8 APRIL 1837, Page 7

Cite Camaro.

A meeting of the inhabitants of Leeds was held on the 2gth ultimo, to petition both Houses of Parliament to pass the 31inisterial mea- sure fur the abolition of Church-rates. In the first instance, the meeting was held in the Courthouse; but as that place taus ately crowded, the assembly adjoin ned to the Cloth-hall, where about 7000 persons were collected. Speeches in favour of the abolition of

Church-rates were delivered by Mr. Rawson, Mr. Scales, Mr. Giles, and others. A resolution, requesting Mr. Baines to present nod s'ir

William Molesworth to support the petition to the House of Com- mons, and Lord Brougham to present that to the raw:, was adopted. Mr. Haines promised a continuance of his In st %- ertions in favour of the cause of perfect religious liberty ; and William Mulcsworth stated his reasons fin* voting in favuur of 4:1 entire abolition of Chureh.rates-

" I am opposed to the principle of an Establii.beil Church entirely. -- meow clo.ring.) I think that the government of :my country ou:ht to intofire in the religions coneei us of inilividn ; and tioit each ii I ought to be left to support that church which he hinise!lapprov, s, I .• cheering.) Holding these sentiments, gentlemen, 1 am ao adv.:met:To is ,t is called the Voluntary principle ; and in accord vice with the pr:iiih;i1o, I am opposed to Church rates. But even supposing that an Established Church is a good, which I deny, the present Establishment has more than a •unicient amount of property at its disposal ; therefore that most obnoxious tlx might be

dispensed with without producing any evil. ( Cheers.) I contend, gentlemen,

that Chinch property is national property; anti therefore that Church-rates are a part and portion of that property; and as it is a tax which falls on eve s• portion of the community, whether Dissenters or Churchmen, I consider that the Legislature would do well to abolish it altogether. ( thears.) isee, gentlemen, you have not only petitioned the House of Commons—(A lough )—

you have done wisely and well in doing so, because there are many Members

there who may be denominated Trimmers and Waverers; and when they know how large a meeting has been held, and how unauimously you have

demanded the abolition of these Church-rates, they will be foutel

steady at their posts, and they will pass this measure by a large majority. But I see you have also petitioned the House of Lords. (Laughter.) Gentlemen, I can give you no consolation with respect to them. There is a majority

against every Liberal measure ; and there are certain gentlemen there, whom my honourable blend last night very properly termed the most faithless of all trustees; and until we have got these gentlemen removed from the House of

Lords—I mean the Bishops—there is but little hope for the People. Gentle- men, a short time ago I bad the pleasure of voting for their expulsion ; we did not succeed, but I was glad to tied that the minority on that occasion was double what it was last year : this shows the growing conviction, that ulti• mately the House of Lords must be remodelled ; and so long as there are such Bishops as the one under whose spiritual care I have the honour to be placed-1 mean the Bishop of Exeter—I believe he comes from this county—( Ltrugh ter, and cries of " No, no r)-1 say, so long as we have these gentry in the House of Lords, you may be sure that every popular measure will be opposed by all that envy, hatred, malice, and revenge, can dictate." (Immense cheering.)

Thanks were voted to the chairman, and the meeting broke up.

In the evening of the same day, Sir William Moleaworth and Mr. Baines met u numerous body of the electors at the Music-hall. This was the first " sectional meeting." Mr. Baines spoke first. lie said that be had been charged with hanging back, and giving but a lukewarm support to Sir William Alulesworth: he should have exerted himself with more energy, had he not thought that it would be indelicate in him to interfere— It was for the electors to choose their own Representatives, and they alone. It was from no Ma:warmness in favour of Liberal principles—it was ?rain no hostility—for he felt none towards his honourable friend. It was from no in- disposition to give a right direction to the public mind, but it was from the delicacy of the situation iu was placed, that he had never till now felt himself Justified in recommending, as he did, the honourable baronet to their cordial and energetic support. They had thought proper to associate the name of the honourable baronet with that of himself, as their (more Representative ; and, as he believed they had never vet- found him ill any thing he undertook a eold friend, they should find him on this ocoasiiiii atom III and eartiiew one—deter- mined to do all in his power to further the cause, and determiued, if possible, to consummate their wishes Mr. Baines adverted to several of the chief sebjects tt hoar had en- gaged and were likely to occupy the attention of Parliament. Of Peerage Reform, he said— Sir William Alolesworth would doubtless ezplain to them his sentiments os that subject; but he would say let the People, in the first place, reform their own House. Let them make that House what it ought to be—the proper image of the public opinion ; and they might rest assured, when that reform had taken place, it was a matter of very trifling importance whether the other House was reformed or net.

