NEWS OF THE WEEK.

PARLIAMENT has been engisietiluring the greater part of this week, as it was during the "whiffe-Of the last, in discussing the Reform Bill. The continued' debating of a question which, in that stage at least, no man could screw up his courage to oppose, otherwise than by words, was more calculated to weary than to enlighten the public. The length of the arguments employed by the opponents of the bill have been relieved by no redeeming quality of novelty or force. The cry of revolutionary doctrines— of corporation-robbery—of the exclusion of talent—the appeals to the memory of Mr. PITT, Mr. BURKE, and Mr. CANNING, which Sir CHARLES WETHERELL raised; have been continued by his followers. . What, however, Sir CHARLES put humorously, his imitators have put heavily—the baseness of the metal remains, but the curious workmanship has disappeared. The speeches which have attracted most attention on the Oppo- sition side, are those of Mr. NORTH, Mr. PERCEVAL, and Mr. PRAED, though for different reasons. Mr. NORTH'S speech was, with much tinsel, much false glitter, perhaps the best, certainly the most brilliant that has emanated from his party. The speech of Mr. PERCEVAL was chiefly distinguished for a furious attack on the daily press, with the reporters of which the honourable gentleman has for some time past been maintaining a controversy on a point of great importance—namely, whether the House laughed at his notice of motion about the celebrated general fast. We should, from the complexion of Mr. PERCEVAL'S argument, consider him as secure as most men from the laughter of his hearers— men cannot yawn and smile at the same time. The speech of Mr. PRAED was a miserable failure—the matter of it bad, the manner not mending • the matter. We pronounced a favourable judgment on this young gentleman's first appearance ; we really -thought that he was determined to view things in a practical, busi- ness light ; and the conversion of an inditer of epigrams into a solid political economist, seemed wonderful. We now suspect, that on the occasion of his debilt, Mr. PRAED was crammed—that his learned comparison of plain handkerchiefs with coloured was supplied by some kind friend who sought to play off the young member against the Chancellor of the Exchequer. On Tuesday, he professed-to give the House a new view of the subject of Re form • but his new view was no more than a hazy copy of the old, and the. House Oh'd him down.

From the contemplation of such small deer, it is refreshing to turn to one who has on this occasion nobly vindicated his claim to the character of a man of highest intellect and most brilliant fancy —the member for Waterford. His speech has been the crack one, not of the week only, but of the whole debate ; less rhetorical than MACAULEY'S, less argumentatiVe than JEFFREY'S, less as- suming than PEEL'S, but excelling all three in the great virtues of a good speech in Parliament. It was full of facts, novel and striking, aid .germane to the matter ; replete with strong and in- telligible argument, set off by all the charms of a vigorous imagi- nation ; the illustrations logical, the logic illtistrative ; its tone and temper were manly and moderate, the words fitlychosen, the delivery admirable—" apples of gold in pictures of silver." Oh ! si sic mania! One advantage will arise from the lengthened discussion which the Great Measure has undergone, not only in its principle but in its parts—the debate on the second reading will be proportionably narrowed. There remains little else for Monday senmght than the vote. To again ring the changes with which our ears have been dinned for the last ten days, is impossible : the very orators would sink under the infliction of the echo of their own sweet voices: And there remains now hardly a man in the House, of the least eminence, who has not delivered his sentiments. On the Opposition side, all the talent of the boroughs has been called into active operation—for hardly any but -borough members have spoken ; and though the rules of the House do permit these gen- Cement°. speak again, no rule calls on the House or the country to hear them. The issue of Monday 21st is variously estimated. What we now state; -may berelied on as a correct view of the several parties, "to the latest date to which the accounts have been made up." The lists of Ministerial adherents have been canvassed by Viscount DUNCANNON, the Independents by Mr. HUME, the PEEL party and the Tories generally by Mr. HOLMES,—all skilful and active men in their way. The result of the joint scrutiny is, that of the ascertained members, there are precisely the same number against the measure as for it ; but there are eighty members whose senti- ments are yet unknown, or at least unexpressed. Were all who have declared to come forward, these undeclared men would evi- dently have the determination of the question in their own hands ; but this is hardly to be anticipated. There .are always good ex- cuses for absence when a member seeks for them, and strong motives for seeking them when the object on the one hand is to oblige a fallen party, and on the other to disoblige the King, the Ministry, and the People. We shall not, therefore, be surprised to find the Ministers, on the second reading of the Bill, in a con- siderable majority : but in the event of a defeat, we may almost say we know, they will counsel the King to dissolVe Parliament next day.

The Reform Bill will not be introduced until Monday next. Sir CHARLES WETHERELL last night complained of the delay ; and similar complaints have been made in other quarters. We i believe we can furnish a key to the mystery. It is the wish and . the resolution of the Ministry to pass the Bill, the whole Bill, and nothing but the Bill. It was necessary, therefore, that not an " if " or an " and" should be unconsidered ; and that in its details and in its wording the measure should be as impregnable to cap- tious or technical opposition as in its principle it is impregnable to rational attack.

The other topics of Parliamentary discussion during the week have been few and uninteresting, comparatively speaking. The Colonial Intercourse Bill passed through a committee last night ; and a strenuous attempt was made by the Marquis of UHANDO5 to procure a reduction of the Sugar-duties to 20s.; which was, however, defeated by a large majority,—the numbers being for the reduction 49, against it 147.

The Lords have done little else than receive petitions. Lord WHARNCLIFFE threatened them with a discussion by anticipation on the Reform Bill, on Thursday ; but saw fit to withdraw his motion. The Chancery Reforms Bills wait for the convalescence of Lord ELDON. That aged lawyer is not only dilatory in himself, but the cause of delay in others. The other business of the session advances but slowly. Every thing, indeed, hinges on the Great Measure.

CONTINUATION OP THE REFORM DEBATE.

The debate was resumed on Monday night, by a remark from the Mar. quis of CHANDOS on a speech of Colonel Lacy Evans, the late Member for Rye, at the Crown and Anchor meeting last we%lc. Colonel Evans men- tioned, that he had been present at a number of Meetings, and that, if it were necessary, a large body of men would march to London to assist the King and the Ministers in casting forth the oppressors of the King, the Government, and the people. The Marquis of Chandos complained of this, as an attempt to influence by intimidation the deliberations of Parliament. He wished Ministers to state whether they countenanced such threats ? Upon their answer his course of action would depend.

Lord ALTHORP said, Ministers neither countenanced such speeches nor did they know any thing more of them than the Marquis of Chandos did.

