11 AUGUST 1855, Page 2

Btiutitoanb rortaingi in Varlinintut.


Horse OP LORDS. Monday, August 6. Sale of Beer Bill read a second time- Metropolis Local Management Bill read a third time and passed-Excise-Duties Bill read a third time and passed-Tuikish Loan Bill reported-Ordnance Board Bill read a first time.

Tuesday, August 7. Limited Liability Bill read a second time-Sale of Beer Bill committed-Customs Tariff Acts Amendment and Consolidation Bill read a third time and passed-Customs Laws Consolidation Bill read a third time and passed- Turkiiih Loin Bill read a third time and passed-Ordnance Board Bill read a third time and passed-Lunatic Asylums (Ireland) Advances Bill read a second time- Appropriation Bill read a first time. Thursday. August 9. Public-houses (Ireland) Bill read a second time-Nuisances Removal and Diseases Prevention Acts Consolidation Bill read a third time and rstied-Public Health Act (1854) Continuance Bill read a second time-Diseases revention Bill read a second time-Limited Liability Bill committed--Appropria- on Bill read a second time-Exchequer BIlls (7,000,0001.) Bill read a second time. Friday. Aural 10. Public Health (No. 2) Bill read a second time-Lunatic Asy- lums (Ireland) Advances Bill read a third time aud'pansed-Appropriation Bill coin- mitted-Pubhc.houses (Ireland) Bill committed-Public Health Act (1854) Con- tinuance Bill committed-Exchequer Bills (7,000,00014 Bill committed-Limited Litr Bill repotted. House' OP Ccontoxs. Sodlirdiy.August 4. Appropriation Bill read a second time-Exchequer Bills (7,000,000!.) Bill read a second time-Ordnance Board Bill read a third time and passed-Public Health Act (1854) Continuance and Amend- ment Bill read a- third time 'and passed-Dwellings for Labouring Classes Bill read a third time and passed. Monday. August 6. Lunatic Asylums (Ireland) Advances Bill read a third time and passed-Diseases Prevention Bill read a third time and passed-Criminal Jus- tice Bill read a third time-Charitable Trusts Bill in Committee-Crime and Out- rage (Ireland) Continuance Bill in Committee. Tuesday, August 7. Prospects of the war; Lord John Russell's Speech-Ap- propriation Bill passed-Militia Pay Bill read a third time and passed-Charitable Trusts Bill committed-Hospitals in the East; Mr. Stafford's Motion-Indian Ac- counts ; Mr. Vernon Smith'A Statement. Wednesday, August 8. Burials Bill read a third time and passed-Criminal Justice Bill passed-Crime and Outrage (Ireland) Bill committed-East India Come pony's Accounts; Report received-Accidents on ; Lord Stanley of Alder- ley's Bill withdrawn. Thursday, August 9. New Writs- for Kidderminster, Kilmarnock, and Hertford- Charitable 'Trusts- Bill read a third time and passed-Leases and Sales of Settled Estates Bill withdraseri-Despatch of Business, Court of Chancery. Bill in Com- mittee-Metropolis Local Management Bill ; Lords Amendments agreed to-Naval Promotion; Captain Scobell's Motion-" Count out." Friday. August 10. Italian Legion; Mr. Bowyer's Motion-Despatch of Busi- ness, Court- of Chancery. Bill read a third time and passed-Nuisances Removal Bill;' Lords' Amendmenti agreed tb-Ordnance Baird HMI- Lords' Amendment agreed to-'.-Sale of Beer Bill-; Lords' Amendments agreed to.


The Lords. The! COMM0269:- . Hour of Hour of Mont Of Hour ot

Meeting. Adjournment. Meeting. Adjournment.

Monday Oh . • . . ah Om Saturday.... . ... : ..... .... Noon .... lb Om

Monday lh • 415 Om

Tuesday bh 9h 6m Bh .(555) 31, 15m

TueedaY Noon.... 41, Om

Wednesday No sitting. MI .(m) 21, 15m

Thursday Oh .(m) lh Om Wedneglar Noon . ah 45m Thursday Noon .... 40 Cm Friday 512 .... 912 20m 61. .... 100 46m

Friday 31h ....• 8h 45m Sittings this Week, 4; Time. 19h 23m Sittings this Week, 9 Time, 451. lam this Session. 107; - 289h 55m - this Session, 166 98912 3m