Mr. Alderman Clapham introduced Sir William Molesworth to the electors ; and urged Liberals of all shades to unite heartily, and retuna him to the House of Commons as the colleague of Mr. Baines.

Sir William Molesworth was received with several rounds of en.. thusiastic cheers, waving of hats, and clapping of hands. He delivered a long speech ; from which we select the passages to which the meeting gave their most decided approbation. Ile was opposed to the system of pledges, and never would give one- " I know, gentlemen, that pledges are sotne:imes justified on the ground that at the present moment, on account of the long discussions of Parliament, and on account of the small number of putouts from whom you select your Repre- sentatives-1 say pledges are required and sometimes justified, on the plea that you cannot obtain a Representative in whom you can confide. But expetience, however, proves most completely that pledges ate not unfrequently broken. In the first place, short Pal lianients, by making the Representative strictly responsible to the electoral body, at fixed and st.ted periods liable to be called to account, are by far the best 11112:111,1 of inducing him to act iu strict accordance with his professed priori tics. The abolition of the property•qualification for 'Members of Parliament, (I proposed that measure in Pau liatneut tnyself. and I very nearly succeeded in carryii.g it, ) I say the abolition of the property.qualifiea- tiou, and the sweeping away of some absurd piejodices with regard to represen- tation, would so increase the number of men antoogst whom the people could' choose their Thipiesmoatt V. s. that men would never be at a loss to find, as at present, peisons tit and olde to represent them in Pa-hanteut, in whose integrity the people could rely."

Until a bill were passed limiting the duration of Parliaments to three years, he would promise-to resign hie seat on the requisition of a ma- jority of his supporters. lie considered that the elective franchise ought to be extended ; and would support 3Ir. Home's motion for Household Sulfruae. 3Ir. Hoebttek's motion on National Education. and Mr. IVakley's for the repeal of the peony' newspaper-stamp, should also have his best support. lie was decidedly in favour of the Volun- tary principle-

'''. I think that the Legislature has no right whatever to search into the truth or falsehood of religious en eds. I tidiak that the Legislature ought nut to give patronage and money fur the purpose of fiotering one telig;ous sect and refuse the n to :tnittlaw. For thes, u a no, I am hostile to an Estildished Church. N.iw, tiiongst :base persons wit° Lull ottiltions similar to rinse I have contended there is it set of persons wit, arc in I ivour of the state pa% hog the ministers of all reli4ii,us sects equally, and there are others situ are in of the stds ing none. After iso,-: on the I say. that I am fur the Veallitary pr u. i t to Ito religious sect whatever."

lint the i I•: •toi•is puss Liberal measures.

there was laa.r i • tcli slur. 11oines bail given

!dui tin tutit,tn,,, , strangled-

- I sae rims with Tory lei lihos el :•-• • i•ry measure wili teed ..

• people, and.

who will .•t ur eradicate ono on h It is true. that. ;Lt t.

and then they met. • — i•li in:ta ILI! and impairing the effi- cacy of the ineasitl, seta [:eat the llouse tif I. •itinions. It is true, if the House of Contimit:s were. by useatis of the Ballot, an extension of the Suf- frage, and Triennial Pat lianwots, made more in accordance at Al the sentiments of the people. then. peril ups, the opposition of the !louse of Lords would pro- bably be less open mid undisguised. 'hoe would insidiously endeavour to mu- tilate and mangle every popular measure sent to them, and thus, probably, occa- sion more mischief than they do now, by openly resisting your wishes. To a reform of the House of Lords we undoubtedly must come either sooner or later. ( Tryntenthms ehree ) It is but a question of time : and here, give me leave to say, that I rejoice.at the rapid progress tit' the p:opular mind on this subject. I ant glad to see the awiquateil notions of respect and reverence for the }louse of Peets d iily tot Mg away. Cheers.) The people are becoming heartily tired of the irresponsible government of the Aristocracy,"

lie would now say a few words respecting the conduct of 31inisters--..