Sir CHARLES WETIIERELL said, the question was not so much whether Ministers had taken means to excite, as—had they taken proper means to allay the commotions to which the introduction of the bill had given rise ? Sir Charles said, the only convulsions into which the proposition of Ministers had thrown the House, were convulsions of laughter at its' folly. He was proceeding to answer some of the arguments of former speakers, when he was called to order by the Speaker. He concluded by stating, that it was the duty of Ministers to put down the popular meet- ings in their favour. Lord ALTHORP said, Sir Charles had forgotten the question of the Marquis of Chandos. The Ministers, he assured Sir Charles, would not be wanting to put down any proceedings that were contrary to law. Sir EDWARD Kr:Armen-cr. was inclined to think that Colonel Evans should be called to the bar, for the expressions he had made use of ; still, he had a great disinclination to such a course of proceeding. Sir Ed- ward said, although he did not accuse Ministers of interfering directly_ or indirectly, it was yet true that persons connected with Ministers had attended and got up these meetings. Mr. BENETT said, that expressions similar to those which were attri- buted to Colonel Evans, had been used in hundreds of the petitions re- ceived by the House. • Mr. Alderman WOOD said, the City of London was quite unanimous in its approbation of the plan : at the great meeting held that day, only two hands in all had been raised against it. Mr. Cosa of Norfolk said, he had sat more than fifty years in the House ; he had ever been a Reformer, and he intended to continue so. He Considered the bill worthy of the noble house of Russell ; and he should give it his most cordial support. This .preliminary discussion ended, Colonel SIBTHORP opened the der bate, by declaring himself not-a fodical„but a root-and branch Reformes. He objected, however, to the disfranchisement of the smaller boroughs, because the electors thefe,had never abused their trust. He was certain that if a committee were appointed to investigate the matter, it would.

be found that the line of distinction between the boroughs which were to be left and those that were to be cut off, would be found to have been

drawn with a nice attention to the interests of the Whigs. He also found fault with the bill because it did not provide for the accommoda- tion of the reporters of the newspapers.

Mr. TENNYSON said, he would not depart from the principles of Re- form he had always professed, though he sat for a borough where he had but one constituent. As Whig borough proprietors had been alluded to, he must notice the conduct of his relative, the member for Durham. Be was ready to give up property in boroughs to the amount of 100,000/. which had descended to him by inheritance, in order to rescue the country from a corrupt oligarchy. On this question, the King and the people of England were at length happily united in the same cause. The King and the Ministers were, at length, the true friends of the peOple. The battle to be fought was that of the King and People against the Oligarchy. Government could claim little credit for courage, in a struggle where, from the inequality of the combatants, victory was already assured to them.

Sir GEORGE CLERK protested against the supposition that the members for Scotland approved of the plan, because they said nothing about it.

lie had himself waited for the opportunity till that night. He denied the necessity for the change ; but, assuming a case of necessity, he admitted the competency of Parliament to make the alteration. What were the evils to be got rid of by the bill ? The overwhelming influence of the Crown ? No such influence existed in an immoderate degree. The over- vrhelming influence of the Crown could not be urged in a House of Commons which bad already turned out one set of Ministers. Besides, the weakness of the present Ministry did not argue much for the influence of the Crown in that House. (Cheers and laughter.) The petitions on the table had been referred to, but by far the greater number of these petitions asked what the bill did not propose to grant— vote by ballot. Sir George Clerk believed that many of the members who now supported the bill bitterly regretted the pledges they had so inconsiderately given. If Parliament were dissolved, he would advise members to carry to their constituents, not this Bill but the Budget in their hands, and tell the people that they need not press for Reform under the false notion that it would lead to retrenchment.

Sir George said he should be most proud to have his name enrolled in the list of that majority by which he felt assured the bill would be rejected.

Mr. HOPE trusted that his being Member for Gatton would not guide the House in its judgment of the free and unbiassed sentiments he should offer. He also begged that the silence of the Scotch members might not be construed into approbation of the measure. As it regarded that country, the plan was not yet before the House. The general question, in his opinion, resolved itself into two heads— Sin, the necessity and propriety of Reform generally ; then, of this par- ticular measure.

If Reform were necessary or proper, the necessity or propriety did not appear from any reasons adduced by gentlemen opposite. All their arguments resolved themselves into this simple reason—that because a call for Reform existed oat of doors, Reform must be conceded. But this argument proved too much,—if it were received at all, it must be taken to show that it was not necessary to deliberate, the House had only to follow the popular current. He would not call their representa- tions a cry or a clamour. Representations on Reform, emanating from the people, did certainly exist ; but he denied that they would endure. •

He contended that Reform was not the end in view, but that different Classes of petitioners supported the question for very different objects,— one class comprising the intelligence of the middle classes ; the other, crazy Radicals and visionary anarchists, ready to share the plunder of the country. " Now what is the object of the middle class ? Look to the petitions—examine them—they almost uniformly call for a reduction of taxation. They consider Par- liamentary Reform as the great means of obtaining that reduction. I know very well that taxation bears very heavily on the people, and I sincerely wish that the assessed and other taxes could he removed ; but, situated as the country is, it W illbe impossible to afford such relief." The people had been led away, and discon- tent fomented, by false lists of the salaries and emoluments granted to individuals ; and gentlemen on the other side of the Househad assisted in keeping up that feeling, before they got into office ; but since that, they had come down to the House and declared, that, under existing circumstances, they could not make any great or con- siderable reduction. Ministers ought, however, to state explicitly what those cir- cumstances were. (Hear, hear !) Would Parliamentary Reform enable them to grant relief from taxation He thought not. Would it ameliorate the situation of Iceland? Certainly not, for it scarcely touched that country at all. Would it give relief to the agricultural labourers ? No; all it would do with respect to them was to disfranchise them. Would Reform tend to allay the storms which now disturbed the Continent 1-1.1e could not see the necessity for this proposed Reform; the Rouse was anxious to do every thing that could be done for she benefit of the peo- ple. Was not every man in that House as solicitous for the national honour as for his own private honour ? Did not every man in that House feel and prize the high and glorious situation which this country held amongstother nations, as much as he felt and prized the liberty which it was his birthright to enjoy / He objected to the measure itself, because it drew aline of distinction, which did not now exist, between those to whom the franchise would be extended, and those from whom it was withheld. The plan was not a Reform according to old principles, but the establishment of a' new con- stitution. It would give the House of Commons too much power, and confer the elective franchise upon persons who had not sufficient property or education to guarantee a just and correct use of it.

- Lord D. STUART admitted that the British Constitution was glorious and most noble ; but there were many defects in it, which, if unre- formed; would ruin the entire fabric. He observed that something had' been gained by the present discussion,for, though many of the ,opponents. Of the measure had heretofore resisted all Reform, nobody now declared himself hostile to any degree of Reform. • He would ask thosegentlemen who were now willing to grant some Reform, by giving representatives to large bodies of people, where they were when bills were brought in to disfranchise certain corrupt boroughs, and extend the electiie fran- chise to great towns ? Why had they not come forward and declared their seal,' * tents t (Hear, hear!) .,-.4r4rhh, said-that the measure would destroy the influence of property, ittid°64eiiiirn the aristocracy. Lord D. Stuart -thought that }Under the 'proposed plan property would enjoy its just influence, and the aristocracy their just power. (Cheers.) The electors would bring to the exercise of Iheir-tinties, not property atone, but, what was of still greater importance--.-charac- ter and independence. It would induce gentlemen Yo teside-Mortitrthe country, go more amongst the people ; and that of itself would be a most beneficial conse- stuence. The expense of elections would be greatly lessened; which every person soiled admit to be a very great amendment. But the most important benefit of all was tbis;--that therneasure Woultrconcillabs Urge masses of the people, remove discontent, and introduce peate-anctsatisfaction. Be denied that this plan of Reform was extorted by intlmidation-or popular clamour. If there were popular clamour, it was ,popular clamour founded on just and reasonable grounds. Thehonourable member for Preston had, on a _former evening, declared that the people could not place any dependence on that House ; but he trusted that when the honourable member saw this measure carried by a triumphant majority, he would alter his opinion. His Lordship hoped that no patron or representative of a close borough would be so sordid as to oppose a great public measure on private and interested grounds. Under the new system, he should only be half a man ; but no selfish consideration should prevent the performance ofhis duty to the public.

