Elcbateg anti prattainin1 in padiamcnt.
1. CORPORATION REFORM.
The House of Commons on Monday resumed the consideration of the Municipal Bill in Committee. Clauses 11th, 12th, and 13th were agreed to, without any material alteration. Clause 14th provides that the Mayor shall revise the burgess-roll; but Lord JOHN ROSSELL pro- posed an amendment, that two of the three Auditors of the Public Accounts, who are to be elected under the bill, should assist the Mayor in the performance of this duty. Some discussion arose, which was terminated by a motion for adjournment ; and the consideration of the clause was postponed till the following day. Previously to the resumption of the debate on Tuesday, Sir ROBERT PEEL disclaimed all wish or intention to delay the progress of the measure ; and suggested, that it would be advisable to have morning sittings, in order to press it forward.
Lord JOHN RUSSELL gave Sir Robert Peel credit for wishing to promote the progress of the bill ; because Sir Robert, like every other Member, could not wish to have the session unusually protracted ; and if considerable way was not made in the course of the next two or three days, he should perhaps be inclined to concur in the arrange- ment recommended.
The 14th clause was again brought before the Committee; and Lord JOHN RUSSELL stated, that, for the first year, it would be advisable that the Revising Barristers under the Reform Act should revise the burgess-roll, but that afterwards the Mayor and the two Auditors should act as the Revising Committee, Mr. WYNN moved, that the Revising Barristers should continue to be the revisers of the burgess.rol.
It would be much better to have the duties of revision performed by persons not all connected with any local .par ties in the borough, as would be the assessors who were appointed by the maim* of the Council. It was extremely impor. tant, that in the performance of their duties, every appearance of partiality should be removed, and no ground left for a suspicion of it.
Several Members, including Sir ROBERT PEEL, Mr. CHARLES BELLER, Mr. ESTCOURT, and Lord SANDON, supported this amend- ment. It Was opposed by Lord JOHN RUSSELL, Mr. BLACK BERNE, Mr. JERVIS, and Mr. POULETT THOMSON; and rejected, by 86 to 53.
The clause was agreed to, as amended by Lord John Russell. Clauses 15th, ltith, 17th, and 18th, were passed without discussion.
Clause Pith %vas then proposed.
Mr. BoarliwteK moved an amendment, amidst cries of " Oh !" to the effect that the existing Members of Corporations should be made Councillors (or life.
Mr. Seam; INT explained to Mr. Borthwick, that his proposition involved not only a logical, but a inathetmitical absurdity--
At Oxford, for instance, the numbers of the Town-Council were to be 33; and how could 90, the number of the corporation, be included in :33? (Laughter.) If the honourable :Member WaS SO confident of the deserts of the gentlemen whose cause he advocated, he could have no fear of their being elected.
Mr. Ciixat.r.s But.i.ea said, that in Leicester, Liverpool, and other places, the corporations included the freemen ; so that the number of Town- Councillors in those places would be between 5000 and 6900.
Mr. Boirritwitai zeithdrcte his amendment ; and the clause was agreed to.
The 20th clause refers to the qualification of Town. Councillors. Sir RofiEler PEEL moved an amendment to it, in the shape of a proviso, to the following effect- " Pt ...aided stub members of Council who shall be elected in boroughs divided into wards shall at the time of their amnia' be seised or possessed of real or personal pro- perty of the clear Va1110 Of WOOL 01 that they shall he tated on a rental of not less than 40/. a year ; and also provided that all such members elected in towns not divided into w ads shall ai the time of their election be seised or possessed of property, real or per- sonal. of t he It It value of 5001. or be rated to ttii, relief of the pour ou a rental of not less than :20/. 0 year.
Sir Robert supported his amendment by referriug to 'numerous local acts recently passed ; from which it appeared to be a very general prac- tice, to require that persons chosen as trustees for superintending the lighting, watching, and other municipal affairs of boroughs, should pos- sess a certain property qualification. In Lord Brougham's Alunicipal Bill a property qualification was also required.
Mr. 111.ACKBURNE opposed the amendment, as contrary to the prin- ciple of the measure ' • and maintained, that the only security that would be worth having, and which could not be evaded, was in the knowledge and good sense of the electoral body. This security for the election of fit persoris wars, he was cer tairi, amply sufficient. He denied the utility of a qualification altogether— If the House required an instance of the practical inutility of any qualification on the part of the elected, could they have a better than what presented itself to them in the case of the Members for Scotland now sitting in this House? No qualification was required from them ; and yet they yielded not either in sagacity, intelligence, or in anxiety, in the performance of their public duties to any set of men either in or out of Parliament. 'the same was the case with relwet to the new jurisdictions in the Scotch burghs: DO qualification was requizol in the elected, curtailed as the people were in their privileges, because theirs was a Ili/ franchise ; they had the power to choose whom they thought best fitted to manage their affairs without any qualification whatever.
Lord SANDON supported the amendment.
Sir JOIN H011110USE opposed it— In that measure relating to parochial government, which he hail the good for- tune to introduce into Parliament several years ago, certainly a rate of qualifica- tion was fixed ; hut it was fixed against his own opinion, and against the opinion of a great number of others. 'By that bill a 40/. qualification was required for the Metropolitan parishes' and what had been the effect of it ? In two great parishes in L.- talon, the effect of the qualification had been to totally nullity the bill. The bill had not, in those parishes, been productive of any of those salu- tary consequences which it had produced in other parishes. It was his opinion that the people might be safely trusted with the election of their representatives; and nothing had been said which altered his belief, that in founding a great measure on a popular basis, - it was, better to carry out the principle to the full. Mr. GOULBURN urged as an argument for a money qualification, that it would be dangerous to trust persons who might have no property of their own with the management of charitable funds.
Mr. EWART remarked, that the members of the present Common Council of Liverpool had no property qualification, yet Lord Sandon would not say that they mismanaged the Dock estates.
Mr. F. T. BARING had ascertained what would be the effect of the amendment in Portsmouth— The town of Portsmouth—Portsmouth only, as separated from Portsea—waa divided into wards, which required in all 48 Councillors. Ile found, however, that in the principal part of the borough there were only 513 houses rated to the house-duty at above 401. a year. This showed how very blindly they were dis- cussing the question. The worst was, that in the principal part of this borough, fin. which 48 Councillors were required, only 18 could be elected if Sir Robert Peel's principle were adopted. ( Great cheering.) , Sir ROBERT PEEL quite agreed with Mr. Baring, that they were— some of them at least—discussing the question in the dark—very blindly indeed. (Great Opposition cheering.) Mr. Baring undertook to ex- plain his (Sir Robert's) clause, and left out the fact that it provided an alternative— The clause gave a double qualification ; the alternative being the possession of real or personal property to the amount of 1000/. There might be only 18 houses in one particular ward in Poi tsmouth ; but he apprehended that as the bill stood, there was no obligation to select thE Councillors from that particular ward.
Mr. BARING—" Take the whole borough."
Sir ROBERT PEEL—" Take the whole borough! Does the honour- able gentleman mean to say that there are not 48 persons in the town of Portsmouth worth 10001.? ( Cheers from the Opposition.) Mr. F. BARING.—" Certainly not." (Cheering from the other side, and loud cries of" Question! ") Mr. limn, lesitEs attempted for the second or third time in the course Of the evening, to address the Committee ; but %%as put down by criesof " Oh! " and hied cheering. Lord JOHN RUSSELL admitted, that out of the great mass of local acts, in sOnle few a property qualification was required ff.( m local offi- cers ; lee that was all that he would admit. lie would state his reasons for rjecting Sir Robert Peel's umendment- One oas, that our ancient charters aelinowledged no principle of the kind. So little was it acknowledged, that in the constitution of the City of London, there was not, be believed, at that moment, any qualification for :.ny nmnicipal officer, ; no qualification was required of the Cm Irma' ion of Land■ n, who were annually elected. lie went, then, to the original principle. Was there any general reason which could be assigned itt favour cf the propreal? On the uontralv, the general reason was in favour of the unrestricted choice of the tueg.sses. That unrestrieted choice obliged them to look to persons in Ivboiu I bey thought they could timq ju•tly confide : if they could rot confide in them, they had better not trust them with these privileges; but if they did con- de it: them, they had better not encumber them with a testriction which might in urea. eases be most inconvenient. In the next place, he came to the prac- tical ioe:arvenienee of the clause, awl he thougdt it would he almost sufficient to say On this point, that in twiny pl wes tlw qwelification would be exceedingly high, net in all extremely various. la Portsmouth, as Air. Bating had already pointed out, its effect W.oithl be to exelude a great number of persor s altogether ; and tialsiug the case of the smaller boroughs, where the proposed qualification was the possession of property to the amount Of 500/., or the occupation of a louse valued at 20/. a year, lie ktww that in small corporate towns like Chip- penharn and other places of a sirnilar &set iption, there were not more than fif- teen or twenty houses rated at •201. a 'var. Ile had already said that he thought the (FL:Mi.:mon would prove exceedingly injurious ; and he hored the Com- mittee sanction no alterations whit+ ‘vould have the effect of depriving the bill 1 ts principal recommendations. Sir Robert Peel had, no doubt, paid some athaition to the bill, but he seemed to have considered only the present state ea the cot porations. Ile bad evidently not made up his mind to change then cow.ritution completely. Ile appeared to suppose that these were secret and se If-elected bodies, to whom the entire management of the funds was to be intrusnal ; that it did not depend upon a large body of their fellow townsmen to reelect them; and above all, that they were not to make public an account of the whole of their transactions : whereas every preeaution was taken, Treasurers nod Auditors of Accounts were provided, and the fullest provision was made for the management of the accounts and property of the corporations.