I, far one, most sitwerely iv;sii they would pursue a bolder and more deter- mined course. I o is'', on the pit ,T ion of the IhalMt, the Bite-paving clauses, on the abolition of ploperty qualifications for Members of Path:intent, and ou other questions of great importance, I wish, instead of havieg acted in con- cert with the Tunics, they had united with their Libtr.tl fliends, without the disinterested support of w hout thty could not hold office for one single hour longer. Nevertbelest., as long as their measures are one iota better than that of the Tories, I shall feel it iiiy they to support them. r. Cheers.) As long, I say, as their measures contain any, the slightest application of popular prin- ciples, I shall vote for those measures, iu oppositiou to tin the language of the House of Lords) 'fury amendments ; at the Sallie time attempting amid endea- vouring, conjointly w ith any friends. to perfect those measures, in aceot dance with Liberal principles, to press on the consideration of the House of Commons and of the public those tint stions which I deem of the utmost importance to the progress of the popular party, as well as to the good government of this great and powerful nation."

Sir William was about to conclude his speech. when he was re- minded by the meeting that he had said nothing about Canada ; and he into it statement of the case of Lower Canada. condemning in strong language the conduct of Ministers towards that colony. lie said- " I cannot repeat to you all the grievances of which the majority of the people of Canada complained, and for which their Representatives were nimbi* to obtain redress : at last, wearied out of all patience, they adopted a pet featly constitutional mode, and refused to grant the supplies. They tensed to grant public money till the complaints of the people were listened to. :Now, what do our Liberal Government propose to do? They propose to pass a law to take the money of the Canadian people without the consent of the House of England without the unseat of the House of Commons. Suppose at some future _period, io consequence of the Howie of Lords refusing to assent to the Irish Municipal Bill, to the abolition of Church-rates, and to every other liberal measure, the House of Commons were to refuse to grant supplies. If tie Tories were to propos. to take those supplies without the consent of the House of Commons, they would act precisely in the same manner towards England u the Ministers propose to act towards Canada. The only difference is. that the owe is • violation of the Constitution of Canada, the other would be a violation of the Constitution of England. In former times, a King attempted to set in this manner towards the people of thie country, but they punished him for it. The Tories attempted to use • similar plan to the Caked States of America : they eel us at defiance, and shook off oar yoke. A great portion of the Canadians are Frenchmen ; the Ministers think they won't set as Englishmen have done. Every one knows how, in similar circumstances, men like you would act ; that if Lower Canada were in. iabited by your brothers, cousins, and relations, they would not permit their looney to be taken without their consent—they would fight for it first. (Ira- Mane cheering.) I cannot take upon myself to say Low the Canadians will act; I can only say how Englishmen have acted, haw Englishmen would act. I can only say how the Canadians ought to act. ( Vehement cheering.) This is a gross art of grievous tyranny, which would ultimately cause a separation of the two countries. I trust Alinisters will be induced to listen to the earnest prayers and entreaties of their friends, and be persuaded to abstain from an act worthy of the Tories alone, and which alone would give-pleasure to the Tories, and if passed would produce discord among the Liberal party." (Long- continued and vehement eheering.)

Abram Worenop of Wortley, a workman in the body of the meeting, *en began to catechize Sir William on the Poor-law.

Abram Woranop—" What is Sir William Alolesworth's opinion respecting sot-door relief ? "

Sir William Afolesworth—" I am opposed to it generally : it is one of the great principles of the new Poor-law Bill, and I told you I supported the prin. triples of the Poor-law Bill ; but the great principle of that bill was refusing re- • lief to able paupers." Mr. Worsnop—" For instance, I am a weaver, and have been so for several years; I have a large family, and a well furnished house ; now if I fill out of work (a cnse of frequent occurrence in the manufacturing districts), would you think it right that I should have my goods and chattels sold up, and be taken into the workhouse, or have temporary relief afforiLd me until I could get em- ployment again ?" Sir William Molesworth—" I see the particular hardship of your case ; it is certainly a hard case, and I trust you will not think me unfeeling when I say, that laws cannot be made for particular cases—(" Hear, hear ! ")—we must look to the general tendencies of human nature, and as human laws must always be made in accordance with human affairs, it naturally follows that in every law under which you could hardly conceive any cases of cruelty could some, yet there are always some exceptional caw, which the wisdom and power of hums. laws cannot provide against." (Loud cheers. ) Mr. Worsnop—" I should say, in reply to the honourable baronet, that this is a case of very common occurrence in the manufacturing districts, for labouters to be thrown out of employment ; and would you break up their houses for this temporary want of employment? (" Hear, hear ! ") If you did not du this, in a few weeks they might get employment, whetea., it they were taken into the workhouse, they would be confined there and prevented from doing so."