On the third reading of _Ole Appropriation Bill, Lord Join( Ressau, called the attention of the House to the prospects before us. He said he neither wished to diminish nor to aggravate the responsibility of the Go- vernment, but there never was a Government which had a more respon- sible task before them. More than 49,000,000/. have been voted for the expenses of the war ; the budget amounts to upwards of 90,000,0004 ; and, Whether we consider the amount of this sum or the expenditure of former wars, there is enough in these sums and in our prospects to induce the most serious reflections. He then dealt With three qaestions—the- carrying on of the war, the preparations for a future campaign, and fu- ture negotiations. On the first, he remarked that there is no reason to doubt the efficiency of the navy ; but as our enemy will not meet us in the open sea, we cannot expect to end the war by great naval victories. Admiral Dundee may perform feats in the Baltic which Sir Charles Na- pier could not accomplish ; but we cannot be sanguine on the subject, as the season unfavourable to operations is close at hand. Of our prospects in the Black Sea he would say nothing, but he saw danger on the Asiatic, frontier of Turkey, He had hoped that the Foreign Enlistment Bill would have enabled us to send 20,000 or 30,000 men to Asia, but that hope, in consequence of the conduct of the Opposition, had been disappointed' ; and we have no prospect of sending such' a force either to Asia or the Crimea in time for the present campaign. There is therefore no chance of gaining a decided success on the Asiatic frontier. No doubt, however large the force now collecting in the Crimea, it will be met by a large Russian army, augmented by the troops set free in Poland owing to the policy of Austria. These are matters deserving great reflection. The prospect before us is such as not indeed to induce the House to Unlit the powers it has granted, but to require, When Parliament shall meet again, an inquiry into the use made of the means so liberally placed at the disposal of the Government. Of the preparations for the next campaign he would say nothing—perhaps too niuch publicity has already been given to plans of operation. In dealing with the prospect of negotiations for peace, Lord John began by stating that he regretted that the whole of the despatches respecting his proceed- ingest Vienna could not be produced with advantage to the public ser- vice, because they would enable the public to judge of his conduct; and he went on to point out that serious questions arise for the future, as the Turkish Ambassador was perfectly satisfied with the terms proposed by the Austrian Government. He reMarked that be had never heard whe- ther the Turkish Goveniment had arrived at decisions similar to those of England and France; but if they had trot—if the War is henceforth to be carried on, not for the security of Trirket, but for the maintenance of the military and naval reputation of France and England—then we can no longer have Turkish loans or guarantees, bat we must give such large, plain, and downright subsidies to Turkey, as will induce her to fight with us, should she conceive, at any future period, that sufficient terms of peace have been' proposed. He hoped Government would not consent to terms they did- not think "honourable and safe"—but those are, very general terms; he should pay the utnioat consideration to the opinion of the Emperor of the French on the subjectbut he hoped that When such terms are *Posed the Governinent will not continue the war. Lord John then adverted to the state orItalS.. Pointing to the Sardinian alliance, he described the bold and generous tpuit which has animated the Sardinian Government in behalf of the general balance of power in Europe, and said that it is not to be supposed that they do not expect to obtain the moral support of this country to the cause they have most at heart—that a better system should prevail in Italy. The Government of Piedmont have done what it seemed very difficult for any state of Southern Europe to ac- complish—establish a free representative monarchy, without violating any rights, without a bloody revolution. They wish that, at least, such oppressions as now prevail in Italy should receive some check, and be no lqnger conse- crated, as it were, by the name of "government." In the Papal States,. outrage and oppression, under cover of legitimate government, prevail in the chief towns, and organized brigandage outside those towns, making the roads unsafe. In the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies, some of the beet men in Eu- rope are suffering in Neapolitan dungeons, their sufferings not diminished since Mr. Gladstone brought them to light. In Tuscany, the religious toleration which Leopold established a century ago is exchanged for a tor- menting and inquisitorial religious persecution which is a disgrace to that country. And what aggravates the whole matter is that "these oppressions and persecutions are taking place, not because there is domestic misgovern- ment, not solely because the people themselves are unable to check those evils and to seek a remedy for those difficulties, but because one part of the principal states of Italy—the States of the Church—is occupied by an Austrian army, while Rome, the capital of the country itself, is occu- pied by the troops of the Emperor of the French." It has always been said that the Pope should be master in. Rome, and possess an independent territory, and that was the argument used by M. de Narbonne against Na- poleon; but at the present moment the Pope must be dependent upon one or both of the foreign states whose forces occupy his territory. And this oc- cupation is different from those military occupations which have taken place since 1815,—occupations which followed great convulsion, and ceased as soon as domestic authority resumed its sway. In the present instance the Roman territory has been occupied for five years, and, there is no symptom whatever that the Papal authority is gaining root. "On the contrary, every man who is acquainted with those States will tell you and the statement cannot be controverted, that if the French and Austrian troops were with- drawn, the authority of the Pope would be denied, and some sort of govern- ment would be established more consistent with the principles of justice, one which would afford some liberty of opinion, and which would not employ the odious means of exercising its control which have hitherto been em- ployed by the Ecclesiastical Government. If this be true, what prospect is there; under the present system that either the Emperor of Austria or the Emperor of the French will consider himself able to withdraw his troops from Italy? If, however, this occupation continue, it will afford not only a logical contradiction to the theory that the Pope in order to be free must possess due authority, and must have an independent territory, but it will also be likely to cause's disturbance of the balance of power in Europe. It is not possible that England can be carrying on a war at the enormous ex- pense which I have mentioned, because Russia has occupied part of the tern- tory of her neighbour, and yet allow the occupation of the territories of the Pope by foreign troops. Is this disturbance of the balance of power of Europe one to which the influence of the British Government should be ex- ercised in order to put an end? What is to be the issue of this occupation? Is it not possible that the English Government, in concert with the Govern- ment of France, may succeed in devising some system of' government for those Roman States consistent with, the interests of the people and with the rules of justice? If this war had, been terminated, I believe that one of the first acts of the King of Sardinia would have been to ask his allies to turn their attention to this subject. I cannot doubt that he' as an Italian prince reigning over a free people, would have called upon the Governments of France and Great Britain to assist him with all their influence, and to ask for the assistance of Austria in the teak of devising some durable system of government for the Roman States, thereby enabling France and Austria to withdraw their troops. Such, I am sure, would have been the course adopted by that Monarch." He called the attention of Lord Palmerston to this subject, because he was sure that Lord Palmerston would, not only be willing but glad to embrace any opportunity for improving the condition of Italy. None there anything difficult in the, task, as he could not but think that the Emperor of the French would be happy to consult with us as to the beet mode of executing it, preparatory tothe withdrawal of his forces from the Italian territory. He hoped the voice of England Would-be roused in order to improve the system of government in Italy, not by introducing the spirit of Mazeini, but by substituting a rational and temperate spirit, and those laws which, founded. on the real principles of justice, possess eternal power. Mr. WILED/sox said the people of England sympathize with the Italians, Poles, and Hungarians; but this is not a time to call upon the Government for active interferenoe. Referring to last week's proceedings, he regretted that the House should separate without coming to a distinct vote in favour of the continuance of, the war. There is no middle term. France and England must have—what Mr. Gladstone thinks it wicked to desire—success; and they must succeed together or fail together. The contest ought not to be terminated without showing that the peace a Europe cannot be broken with impunity.