Colonel TyRRELL said, he had very lately stood a most severe contest for his seat in a county abutting on the metropolis ; and during the whole course of the canvass and poll, he had never once been asked his

opinion on the subject of Reform. On consideration, he recollected that about the close of the poll he had been asked by Mr. Whittle Harvey, what bethought on the question ; and he then answered, as he did now, that he would vote for the punishment of any borough where corruption was proied to exist, whether it were Colchester or St. Ives. There had,

indeed, been a petition from Essex in favour of Reform; and as the word was an ambiguous one, he would tell the House what his consti- tuents meant by it.

They meant reduction of taxation ; they meant economy, retrenchment, repeal of assessed taxes. (Hear !) In their opinions on those subjects, for the most part, he agreed, as neither he nor they were averse to the imposition of a well-regulated pro- perty-tax, and he was himself an humble advocate for such a moderate Reform as could be effected consistently with a due regard for the ancient institutions of the country. The measure proposed by his Majesty's present Ministers appeared to hint oppressive, tyrannical, and revolutionary; and he thanked the noble Lord accordingly for having exposed it to men of plain understandings, unmystified by Cabinet hum- bug. or the usual significant obscurity of office.

He thought he could not better conclude his observations than in the language of the member for Colchester ; which should certainly induce. them to pause before they proceeded— That honourable gentleman, every one well knew, !was not a person to stand upon trifles, never having courted the reputation of being "particular to a shade.''' (General laughter.) The Radicals, it should be remembered, were all strenuous advocates for this notable Ministerial plan of Reform ; and what said ithe honour, able gentleman of that party no later than Monday last/ "The Radicals," said he, by their system, would eventually overthrow monarchy itself, which, after all, is the most paternal form of government which the ingenuity of man has ever been able to devise." (Laughter.) Mr. SEXES said, that it was merely designed to take away a power from parties who ought never to have possessed it. The opponents of the measure, however (who, by the way, spoke the sentiments of those by whom they were habitually controlled), had called it revolutionary. Now it was most desirable that those gentlemen should define the word revolu- tionary, and explain the acceptation in which they had employed it.. If to transfer the franchise from corrupt and depopulated boroughs to extensive counties and im- portant towns were revolutionary, then revolutionary he acknowledged it to be. He would wish, however, to be referred to the statute, which entitled peers to have re- presentatives in that House in common with the people, to whom, by every prin. ciple,of the constitution, it ostensibly belonged. If the Sovereign and the Nobles of the realm had a legitimate claim to legislate for the nation in what Was nominally recognized as the House of Commons, where was the necessity for a House of Louie.. properly so called ? Were not the prerogative of the Crown and the privileges of the Peerage superfluous, if the principle of such an unconstitutional anomaly were acknowledged Mr. LONG WEr.LESLEY said, he was one of those gentlemen who were about to be despoiled of half their rights; but he should relinquish per- sonal considerations, and he should.always persevere in that course. He thought the fact of Mr. Western having so long sat for Essex, and having been all his life an advocate for Reform, spoke more for the feeling of Essex on that subject than any declaration of Colonel Tyrrell could be supposed to do. Mr. Wellesley added— If the people themselves had not been to universally in favour of a Reform in the. Legislature, he should perhaps have been inclined to question the expediency of the proposed measure, although he would always deny it to he revolutionary ; but the multitude of petitions which they had received from all quarters furnished the best moral evidence of the existing state of public opinion. All the petitions which had been presented to the House, though they might differ in some minor points, agreed in one particular—they all prayed for Reform. Sir GEORGE WARRENDER disapproved of the bill. It was not a mea- sure conferring rights upOn the people, but withdrew or confiscated the rights they already possessed. He should not have objected to See representatives of Manchester, Birmingham, and Leeds, in that House ; and be was sorry that advantage had not been taken of the conviction of the corrupt borough of Grampound, to transfer the franchise to Leeds ; but it was a gross act of injustice to deprive any body of people of the.elec- five franchise,mithout any act of delinquency being proved. In that point of view he bad looked at the measure for the disfranchisement of the Irish forty-shilling .freeholders, and he regarded in the same light the pr.posal to disfranchise his con- stituents, the potwallopers of Honiton. He had received communications from. such of-his constituents as were Radical Reformers. They could not understand why they were to be deprived of their just rights, because the Ministers wished to diminish the numbers of that House.

Sir George declared, that the cry-against close borough members was a very unjust one. He never gave such independent votes as when he was member for Westbury, and had Sir Robert Peel for his colleague. He had divided against the right ho- nourable baronet on every occasion but One, and that ,was when they both found themselves in a minority. If the proposed measure should pass, the boroughs. which would be left in the possession'of the elective franchise would be subject to Treasury influence. He had some experience in these matters, and he knew that the representatives of boroughs with'a thousand and upwards of voters, were more teased by importunities than members for close boroughs. He bad made a calcula- tion of the value of favours asked in the course of a year by one such borough, and they amounted to 3.5,0001. or 40,000/. "Sir George Warrender stated that it was rumoured that attempts of an'unfair nature would be made to obstruct the proposed measure ; but he would be a party to no cabal, and whatever opposition he gave to the measure, he would give to it openly, and in the face of the country.

Lord Howrox said, he very much doubted whether the potwalloperst of Honiten would prefer that the franchise of convicted boroughs should' be extended to.greatmanufacturing towns, to the present measure. " If4 were armed with all the inquisitorial powers which the. East Retford bilV granted, and were to summon the honourable gentleman to the bar of -the House,. and require him to state themanner in which the .elections of floniton bad been conducted for the last century, ,I think the .honourable -gentleman would be com- pelled. according to his own principles, to admit that such a course Would not be more beneflcfal to his cchistiruentstlian the proposed measuremf Reform: But that solemn and tedious-farce of the East Retford case, which was fottr years before the country, has had this effect; that such unblushing hypocrisy-as the pretence to re- form in such a manner the corruptions of the, House pf Commons wasIbr ever at an end." . The burdens which pressed upon thepountry owed,their. origin to the sinister influence exercised by individuals who had the power of re- turning members to Parliament. They had not been created 'within a short and recent period, but had grown up during a century of misgo-

vernment and extravagance.

If the constitution should remain unaltered, what security was there that extra- vagance, from the effects of which the country was now suffering, would not be corn- s:pitted 1 A reform of the constitution of the House would give the people perfect Security that the faulty system under which these burdens had grown up would be

corrected.