Sir !toner PEEL replied, that one of his great authorities for re- quiring a property qualification was Lord John Russell himself— lie refer to an act immortalized by the noble lord's own name, and en-
titled •• An Act for the Better Begattion of the joint Parishes of St. Giles-in- the-Mehl:, and St. George Bloomsbury." The regulation de:lared by that act was, " that one India least of the persons to be elected Vestrymen of the parish
of Sr. Giles-in-the •Fiehls, and the parish of St. George Bloomsbury, in the execution of this act, shall, at the time of their election, and the time of their acting. Ire rssidr rut householders within the parish, and rated to the relief of the poor of the joint parishes of St. (dies-in-the. Fields and St. George Bloomsbury, at the annual assr.sment and qualification of"— what did the house think?— " not less than 75/. per annum." ( Great cheering from Mc Oppo‘kition.) Such was the force of distrust at that time, that no rate-payer was allowed to Vote ill:1,s he was rated at :30/. a year.
Lord Howwx was not at all surprised that Sir Robert Peel, with
that skill and dexterity which never for a moment failed him—(Loud cheers front the Opposition)—when he felt himself in a rather awkward position—( Chcerslf0711 the MinIsterialists)—had endeavoured to distract the attention of the Committee from the point in question, by getting up a laugh against Lord John Russell—
Sir Robert had been pressed, first to answer the difficulties noticed by Mr.
Baring. and next to state some general ground in favour of the establishment of some qualification for the elective body. Neither of these questions, however, did he think it safe to meddle with; and so he had entertained the House with a long story respecting the parish of St. Giks- (cheers and laughter.) Lord Ilowick did not wonder that Sir Robert Peel felt himself involved in some difficulty; the more especially when he recollected that in two of the largest and most opulent towns in the kingdom—Liverpool and Bristol—there was no qualification at all for the election of municipal officers. He trusted the House would not concur in the proposition. If they did, his consolation was, that the qualification he proposed to establish would be a dead letter.
Mr. HUGHES kluenus persisted in speaking, amidst loud shouts of " Divide ! " which made each sentence inaudible.
Mr. POULETT TuomsoN also rose ; but seeing the impatience of the Committee, he did not persist in attempting to speak.
A division then took place; and Sir Robert Peel's amendment was rejected, by 267 to 204; majority for Ministers, 63.
The clause was then ordered to stand part of the bill.
The 21st clause was agreed to.
The 22d clause enacts, that in 1836, and every succeeding year, one- third part of the Town-Council shall go out of office. Lord STANLEY moved to substitute the word " alternate " for " succeeding ; " thereby providing, that one-third of the Council should go out every two years, instead of annually. The main arguments by which he supported this amendment were—the turmoil consequent upon frequent elections ; and the want of steadiness in the conduct of affairs arising from repeated changes in the ruling body. Sir JOHN HOBUOUSE denied that disturbance would result from annual elections— What was the case in the City of London, where the election for Common Councilmen was annual? There was no ferment, or any thing like disturbance; but the greater portion of the body, once eleevd, were returned again and again. He repeated, that he doubted the return of any annual excitement such as Lord Stanley anticipated ; but if there were, that would be a_ cheap purchase for the advantages the community would gain by having control over the muni- cipal body.
Mr. SHEIL asked Lord Stanley, why, when be was a .Cabinet
- mister, he did not amend the Scotch Burgh Bill, in the manner be now proposed to deal with the English Bill ?
Mr. GOULBURN said, that if Sir John Hobbouse's principle were good, the elections for Members of Parliament ought to be annual also.
The Committee then divided on Lord Stanley's amendment : for it, 176; against it, 220; 60 the amendment was rdeded, by a majority 0.44.
The House then resumed, and the Chairman repotted progress.
On Wednesday, the House being again in Committee, the '.:2(1 clause was agreed to.
On the 23d being proposed, Mr. Cu altars Ber.r.r.a moved all amend- ment, to the effect, that instead of one third of the members going out annually by rotation, all the members should Le elected aunitially.
Lord JOHN RESstl.i., Sir JOHN CAMPBELL, and Sir J. R. lti.iu, op- posed the amendment. It was supported by Mr. CatOTE, Mr. W. WILLIAMS, anti Sir WILLIAM AloLLSWORTII ; but negatived, without a division.
The 23d clause then pass-ed.
The 24th clause regulates the mode of voting. Mr. 11 %nr.ow HoY proposed that the votes for members of the Town-Council be taken openly, in the same way as for members of the !louse of Commons; but alter a brief discussion, this ameedment was negatived.
Mr. Game then moved the following proviso, in order to give Town- Councils the power to adopt the ballot at elections, if they
chose- .. Prot idol aluay,,, that it shall be comp,t,nt to the Connell of nny borough, it au absolute nonjority of no. %% loge Iiiillibet I nut lilt so think lit, to direct that at eleetions for members of tlo• Council or of %udders for the nmLl bolough, the spies of the barge—es shall be taken inn die ILII.nwing manner : that is to say, that the poll Shan ht. tnheuu to banot lit the 'Mayer :14 ntfort,aid, or to such Clerk as tuay be appointed to take I he poll, in ma no.nr hereinafter mentioned, a folthof paper, containing the names of the persons for ninon such llorg,, rimy vote, :IS fit ala proper to be Couneillors or Alfilil ors ; bat Ito. ',kid Mayor or Cl.nr1; Atoll deposit OW San' folded poper.w Wand previonely opettin.i the sante, in a ball°. ing glas or hums. %Writ shall be elit:tx1 au 1,entlenl op at the time tinned tor the termination of the voting. as here- inafter declared That niter theelose of the nnaid ballot, t he Ma or as aforesaid, Si ith fear or moon inspector"; mpointed Ity the said l'onnwil, and in the presentee of such utimInn.r afire Connell as shall I hind: lit to :Mewl, I ti 1 protseed to unseal the Lox or giants, and examine then voting-papers ho liefiVertal tin tforesaid. for the ferrpose of liseertaining which of the several persons voted for are elected ; awl sit Many of such persons, being equal to the number of lite Couneillors then to be clio,c11, liaCe the gicalc,t number of votes, shall he deemed to be eleeted ; ana inn Ca,a, of an equalityinn tho number of votes Mr any two irr more per.ote, the Mayo nr shall name from uiuncnrrg.,t those person, nur whom tne moms., ot t,ttes shall be equal, so many as stall be necessary to complete dm nuptisite number of roillualior, to h. ebOsell :11111 Nlayor shall pubs risk a HO of the names of perseu so Heeled Councillors, within Mice da}s; (ex.
elusive of Sunday) from t he dieing of the poll."
Some converyation ensued ; in the course of which, Sir Joits HOII■ HOUSE pressed Mr. Grote to withdraw his motion— He °titivated the cordial cooperation of the House ; and he made no com- plaint ot• the reception the bill had received, because it certainly I' ml met with a very Lk share ot support ; hut if gentlemen whom they bail the pleasure of seeing on the Alitsi-terial benches really meant well to the bill, he implored them to merge their own minor differenees of opinion, to stand by the Government, and support the great principles of the bill.
Mr. Waal) horal Mr. Grote would withdraw his motion ; though, if pressed to a division, he would support it and that without meaning to impute :my di relietion of priffeiple to Nlinisters.
Mr. Geo.rf: then, very reluctantly, consented to o ithdraw his motion. The clause passed ; as did also the :26th clause.
The '27th clause ledlig read, a Alember moved,
o Time ill ,air p(rodif y of vote,. het %Veen any too Or illOre Of the candidates fo the office or ronivailor. N1 1. or shall draw by lot the nsptisite nunther, instead of tionlinatite2 the ,11.11.,fili call linlate."
The Committee divided ; and rejected the amendment, by 190 to 142. The clause was then agreed to. The 2Sth and 29th clauses received but little attention, and were ordered to stand part of the bill. On the 30th elause, will:di relates to the division of towns into wards, being proposed, Lord STANLEY moved,
" That 1. was expedient, if it should Appear tin ink Majesty in Council that the popu lat ion of a Is .r.01. anneortlinn: to t Inn Let l'arlianientary census. exceeded the number
of I0,1100. that it slaadd be divaled iuto a certain ruuruuutunr or wards not exceeding thres ;
if t he population Ola tuoututi,fin 1•Xceelloi i`4.01.10. tilat. it 010111.1 nntl. rims idea into more than six wards and if it should eineeen1 25,0110, that it might be divided into any number of wards tt hi, Maj-,1 y Ini4ht think fit."
Lord JOHN Itussia.l. promised to take the atnendment into con- sideration.
Mr. Hum f: hoped that Lord Stanley's amendment would not be ac- ceded to by Ai inisters. Mr. Seeisa; Hier thought there could be no reasonable objection to considering the prIposition.
Mr. KEARSLLY delivered the following speech amidst shouts of laughter— Ile hoped the noble lord would not for One moment listen to the honourable klember for 3liddlesex, or any honourable Aleinher On the 5Iinisterial bench ; Ire trusted that he would rather allow himself to be led by the good sense of the noble lord who had moved the anieudment, having in view the good of the country. IL fm-ired. however, that if the noble lord relied on the noble Secre- tary of State, he would depend upon a broken reed : he had no hesitation in saying, that he believed the noble lord would find that the noble Secretary of State for the Home Depaitment was weak in his knees.
The amendment was postponed, and the clause passed. The clauses from the 31st to the 36th inclusive were agreed to, and the Committee rose.
Previou-ly to the House going again into Committee on Thursday, Mr. CAYLEY requested attention to the following facts.