Lord Paialeasion said.he did net rise to oomplain that his noble friend should have called the attention of the House to matters of the deepest, importance, and in regard to which he himself, when in, office,, took a, leading and prominent part: It is natural that these great questions should occupy his mind now, and also that he should not only state his own views but call on the Government to state theirs. Government' are deeply sensible of the gravity of the responsibility that weighs upon them. No man could, have been a party to entering into this great contest without satisfying his mind that the cause was just, the motives sufficient, and. that the sacrifices demanded were such as a. statesman could be called, upon to endure. There must, indeed, be grave reasons which could induce a man who had been a party with her Majesty's Government to that line of policy, who had assisted in conducting the war, who had, after full and, perhaps, unex- ampled deliberation, agreed to enter upon the war, who, having concurred after that full and mature deliberation in the commencement of the war, had also joined in calling upon the country for great sacrifices in order to con- tinue it, and who had; up to a very recent period, assented to all the mea- sures proposed for its continuance—I say there must, indeed, be grave rea- sons which could induce a man who had been so far a party to the measures of the Government utterly to change his opinion, to declare this war unne- cessary, unjust, and impolitic ; to set before the country all the imaginary disasters with which his fancy could supply him ; and to magnify and ex- aggerate the force of the enemy and the difficulties of our own position., (Loud cheers.) Sir, I am not such a man as that. My right honourable friends my colleagues in the Government are not men of that stamp.; and,

i therefore, n answer to my noble friend,—to whom nothing that I have just said in the slightest degree applies,—I have to state that her Majesty's Go- vernment, fully conscious of the great importance of this contest, fully con- scious of the immense exertions which may be necessary to bring it to a suc- cessful termination, are prepared to take upon themselves the responsibility which belongs to their position, and will not be afraid, when Parliament meets again, to render an account of the manner in which that responsibility has been discharged." He declined to follow Lord John either in dilating on the operations of war or the terms of peace. To announce our intentions is to lay the ground for our defeat. But one point called for remark. Lord John seemed to entertain the opinion that the Turkish Government had no ob- jection to the terms of Austria. That may have been the opinion of the Turkish Minister at Vienna but Lord Palmerston has no reason to be- lieve or suppose that the Turkish Government differed in opinion from the Governments of France and England as to the necessity of not ac- cepting the Austrian proposals. No doubt, the opinions of the Turkish Government on the conditions consistent with its future security ought to have considerable weight with the Governments of England and Prance; but the war was undertaken, not only for the protection of Turkey, but beyond the protection of Turkey lies the still greater question of the grasping ambition of Russia, which aims at the moral and physical sub- jugation of the continent of Europe, and the extinction of those principles of political and commercial liberty upon which the independent exist- ence of the kingdoms of Europe must mainly depend. There is, how- ever, no reason to suppose that any difference is likely to occur between the Western Powers and the Turkish Government. There is also such an entire unity between the Governments of France and England, that on this great question they form but one Cabinet.

With regard to the enlistment of foreign troops, they are now raised with greater rapidity than hitherto, and before autumn seta in it is likely that considerable reinforcements will be sent to the army in the East.

Having disposed of these questions, Lord Palmerston turned to the other topic of Lord John's speech,—the state of Italy. That is a very painful topic,, with, however, one bnght feature in it—the admirable conduct of the King and people of Piedmont. He warmly, eulogized that conduct, and admitted that it is natural "such a people and such a Monarch" should view with painful anxiety the deplorable condition of other parts of Italy. In Naples,. Russian influence reigns supreme ; and the Government has shown its hos- tility to England and France by prohibiting the exportation of articles their neutrality does not warrant, and there have been recently acts of cruelty and oppression committed by that Government which really do not belong to our, age. " On the other hand, the occupation of the Roman States hy French and Austrian troops increases the ability of that Government to commit acts which are not in accordance with the feelings of the people of this country; but the House will, I am sure, perceive that these arc topics of great diffi- culty and delicacy. There cannot at the present moment be anything less desirable for the interests of this country than that discussions should.; take place in this House, or that any proceedings should be adopted' by her Majesty's Government, which would tend to cast even a shade of coldness over the relations existing between this country and France on the one hand, or Austria on the other." The French troops have behaved in a most exemplary manner. The Austrian occupation of Tuscany has ceased ; and there is no foundation for the report that the actual num- ber of Austrian troops in Italy has been increased. "Any notion which may prevail that Austria is changing her policy with regard to the Allies, and is preparing for a course of action in Italy incompatible with her rela- tions with England and France, is utterly unfounded. Whether Austria, at a future time, prompted by regard for her own interests, may or may not find heraelf in a condition to take the field in conjunction with England'and France, of one thing I am perfectly satisfied—that we shall not see Austria. take the field against England and France, and in concert with Russia."