He warned the opponents of the measure not to press its supporters too far. If Ministers had not too mach discretion to allow themselves to be tempted by the taunts of their adversaries, they could make out a - case which would render the cry for Reform throughout the country even louder than it PM He admired the plan which had been submitted to the House, because it left no matter for future concession. (Cheers from the Opposition.) If it had been framed on the opposite principle—if it had left half the rotten boroughs in existence, or taken only one member from each of them,—iugtead of a final settlement, it would bare been what the member for Celle Castle called a payment on account : instead of a lasting peace, it would have been but a hollow truce. The present measure effectually brOke up the powerful combination which influenced the decisions of that House. A moderate Reform, or what he might calla sham Reform. would only stimulate the Reformers to fresh exertions, The measure merely proposed to correct the inequalities of the existing system of representation : it declared, that where there was no population, there should be no representatives ; and that where there were great and powerful masses of the population without representatives, they should in future possess them. A moderate Reform now would not satisfy the people. The reform would be extended every year, until the people would become so accustomed to change, that at length the Constitution itself would be entirely swept away. Of those who opposed this measure te would ask, would it be prudent to disappoint the excited hopes of the people ? Whether it was proper to have ex- cited those hopes so far, he would not stay to inquire ; the thing was done. The proposal had been made, and it was now too late to recal it. (Cheers from the Oppo- sition.) It was impossible to suppose that the Reformers would be satistied with any thing less than the measure proposed. More they might ask, but less they would never accept. (Hear!) Mr. W . PEEL, wished to know when this discussion was to end ? After the brilliant speeches which had been made on both sides, it would require no ordinary ingenuity to produce any fresh observation. Nevertheless, he was desirous of protesting against the abominable in- justice of the Ministerial measure, both in principle and detail. He owed it to his present and his former constituents, to remonstrate indig- xtantly against the proposed spoliation of 'their privileges. The details of

the measure would be unjust, even if the principle were acknowledged to be good.

By the Population Returns, the population of Tavistock was stated at 5,463, that of Caine at 4,549, and that of Tamworth 3,572. There was a gross error in the return of the population of Tara worth. The returning officer had stated the num- ber of houses :n Tamworth to be ;*-17 ; in Tavistock, 560; and in Caine, 4Gl ; and yet the population of the two last places was represented to be more considerable than that of Tamworth. The return from the Tax-office stated the number of 'ouses in Tamworth, rated at above 101. to be 137; and in Caine, 124. The return of the number of electors gave to Tamworth 322; to Tavistock 27; and to Caine IS. He had a right to say, therefore, that in respect of population and property Tamworth was superior to Tavistock or Caine. Why, then, was the former borough to be deprived of its representatives, and the two last to retain theirs ?

Mr. Peel said—it might be his last dying speech, but he was deter- mined to make no confession.

'When he heard it propounded, he was satisfied that the purge would not pass ; that the dose would not go down. The practice of the noble Lord differed from that -of physicians in general. All physicians affected to cure, and some proceeded on • the principle kill or cure, but the. noble Lord acted on the principle of half kill half cure. The noble Lord reminded him of the manner in which nurses got children to take physic. He told the House that the measure would do them a great. deal of good; and that if they would swallow it like good boys, without spitting any of it out, it should be the last dose. The noble Lord, however, had forgot the piece Of sugar. When the noble Lord should give up practice,might he not be succeeded by some other' doctor who would propose his mixture of annual Parliaments and .universal suffrage ? He believed that if the present measure should be carried, three months would not pass before the honourable member for Preston would say,," You bare not done half enough : let me persuade you to try a little of Hunt's Matchless."

Mr. J. RUSSELL was sure that Ministers were free from unworthy motives in drawing the line between boroughs to be disfranchised, and those that were to be preserved.

Mr. Peel was materially incorrect with respect to the•population and number of louses in Tavistock and Caine. .Mr. Russell found, by the returns upon the table

• of the House, that the number of houses in Tavistock was 710, and in Caine SOS. -When the honourable member' stated that the number of electors at Tavistock amounted to only 27, he forgot that it was to remedy grievances of this description

that the present measure was introduced. .

Mr. Joust Wool) said, that according to the doctrine. of virtual re- presentation, it mattered not whether the House consisted of nominees .of noble lords, or was elected by a large or small portion of the people ; but Sir Robert Peel had corrected that fallacy. The right honourable baronet had said, that if Parliament was dissolved, he ' would go down to Tam worth with the bill in his hand, and tell the electors that be bad resisted to the utmost this measure, which went to deprive them of a part of their votes. Mr. Wood should address the electors of Preston, who were now .6,000, but who, in course of time, would be reduced to 1;000, in a different manner. Be would Say to them—.1t is true, a portion of your elective franchise is lost ; you returned me by universal suffrage ; but recollect that your two votes in Parliament were liable to be overpowered by the nominees of any noble proprietor of boroughs ; that by this bill, 500,000 more persons enjoy the elective franchise. In depriving you of your franchise, I have contributed to confer it upon many other individuals who are qualified to use it well, and have taken it away from a few individuals, who have always used it ill ; and therefore your rights will be better guarded under the limited than they were under the extended franchise." The majority of the House was returned by SOO individuals, some of them Peers, who were influenced by bus Man motives, sod acted upon by their families and dependents. The electors, too, were sometimes a handful of individuals liable to temptation and to pecuniary in- . gumless To remove these anomalies—to give all an interest in the preservation of property—was the object of this bill. The House was not to be deterred from doing this act of justice by the yells of the monster corruption. That monster was now at bay ; it had received a mortal wound; its plunges were violent, but it was in its last agony. .Sir J. JouxsrowE (member for York county) said, that the measure was conceived in the true spirit of impartiality, steering equally clear of political antiquaries and political projectors. So long as members were-returned by a small number, the constituency had no confidence in them, and designing men had thus an opportunity of employing this as a lever'of public opinion. -This measure -would snake the House an organ, which, not being disowned by the people, would give a proper tone to the country. The class of persona to whoth the electiVe franchiliewas given would prevent its being said that persons-who had ben returned by a 'violation of law were-sent to the House to make law. . The billwould give to the lower classes of freemen higher principles of action, and deter them. from looking to their elective franchise as a means of putting money. into their pockets. The qualification, in his opinion, was sufficiently high, but natty° :high to heeXclusise.

He was convinced ,that the aristocracy had nothing to fear from it. If they endeavoured -to, wialheaffections of the, people by kind and cour- %Seems behaviour--df they -were-content ,o rest their influence on the nttraetion of their -virtues,- they would -be sure tovetain it. Parini- . snentary, patronage only exposed theta to an, odium which was every dal, horns-nag.; end some of thentliactiliosso.t.thOyiw,efe sensible of this hy freshly- offering to gine-it.up. -

...A. •

Mr. NORTH said, before members agreed to dispense with the old tea. stitution and to receive the new, they ought to show that they knew scimething of the scheme which they rejected, and that they were capable of estimating the operation of the scheme they accepted. When Lord John Russell proposed so bold au excision-of what he denominated the rotten or superfluous parts of the system, it was right to inquire whether they did not contain some principles essential to the vitality of what he proposed to spare. He was persuaded that the rotten boroughs were necessary to the end they were designed to answer in the constitution. Lord John Russell hail said, that every man who had a seat ought to have a real representative character ; now Mr. North begged to say, that the mere quality of being representative for the people was not sufficient.