Some existing Corporations had, since the introduction of this bill, entered upon the practice of letting out corporate lands and other property on long leases; of C0111-SC on advantageous terms, and for which, one day or another, they would have an eqiiivalent at the expense of the interests of their trust. One instance of this kind lie had heard ot as having taken place in his own eonstituen y, vit the borough of Scarborough, where he understood they had would I ave the et! est 01 girls g tie Town-Clerks a tenure of their offices di r ng good behaviour. Ile considered this alteration necessary to secure the assistancc. of respectable attornics, who would not hold office if their conduct was liable to be made the anneal subject of debate with respect to their reelection or removal. Lord Stanley also considered it very desirable to secure the services of sonic experienced person in the capacity of Town-Cleik- Ile did not wish to take away from the Councils the power of removing their Treasurers, Clerks, and Collectors, which Wa4 given them by the bill; hut he was desirous that due pia:nattier' should be given to those %elm held the higher offices under it. It had already bucn zolouitted that the office of Coroner, which was nutter the control of die sante body as that to which his amendment re- ferred, tihould be beld during grind behaviour. It might he :faith however, that the office of Coroner was a judicial one, and therefore ought to be exempted from freqftent election ; but he weuld euutelol, that tho duties which devolved upon the Town-Clerk were of an equally impel:Int and permanent nature, and that his office was one which should be peculiarly kept uut ef the itffinenee of local allimosities and little ;abate jells which might frequently arise in a narrow sphere, bit. of which the Alembers of that House, as they teem out affected by tlann, could searcely have any knowledge.
Lord HOWICK replied to Lord Stank y's objections. Ile admitted the ineonecit:enee of frequently chaimi rig the Town. Clerk— It was certainly true that the T.11- C.M11161 would be a fluctuating body, and would very often have uluth u ent objects to accomplish ; but he took it for granted that the Town Council the time luting, however their views might vary on other matters, would be uniformly influenced by a desire to maintain their own rights to their full extent, and to carry as far :t- ift,ssible all their legal claims. It would, in fact, be their lir.t object to promote la :ill means their own interest.). Thin clot e the per sun most likt ly ti insure his conthmance in office was the ToweeClutk, ho had for the Ii i g tpetit.] rentaimid in office, and who had consequently acquired that esprit ience whieli best enabled him to stove those by yellow he ',vas employed. Hut if his tenure of office WolS made not really and practically during good behaviour, a the clause signified, but accord- ing Lo the efinnutment of Lord Stanley—lugally and technically dining goal behaviour—that the office should he held until proved miseenduct was urged against its possessor— the effect would certainly be, that the Town-Clerk would be made independent, but the Cooped weuld as certainly be rendered dependent. Lord Stanley must be polio:fly aware, that in existing corperations the Town- Clerk was the life and soul of those bodies. They were in truth mere puppets played by his hands, and managed entirely at his pleasure. That was a state of things wsieli he did not consider it desilahle to prolong. Ile was desirous that the Town-Clerk should he an office' having a reasonable security for the tenure of his office—that he should be a person not altogether independent of the Council, but bona fide their servant, and thelef,tre liable to die Just exercise of their authority. So much with respect to what might be called the legal duties of the Town-Clerk : he should next say a few wof do as to the working of the clause as regarded the inhabitants,I the towns, and amongst them the claimants for this office. The fears of Lord Stanley as to the probability that no respect- able practitioners would seek the office el Town-Cielk under this bill, were, he had goud reason to believe, without thundation ; for he knew that there was at this moment an active canvass going forward throughout the different towns for the office of Town. Clerk, by persons well jniuhiIlcil so fill it.
Sir ROBERT PLEL supported Lord Stanley's amendment ; and prin- cipally for the same reasons as those adduced by the mover. lie espe- cially dwelt upon the evil consequeutas likely to result front making the Town-Clerk a political officer.
Some conversation ensued between Sir JOHN Casteeet.s, Lord STANLEY, and Sir liobuier PELL. Sir JouN CArnenvii. declared that he never would take tare muter a 3Iinistry whi.se politics Inc disap- proved of; but he blushed to say, that in one instance an Attu' ney- General had retained office under an Administration opposed to that which haul appointed him.
Mr. O'CONNELL agreed with Lord Stanley, that the appointment of tha Town-Clerk should not be made a job— The question was, Asletber the appointment, as proposed in the clause, would or would not be a job. Ceitain he was, at all events, that if Ns officer were to he appointed duriog good behaviour, it ti ould become a permanent job. ( Cheers.) If this it ere to be the arrangement, the Town. Clerk would be the master, in- stead of the servant, of the Council. The noble lord, in speaking of the Council, and especially of the appointment of the Town-Cletk, had spoken of it as a job too contemptible for that flume to deal with : " 1 should be glad to know (con- tinued 31r. O'Connell) if any job can be too contemptible for this Ihtme to deal with. I should be glad to know hew the noble lord, sitting where he now sits, can talk of any job as ttai contemptible, and what job is too contemptible for the House to deal with? ( Cheers from the Treasury benches ; "011, olt!" front the Opposition ; ennui Cries 111. '• Order !") The noble had should not speak iu this strain "- Lord STANLEY—" I call on the lea ned gentleman to explain what be means." ( Cheers fiwut the Opposition.) O'Cosst:I.t.—" I mean precisely what I said." (Cheers from the Treasury benches. ) Lord STANLEY—" In plain terms, I insist on knowing the meaning of the charge he has made upon nue in the face of the House, and which charge I now in the face of the House call on him to explain." (Con- tinued cheering.) "I stand heir) on my character—( Great cheering)—my character is not at least to be publicly. attacked ; I shun always be ready to defend it here or else- where. (Enthusiastic cheering.) I ask the honourable and learned Member for Dublin, then, what he meatus by addressing to me the expression, that he would be glad to know how I, sitting in the place in which I did sit, could say that any job was too contemptible fin this Hume to deal is ith ? " (Continued cheering.) Mr. OTONNELE—" I said no such thing. (" Oh, oh !") I congra- tulate the noble lord car his extreme valour. 0' Oh, oh 11 I rejoice
at it. But if the noble lord bad taken exactly what I said, and had waited ontil I finished, there would have been no necessity for this display."
Lord STANLEY—" I call on you, then, to repeat your words."
Mr. O'CoNseta.—" My words are the words I used twice. ("Hear, hear!" " Go on !" " Repeat thee;!") I said I should be glad to know bow any job could be too contemptible for the House of Commons to think of—" Lord STANLEY—" They are not the words."
A number of Members on the Opposition benches cried out, " They are not the words."
Mr. O'CoNNEal.—" I say they are the words I used. (Cheers and " Oh, oh!") I am in possession of the House. I only said part ; I meant to go on." Lord STANLEY—"Then, Sir, I rise to order ; and I ask if it lie eon. sistent with the orders of this House, that any gentleman should here use these words of another gentletnan—‘ I should like to know how any Member, sitting where the noble lord sits, can say that any job is too contemptible for the House of Commons to think of.' " ( Cheers.) Mr. O'CONNELL—" Let me explain. I said two things I said I should be glad to know how any job could be too contemptible for the House to think of ; and I added, I should be glad to know how the noble lord, sitting in his particular plate, could say that any job was too contemptible for the House to think of. (Cheers and " Oh, oh !") I said this, and I repeat it." Lord SANDON said, he desired to know if the learned gentleman in. tended to make this charge upon all the indiviemils who happened to sit on that side of the House? If so, lie threw it back. They ora Isis side of the house bad as good a right to stand upon their characters as Members on the other.
Mr. O'CONNELL did not mean to attack the noble lord, or any in- dividual or body of individuals. Be spoke simply of the side of the House ; and he spoke politically, not personally. He would evert go further ; he would make them a present of their purity. (" Hear, lane!" and laughter.) He would even say that not one of them would even think of a job. (Laughter.) But to pass to the real question. Ile maintained, that the permaneney of the Town Clerk in office would necessarily make} • a jobber. Hotiout,ffile Mem- bers themselves, if they were permanently seated—if they were not responsible for their conduct to their constiments—woula ell, in his opinion, heconie job- bers. The noble lord has tilked of Councils being polifeal. The filet was, however, under the bill they would have peculiar duties apart from politics; they would be Municipal Councils for local purposes. Politics undoloo....4 might and would occasionally interfere, hut not in the manner appreliended by the noble lord. Should they, however, appoint permanently, a barrister or at- totney (the latter would be more likely to secure the place), they woold be creating a permanent politician and jobber. For this reason he would oppose the amendment.