It is very painful to see a great people, endowed by nature with the

highest qualities, debarred by the accidental circumstances of their political position from pursuing a career that would enoble them in the estimation of the world, It must therefore be the object of every British statesman not only to alleviate the pressure which weighs upon them, but to open to them a nobler career. But it is diffi- cult to alter a state of things that has existed many years. In 1832 the Five Powers suggested certain administrative changes, but they were not adopted; and even the Council of Finance, subsequently re- commended, and partially carried out, remained powerless. If the with- drawal of the troops would lead to the calm and deliberate formation of a government more congenial to the feelings of the people, he would' say, let the troops be withdrawn. Unless the way were carefully prepared, the change would lead to disturbances all would desire to avoid. But the British Government have not withdrawn their attention from the subject, neither, he thought, had the French Government; and they would anxiously avail themselves of any opportunity that might present itself. Mr. HENLEY regretted that the matter had been brought forward at all, for it could lead to no good; and somewhat severely criticized the speech and conduct of Lord John Russell. The bill was read a third4 time and .passed,. THE TURKISH LOAN Bu.

On the motion for going into Committee on this bill, Lord Sr. LEONA.RDS took occasion to' make some remarks on the Vienna Con- ferences, the copduct ef Russia, and the character of the loan conventions.. He briefly described the course of the negotiations, to show that Russia was.not sincere in carrying them on, except for the purpose of effecting her own objects, and had no intention to abide by anything she might admit in the disouasion. He expressed regret that Lord John Russell should have accepted the Austrian proposal, and said that Government was right in. rejecting it.

As regarded the general question, he had himself arrived at the most sails-

factory conclusion that the war was just and necessary, and that they were bound to prosecute it to a successful issue. And he could not understand any man who had concurred in entering upon the war wishing to put an end to it at a moment like the present, when the Russian fleet could not show a single flag in the Baltic or the Black Sea, when successes had been achieved' in the Sea of Azoff, which might be repeated in other quarters, and when the, gallantry of our own countrymen and of our Allies in the attack of Sebasto- pol was more conspicuous than the gallantry of the Russians who defended, it—gallant as unquestionably that defence had been.

With regard to the bill before the House, he looked upon it as no

longer a guarantee but a loan. It is impolitic to take the Egyptian tri- bute and the customs of Smyrna as a special pledge; for if the interest were not paid, and we insisted on payment, were we to take the customs of Smyrna ? and would not the Pasha of Egypt ask why we demand what belongs to the Sultan ? Turkey cannot answer the obligations of the convention in time to come, and these pledges would be better got rid of.

As there appeared to be some doubt as to the meaning of the French words "solidaire" and " solidairement," he had referred to a dictionary compiled by Richelet, an avocet, a hundred and fifty years ago, where he found the words thus translated-

"Solidaire.-Terme de pratique. Ii se dit des obligations quo passent plusieurs personnee ensemble, lorsque elzaeune premier de payer la somme totals. Ta solidum. " Solidairement—Terme de pratique. "rune maniere solidaire. L'un pour rautre. In universuns. In solidum: But by the translation of the convention the obligation had been niadesa joint obligation, and not a joint and several obligation. Thus in llin article of the convention her Majesty bound herself "jointly with the. peror of the French and severally," but the words "with the Emperet of the French" were not repeated after "severally." So that, in guage, the Queen gave a guarantee for the whole loan jointly with p,eror of the French, and severally by herself, while the Enver of the French only bound himself jointly with the Queen. The words, tight- to have been that the Queen bound herself jointly and severally with ths.itui-: peter of the French, and that the Emperor of the French bound 'himself, jointly and severally with the Queen. [The Lord CHA-NCELLOR remarked. that the convention could not now be altered.] What he compleine4; of was, that it was a bad translation. Let one of the young gentlemen of thq Foreign Office translate it properly, and all would be right.

in Ian- He thought it would have been better not to have entered into the con- vention with France for the purpose of making good the payments in case Turkey failed. We have agreed to make good the payment in the -first instance ; and if it is disagreeable to pay a guaranteed debt, it is still more disagreeable to repay the half of a debt already paid by a co- surety.

The Earl of CLARENDON said that no apology was needed for the ad- dress just delivered to the House, although it would have been more cor- rectly delivered on the second reading. Lord St. Leonardo had said that the delay of eighteen days during the proceedings on the third point had produced a prejudicial effect upon the operations before Sebastopol.

That was not so. "The object of those Conferences was to lead to peace, but foreseeing that they might have some effect upon—that they might to a certain extent paralyze—the exertions of our armies, the English and French Governments stated to Lord Raglan and General Canrobert that the Con- ferences were to be held at the especial invitation of Austria, because they thought it was their duty to omit no chance of arriving at a peaceful solu- tion, but that they had no reliance that the negotiations would end in peace, and they urged both the Generals not only not to relax, but to increase their efforts, because they believed nothing would more tend to a successful and peaceful solution than military successes."