Whatever might have been the original of our constitution, most certain it was. that in the progress of time, as our empire expander!, and our interests became more extensive and complicated, the House of Commons had become an assembly which required a mixture of every different species of talent. That being the case, they must have, by some expedient or other, the means of leading into that Goose that multiform knowledge, that diversified experience, that variegated familiarity with all the difihrent anti complicated interests of the state which were necessary to arrive at safe conclusions when any of those ditiere tit and corn pi ca t eci interests came underdis- cussion. How could this be done under the proposed exclusion of the close bo- roughs? It might be true. that the interests of Birmingham and Manchester wouid he represented ; but how would the East India, the West India, and the Colonial interests be represented 1 The noble Lord was destroying the oceans of getting at those lights which were necessary to elucidate the questions in which those great interests were materially cemented. Ile intuid take an example from the honour- able member who had spoken so disinterestedly ou a former evening—he meant the honourable member for Midhurst. Ile had represented a close borough. Had he been found an useless representative ? (liens, hear!) Was it net from him that the House had heard that unanswerable speech a,minst the tax on the transfer of stock which had determined the Chancellor of the Exchequer to abandon it (Hear. hear!) If these boroughs be suppressed, many great men would inevitably- be excluded.

By suppressing them, you will prevent an opportunity from being opened to talent ; and doing that, you will also prevent talent from expanding. How was it that in revolutions talent always showed itself? Because opportunity was afforded to it then, which was denied at other times. Why was it that in free states talent was most rife ? Because free states nourished the growth of it by the collision of opinions which freedom generated. Reduce then the number of these close bo- roughs, and you reduce the amount of talent not only of this House, but also of the country. (Hear, hear !) He considered close boroughs of vital importance, because they afforded

a refuge for the holders of unpopular opinions.

If all popular opinions were just—if what pleased the multitude also pleased the wise—there would be no weight in this argument ; but could any Minister carry on the Government honestly to the people, and faithfully to his Sovereign, for. any length or ti me,• without rendering himself occasionally unpopular ? If he attempted to he popular at all times, he must furnish the people with cotes which pleased the palate but injured the stomach, instead of providing them with that sustenance which diffused health and strength through the whole body. (Cheers.) This was particularly exemplified in the cases of Mr. Grattan and Mr. Flood, in 1783 ; who, notwithstanding their great services, had the ut- most difficulty in getting returned to Parliament after the dissolution in April of that year, and were actually, after wandering over half the kingdom, returned for close boroughs. Adverting to the disfranchisement of the forty-shilling freeholders of Ireland—a measure passed for the purpose of counterbalancing the Emancipation Bill—Mr. North said, it would be wholly neutralized by 'Lord John Russell's motion, inasmuch as it would tie the Protestants neck and heels in more than twenty cities, towns, and boroughs of he- land. If the proposed measure were final, he could be content, formi- dable as it was, to regard it with some degree of tolerance ; but it wear a change e7hieli must of necessity lead to greater changes. There was in that lowest deep, a lower deep, •

Still threatening to devour them. opening wide."

A'Scauty harvest, a sudden panic, troubles on the Continent, might in a year ce two besiege the Government with anotherdemand for another alteration in the re- presentative system. What would they-then say, when Mr. Warburton came down with a proposition for the ballot, or Hr. Hume for uuiversal suffrage ? Would they not, when they defended the constitution they were about to establish, be told, in the language which the Foreign Secretary had used towards that of Belgium, that it wasa constitution of yesterday I The Secretary for Ireland had told them that no change could be properly called revolutionary which bad the consent of the. three estates of the realm.

Now, he would ask, whether. if the supplies.were to be voted forten years—if the Habeas Corpus Act were to be repealed—if the press were to be annihilated (alt which the three estates-were competent to do)—whether, hesaids the right honourable Secretary would or would not call these measures revolutionary ?—(Here Sir Robert Peet whispered something to Mr. Korth.)—Ay, and especially.iflhese were effected by that of which the noble Secretary for the Colonies had spoken to them, nameyys some physical and-external power acting upon the three estates. (Cheers from the Opposition.) But when he saw that this measure would inevitably disturb the ba- lance of the constitution, destroy the ancient institutions of the country, and make even the Ring's crown sit loosely on his head—(cheers from the Opposition, and cries Of " Oh, oh !"from the Ministerial benches)—was he not justified in calling it a re- volutionary measure ? When they found that the wound which:was struck would prove fatal, was their attention to be turned aside from the catastrophe, in orderto inquire by whose hand it had been-inflicted ? -Did murder change its character and become less than murder because it was suicidal (" Oh, oh !" from.the NiniSteria

benches.)

Mr. ROBERT GRANT, in answering Mr. North, said, he would endee- your to practise what that gentleman had so recommended and so forgotten —moderation. Neither would he say of him, ashe had said of his opponents forlick of better argument, that he was arrogant and conceited. In humbly treading in the footsteps of Pitt and Fes, Mr. Grant thought the Ge.. vernment might have calculated on escaping from such epithets. Mr. Grant defended himself from the charge of inconsistency, because hc„ who had been an adherent of Mr. Canning, now advocated .Parliamet- tary -Reform. :He must frankly confess, that his early and unconsiderod thoughts were against Reform ; but the events of late years, and more especially of the last general election, Which it was absurd to represent as springing out- of any temporary excitement, had effected a change its his opinions which now he was called on to avow—t onvincedthat to man could with justice be deemed inconsistent who gave his voice and his vote consistently with the dictates of his judgment and his

conscience. .

.The allksion by Mr, North to the Catholic question Was unfortunate: it tempted those who heard him to ask, whether, in the discussion pf :that question, they had not liitened to not a few arguments very closely analogous to those which Mr. North had used against Reform—whether .thedernand for EmanciPation had not'been met by declamations against the folly of yielding to ..temporary excitement, and of innovating ante constitution under-which we had gained such high advantages and last- i7/1.711°IdessitiVillad. ;:e yen Ahem ,fino,speapasseges aboutthellories of Cressy 'tad

?Metiers, as If they were the effects of the Mole borough systems But there he was anticipated by the Catholic question. It was a standing topic on that ques- tion. In every discussion of it we were referred to the deeds recorded In our his- tory; we were referred to all those things which we were told had made us the "envy and admiratiou of the world ;" and we were asked, would we permit aught of Innovation upon a constitution under which the country hud witnessed such a career of prosperity and glory ? The opponents of Reform said to the friends of the proposed measure, " You talk of clamour, and violence, and agitation, but we tell you that you yourselves are the cause of it." How often had they not been con. demned to hear the same argument urged against emancipation The standing topic- then was,—" You talk of the agitation of the people, but you have no right to talk of it, the causes of It are of your own producing.' What was the answer of Sir Robert Peel when he took in hand the settlement of that great question ? He said, "I ask not whence this discontent proceeds, but I say that it exists, and I recommend you to take this measure for the removal of it." The House was told, in reference to emancipation, " See the consequences of such a mea- sure, behold the expectations which you will raise amongst the Catholics, and which it will be impossible to satisfy,—they will call for an abolition of tithes—for an abolition of taxes. and for a separation from England altogether." And how was this met by Sir Robert Peel ? Why, as he now met it—that the only way to defeat tinreasonable c1reml.e, was to grant those that were reasonable. (Cheers.) They had beard another argument used on this occasion—the extreme cruelty, as it was called, of disfranchising not individuals but whole classes of persons. The very same ar- gument was used when Mr. Littleton introduced his bill in l825, for disfranchising the forty-shilling freeholders of Ireland. Sir Robert Peel said he could not consent to proceeding with such a sweeping measure of disfranchisement, and that he could st at all consent to such a disfranchisement without at least au examination into tl,, causes that called for it. Four years after he commenced a similar reform, by pro- resin? a measure of similar disfranchisement without any examination whatever. The right honourable Baronet did his duty in defiance of the taunts which were thrown out against him, and his Majesty's present Government would do theirs.