Lord STANLEY again rose—. lie trusted the Committee would excuse him in turning away for a moment from the business strictly before the House, and allow him the indulgence of saying a few words with reference to another subject which had been just men- tioned. He should not allude to the attack personal to himself, neither would he allude to the attack upon a body of men agteeing with him in some puints and differing from him in others, by whom he happened, according to the ar- rangements of the House, now to be surrounded. He would, however, advert to one expression which, coming from whatsoever quarter it might, be was glad to notice. The honourable and learned lember for Dublin had spoken of hint as sitting on that (the Opposition) side of the House, and had coupled it with an accusation which it was not necessary for him in that House to throw front him. It was an attack of which he could take no notice, as coming from the honourable and learned gentleman. As to the point, however, on which he meant to touch, although it might appear of little importance really there, and of still less to the public out of doors, yet, as some importance was attached to the matter of sitting here or there in the House itself, he wished to say one word. At the commencement of the session, when a different Government was in power, he had adopted that line of conduct which was accottlant to his con- science and his feelings. Those did not enable him altogether to support the right honourable Baronet's Administration; yet was he determinesl not to oth.r any violent or factious opposition. Ile accordingly took his place on those benches which were suppowd to indicate neutrality between contending parties. On the accession of his noble friend's Government to office, he touk the same position, and from the same motives. Independent of office, he wisled to follow his own views; and by his place in the House he wished to indicate, that he meant to offer to his noble friend's Government no violent or factious oppesition —no opposition in which he did not feel himself perfectly justified, and to which he was not urged by a sense of duty. But observations had been lately inade which rendered it necessary for him to depart from the place Inc had seleeted ; but not because he had abandoned his former principles—not because he had suffered change. This he would maintain, whether be was attacked publicly in that House, where he could defend himself, or privately in other places, where he could not defend himself. When he found that one night, in discussing the details of a measure upon the ptinciple of which they were agreed, be, Mier having left his place for the put pose of voting to the best of his Judgment, was
teceived on his return to his seat with ironical cheers which in another place,
and under other circumstances, would have amounted to a personal insult— cheers which, at all events, coming as they did from honourable Menthe's oppo- site, intimated that be was not fit for their society—an opinion in which he most humbly acquiesced—(Loud cheers from the Opposition benches)—he could not be mistaken in the conclusion at which he bad arrived. The cheers
of the night in the House by honourable Members being followed up by coarse
and violent comments in tine morning by the newspapers, there could be no doubt of the intention. There was no choice left him on which be could for a moment pause. Determined on the one side not to permit insult which he could
find means of preventing, and on the other to give no offence, no alternative re-
mained for him except to withdraw from a society which did not like his pre- sence, and for which lie confessed he was unfit. He changed his place, then, because be wished to avoid giving or taking offence—because he felt that where lie had been, he was exposed to the annoyance of hearing observations about his friends and himself which inprivate could not be passed over, and occa- sionally from men wino o would not justify their expressions either in public or in private. He withdrew from the probability of that unpleasant and bootless collision to which he had been exposed. For that purpose, and that only, lie he bad changed his seat. He knew that thase he esteemed and respected on the other side had nothing to do with the matters to which he had alluded. His object in now speaking was to set himself right with them and the public. Ile did not wish that a mere personal movement should be represented as a poli- tical movement. He would not refer furtaer to the honourable and learned gentleman's observations. He would make no comment upon his general at- tack upon that side of the House, or on himself particularly, whom the honour. able awl learned gentleman selected as the object of a strain of vituperation, which he had thought worthy of the dignity and the delicacy of the House of Common,. Ile only hoped that the 'Members of that House, as gentlemen and men of honour, would feel that he, as a gentleman and a man of houour, was justified in the course Ire was pursuing. Lord Jonx RUSSELL expressed his regret at the difference of opt. nion which had occurred between himself and Lord Stanley last year. He also regretted the course which ha noble friend had eursued this year, and the other differences of opinion on matters of policy which had occurred between them; and which had uceured to such an extent, that whenever a division took place in that House on any contested point, his noble friend and himself were generally found on different sides. With respect, however, to the seat which his noble friend might think fit to occupy, that was certainly a matter entirely for his own decision ; and Le would not take the liberty of making a single remark upon that subject. But as to the cheets to wh.eh his
noble friend had alluded as having taken place at the dose uf some of the divi- sions, he must say, that he thought they proceeded rather frotn a disposition to excite a go d•humenred laugh, than from any more serious motive; and that hi. noble hind attached too muck importance to the circumstance. With tepid. toe, tu the comments of the public press, he thought his noble friend would better pursue the comse of duty to himself by disregarding what was said with- out the walls of that !louse, rather than by admitting himself to he Mfluenced by comments which they all knew appeared day after day, and which were fre- quently couched in terms of great violence and bitterness. 1 I is made friend had stated the his opinions were not changed by his change of place. I le had no doubt vf it ; but he could assure his noble friend, with regard to the whole course of his bli • cutaluet, both when he had the gaud famine to agree with his noble ma
friend, mad when he had the misfortune to differ from him, that he was tho, roughlo persuaded, that if there was any man on whom no imputation of ti ti. WCII thy !Wit iVeS COO I proisibly be east, and who acted universally on his own solo ict ions of iiLlt, that man tVaS his noble friend ; am! that no part in polities a.nab, fas nolsle friend ii lit take would ever induce him to believe that he de- viated fa mu his high chin:mei. and sense of honour.
The Committc•e then divided ; and rejected Lord Stauley's amend- ment, by 125 to 65.
The 5241 clause refers to the granting of alehouse-licences by the Town. Connaii. Sir JAM ES tht AM moved an amendment, which would still continue to the Alagistrates the power of granting those licenees—a power Nvhich, Sir James twice asserted positively, had never been abused.
Lord Homo; strongly opposed the amendment— One if the greatest abuses of the present state of the :11agistracy was, that it not nude eras without responsibility to the Crown, but was beyond the control of the People. The Government theught that the Magistratesought in the fist place to be chosen upon the recommendation of the People, but should derive their commission ft out the Crown. It was upon that principle—a print•iale which he com•eived to be perfectly in accordance with the principles of the Constitution—that tiny had introduced this provision. It the disttibution of alehouse-licences were left in the hands of the Magistrates, it might be made the vehicle of great influence, ivlaich would probably be .exercised for political pur- poses. The power was certainly an invidious flatlet— but it 'vas necessary that it should be placed in some hands or other ; awl they thonAt it most im- potent Ilk.t the hands in u•hiels it was placed should not be those of the Magis- trates who had the administration of cr tttt inal justice. They thought, in short, that the administration of criminal justice and political power should be kept as far separate as po•sible. And it was upon that aecount that they took the gramsea or usabaaae-neenees out of the hands of the justices.
Sir James Graham's amendment was then rejected, by a majority of '211 to 166.
After this division, clattses 53d, 54th, and 55th were agreed to ; and The Committee rose.
Lost night, great progress was made in the Committee. Clause 79th was postponed, and will come under discussion on A lunday. The other air:uses. down to the 94th inclusive were agreed to. The chief and ously important debate was on clause ir,ffitri ; which provides that certusin frustees, to be appointed by the Town- Councils, shall in re- gard to the distribution of charitable funds be placed in the same situa- tion as the existing Corporations. Mr. ESTeoURT and Mr. }Incurs lieouns wished some provisi su to be introduced to prevent Dissenters and' Ilmnan Catholics from interfering with tile distribution of Church patromge. Mr. IlauvEn spoke of the necessity of providing some separate power of control over the Trustees. Lord Ions: Rossras said, that Lord Brougham was about to introduce a bill which would establish some such power in regard to educational charities. .His object was only to place the Trustees appointed by the Town- Connell in the situation of the present Corporations. With respect to the general question of the management of charitable funds, he hoped that a measure would be proposed by Government for that end. Sir Roanter Peet, delivered a discursive speech on the subject of managing charities. Ile suggested, that instead of boards or commissions, ano- ther clerk should be added to the Home Office, whose duty should be the general superintendence of the distribution of charitable funds. Mr.
u•stE said, this would never do ; no clerk could perform the duty of superintendiog all the charities of the kingdom. Mr. Sennec Ries: wished the discussion of the subject to be postponed; and after a good deal more talking, the clause was agreed to as proposed by Lord John Russell ; the number of members of the Council eligible to be trustees: being limited to nine.
Clause field enacts that the new Councils should be Trustees of all the Local Acts of which the Corporations are now ex qfleia Trustees. Colonel Tannen wished to have some provision for the protection of the Church ; to prevent Roman Catholics front interferiag with its patemsage. Lord Joust RUSSELL said—" I MU not disposed to revive the penal code of Charles the Second." Mr. Law deprecated the taking away of property from trustees in whose hands it had been placed by the original donors for the good of the Church. Mr. O'CoNN ELL said, that Mr. Law, %Olen he talked of disappointing the will of the original donors, forgot " how many souls were now suffer- ing in Purgatory for want of the masses they gave their property to obtain ! " As Mr. Law was pathetic on the subject, so would he be, and appeal to the House on behalf of the suffitring souls. But there was no cause for apprehension, as no Catholic either in England or Ireland could present to any advowson. Jews and Atheists might present, but not Roman Catholics. Colonel TanNen agreed to post- pone an amendment, which he proposed, until the 79th clause was before the Committee; and the Chairman reported progress.