The conduct of Lord John Russell has been misrepresented. "He certainly went to Vienna, and his conduct throughout the negotiations proved that he was heartily desirous of a safe and honourable peace. As he was leaving Vienna these propositions were made to him, and it would have been unjust on his part if he had refused to bring them under the notice of her Majesty's Government. He thought that her Majesty's Government ought to have the opportunity of fairly considering something that was different from what they had themselves proposed, and from what he had been instructed to propose.'

With regard to the terms and objects of the convention, Lord Clarendon said it seemed about as plain and straightforward an arrangement as could be well devised.

"True, it was considered at the Foreign Office that the use of the word solidairement ' was nothing more than a repetition of the meaning of ' con- jointement'—the two phrases being thought equivalent to our 'jointly and conjointly' but it should be remembered that it is neither the convention nor this bill, but the bond entered into, that will give the creditor his claim; and that the same instrument will define the extent of the responsibility of the debtor and the remedy against him."

The Lord CHANCELLOR said that whether the two nations engage them- selves jointly, or jointly and severally, is a matter absolutely unim- portant.

No suit can really take place against nations jointly or severally; and the rights of two nations depend entirely on the engagement between them. In the case of a default the bondholder eau only apply to one of the two Go- vernments, and, after liquidating his claim, that Government has a right to Fundy to the other for a moiety of the money. The Bill passed through Committee, and was reported to the House.


-The House having resolved itself into a Committee of the whole, on the subject of the Indian accounts, on Tuesday, Mr. VERNON SNIITII made the annual statement on the finance of India. He explained the difficulty in bringing up the accounts in respect of date ; this year they were unable to introduce them later than 1852-'3, with an estimate of the increase and decrease for 1854-'5; but next year they would be produced up to April of the present year—later than that would be impossible. Mr. Bright desired to bring them up to October ; but if October were to be the data, it would be necessary to close the accounts six months earlier than Go- vernment proposed to do, as they could not be got in earlier from all the Presidencies. A summary of the accounts showed that the total revenues from the several Presidencies were 20,273,563?.; surplus over the local charges, 5,153,7161.; charges on the Indian debt, and charges defrayed in England, reduced that surplus to 424,457/. The ordinary revenue of India as estimated for the year 1854-'5 shows a decrease under several heads, land-revenue, customs, opium, Bze.; and an increase under several heads, the net decrease not being very considerable. Thep is, however, an increase of expenditure amounting to 2,868,5307., which, coupled with the decrease of revenue, leaves a deficiency for 1854-'5 as compared with 1852-'3 of 3,094,775/. There is, however, no ground for despondency. The chief deficiency occurs in opium-448,8401.—which showed a large increase in 1853,—nearly 700,0001.; and there is every reason to expect that the opium revenue will rise again when the war in China shall cease.

Various improvements have been suggested to extend free trade in India, but there is no such lever as the Income-tax was in this country. Other measures have been suggested to aid in the extension of free trade, such as an increase of tax upon salt, or reduction of the army—sugges- tions which prove how insuperable is the difficulty at present. Mr. Ver- non Smith also read long extracts from a report to show the extension of first-class works in main canal lines and in railways, but the detailed figures are not of great interest ; only a comparatively small portion of the lines having been yet executed, although they are in a forward state. He also reported that a plan for completing the whole of the telegraphic communication throughout the Company's dominions is far advanced. A large increase of revenue is expected from the cultivation of waste lands; an opinion confirmed by the report of Mr. Maltby, and Lord Harris has taken up the same idea.

In the course of his speech Mr. Vernon Smith entered into long ex- planations to Show that the conversion of the Five per Cent Debt has effected a reduction of interest chargeable upon the Indian revenues of 250,0001. per annum. The public works alone since contracted for will entail upon the Indian revenue little more than half the outlay which was saved by previous operations and the conversion of the Five per Cent Debt has effected an absolute relief, whatever may have been the liabilities in- curred through the failure of public works, or the raising of the Public Works Loan.

This statement wIts followed by a debate, in which Mr. BRIGHT took the lead. His speech consisted principally of a criticism on the finance and administration of India. He condemned the Public Works Loan as being a deception, a raising of money for the purpose of Government under a false name at five per cent, after the five per cent had been converted into four per cent. He condemned the Indian Government in finance matters ; and referred to the evidence of torture, which had been brought out by the returns which Mr. Denby Seymour had obtained, after that gentleman had been treated with contempt by Sir James Hogg and others for having asserted the existence of the practice. Sir JAMES LIOGG delivered a reply, but he confessed that he could not follow Mr. Bright in the figures of which that gentleman had made himself the master; and he 'admitted that he had not been aware that the practice of torture ex- isted. This subject of torture was the chief point in the remainder of the discussion. From the Commissioners' Report Mr. J. G. Pnu.ramoan picked out a passage describing some of the most horrible forms of torture used by the police—searing with hot irons ; placing insects or pepper into the eyes, or in places yet snore delicately sensitive. In one case an old man was tied up in the sun until he died of apoplexy, because he was supposed to be deficient in the payment of an account to Government to the amount of fourpence! The' other speakers were Mr. OTWAY' Mr. HENLEY, Sir Cnaines WOOD Mr. WHITESIDE—who complained that Irishmen are excluded from judicial offices in India—Mr. Malcolm, and Mr. DARBY SEYMOUR.