Mr. B. Grant then commented on the argument, that close boroughs were necessary to admit talent into the House, and for the purpose of eolonial representation. Mr. North had told them that Mr. Grattan, and Mr. Flood, and other Irish patriots, had in 1782 found difficulty in obtaining seats, notwithstanding their patriotic exertions. But why did they ? Simply because the representation then in force in Ireland Was so essentially one of close boroughs. (Hear, hear !) Mr. North asked, what, tinder the new system, was to become of the West India, and the East India, and other colonial interests ? The representation would remain unaltered. (Hear !) Four East India directors sat in the House fur places which the present measure would not affect. (Hear I) The West India interest had one of the members for Buckinghamshire, for Sandwich, for Rochester, for Cricklade, and for Dumfries : all of which places would remain untouched by the proposed bill. (Hear !) Before he sat down, he could not help expressing his surprise—to use a mild term— at the sneers of the honourable member for Newport, at the middle classes of so- ciety in this country. (Hear, hear!) The honourable member quoted certain ex- pressions contained in Ecclesiasticus, respecting the usefulness of artisans " to be sought for in the public counsels, or placed in the seat ofjudgmeut," as a portion of the sacred scripture. The passage quoted by the honourable member was a part of the Apocrypha (Hear, hear 1), and, like the argument founded upon it, was spurious and apocryphal. (Hear, hear!) Mr. Grant concluded— The clamour which had been so long raised, and with too much success, against the Catholic Relief Bill, had yielded to the wisdom of experience ; so would it, sooner or later, with respect to the still greater question of Reform. Grant the people their just rights : so far from its following that therefore a concession of their unjust demands must be the consequence, he maintained that by granting what was just and right, they strengthened themselves against the encroachments of what was unjust and not right. By doing so, they would be acquitted in their own con- sciences, and might, with confidence, leave their fame to their country, and the event. to Providence. (Cheers.) At the close of the debate on Monday, the Marquis of Cuarnms, with a view to ulterior measures on his own part, asked Lord Altborp, for what day he had fixed the second reading ? Lord ALTRORP replied, that lie intended to move the second reading on Monday the 21st; by which time the bill would have been three weeks before the public.

Lord EDRINGTON requested of Lord Chandos to state what were his intentions : he thought so courteous an answer on the part of Lord Althorp demanded a frank and courteous return. The Marquis of CHANDOS—" The course I mean to pursue is this,— if the second reading of the bill be delayed beyond the day specified by the noble Lord opposite, I shall feel it my duty to exercise my right, as a member of Parliament, and oppose the proceedings of his Majesty's :Ministers, either in going into a committee of supply, or in carrying the Dititiny Bills." Sir JAMES GRAIIAM--.." The noble Marquis shall not long want an opportunity of putting his menace in practice. I now, Sir, move the order of the day for the third reading of the Mutiny Bill." (Cheers and laughter.) A member intimated, that in consequence of an arrangement entered into with Mr. WYNN, it was understood that the Military Mutiny Bill would not be read a third time until Friday. Sir JAMES GRAHAM said, in that case lie would let the Military Mu- tiny Bill stand over for a day, iu order to make inquiries into the arrangement alluded to. Sir FRANCIS BVRDETT was appealed to respecting an amendment he )tad intended to propose on the Mutiny Bill ; but Sir FRANCIS would mot help Lord Chandos—he declared that no act of his should interpose to delay the principal object of the deliberation of the House.

A member of the Marquis's party said, his opposition to Ministers should be open and fair. If the Marquis sought to impede them by so extraordinary an exercise of his privileges as a member, he should most certainly vote against him.

Sir EDWARD KNATCIIBVLL deprecated the tone of asperity that charac- terized the conversation.

Sir JAMES GRAIIAM--•-•" The noble Marquis has taken a course which may be attended with great inconvenience—with great danger even. The Mutiny Bill is very nearly expired. I hope there has been nothing in my language or behaviour that my sense of public duty did not fully justify. I intend to pursue my duty firmly, but certainly without wish- ing to offend any one.

Mr. Gour.nunx thought, as the one bill was put off, the other also might be put off. In condusion, the Marine Mutiny Bill was read a third time, and passed.

The debate on Tuesday n-as opened by Mr. O'CoNNELL, who moved the adjournment on the previous night. Mr. O'Connell rose to give leis most decided and anxious support to the measure. It deserved support, because it was a large, a liberal, and wise measure. He would even call it a generous measure, and sure he was it would be effectual. It was wise, because it was large ; and if Ministers had offered less, his convic- tion was, that the country would have compelled them to grant more. If they had attempted to give more, they would have been totally defeated in Parliament. They should, therefore, not only have his vote, but whatever influence he, possessed elsewhere. True it was, there were certain objections to it : he was a Radical Reformer upon conviction, and this bill would not give Radical Reform. lie was an advocate for universal suffrage, and this bill communicated no such general right. He was a friend to the shortening of the duration of Parliaments, and this bid professed to make-no beneficial change in that respect. He was in favour of the vote by ballot, and the bill was in this respect also defective. Still it was a liberal and extensive measure ; and it would demonstrate one of two things—either that further Reform was not necessary, by proving that greater extension of suffrage and 'vote brballot .would' be of no advantage, or it would giVe the vote by ballot, without disturbance, safely, and certainly. As a Radical Reformer, therefore, he heartily accepted it.

As far as it related to Ireland, it did not carry its own wise principle into effect. Ireland, to seine extent, was badly treated by it ; and Mr. O'Connell could not say that the Administration, to whom he was grateful for this measure, had acted well there. On the contrary, it had been unwise, arbitrary, and arrogant. Therefore, if he consulted his personal feelings only, he might find fault ; but the measure was too advantageous as a whole to allow him to be captious, and he sunk every minor consideration in his anxiety to obtain this great boon for the British community.

As related to England, it had a double operation—upon counties, and upon bo- roughs. As to the first, it not only continued the forty-shilling freeholders in their present right of voting, but it extended the franchise to copyholders of 10/. a year— a most substantial advantage. It was most just that copyholders should have a voice, for although they held by the Court Roll, their property was as valuable and as saleable as if it were freehold. But the measure did not step there, and wisely ; what lawyers called chattel interests, were allot:eel to be represented, for hitherto a man might have a lease of a thousand acres for a thousand years, but he could not vote, although his next neighbour, who owned, perhaps, a single acre upon an old life, was permitted to exercise his suffrage. The bill would thus add two numerous and influential classes to the elective body; and, in this respect, was highly benefi.. cial. It was a mere cavil, on the part of those who complained, that the Privy Council ought not to have the power to divide counties, and it was an objection that had never been urged in Ireland. The experiment was not novel, or if it were it would be harmless.