2. GOVERNOR-GENERAL OF NOLA.
On Monday, Lord Joust Ressraa. having moved that tile House should go into a Committee of Supply,
Mr. "'nano rose to move, as an amendment, for copies of any com- munications which may have passed between the Board of Control and the East India Directors in regard the revocation of the appoint- ment of Lord Ileytesbury as Governor-General of India. 7.11r. Praed contended at length, in support of his motion, that the only reason why Lord Heytesbury was not permitted to proceed to India as 'Go- vernor- General, was the difference in political opinion between his Lordshio and the present Ministers. Of Lord Ileytesbury's qualifi- cations to fulfil the ditties of the office, no one could doubt ; it was, therefore, merely a political difference which occasioned the revovation of his appointment. Now, he contended that this was an insufficient ground for such a proceeding ; inasmuch as the rattice rid' regard to Indian affairs was not to let domestic polities have any weight. Act- ing on this principle, Sir Robert Peel's Ministry bud not recalled Sir Robert Grant or Mr. Macaulay, although Mr. Praed intimated that Lord Ellenborough had reason to be dissatisfied with some of the conduct of the latter gentleman. Mr. Prated also contended, that the East India Directors should have the power of appointing the Governor- General of India, and that it was most unwise to mix up the direction of Indian affairs with European politics. With respect to the revoca- tion of the appointmetit, there was only one precedent for it, and that occurred in time ease of Sir George Ballow ; whose appointment, how- ever, was not cancelled until the East Italia Directors and the Govern- ment had amicably arranged the matter. Mr.Praed also adverted to some difference which haul occurred between Sir Julio Hoblunase and the Ilireetors, relative to the dine %t hen Government would take upon itself the appointment of a Governor-General in case the Directors should neglect to nominate him— In the act of Intal it was provided, that if, after the vacating of the Governor- Generalship, the Directors of the East India Company failed to recommend a successor to the Crown in two months, the appointment of that successor should lapse entitely into the hands of the Crown. Ile understood, however, that it was the intenrou of Gover nuoeut to count the two months, not from the vacat- ing of Lord fleytesinarv's appointment, but from tile period of land Williatn Bin-nick's rennin. If that were really the intention •of the Goverannent, he maintained tint it would be an anomalous and uneonstitmiomal proceeding, and woubl be !being tl.e East India Company in 1 position v.: .eli they had never occupied before, ieal which could not fail of being most iota:mils to their inte- rests, as well as to the good peen nment of the great empire of India. Sir Jinn N I I °tutor s rept esented, that it %vould be extremely incon- venient and in unions to make public the denmunieations which passed between the India Board and the East India Direction:. He then went on to justify the revocation of Lord Ileytesbury's appointment. He quoted the authority of Lord Grenville to move that the power of ap- pointing a Governor-General rested substantielly with the Ministers of the day ; and the reason why the present Alinisters had refused to sanc- tion Lord Heytesbury's appointment was, not because they had any personal objectiou to his Lordship, but because they could not con- scientiously intrust the government of so vast a territory to a person of his political opinions. It was necessary that they should be in con- fidential communication witlt the Indium Viceroy, and they had no confidence in Lord Heytesbury. Sir John I loblususe admitted, that if Lord Heytesintry had actually sailed and the appointment been Cont. Octet], it would have been a question whether he should have been re- called, as in that ease the Government %alibi' sari:blotted hie appoint- ment avould have been responsible for his acts. But Sir John would not make himself responsible for Lord Iley teshury's acts by agreeing to his election by the East Italia Directors. With respect to the as- surance he had given the I/hectors that the Governor- (IL aural should not be appointed until too months nfter Lord Bentinek's arrival, he would inform the House, that When the King's Government thought it their ditty ta vacata the appoint- ment of Lord !hale-bore, th-y music:I:led it right to it:tin:ate to the Court of Directors that they woula not take advantage in any way of the lapse by which, according to both the old and the new act of Parliament. if the Court of Directors did not appoint a Governor withia two months of the vacancy, the appointinent fell to the Crown. Having made this communication to the Board of Directors, he had the satisfaction of being informed by them that the arrange- ment was perfectly satisfactory to them. He did not mean that the vacation of Lord Heyteshury's appointment was satisfactory to them, fin h., believed it was most unsatisfactory to theist ; but he meant that the assurance he gave them was satisfactory, he having received a communication fa om them that his word of honour was suffwient for them. Shortly after, however, he had another letter from the Court of Directors! asking Inon whether or not his letter 'night not be Lilly interpreted to mean that the two months should commence to run from the arrival I if Lord William Bentinek, and not from the vacation of Lord Hey tesbury's ap, 'Mut merit. In his reply, he said that he thought there eandd be no doubt about his meaning being that the two months should commence to run from the vacating of the warrant of Lord HeytteThney's appointment ; but he added, that if it was more agreeable to the Court of Directs,rs, which he saw fi on their letter it witulil be, that the time should rommence to rim from the arrival of Lord 'Sentinel:, the Government Avere willing they should have the greatest latitude in interpreting his letter, end that they woe the masters to say whether the two mouths should commence to run from the vacation of the ap• pninttnent of Lord Heytesbury or not. So far from this being a matter of charge against the Government, he thought it should be matter of praise.
Sir John then defended Alr. :Macaulay from the imputation of mis- conduct made against him by Mr. Praed-
It appeared that there had been a difference of opinion as to the construction of a clause in the Act of Padiament, awl a hat he had signed papers both in a legislative am! aim executive caputeitv. Lord Efienberough. on learning this, took counsel's opinion oa the point ; anti bad for ;answer, that the Act of Parliament did not permit Mr. "Macaulay to act in any way except as a legislative member of the Council, and that a power of inter ft-retire on his part as an executive member was not sanctioned by the Act. There were, however, some doubts as to the correctness of that construction ; and when the matter was before him three or four days ago, he was not quite sure whether some precise order should be sent out to prevent any mistake in future. But that Mr. Maeaulav had com- mitted any gross error, of a nature which would justify his reval, he denied; and he denied any merit to the late Government for not recalling him.
Sir John again adverted to the real and substantial reason why Lord Ileytesbury was not permitted to proceed to India; namely, the im- possibility- of a Liberal Government having any confidence in him- " The Government might, indeed, have adopted a different course—they might have shrunk item the responsibility attached to their high tallies—they might have emu-calm cowardice under the mask of candour, and have taken ci edit for a finbearance which their consacii.nce mail have told theta was prompted solely by kar. By such conduct they would perhaps have won the tempo:ca. y and indnoTe applause of their ;elvers:tries; but tliu•y would have in- curred, and would It 'awaited, the suspicion if not the censure of their own adherents. Such conduet wonld have disgraced any Administration in any day ; bat for men engaged in great, in perilous. and I most be permitted ta add, honourable and oseful enterpi ises— for men presuming ti hold the reins of
power in these littles—to delegate duties of the Liaises,: importance to ant- but functionaries of known and tried attachment lioth to their crieciples and per- sons—snch fechlence,s, I say, would he not only feelisiu butt fistal. For, yielding, as would have been the case in this instance, to difficulties of their own creating, and which a tine regard to their honour and to their interest would hive forced them to encounter, they would, it is pm (amble, have dropped fawn concession to concession, until, losing the last remnants both of their power aral their cha. racier, they would have fallen for ever, covered with the bitter scorn of their enemies and the contemptuous pity of their friends. For my own part, I would rather fail at once in an honest tffort, surrounded by faithful friends, than owe a precarkus success to the cold cooperation of dubious, distrustful allies. With the one I could console myself under defeat; with the other, I could scarcely be reconciled to victory." lie concluded by saying, that, Feeling the necessity of acting on this, to him incontrovertible principle, of an union of political views and interests, the Govertiment would proceed iu the saute course, uad wherever the principle applied, art inconformity with their present practice. Sure he was, that so acting, whatever might be the result as to l'arlianientaly majorities, ;Ministers would be not only supported by the ap- probation of their owu consciences, but cheered in their COUISC by the approving voice of the country. Mr. liEnntier, Mr. Homo Mr. C. Permast, and Sir Rourter PEE!., briefly suppol teal Air. Prried's idotion ; repeating, for the most part, that gentleman's arginneots. Air. Cut Lao FtemeasoN, Mr. ‘'ERNON SMITH, and Lord JOHN R USSI.LL, Spoke on the other side. Mr. Saturn said In spite of the calm and temperatc tone in whidi the suhject had licen intro-. duced, he could consider it aj 1041101g blIt a pity motion, bromtlit forward for party purposes. ( Land cheers fe,an the bettelers—‘• Nit, nit !" front Oppo.vition.) SO much had lately been said of attempts to defeat important measures by side-winds, that he would not s,iy the present motion was brought forward with any such object. ("Oh, us !") 'flue House divided : for Mr. Prited's motion, 179; for going into a Committee of Supply, 2...11 ; Mimiistiial majority, 75.
3. Am o TO lite Scordso Cilueett.
On A%'etInestlity, the debate oil Sir W. liaCe motion for a Commit- tee to inquire into the expe,lielley of grantiog a sum of inthicy to the Church of Scotland, which dt bate was adjourned on the ii th of June, was resioned; Lord Jon:: ilesseee. nioviog as an amendment,
^ Thal all 10i a,111,• 1/0 141,■•11101 ti I, 141 •,ty. prat ilia that las Malt ,ty will
itegraeiitto.1% appti. t a I Ittainii,ital it, inquire into the opport it re-
ii„.1011s IN.11 Ili, 11,1 1110.111, it religions 111■1 1E1 4.01,11 ,uperildt.tilletwe afford I Ilo• peopl.• if Svollanol, nil Ivo% tar th,., are 01 ..%.1i1 for I he rel:Liiiats iii 111110rirl .•1/1,•lIl or ill- p c ccii it tto son:an:4 eta •-uo :ma with this VielS iii,- 111111 110..1 wri ml,..ir plavoi it anil ii le- foal 01111,••'...,:l a,it:III:. I ::i•JII; Itr 111./11ile lo IISIt are 110W, or inay I it,, ht. i 111.■110 tu,. the Estataidued chinch 1of ;,1:01111111 ; 111111 ;11 Amt. c.a.,Ii:e to tin: in ,■.'er I at 11:11 I•1:111) istiog ur l IS Pm-lam:cm maytI.4 it."
Lord John mailitained, that At emeriti ...ion of ineft:!ry Ivas necess:ary, hi order to ascertain the amount of the actiol soota of the Scotch population, told the alVaihibie hilt& of the C'e. !:. 'ttpcstilt the statements were very cotitlicting. A Constoio, :• woeld 110t 111-. Ode to obtain satisfactory refer:tie:bat, which beth re pa.aft.ctly will-
ing Should be the wounds:milt. of ally lcidittive cii.ee.re.
The amendment Bono rly pi oposeel 1. .1 Murray was
withdrawit ; and that ninvm1 by Luo 1. .1, a.: ,11,:o from thethair.
It svas opotoual t:t some leogth, but jut ituad. uotc. 1.1cgma4u.., by Alr.
ICtimmtst: II.: ii; who e:.1 re. st ions as to tii,, kind
of treatment thee the Glituel: seetild ree,ive (root tm's, tiltimough Lord John spoke u fair:y.
Sir Itourate Perm supported the amendment ; on the groom' that it Was too late iii the session to lot:cued in 1110 inquiry by IiiCatIS of a Cononittee. Ile wi !lad, however, that after the wcrds " pastoral superintendence," the words under tile Feoablishinent of the Church
of Scotland.' sb until be introduced ; for it was important in principle to introduce some expression more dist:iictly reeegaizibg the claims of the Church of Southold.
Lord Jorix itesseht. and Lord Hots tee oppcsed the insertion of the words. Leol JoliN Rt.s. i. . .ct 1, that the wording of his motion Lad been approved of by sevamil codatvit members of the Scotch Church ; and Lied ilossiex said, that the words might be misinter- preted by the IIIssenters, aid produce angry to. lings.