The Committee agreed to the formal resolutions passing the accounts of the East India Company ; and also to two resolutions moved by Mr. BRIGHT, to the effect that the accounts should in future be made up to the 30th April of the year preceding that on which the statement of the President of the Board of Control is made ; and that the statement itself should be made "at such a period of the session as shall permit its recei- ving that attention its importance demands."

Lamers Lumr.rrr.

In a brief speech, recounting the proceedings of the House of Com- mons in relation to the Limited Liability Bill, as furnishing grounds for its immediate consideration, Lord STANLEY of Alderley moved that the standing order should be suspended. This led to a long debate. Lord REDESDALE opposed what he called the rescinding of the order ; arguing that no case of urgency had been made out ; as the resolution on which the bill is founded was passed last session, as the bill had been repeatedly postponed in the other House, and as the Partnership Bill had been dropped altogether. It would be far better that there should be some delay, than that an imperfect mea- sure should be passed. Lord Lyrremote, backing up Lord Redesdale, said that it was an intolerant proceeding and a mockery to call upon the House to read such a bill a second time when there were hardly two days in which to consider the details.

Earl GRANVILLE said it would be easy to show that the bill had been delayed in consequence of the line taken by the Opposition: he would not take that course, but would urge the House to suspend the resolution on the ground of the importance of the bill before them. If so strong an objection was felt to the bill on the other side, why did not the Conserva- tive leader imitate Earl Grey, who had come between 200 and 300 miles to oppose the measure ? There were or had been about sixty Peers pre- sent that evening; in fact, there had not been so large an attendance more than three or four times during the session. There is also plenty of time to consider the bill ; and, if the House liked, although unusual, they could take two or three days to go through the clauses, for the Government would offer no objection.

Earl Gray not only opposed the suspension of the standing order, but argued against the bill, saying that it was as heedless a piece of legis- lation as ever passed through Parliament, introducing a new principle into commercial legislation which the highest authorities, both in law and commerce, view with distrust and apprehension. Even if it were sound in principle, that would be no justification for suspending the order ; and if it were read a second time he should certainly move that it be referred to a Select Committee. The only consequence of adhering to the order would be that the bill would be delayed a few months ; whereas if theorder were suspended, a blow would be struck at the character, position, and usefulness of the House, by this hasty and offhand legislation.

The Marquis of CrArenicaana and the Lord CHANCELLOR supported the motion and the bill ; and Lord ST. LEONARDS and Lord MONTEAGLE op- posed both. Lord St. Leonards said he should vote against suspending the resolution, and against the second reading ; and support Lord Grey's motion to refer the bill to a Select Committee—he should do this, not be- cause he disapproved of the principle of the bill, but because he disap- proved of the conduct of the Government in pressing the measure for- ward when so many Peers had left town.

On a division the House agreed to suspend the order by 38 to 14; and after a brief discussion the bill was read a second time.

The opposition was vigorously kept up on Thursday. It began at the opening of the sitting by the presentation of a petition against the bill from the Merchants' Mouse of Glasgow, by Lord REDFSDALE ; WhO re- newed his appeal that the bill should be dropped. An irregular discus- sion followed; and when the order of the day for going into Committee came on, Lord ST. LEONARDS opposed it, professing no desire to throw the bill over for the session, but simply a wish to consider it in a Select Committee, which might be accomplished in three or four hours. Lord CAMPBELL earnestly recommended the adoption of the same course, and Earl GREY moved that the bill should be referred to a Select Committee. He differed from the other two Peers, and thought the bill " unimprove- able." Lord MONTEAGLE and Lord Itenesnm.E supported, and Earl Gnartvima3 and Lord STANLEY of Alderley opposed the motion.

On a division the motion was negatived by 28 to 11, and the House went into Committee ; Lord ST. LEONARDS saying it would be a perfect farce,—he had not had time to prepare a single amendment.

Various amendments were, however, proposed. On clause 1, Lord Moicreaore moved that the minimum of the capital of any company should be fixed at 10,0001., and the minimum of shares at 251. Negatived by 18 to 9. On the motion of Earl GREY, however' the Committee agreed to an amendment fixing the minimum number of shareholders at 25. On clause 6, Earl GREY moved the insertion of words to the effect that a public auditor should be appointed to audit the accounts of limited liability companies. Negatived by. 18 to 10. Earl GREY then moved that the House should resume. Negatived by 19 to 10, On the motion of Earl GREY a clause was inserted making the directors of any company that declared a dividend when the undertaking was insolvent, jointly and severally liable for the debts of the company. Clauses 13 and 14 were struck out, and the House resumed.

The report was received last night, and the third reading fixed for to day.


The ArronNev-Gerixnal. moved that the House should go into Com- mittee on the Charitable Trusts Bill. He regretted that the bill was threatened with considerable opposition ; and defended himself from a charge of having, for his own interest, purposely delayed the bill. Why, he had used every possible exertion to press it forward.