The measure, as it related to English counties, was, therefore, an ur.. mixed good. Mr. O'Connell rejoiced at the prospect of an increased constituency, and the addition to the county members, who were least of all revolutionary. As to the boroughs, he was delighted at their pro- posed treatment—the knife had been applied unsparingly, but with no unskilful hand, to the corrupt and rotten part.

What was the reproach of the House, and the complaint of the people ? Was that reproach and that complaint imaeinary ? What teas the theory of the Constitu- tion ? When men talked to him of the new Constitution attempted to be intro. e d, he asked them what was the old? Was it this—that the mound of Old Sa- ru m, or the park at Caton. should be represented ? What lawyer would dare to as- sert that such was the old Constitution of England He recollected a circumstance which happened some yens ago in one of the courts of law in Ireland. At the Union, certain close boroughs were disfranchised, and, by a precedent by no means to be imitated, compensation was given, not to the voters who lost their suffrages, but to the patron, who arrogated to himself the right of selling them to the highest bidder. The borough of Askeatun was one of them, and 13,0001. was given by Par. liament to Massey Dawson, as compensation. Shortly afterwards, his brother, the other member, claimed half, and brought an action in one of the Irish courts to recover it. No sooner had the plaintiff 's counsel opened his case, than the learned judge on the bench told him, that he must be nonsuited ; and further added—" Sir, I have a great respect for you personally, but 1 must tell you that your client is a most audacious man to dare to come into court with such an action. (Hear, hear!) And yet it afterwards appeared, from a statement which he heard made in the Court of Chancery, that this very judge,together with the father of the honourable member for Limerick, were the trustees named in a marriage-settlement, by which it was - provided that the nomination to the borough of Tralee should be set aside as a pro. vision for the younger children of Sir E. Dennie. (Hear, hear !) And yet this was called the old Constitution.

Sir C. WETHERELL—" Oh ! but that was in Ireland."

Mr. O'Comist.t. rejoined— Be it so ; still it was a can in point, and one which he had a right to quote on the present occasion, especially as there had been a similar testamentary disposal of property in England by a late nobleman, in favour of his daughter's husband.

A great deal had been said of the borough possessions of the Dukes of Devonshire and Bedford, and the Marquises of Lansdowne and Hert- ford, and of their admirable faculty of discovering young gentlemen of genius, and rewarding them with a seat in Parliament. But was that the Constitution ?

What wasthe first order of the House, before even the King's Speech was delivered —before the Commons were called into the presence of that monarch who deserved the love of his people better than all his predecessors ? (Much cheering.) Was it not that neither Peer nor Prelate should interfere with the freedom of election ? Was it then to be endured that gentlemen should tell them in that House, that the Duke of Newcastle had the right of appointing a member of the Commons House of Parliament ? Should gentlemen tell him, in the teeth cf that House, that the giving that power to a Lord was the " Old Constitution ?" The hypocrisy of that resolu- tion was theirs, or they were parties to it. If any gentleman attempted to violate that resolution clandestinely, it was the duty of the Speaker to defeat the attempt. But if the violation of it was, as gentlemen insisted, the "Old Constitution," he would say, let the question be regularly brought before the House, and let the reso- lution be rescinded. (Cheers.) But let them not be told that a bill to enforce its observance, whilst it stood upon their books, was a revolution.

The member for Callington had the other night become quite poetical upon the subject, and, on weeping over the untimely fate of his own borough, called it a violet ! (Lauyhter.)

Any thing argumentative, and sterling, and strong, might reasonably have been expected from that honourable member ; but who could have dreamed of his turning poet, and, in his fondness for his constituents, and the inspiration of his muse, mis- taking a rotten borough for a violet ?

Others had talked of robbery—robbery of the borough patrons.

He had never heard of a royal charter, grant, or deed to any nobleman, conferring on that nobleman the right of nominating members to sit in that House. (Hear, hear !) No ; but lie had heard of such grants being made to the people. He knew that the people had been robbed of those grants, and lie liked this act because it laid hold of the spoliators. The seizure was with those who now cried out so lustily "Stop thief!" (Cheers.) Some delusion was practised upon this subject in the House; the matter was mystified by one gentleman quoting what another gentle- man had said upon some other occasion, or what some deceased stateman of great name had been reported to have said some years ago : but he would tell the House that the people out of doors were in the habit of talking common sense, and that this was the language which they held to the borough-proprietors—" You have taken away our rights, you have usurped our franchises. you have robbed us of our property, and do what you will, you shall disgorge !" (Cheers.).

Thus much for the nomination boroughs ; he might, however, be told, that Caine, Tavistock, and Knaresborough still remained, and that this was Unjust.

Now he bad been intrusted with a petition against the return for Caine ; and the petitioner would doubtless have succeeded, but a committee of that House de- cided that Caine was a corporation, and that there could not, therefore, by any pos- sibility, be more than thirty-six voters there. Now what would this bill effect for Caine ? Caine would be thrown open, and the election would no longer be in a close corporation. (Cheers.) It had been said that nevertheless the members for Caine would not be changed. He did not know bow that might be, bat he was awe that every gentleman who bad heard or who had read that beautiful display of talent and eloquence which had proceeded from the honourable member for Caine—that admirable speech, which contained as much ancient law as would have adorned an antiquary, which was strewed with the most beautiful flowers of literature, and which shone with all the ornaments which grace and elegance and learning could impart,—all who heard that speech would agree that the honourable member had a claim upon Caine which, now that it was freed from its former evils, it would be impossible to disallow, (Cheers.) What need that honourable member now care

for the influence of the Marquis of Lansdowne ? By-the-by, this brought to his recollection the speech of the honourable and learned member for Drogheda {111r. North) last night. They all remembered how that honourable and learned member, when he at for a rotten borough, and was on the other side of the House, hardly ever opened his lips, and when he did, spoke scarcely above his breath, and always Voted with Ministers ; but they had all seen how he threw himself forward now— bow loudly and independently he talked now that he sat on this side the House and for Drogheda, and was disencumbered of the influence of a patron, (Hear, and a laugh.) Oh ! God help those who would creep into that House. They said that they stooped, and that they were not ashamed to stoop. Out upon this saying ! they did not stoop—they could not stoop—for they were already bent so low that it was impossible they could bend lower. (Hear !)

It must be very amusing to the people of Ireland to observe, that every House of Commons gravely resolved the.. no Prelate should interfere in the elections.

He would give up all Reform if he did not prove at that bar that they had among them a member for a borough, who had been nominated by a prelate. The mem- ber to whom he alluded was the late Chancellor of the Exchequer, the representa- tive for the borough of Armagh. (Hear. and laughter.) Yes ; and as soon as the right honourable gentleman, the nominee of the right reverend prelate, had been -safely returned by the influence of the right reverend prelate, the Orangemen and the Presbyterians, and others of the borough, met together, and joined in the work of burning the right honourable gentleman in effigy. And this was the old and much- lauded Constitution (Cheers and laughter.) Ohl if the honourable and learned member for Boronehhridge had only been as pathetic as he was comical—if he had been, like Niobe, all tears—and what an admirable representative of Niobe he would have made ! (Laughter)—they should have been almost washed away in the flood which would have been shed at the notion of destroying this venerable old Constitu- tion. (Hear and laughter.)