Sir I , Sir I I olitil, CLEBK, Sir IV. Rut:, Mr. Sete- c ea or, and I , ..• a few words.
'iii. •.1, • Jot:. .:tten:pteil to add.ess the IIotie; but the
it iat tti•lwarell dsiermincd not to liLar
and he v.:. .•.. : ..)
Sir IV I mov, .. to leave out the wools relating to an
inquiry inte the •• I ut. the Church.
Air. Ili:so: opposed this amendeicia; and it sees negatived without a division ; and The motion of Lord John Russell was then agrced to, aem. con.
4. Ton Icswico Burtnals.
Ott lioutley, Mr. DevoNsto Jai asoN called the attuaion of the House to e.st case of 2u1r. O'Malley ; whose health was very delicate, and whose family, Mr. Jackson could assure the House, was highly respectable. Ile had suffered much by his imprisonment in Newgate, and the punislt•tmlit Ss a, lilt I Ii sit1t1 un lit for Oleo:knee; as Mr. 0' Mal- ley, who/ was only twenty-four or (wet, iv- five yeals of age, hall only seen one of the it it tiesscs once, alai knew nothing of the Ips%%iell case until two days before the Committee met. his family was of great respectability in the county of Afar:).
Air. D. BitowNe also spoke to the re..pertability of Mr. O'Aitilley's family. In the course of a desultory conversation which ensued, some Members advocated leniciley, some severity, towards Mr. O'Malley; the Opposition Aiembers uniformly bespoke the indulgence of the House. Mr. Rolex 1Vasoso after the case of O'Malley had been disposed of, moved that the Norwich magistrates, Bignold tom Booth,
should be committed to the custody- of the SetecantottoArins, 11:r their breach of the privileges of the House in the matter of the Ipswich election petition. Air. Wilson real extracts Bum the printed e■idence in support of his motion. Mr. 1'. Ai. Srosvoter thought tItat Air. Wason was going rather too far ; and moved as an amendment to hubs motioti, that Messrs. Ilignold and Booth be ordered to attend at the bar of the House un the follow- ing Saturday.
This amendtnent, after sonic discussion, was agreed to.
On Tuesday, on the motion of Air. JACKSON, -:11r. Hornsby Cooper was called to the bar to speak to Mr. O'Malley 's health. It :appeared
from Air. Cooper's evidence, that he was nut ...Jr. reetilar
inedicel attendant, but that lie bad been taken to A. tryut u by 311. Kelly to see Air. O'Aialley, and give a certificate as to his state 01 health.
Altogether, Mr. Cooper's evidence was so unsatisfactory to the I louse,
that it was agreed that Dr. l'err or Sir Ascii:). Cooper shoal(' be examined, b.-fore Mr. O'Malley was tlischareed ; as it appeared that one or the other of these gentlemen was Air. (•Altill..)'s soedical adviser. Mr. 0' CONNELI: remarked, that this bringing bass ord Of Mr. Bransby Cooper was a mere mockery of the House, or something very like it.
Bond, Clamp, and Cooke, (the agents of Kelly and Dundas in the work of bribery), were then called in, reprimanded, and ordered to be discharged on the payment of fees. This ceremony having been performed; Mr. GisnonNE moved that the Attorney-General be instimeted to prosecute all parties who appeared from the evidence before the Ipswich Election Connnittee to have been guilty of Nilo my. There was only one dissentient voice to this motion ; which was ac- cordingly carried. On 1Vedtiesday, Dr. Farr was called in, and gave eviticove as to the state of Air. O'Aialley's health; which he represented as very tit licate. Mr. O'Malley was subsequently brought to the bar ; severely repri- manded by the SPEAKER, and ordered to be discharged on payment of fees. Lord JorIN Ressehe stated the mode of proceeding he wished to be adopted in the further investigation of this ease, and with respect to the Norwich Magistrates, who were to appear at the bar on Saturday-
Consitlei Mg the state of the business of the House, and the number. of wit- nesses which might have to be examined, he had come to the conclusion that the inquiry haul better be undertaken by a Select Committee. Ile shook! ac- cordingly move the appointment of the Committee on Friday ; and ado that it be appointed as several of the same nature Were last year and the yeau . before— viz, nine or eleven 'Members being choscusby lot, and two bong automated by the House, one on behalf of each party.
5. Tut: CATHOLIC OATH SIR ROBERT INGLIS AND Mn.
O'CONNELL.
On Monday, Sir ROBERT INGLIS Stlij, that he wished the House would tallow him to revert to the discussion which ensued last week Mr. WYNN said, that sonic points had been too hardly pleased against Mr. O'Aialley- It had heel said that in his examination he hail put forward the protection of his privilege; as a counsel, to avoid answeting particular questiote4; but it
should be rec :114:eted that lie had himself tau tight or authority to waive those privileges with respect to any thing which came to his knowledge in hit pro- fessional capacity. Of course, if, under the pretence of having mord in that capacity, he had refused to supply information which he had not obtained pro- fessionally, then the House was bound to inflict punishment on
Lord Jorix Itessole. could not conceive a more grave offetive against the privileges of Parliament, than that of aiding and abettiog parties to abscond, whose evidence was required before u Committee of the House.
If in any one instance, the 'louse allowed such a conspiraey to be suceessful,
they would d..bar themselves from all nicaos of amp:ring evidence ii p uu all si- milar caws; they would make Election Committees a mere nullity, mid cause bribery to be noire successful than ever ic had laven. Therefore it W4,4 that he considered the present to be a ease of mote than ordinary importance ; and one in which it behoved the House to make a distinction between the trcattnent which they should awaid to parties ittiplieattti in it, and that %Odell ought to be awaided to those concerned in a case of a less momentous kind. With re- svect to O'Malley, Sparrow, and Clipperton, he thought that there was ‘11:,locwojutuhisdet reason at present for opening the gates of Newgate to them. On the contrary!, offences which these individuals hail committed, lie knew not if they declared a temporary imprison :limit to be a sufficient punhilliumit-Int call upon the courts of justice to inflict a sevete punishment upon laboto i.ig men, who were earning ten or twelve shillings a week for the suppor t of their families, because they had accepted it bailie of :20/. or flu/. in order to int:lease their means of affording that support. If Inc House ote;lit to punish any parries at all, he believed that those individuals were foc persons Ilion whom the 1:41iction ought to fall. Ile agreed that the eases of Dom! and Cooke were somewhat, though not materially, different frien dime of Pilgrim and Dasent, iii. iuht had been decided the other night. It was desirable to In4he a distinction be. twcen those parties who had 1:01110 forward to give evidLIICt., :0111 01'1,11 0 110 had absconded and not at any time given any. If the eases of these Indic u mils were to be brought forwattl some tl,ty this wetl, and a midi: Ii made for that! iibera..
tion, he did not think that it evoithl ticcessai v any farther to detain them. Vilith reference to the chatge of Inibery, he limits1 that 3.Ir. lie would
soon introduce his motion for an instruction to the Auto ney-liento al to prose- cute all parties who, ium this case, had been implicated in it. The sooner such wem got rid of h the Home, and u.eitt into the 1.011;" is Of law, t lo• better., litibery WitS a legal offence, and could not be Letter disposed of than in being sent lielhre the legal tribunals of the cemitry. After several Members bail addressed the liouse, Mr. Jeer:sofa presented a certificate from Air. Bransby Cooper, stating, luti,ti
vague and getterril terms, that Air. O'Altilley's health wool
in- tired by his emitintied confinement in Newg:Ite ; and Air. Jackson moved that the prisoner should be brought to the bar, rep :moulded, amf discharged. The galleries were cleared for a division ; but it was agreed that Mr. Cooper should be call yd to the bar tlte treat day, to gist to idenee as to the state of .11r. 0' Alal!ey's health. [not..1 the low tone in NI Ilia many of the ..Alenibers spoke and the of talking atm: .ii■eorbtearr and in the body of the House, it was quite impossible for the to gis-e a fell or correct account uf this discussion.] On his presentation of a petition respecting the oath of the Catholic Members. That discussion had been adjourned, on the motion of Lord John Russell; but although he was sitting opposite to Lord John, conversing with the Recorder of Dublin, Mr. Shaw, on the sub- ject under debate, be was not aware of Lord John Russell's motion until it had been agreed to. lie meant to tuake no complaint that the subject 111(1 been taken out of his hands ; but lie wislad to stand right with the llouse as to the attack that bad been made upon hint. Ile did not know At-hi:tiler the honourable and learned Member who made the attack wa9 now in the House ; but he wished it to be understood, that whatever offence of this kind he might be exposed to, he would 111111:11 rather he the eloject of it than the itssailant. Without adding more to the irregularity of wloch he w 14 now guilty, in :pivoting to the suldeet when the seas no question before the House, he %%mold only ronark, that he had been no party to the premature conclusion of the discussion. On the contrary, Ile Was directly opposed to it, and had no intention of submitting or truckling to any oppositiou he might meet with. Ile would not be prevented, either here or elsewhere, limn stating his opinions fully and freely, by any thing that might be said by the honourable and teat ned Members fur Dublin or Tippet ary. Mr. O'CoNNot.—" I made no use of language which the ordinary rules of this House do not authorize: • to these I confined myself. Sir Rourier Doets—" I allude to your personality."