The experience of the last two years had proved that the powers at pre-

sent possessed by the Commission were .far too limited for the purpose for which they were intended. The Commissioners had large powers of inquiry, and they had WO Inspectors at their disposal whom they could send into the .country. They had -power also in cases where the trustees thought proper to apply to them to give couneel and advice, and all trustees acting under the advice and sanction of the Commissioners were deemed to have executed their trusts oenformably to law and equity. Beyond this they had power uponthe application of the trustees to. removeschoolmasters and schoolmis- tresses who rnig4.prove to be incompetent. They had, however, no admin- istrative powers; and 'experience showed that it was extremely desirable to enlarge the powers which they now had. At present they could only exa- mine witnesses by means of the two Inspectors. The bill proposed to give to them personally the same powers as could now be exercised by the Inspectors. Inspect-

ors, proposed, also, to enable the Commissioners to appoint other and more particularly Local Inspectors, for the purpose of making

local inquiries. He was told that there was considerable objection to those Local Inspectors ; but that was a question which might very well be discussed in Committee, as it did not affect the vital principle of the bill. In addition 'to -this, it was proposed to extend the powers of the Commissioners in; various directions. The bill would enable them to take steps of their own motion for the removal of schoolmasters and schoolmistresses, and_ to *amnion the renairing, improvement, and even alienation of property, where the circumstances seemed to render it neces- sary and expedient, Without the interference of the trustees. It was thought desirable to alter the footing upon which the Commissioners were at present placed, and to give them the same jurisdiction in.matters connected with charities as was possessed by the 'County Courts. ; Iti. his opinion it would have been better at once to give to the Commissioners an unlimited juris- diction ; but as there:appeared to be no probability of Carrying any measure containing such a provision, he bid thought it better to confine himself to the more moderate proposal- of extending their juriedietion to that which was exercised by the County Coiirts. Mr. KNIGHT said "the House ought not to. make, -suck an enormous change in the constitution of the Charity Commission, as.was proposed in 'this bill. Prom aninspecting and remedial Board,, it, wss to be converted into a braid of adminiatratinu. and absolute coatrol lime, the whole chari- ties of England. The powers conferred by the bill were monstrous and totally unconstitutional. Be moved that the House should go into Com- mittee that daythree months. Sir WILLIAI4 .YouarrA seconded the amendment; which was sup- ported by Mr: PELLarr and.Mr. Cams& The. latter would- not say that the powers Of the Copimisaioners should not be extended ; but he hoped the House would, not consent to extend them except upon a plan well matured by a Select Committee. The Soeurrou-Gnismisr. urged the House to go into Committee, and pass some Measure with which they might have-just cause to be satisfied. Not a provision in the bill but may be' traced to the;Report of 1835. He ridiculed Mr. Knight's attack upon . the measure ; and . showed that the bill was required to enable the Commissioners to deal effectively with the matters that Come within their control. Mr. HENLEY contended that the bill conferred new judicial powers on the Commissioners.; that it would enable them to dismiss schoolmasters without ,a hearing ; and that it would,lead to an abuse of power. If three angels were put in St. James's Street the public would not be satisfied with their. -private judicial de- cisions. He suggested the omission of the clauses conferring these extra- ordinary .powers. Mr. MaLuss supported the same views.

The ATronwev-Gnienner. said the bill had. been sanctioned by Lord Brougham, Lord Lyndhurst, and Lord-St. Leonardo,. and it is of great importance. But if gentlemen would fight the .clauses conferring what were called judicial powers, he must -make some compromise and with- draw them.

The House went into Committee, and proceeded as far as clause 22, omitting the objectionable clauses. ; .T1LE COURT. OF CHANCERY.

In Committee on-the Despatch of 'Business, Court of Chancery,. Bill, at the morning sitting on Thursday', Sir Jaariis-Gliartall urged many -ob- jections to:thn measure. 'As a member of -the Chancery Commission, he had recommended the abolition:of the office of. Master in. Chancery, and he believed that °nth° whole the thange..has been :salutary and dike- elem..% But the change proposed by the present bill-,the appointment of ,additional junior clerks in.chambera,-although. approved the Judges,' the Master of -the,Rolle,. and the Vice-Chautellorsi-r4hould- be regarded with great jealousy. -Although there are no arrears in.,-the courts, there are great arrearein the chambers, not from, vent of junior clerks; but he- -cause the senior-clerk are overwheloied.with work,. The great object of the chapgeriin 1352 was that the Judges shoiddliave acalme,under their control fro:nit-a: commenoement to its Anal adjudicatiOn.-. But the Judges have given less time to. business . in chambers-4 portion instead of the whole of a day, in the week—than is. desirable. The ought: at least to devote a day a week to Chamber Imisiness. "In order to give the Committee some idea- el theihnsiness which is got through, I may state that duriug the last year„).2,,Opp ,orilipary summonses have been heard; which were before heard by the Ifdatere head clerks that -5000 ortten have been made, which were before theSe alterations made by the Masters • that 3500 -orders have been issued, which -before required a motiowor petition to be' made in open reart; and thatthere have been 500 summonses in the nature of decrees for execution; whit:I.-formerly required a bill and the attendant expenses."

The appointment of additional junior clerks is beginning at the wrong end; it is tolie feared- they will do the work of the Masters' clerks, the clerks of the Judges will do the work of the Masters, and the Judges will no longer be responsible for business in chambers. The .clauses of the -bill will tempt the Judges to transfer. duties to their subordinates, and holdout inducements to patronage; and he should prefer the appointment Of additional Judges to prevent the accumulation of chamber business.

