation as to the disposal of business, it was arranged to take the third rdading of -the Maynooth College Bill on Friday the 19th May, and Lord John Russell's motion on the 26th.

ENCLOSURE AND DRAINAGE OF COMMON AND WASTE LANDS. •

On Thursday, the Earl of LINCOLN moved for leave to bring in a bill to facilitate the enclosure of common and waste lands in England and Wales. He explained the differences between the present measure and the one in: txoduced last year by Lord Worsley; to whose singleness of' purpose and handsome conduct is giving the matter up to Government he paid high compliments— He would not make the Tithe Commissioners also Commissioners under the present bill, seeing insuperable objections to throwing what would for the two or three first years be onerous duties on Commissioners appointed for a specific and temporary purpose. He proposed that the Secretary of State should appoint three Commissioners, one of whom should be paid. The lands with which the bill was to deal would be divided into three -classes. The first class would com- prise lands not of undefined title, but mixed commonable lands, which, under the 7th Willia:n IV., may already be enclosed by private agreement: the bill would enable the Commissioners to enclose such lands without the intervention of Par- liament; merely removing some difficulties in the operation of the previous act. With regard to freehold and copyhold lands, as greater public interests attach to lands of this description, he proposed that the Commissioners should have no power of authorizing enclosures without the intervention of Parliament. " In such a case, I should propose that the Commissioners should institute an inquiry into the circumstances of the case; that the results of the inquiry should be em- bodied in a report presented to the Secretary of State; that he should lay that re- port before Parliament, and that in conformity with the decision of the Legisla- ture upon that subject the Commissioners should act. Whatever recommendations the Commissioners might make in the course of any given year, I propose should be embodied in one annual bill, and that then the several objections to that bill could be taken by the Legislature seriatim. This would obviate, I think, all the objections to private legislation. If, for example, the Commissioners recommend any given enclosure-bill, the parties interested may procure a discussion of it by appealing to those Members who represent them in the House." The third class would comprise lands within a certiun radius of all towns above a certain population. In order to obviate any additional restrictions as to those spaces which afford health- ful recreation and exercise, the Commissioners would be authorized to require in all cases, according to a graduated scale of distances in proportion to population, (the radius being, of course, lees where the population was small,) a special re- port of the distance from the town of the proposed enclosure; and he should pro- poee a standing order requiring that enclosures of this kind should be embodied in a separate bill. He proposed to exclude village-greens from the operation of this bill, and to enable the Commissioners to make arrangements for their proper drainage and fencing. Many gentlemen whom he saw near him must be aware that village- greens, though objects of the greatest interest and importance, are converted into mere swamps, from the fact that no power is vested in anybody to make them available for the purpose for which they were originally, intended. He proposed, also, that the Commissioners should have the power of allotment as to places of recreation and exercise, according to the amount of population. He meant to adopt to a certain extent the proposal of the honourable Member for Hertford (Mr. Cowper) as to field-gardens: for he intended that allotments for a limited number should be made in those districts where enclosures took place; the Commissioners having the power to exchange lands for others nearer to the dwel- lings of the poor; the allotments to be granted at a sufficient but not an excessive rent. He could not but hope these alterations would be found improvements. He was quite sure the tendency of every one of them was in favour of the poor; and he believed, if this bill were passed, it would be found of the greatest advan- tage, not only to landowners, in enabling them to improve the soil, but to give more extended employment.

In reply to Mr. WILLIAMS, Lord Lizeccust said, that Laminas and Michael- mas lands would be comprised in the third class of lands under the bilL

, Leave having been given to bring in the bill, Lord LINCOLN introduced a subsidiary measure, to facilitate the drainage of waste and unenclosed lands—

The bill was confined to the object of enabling parties desirous of draining their own lands to carry their drams through thelands adjacent to their own, upon compensating the proprietors for the damage thereby done. The bill also would give facilities for the acquisition of plots of land necessary for the erection of steam-engines for the purposes of draining. The present bill, he was ready to admit, was limited in its objects: in the course of a session or two, he hoped to be able to introduce a more extensive scheme of legislation in this respect.