Mr. O'Coxstit.—" Personality ! lie charged me with row:ay." (Vehement (heering.) Mr. O'Connell continued-
" I want to know whether a rosin, who charges another with perjury, has
a right to complain of personality ? 1,4 such a Mall to call for the sympathy of the llouse, bv an allegation that the delicacy of his individual feelings has 1/121`11 Villia1C11 be personality ? 1(141 then condescend to give an explanation of the nature of the oatii; I never will du it again : but if a man accuses me of iterjury, I cannot find so Irani ti rips to answer him, but in more moderate language, 1 eau accuse him of wilful 'giro,. (3beel■ aml conftsion.1 Do gentlemen Sr ho igicrimplion)—do gentlemen who—(.Thiee ;nit eylitm )um the nt ir.)—do gentlemen, I say, Idol exclaim thus, think that the chaige of perjoir ought not to be met by adequate terms? I know of no Dog-tinge, the strongest 1 could use, that would be adequate. In the tray I hare met the charge now, I will meet it in future ; I will not condescend to bandy eivil terms with anv man WItO presumes to make such an aceusation. I feel that there IS nO man in the Ilouse less capable of committing that clime. I have EMI many hist:tures (vhere those who ii y out loudly about thesanctity of an oath, have li,1211 It for partisan purpmes, at the very moment when they (vete most ready to taunt and revile. In this Douse, I do not expect to tind such ; but if 1 do—and kr who will dare to make the charge—I will tepel it in the
strongest language I e: In employ." ( 'Iiiins.) Sir limner INnids rose immediatt ly, and said-
" The honourable and learuol Member, in an hypothetical form, los loom guilty of the grossest outt.tge that une man. in a substantive shape, ton C0111111it 11111011:11lotht:n I call th,,,:fole upon rim, Mr. Speaker, who sit here to protect the freedom if dehate, to intopme. let me add, tied so long as ■ sit in that chair, it is volll 1111i1. to guard the imlieithold honour of Meitilwrs—t." NO. no !" awl 410,r. j— from being insulted. ( Cruets from th, ;me bmo.h.w.) I hardlr know what is meaut by the clews by which I am interrupted. I desire that any honourable gentleman who cheers me will rise in his place."
Mr. O'CoNet tr. started up, and exclaimed, " I cheered ;" Mr. 111-1.11rEN at the 55 rile moment got up and said, " And I cheered." (Lame/tine. ehe, 0,, grey! excitement in the I !wise.) Several 3Iem-
hers had their hands upon the backs of the seats, evidently with the intention of following the example of Messrs. O'Connell and Rutliven, but Sir Ronda Iseets continued- " If the honouralde and learned Member had said substantively what he has said hypetlettieany, be would have committed one of the grossest min ages a
man can offer to another. ( heers. owl crivs of !") I know the mean- ing of that " :No ;” it means that if the charge is made again, it will be so met again. ( Cheers from .3/r. O'('minell.) I call upon you, Mr. Speaker, to protect the deliberations of the Douse, and 1 shall sit down contented with your date initiation."
Mr. O'Coxsted.—" And 1, Sir, call upon you to protect the Mem- bers of this I louse from the charge of /*dare. That any 111a11 should call for the protection of the Chair who calls others perjured !"
Lord Joie: Ru sLi.t. ohjected to such accusations being given, sub- stami vely or Ityeetlaitically.
The SIT:tat:It Said, that it was unfortunate that this discussion bad arisen. Umlonleedly—it WaS 110( to be di,euised—the word .‘ perjury " was a very strong expression. As to call fOr the protection, 11r. Aber- cromby continue:I-
" I always understood that terms only conditionally applied were not such
29 called for the interposition of the Chair. Thus, I recollect one of the oldest Members of this flume using this phrase without reproof—, I state, in answer to the hoaourahle go:tic-man, in the strongest terms that can be hypothetically put, that what he has said is false.' When a hypothetical form is once adopted, the Chair is not required by his office to interfere. I shall never hesitate, how- ever, when called upon, to express the strongest opinion that the use of such language is extremely inconvenient, and inconsistent with the freedom as well as with the decorum of debate. The freedom of debate can never be better se- cured than by honoorable Members conducting it with temper. I, therefore, hope that the usual business of the House may now proceed.
The altercation was thus put an end to. [It is unfortunate that the high back to the Speaker's chair prevents all that he says being heard in the Reporter's Gallery, which is im- mediately behind it. Mr. Abercromby speaks in a tone of voice that might be distinctly heard horn any other scat in the House. In the Strangers' Gallery on the opposite side, we should think that every word must be beard.] 6. TIIE IRISH CHURCH COMMISSION.
lie would ask their Lordships, to what purpose were the attacks now made upon the character of the Commissioners? The time had been allowed to pass when they could do any good. If they were well- founded, they ought to have been !nought forward before. But now, when the Commissioners had made a Report which was, perhaps, not agreeable to some ears—when many arguments and statements were founded on that Report, which were perhaps, not more agreeable—then, the Report being so unfavourable, perhaps—he did not say therefore—the only resource was to say that the Report was not to be believed, because the character of the persons who made it was so aud so. The assertion that Mr. 11`Dermot was a notorious Roman Catholic. agitator, was utilotiuded. if lie chose to look back for testimony, he could show that the gentleman in question had been even termed i renegade, because he hail not taken the part itt politics of late that he did formerly. That he WaS an agitator in the years Is24i, 1827, and I si2S, he agreed. ( Opinmition elm is.) Nay more, lie be- lieved that he, with many others, writhed under the exclusion and disabilities to which the Roman Catholics maim ti miserly most unjustly subject. But that he had done any thing to show that he was a dangeions subject, that he was dead to the Coustitation, or that he was an improper man to be employed otz any question s%• hid in the remotest degree affected State poliey—or any matters requiting energy, or exettion, or judgment, or diwretion—he denied. But the name of this gentleman, it was said, had been coupled with agitation previous to the year 1st:9, therefoi e he was not to be employed by the Government. would the Isidtop of Exeter tell him that his own name was not coupled with agitation lienite the year 1829 1 ( Greif/ ehorinp. 1 Did he not write Mt 1;11 pamphlets ? Did he not attend public nwetings ? Did he not aid the c not, which he advocated, Ity giving to it the influence which belonged to his great talents and high character ? Who, in short, was tua an agitator, who, when an important public measure WaS tO he discussed, had the energy and to come lieblre his countrymen ? Ile would say, that so f,r from the III t which Mr. 31-Iferniot took making a case against him, it Was ill his favour. The Duke of Welt txeros: said, the simple question was, whether a man who was admitted to have been an agitator, was a tit person to be employed as a Commissioner ? No answer hail been given to that question. Lord AII:i.BOUliNt: said, the Commission had not produced the bad Greets on the public mind which had been prophesied by the parties hostile to it— Under these ciromistanees, he thought it would hare been as well if the Bishop of Exeter had forborne to come forward with his statements of facts, statements of opinions, statements of an Mg, asserted on one thy and contra- dieted the next, giving rise to one debate .old leading to another, and newer coining to any satisfactory end one tray or another on any part of the subject.
With res poq to the agitators for Etnaneipation,
Tbcre were litany who declared themseIves satisfied with the measure, and who engaged no further in politics ; inil he did think that such persons, iustead of being pissed over, ought to be especially distinguished. 31r. N.1'. Olior* man alio:1W an instance of himourable cotelnet such as he had adverted to. I le admit tc.1 that the Commission ought to be composed of Miro Lid individuals; but he could not think that a man Living been a member of the Roman Catho-
appointed a
lie Association seven years ago, ought to exclude Idol from being 111,.'lliber Commission. Nor did he feel that the ease was made any
st Longer by the moat of an after-dinner speech &live( ed on the occasion of a
nes:ting at Ballina-loc, so long ago as IS27. inn1 did not think tliere was any foundation Mr the unlimited censure of wh 31-Dermot had been the subject.
31,seere,Astrors Sumo-Ts.
NATrox.st. E meet-nos:. In the house of Peers, on Tuesday, Lord BeouttitAm withdrew his resolutions on the subject of National Education, at the suggestion of Lord Aliattoults:E; who, while he expressed his approbation generally of Lord Brougham's views on the subject, objected to ;fledge himself by voting for the resolutions, to all filet they contained. Lord BuoronAm defeeded his resolutions at some length; and maintained that as yet, little worth notice had been done by the Government in promotion of the great object he bad in view.
Last night, Lord linourotAm presented a bill, in which the chief points of his resolutions were embodied : it was read a first time, and ordered to be printed.
SPANISH A ROI AMENT. The Marquis of Loximsornity put a ques- tion to Lord Alehourne on Thursday, as to the treatment which the l;ricish allxiliary force would receive in Spain, in case any of there were taken prisoners by the Carlists. On a former occasion, Lord Mentourne hi el said that they would he included in Lord Eliot's con- vention ; but Doti Carlos had since issued a decree deelaring that all strangers found ill arms against Iii ni would be immediately shut. Lord A11.1.1toUltsl: liOW said, that be had merely given his opinion that the benefits of Lord Eliors convention would be extended to the uueili- aries ; but he could not tell how that convention might be interpreted by the powers in Spain. As for the proclamation or decree, he be- lieved it to be a forgery.
TrmrOltAlti" llor sr or Loans. On Monday, several members of the House of Peers complained of their temporary place of meeting being too small, and inconvenient. The air too, they said, was un- wholesome. Lord liROUGHAot said—
The present house was about one of the most inconvenient places that could
be imagined. Though it was small, it was Intl for hearing ; its temperature was had, for though it might require healthy ventilation it was full of draughts, so that he was in absolute horror when he heard of opening apertures for sir. fa fact, he thought that the ingenuity of man could hardly contrive any thing better, not as a sample of a house of Parliament, but as a beacon, as a warning to all future architects not to attempt the erection of a building which should possess SO many iliconveniences as they enjoyed here. It was so cold here, that after sitting in the house in the morning, he had gone out into a north wind to enjoy the benefit of a milder temperature. Ile had so long been accustomed to very inconvenient places, such as our courts of justice, that he himself made no com- plaint ; and if the expense was considerable, be was ready to go on as at present.