• Mr. IiLuatis said that if there were 'an accumulation of chamber busi- ness, it ought to be remedied ; but- the- remedy need- not be additional Judges. He had been in communication -with the Judges' clerks, who Ikerferined their duties admirably, and he had 'been informed by them that the present staff of chief clerks was sufficient to dispose of the business, provided that they had the assistance of additional junior clerks, and that the attendance of Judges at chambers more than twice a week for one or _two houie was unnecessary.

The Chairman here reported progress, as the time of the morning sitting tad expired.


Sir Geottos GREY moved the third reading of the Criminal Justice Bill, at the morning sitting on Monday. Mr. Thomas CHAMBERS moved that it be read a third time that day three months. The bill is bad in principle, because it sets up pecuniary value as the test of the magnitude of a crime, giving Magistrates at Petty- Sessions power-to deal summarily in all cases where the property stolen is under five shillings in value. This is in reality setting up a new tri- bunal, and depriving the accused of his right to trial by jury. It would place the whole administration of justice in rural districts in the hands of the Police ; and would take away the right of appeal. Mr. KENNEDY seconded the amendment. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL, combating the arguments of Mr. Chambers, Mr. Bannow, and Mn. BAINES, supported the third reading. The amendment was negatived without a division ; but on the motion that the bill be read a third time, the debate was adjourned, as the allotted period of the morning sitting was nearly at an end. On Wednesday, with some amendments the bill passed.


Before moving that the Sale of Beer Bill should be read a second time it was necessary to obtain the consent of the House of Lords to a declaration that it was a ease of urgency ; and on Monday the Marquis of Crain:tweezn moved a resolution to that effect. He said that the Committee of the House of Commons was appointed on the 26th June, but did not report until the 26th July, when they recommended that the act of last year should be immediately amended. The City and the Metropolitan Police Commissioners, as well as fourteen out of sixteen of the Police Magis- trates, are in favour of an alteration of the present law, which inflicts great hardships upon the poor, and, to prevent a small amount of drunken- ness, causes serious inconvenience to tens of thousands, and fills them with discontent.

Lord REDESDA.LE and Lord LITTELTON contended that no case of urgency had been made out; for the House of Commons had thought inquiry necessary before legislation, and had agreed to a compromise. If the rule with regard to second readings were not to be observed it should never have been adopted. Earl Gaut-num, on the other hand, said that nothing should have induced him to consent to the standing order if he had supposed it was intended to put such an absolute construction on it. . The Earl of Suarrrammy said that the House was not in a position to judge for itself without inquiry, and urged the postponement of the bill till next session. Lord Sr. LEONARDS and Lord CONGLETON took similar views; but the Earl of HARDWICK; thinking the Beer Act too stringent, said he should vote for the suspension of the standing order.

On a division the resolution was carried by 25 to 16; and the bill was read a second time.


In Committee on this bill, Mr. Warresine objected to clause 20, be- cause, he said, although disguised, it specially referred to Sir Thomas Wilson, who it was said intended to enclose Hampstead Heath. Mr. FORSTER said that Sir Thomas Wilson need not come to Parliament for powers to build on the heath if this bill passed without the 20th clause. The debate that arose turned on the Wilson case ; and the opposition to the clause on this ground was so great, that the Bowmen-Cinches'. agreed to withdraw the bill.


Mr. STAFFORD moved for copies of reports from the hospitals at Scutari, Kulalee, Abydos, and Therapia, and the report of Sir John M'Neill. In doing so he took occasion to produce letters in support of his own state- ments respecting the condition of the hospitals last winter, and to make inquiries respecting the future. Mr. PEEL said that the hospitals are comparatively empty, but ample provision has been made for contingencies ; and although he trusted Se- bastopol would fall before the winter, full provision has been made for another winter campaign. He read an extract from a letter recently received by Lord Panmure from Dr. Sutherland, in which the latter stated that the atmosphere in the hospitals at Scutari is as pure as it is in any civil hospital he ever was in, and more pure than he had found it in most hospitals. It was not in contemplation to increase the number of hospital nurses. The Government are, however, engaged in the formation of a trained corps of one hundred orderlies, who will be sent out expressly to take the places of the convalescents and others at present doing the duty of order- lies. Everything will also be done to obtain individual responsibility for individual duties. There will, for instance, be a responsible head of the department of the purveyor ; there will be an officer responsible fcie the supply of medicines; and there will be one medical officer in whom would be vested the gen oral control of the department. Mr. Peel said he could not produce Sir John M'Neill's report, as it is confidential. The motion, thus amended, was agreed to.


At the evening sitting on Thursday, Captain SOOBELL moved for a Select Committee to inquire into the government of the Navy relating tc the lists of officers, patronage, promotion, and the efficiency of the seamen of all the grades belonging to it. His object was to show that promotioe is obtained through family and political influence, Sir CHARLES 1V001) objected to the motion on the ground that the whole -subject had been inquired into by Lord Seymour's Committee ; and that all their recommendations except one—on the promotion of captains to be admirals by selection instead of seniority—had been adopted. He entered somewhat into the subject to show the difficulty of disposing of patronage, as complaints are rife whether promotions are made by seniority er selection. He defended the constitution of the Admiralty.

While Admiral WaLcarr was speaking, a Member moved that the House be counted ; and as there were not forty Members present, the House adjourned.


At ten minutes past three o'clock a. in. on Tuesday, the House of Com- mons was counted out, while in Committee on the Crime and Outrage (Ireland) Bill. There were thirty-seven Members present.