This bill also was ordered to be brought in.

THE CEREMONIAL OF THE GALLOWS.

In the House of Lords, on Monday, the Marquis of CLANRICARDE ani- madverted on the scene in Newgate chapel on Sunday. Three years ago; their Lordships had'exprested strong opinions on the disgusting scenes at Newgate; and the practice was thought to be quashed; but on Sunday there was another " theatrical movement?' Thomas Hooker was exhibited to a crowded audience, admitted. .by ticket to hear the condemned sermon; and Connor, a man committed for trial, was exposed to a similar ordeal. He moved for a copy of the regulations of the Gaol of Newgate relative to the attendance at divine worship of-persons convicted of murder or await- ing trial for that crime. Other Peers followed up the censure. Lord BROUGHAM denouuc4 the melsersation which had been committed' in tWe management of these condemned sermons at Newgate by the City autho- rities—the base traffic of pandering to the prurient taste of the more foolish and idle part of the public; and he warned the Corporation of the risk they would run if they were to neglect applying a remedy to this enormous evil. Though every publicity ought to be given to the punishment, he held that from the condemned sermon the public onght to be excluded— If this were meant for a punishment, on one class it would operate as a punish- ment; but on another class, and that was the class to which this unfortunate criminal belonged, it would operate differently—it would operate as a gratifica- tion of that morbid thirst for notoriety which appeared almost to have been a madness in the unhappy man who suffered that morning.

Lord DENMAN thought that the introduction of persons who were only under suspicion and not under sentence was calculated to produce a most frightful effect: a man might be under suspicion who was perfectly inno- cent, and the strongest impressions might be produced by the workings of his mind; all this might be consistent with perfect innocence; and yet it could not but influence the mind of judge or jury who had read of it. Lord CAMPBELL declared it a violation of law to make persons labouring under mere suspicion attend these sermons. The Duke of RICHMOND would pass an act of Parliament to check the abuse.

Lord STANLEY said, that the attention of the Government had been called to the subject three years ago; when the Home Secretary had re- ceived assurances that such scenes should not be repeated. He sug- gested, that Lord Clauricarde should postpone his motion, in order that Sir James Graham might make inquiries. The Marquis of CLawincanou willingly left the matter in the hands of Government, and withdrew his motion.

INSOLVENCY LAW. On Monday, the LORD CHANCELLOR obtained a Select Committee of Peers to investigate the operation of the Debtors and Creditors Act of last session, with especial reference to the 201. clause.

ARRESTMENT OF WAGES IN SCOTLAND. Mr. Thomas Dimecenbe had a bill to assimilate the law relating to the arrestment of workpeople's wages for debt in Scotland to that in England and Ireland, the second reading of which stood for Wednesday. On that day, however, Mr. Dor/cozens stated, that many difficulties existed; and several persons who had come no from Scotland offered to supply him with a more practicable measure, providing for the arrestment of half the wages, and facilitating the introdue' ion If a clause to prevent the track system: he therefore begged to withdraw his bill. The LORD ADVOCATE and Sir JAMES GRAHAM admitted the necessity of altering the law in Scotland, but doubted the feasibility of the plan suggested. Mr. BUNCOMBE wished that Government would take the subject into their own hands. The order for the second reading was dis- charged.

New ZEALAND. In reply to Mr. HOPE, on Thursday, Mr. CHARLES BULLER said, that his motion which stood among the Notices for Tuesday next would have been for a Committee of the whole House on the present state of the colony of New Zealand; and his intention was, on getting into that Committee, to move the greater part of the resolutions adopted by the Select Committee of last session. But he thought he might as well state, for the information of gentlemen interested in the matter, that a new arrangement with respect to the affairs of that colony being under the consideration of her Majesty's Government, he thought he should not be doing his duty to the settlers, to the Company, or to the public at large, if he were now to bring the subject into discussion in that House; and that he would therefore withdraw the notice which stood for Tuesday.