Lord DI*NtANNON bad asked Sir Robert Smirke, whether by taking from the thickness of the walls something could not be done to make the House more convenient. He also had inquired whether the House
could be enlarged by the building of new walls, leaving the roofs and facings as at present ; thirdly, whether a temporary house could be fitted up in Westminster Hall ; and fourthly, whether he could make any proposition by which the accommodation for their Lordships, even under the present plan, could be increased ; and whether any apertures could be made to admit the air so as to ventilate the house in a better manner than at present. The best mode of stating the answers to these questions would be by reading the letter. Lord Due- cannon then read a letter from Sir Robert Smirke; which stated,
That moiling could be taken from the walls, a hich were built in such a rought manner, and with such peculiar materials, that their thickness could not be diminished except by actually taking them down and rebuilding them ; that
the house could be enlarged by taking down the mirth wall of the present house, and building up to the south wall of St. Stephen's Chapel, which would give a room about the size of the present House of Commons; and that it would not be possible to fit up Westminster Hall in the way proposed on account of the expense, of the impoasibility uif lllll ving the Courts, it the difficulty of warm- ing the place without injury to the building, and of the want of rooms adjacent for the purpose of committee-rooms. Lord DIHICannOn then said, that he should propose on the following day to submit the letter of Sir Robert Sinirke to the Building Com- mittee. On Tuesday, accordingly, his Lordship moved, and the Peers agreed, to refer the letter to the Committee.
GOVERNMENT OF NEW SOUTH WALES. A petition was presented to the House of Commons by Mr. H. Brawrit, luso night, from six
thousand free inhabitants of New South Wales, praying for the esta-
blishment of a separate Legislature for that colony, which contained 60,000 inhabitants, and had an annual revenue of 135,000/. Sir 6Fount: GREY stated, that in 1836 the Act by which the government of the colony was regulated would expire; and in the meanwhile, he would give the subject his best consideration. Ministers were strongly de- sirous to give to New South Wales the advantages of civil institutions. Mr. Hume. and Mr. O'CoNama. urged Ministers to take the earliest steps possible to carry their intentions into effect.
DISSENTERS' CLAIN'S. Lord JOHN RUSSELL stated, On Monday, in reply to some questions and observations by Mr. \Visas, that it was the intention of Ministers, early next session, to introduce measures for the establishment of a general system of registering births, mar- riages, and deaths, fir regulating the mode of Dissenters' marriages, and for the abolition of Church-rates. Mr. Maas said, that, from extensive communication with the Dissenters, be could say that they were willing to postpone the settlement of their claims, in order to facilitate the progress of the Municipal and Itish Church Reform Bills.
POOR-LAWS FOR IRELAND. Mr. O'CONNELL gave notice, on Mon- day, that if after the Report of the Irish Poor-Law Commissioners had been laid on the table, Government did not SOCM bring forward a ..measure for establishing a system of Poor-laws in Ireland, he should
feel it his duty to originate a measure on that subject
WoavrartamoroN. The evidence on the late inveatigation having been presented on Wedimaday, by Lord JOHN RUSsEL! , Sir HENRY .Hattunect: asked him, what waa the opinion of Miniaters reapeeting the conduct of the military at Wolverhampton? Lord Jona: It essata., after giving some particulars of the manner in which the iaveetigation had been conducted, replied in these words— 'flit mono if the military at 1volve4hampton was marleql hy a 4. ost rommeml• able forbearance and a most con tel jtol;:tuent. I a ill hot to Mr there 1: a quantity of contradietory li-stimony in this vast aims of is hICI.•••• I that among the thirty men there may not Mom I liii (Ale l•r tWil WIIII did loll 414.1 Ii IhAt control which wit, mi.mvable in the n hole Lot!. generally ; lad that simply matter of doubt, anal as suds aleno I mention it. It may rvssildy. Irepeat. he the II,I. that one or two nom may not have aeted ii ith that complete tall 40441 wide!' 1.. desirable on all such ocermions : but w regard to the condort of Ow g,u,ral, and with regard to the conduct of Ihe cononanding officer. I thinh that those w Ito awl this /evidence will be of opinion, that being called on to p..itiatn a most ',Mail :And dilli.rult duty—a duty ti Inch the military wottIll not on any occasion •el•It. hat it hich they are called on to perform titr the support ot the civil power and the tranquillity of the country,—they thu pertiorm that duty I I al soca In manner as at • to olaMia the usult of preventing the peace of the tOl■ II fonn being seriously disturbed. :nal 44: prevent:1,g the occurrence of injury to property ILIA lire, and at the same time to exhibit the utmost forbearance towards those whom they were directed to disperse."
Sir IleNtiv IlmentNGE said-
" I am sure that the House and the public, and the plofession to which I have the honour to belong, will entertain the universal 1.e1;tig that twilling can be more satisfactory, flume mini)', and more straightforivatil than this explana- tion."
Mr. Armin:Ks thought, that before so coofident an opinion had been expressed by the noble lord with respect to the evidence which had just been laid upon the table, and before Sir Henry I fardinge com mented hint for so doing, that it would have 11CCI) more satiae4tory to the House if time had been allowed for Members to have real the evi- dence themselves.
The copies of the minutes of evidence taken by Sir F. Roe at Wolverhampton were ordered to be printed, on the motion of Lord JortN RessEm..
AIusle IN PCBLIC-110CSES. Mr. HestE introduced a bill, on Thursday, to repeal so much of the Act 2.'ith George II. as resfritined the amusement of music and dancing. Mr. Hume rose to on the Ministerial side of the Ilouse, for the firat time, amidst loud and sig- nificant cheers from the Opposition benches.
lie said his object was to promote the good-humour of the Ilouse, if pos-
sible, by introducing a little music and danciog. ) The fiat was, that only his constituents setae 'Litany,' these amusements. The act was ginally passed for three years, but it was afterwards made perpetual. When it was sent up to the Lords it extended to only twenty miles round London ; but thair Lordship added a clause to give effect to the art all over the country. The Commons, however, would not conseat to that chime; and the act was pasacil, therefore, in its present form, l'or fitly years it bad been a dead letter ; but for the last tea years informers had taken advantage of it, and bad caused gieat annoyance. The ioople in other parts of Etirope were zohneed their amusements; and he thought it would be much better tI vneteitey,2 them in this country, where the lower classes were too touch iii the habit of indulging themselves in drinking, instead of el-mating themselves rationally.
Leave was given to bring in the hill; which IV74,, a read Ilret time, and ordered to be read a second time on Wednesday to.xt.
CORrORATIoN OE DUBLIN : Mr. O'CoNNF, • , Mr. SliAw tti,l Co- lonel PERCEVAL. Mr. 0'0i:ea:rat. pre•ented a petition from Dublin on Wednesday, praying for Corporate Reform. lk sotted, in refer- ence to the subject of the petition, that The Repine of the Commissioners showed that the jadirial duties of the Mayor of Dublin were fIrsned ; that the Pt esideney of tfe Court ea' Canaeiance was firmed ; and that the soh-sheriff, farmed their erii.es by paying front 1200/. to MOW. a year, lie likewise asserted, that the Corpoiittion had denied any right to freentea, they had lately regioned more than ico 'per- sons on that ground. Mr. SHAW denied the correctness of this statement. Ile ids° took the opportunity of informing the House, in opposition to what had
been said by Mr. O'Connell on a former night, that his ( Mr.:Shaw's) father was not foreman of the Grand Jury which had ignored certain bills for bribery—Mr. Stubbs was the foreman of that Grand Jury.
Mr. O'Cosrreets. asserted positively, that Sir Robert Shaw was the foreman of the Grand Jury; as appeared by a certified copy of the names which had been sent to him.
Mr. SIIAW begged to reply as positively, that be was not.
Mr. O'Cotateraa reiterated, that he had in his peseession a certified list of the Grand Jury, at the head of which was the name of Sir Ro- bert Shaw. He also referred to pages :24, :IS, and 10, of the Report of the Commissioners on the Dublin Corporation, which verified his statement respecting the farming of certain offices.
Colonel PERCINAL remarked open a statement made by Mr. O'Con- nen on a former day, that Mr. Hudson was IRA UDC of his /Ionise' be- fore the Dublin Commission ; and produced a letter from Mr. Mac- grate, which stated that in his presence Mr. Hudson bad called him- self one of the counsel for Mr. O'Connell, Mr. Hutton being the other.
Mr. O'Coanorto. produced and read the certified list of the County Grand Jury: Moore and Johnson being the Judges, arid Sir Robert Shaw the Foreman. Ile admitted his error as to Air. Hudson ; be- cause when be left Dublin lie had no counsel but Mr. Hutton, although Mr. Hudson had afterwards volunteered to eet in that rapacity for a day mid a half. Mr. O'Connell then handed his certified list to Mr. Shaw.
Mr. SIIAW was certain that Mr. O'Connell had been miainformed by some person, who had confounded the County wit 'a the Coy Grand Jury ; and in proof, mentioned that Judges Moore and Johnson, who belonged to the Court of Common Pleas, could not have presided on the occasion. He had received a letter from his father denying most distinctly that he had been the Foreman of the Grand Jury by whom the bills for bribery were ignored.
Exertasrs or ELECTIONS. On the motion of Mr. HUME, on Thursday, his bill to diminish the expenses of elections was read a first time, aild ordered to a second reading on Friday Next.
Ihseurru ELECTIONS. The Speaker informed the house, on Thursday, that Ile had received a petition complaining of the undue election of Colonel Thompson for Hull; and last night, he mentioned the receipt of a similar petition against the sitting Members for Carlow County.
PARLIAMENTARY BUSINESS. The house of Commons, last night, on the motion of Lord JOHN RUSSELL, agreed to sit from twelve to three o'clock, on Tuesdays and Thursdays, for the despatch of business. In the House of Peers, Lord BaorGnsm propo,ed, that in order to save time, resolutions embodying the leading points in the Municipal and Irish Church, Bills, and other measures should be discussed by their Lordships. before the bills arrived from the Lower House. Lord lAdIaunr:uounNe said that he was C011riliCed DO time would be saved by this
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