Sir William Alolesworth—" I can only return the answer I live already given ; I think if you were to examine the whole cases throughout the country,

you would find it was an exceptional one. One great evil of the old poor laws

arose from the giving of out door relisf ; and the reason why it is not given in these cases is, because they don't know where to fix thediscretionary power : if it were possible properly to place the discretionary power, or if you could have an all-wise being to tell you where you were to bestow charity and where you were not, such cases would nut an -e; but in all enactments flamed by human ingenuity, it is impossible so to frame them without inflictitig individual hard- ship, misery, or sorrow." Mr. Worstiop—" You have already expressed what your opinions are with respect to local districts, and you told us that the inhabitants in every- town and in every district were most interested in their own affairs ; Would you not think, 1114 with respect to the new Poor-law Bill, those rah o live ia those parts are most likely to be acquainted with the particular circum- stance.' of the case of each femily, and that they are best calculated to exercise the discretion as to, affulding out-door relief, rather than there should be one general system for the whole country ?" (" Hear, hear ! ") Sir W. 51oletworth—" You reason admirably. (Laughter.) I said that the inhabitants of each district, town, or city, shou!cl be inn usttil with the 'management of their ()an civil concerti.. Now, with regard to the Poor-laws, I consider that they concern them much ; they have an immense bearing oil the inhabitants of the whole community, therefore a considerable portion al the administration of them should be placed in the bands of the local communities ; but the community have a right to see that no system be iutroduced into one district which is injurious in another."

Mr. Baines begged to be allowed to give a little explanation-

$‘ There is nothing in the regulation* of the new Poor-law Act which pre- vents the giving of out-door relief; there is a power placed in the Go Italians, and in many casts they exercise that power in extreme casts. This is rather a regulation arising out of the Poor-law Act ; and I hope in many of these cases they wouid not see it necessary to interfere and break up the homes of the labourer, and sell his goods and chattels, as the very judicious elector has now explained. There seems to be a material difference, hay, between the ntlininis- Vatien of the law in manufacturing and in agricultural districts; and it will be impossible in many cases strictly to administer the law by refusing out door relief. There are cases so hich happen not unfrequeutly in the manufacturing where, owing to failures in trade, there are hundreds of families thrown out of employment together; and it can never be supposed that they are to be taken into the workhouse, or their chattels sold, and their families huddled up in the poor I owe, and they afterwards have to begin the world afresh it is for this season, ib refore, that this discretion is placed in the Guardians of the poor to give taut-door relief. Gentlemen, I thought it was necessary, in explanation of my holism:dile friend's views, that you should not think that this was an irre. vocable rule, which is only an exception to the general rule, and this exception the administrators have the power at any time to remove." ( Cheers. ) Mr. Worenop—" Mr. Baines has certainly thrown some light upon the sub- ject; which gives me sonic satisfaction." ( Cheers.)

The meeting then resolved unanimously to support Mr. Baines and Sir William Slolesevorth.

Another (the second sectional) meeting was held on the Wednesday following, in the Music-hall, when sin ilar resolutions were passed with equal unanimity. On tl a. occasion, Mr. Henry Stansfield, a Whig ; who in the first instin •e was opposed to Sir William Moles- worth, proposed the honourable baronet to the mectii g. Mr. Henry Mar-hull seconded the nomination of Sir William, and declared his entire concurrence in his political opinions.

[In the Morning Chronicle and Constitutional of Monday, Sir William Alolesworth corrected an error in the report given by the former paper of his speech at the Leeds dinner. He did not say, without qualification, that Ministers had acted up to their pees fessions, but that, "with regard to the questions chiefly referred to by Mr. Baines, (the Irish Municipal Bill, and Church-rates,) Ministers on the whole had acted tip to their professions ;" and in reference to the charge. founded on this inaccurate report, that he had changed his opinion's, Sir William said—" No such change has taken place," we find that the report of Sir William's speech given in another paper of the same date as the Chronicle's exaggerated version, corroborates his letter ; and it is amply borne out by the whole of his conduct and con. versation at Leeds.] Neither of the honourable gentlemen to whom the requisition has been presented has yet declared his acceptance of it. Time is taken by Sir W. Molesworth for • rigid scrutiny of the requisition itself, and of the register of voters; and, should the result be satisfactory, as we are persuaded it will, he will declare his acceptance of the call made upon him.—Leeds Mercury.