There were other boroughs to be thrown open, which it was impossible to speak of in a merry mood.

Gentlemen are aware that there is a class of persons who crowd around a new member of Parliament (and they crowded around himself, little as he had to do with England), and ask him, does he know of a third man ? (Laughter.) They say that they have got two to stand, and if they could only find a third man, lie would be sere to get In. (Great laughter.) Was that the old Constitution, so much talked of by those conscientious, religious, scrupulous gentlemen. who would ask a man his creed at that table before they would consent to his sitting amongst them ? He would ask the learned member for 13oroughbridge—and he assured him that of no man's integrity and worth had he a higher opinion—he would ask him, as a consci. entious man, as a responsible being, would he give his voice for the preservation of a system which opened such a field for profligacy, corruption, and the violation of the privileges of that House every six years, almost every year ? Would any one— at least, would any one out of that House—deny that such was the case in all the half-open boroughs ? Nobody. Would-any one in that House deny it ? Certainly, no one ; except those who in sophistical speeches, which say nothing distinctly, and deceive the speakers themselves, insinuate what they dared not assert. (Cheers.) Who would deny that the votes of those burgesses were sold as oxen were sold in Smithfield, and that the seats which represent them were sold and let as the stalls in Leadenhall market ? Did any man suppose that the people of England would not resist and destroy that system of corruption ? He did not mean by any sudden violence, bat by the force of opinion rising gradually, calmly, and irresistibly, as a giant rising from his sleep. (Cheers.)

It had been said that the Bill would produce a fantastic variety of

voters— Was there no variety of voters now ? In one place the election was in the mayor and aldermen ; in another in the mayor, aldermen, and jurats; in another in the mayor, aldermen, jurats, and freemen ; in some places men voted by tenure, in others by scot and lot, and in others members were returned by potwaltopers. Why, there was not more diversity in the shades and colours in the West Indies than in the present elective franchise of England. The proposed measure reduced it to uniformity and simplicity, by giving votes to all houseb olders of 101. and it took away none of the present votes. It disfranchised only the non-residents, who had already disfranchised themselves by non-residence. This had been called an anomaly ; but why had the Ministers taken this course ? It was because they thought that property ought to be spared wherever it was pos- sible, and because they had very wisely made their experiment as narrow as they could consistently with the great object they had in view. (Cheers.)

Mr. Croker had complained that the Bill gave but one member to Brighton, with 24,000 inhabitants, whilst Tavistock returned two. But it was a fallacy to suppose that the Bill gave any thing to Tavistock.

Sir ClIARLES WETILEItg1.1.—" Yes, it does." Mr. O'Cormer.i. thanked Sir Charles for the interruption. It did give something to Tavistock—it threw the borough open, and created 1000 electors where there were at present but 24. (Cheers.) Should he not be wasting the time of the House if be were to go into those details by which every one must know that he could prove the system of representation to

be full of the most fanciful inequalities 1 The truth was, that the ancient system bad been dilapidated and disfigured by those who now pretended to venerate it ; and the Government were endeavouring to build up again the old and simple fabric of

the Constitution. The gentlemen on the other side had in some cases destroyed the very foundations of that fabric, and left no basis whereon astructure could be raised; but wherever they had left even the ruins of the ancient edifice, the Government had endeavoured to build up again upon such remnants, scanty as they were, which bad escaped the lawless hands of the spoliators. (Cheers.)

The measure had been denominated one of corporation robbery.

- Now, being a lawyer, and having a little of the curiosity which belonged to his profession, he had gone through the list of disfranchised boroughs with the view of

ascertaining how many of them were corporations. He had found that out of the sixty only sixteen were corporations ; and the most comical result of his inquiry was, that neither Boronehbridge nor .Appleby were, or ever had been, corporations. (Hear, hear!) Then, again, they had been told that the bill was a seizure of fran- chises and of the rights of the people. He should be glad to know if the gentlemen Who held thin language meant to assist him in his endeavour to carry the repeal of theUnion (cheers and laughter); for if they thought that the Legislature had no right to take away franchises, what did they think of two hundred boroughs disfranchised by one single act of Parliament ? Yet this was done by the Union. And were the voters tried and convicted ? Ob, no : so far from it, that forty of them were so in. =cent, that it was thought right to give 13,000/. of the public money to each. it was acknowledged that the people so disfranchised were innocent and guiltless ; and he would ask the honourable member for Tamworth, who had called the present bill atrocious, and the noble Lord who had called it iniquitous, whether they meant to join with him in repairing those acts of greater atrocity and of greater iniquity. (Cheers and laughter.)

It had been said, that should the bill pass, Tavistock would still remain a close borough.

Now he had the fullest confidence in the character of the noble house of Bedford; but he agreed that the people ought not to be satisfied on such a subject with the cha- racter of any one. But hadthey no other security against Tavistock remaining a close borough ? Let him ask what sympathy such aborough—if it should happen to escape— could meet with in a reformed Parliament ? When he first came into that House, there was a Question of disfranchising a certain borough, and some opposed the disfran- chisement of that particular borough, on the ground that there were many other boroughs equally guilty. On that occasion, he had taken the liberty of comparing the delinquent borough to a wolf which, separated from the rest of the herd, had fallen into our hands ; and he bad asked whether they would allow the one wolf to escape because they could not lay hold of the rest ? But what would be the case noiv, if, when all the other close boroughs were destroyed, Tavistock alone re- mained? They would have destroyed the whole herd of wolves with one solitary ex- ception, and the surviving one would be within their clutches. Oh, God help the lonely one in a reformed Parliament ! (Laughter.) From the gravity of the lawyer to the merry cheer of the fox-hunter, they would see what a tallyho they should have against poor Tavistock. (Cheers.)

The benefits of the bill would be essentially felt in Scotland.

It required neitherlaw, nor spectacles, nor second sight, to perceive that it would work a great improvement in the representation of that country. (A Scotch member exclaimed, " No, non No 1—why take Edinburgh as an instance. There were hirty.three censtituents ie that great eity,tuad this pleasure would turn the thirty- three into twelve thousand. Was that no improvement? the thirty-three present electors were represeated by one, Wlci received more of the public money than any other representative of sae hundred and twenty thousand oeople that had ever sat in that House. He would buck the honourable member for Edinburgh against any other representative of the people for doing nothing but receiving money and sign- ing receipts. (Laughter.) The majority of the voters of Scotland had neither tans nor Income, and possessed their franchise solely by virtue of a piece of parchments, which has not even the dignity of a seal, nor even of a bit of wax. (Laughter:a (" Hear, hear, hear !" from Sir Charles Wetherell, followed by great laughter.) It was apity that the member for Boroughbridge, who had wept so piteously over charters, and who had held up to their indignation one Nat Lee for having said that a charter was only a piece of parchment with a seal attached to it,—it was a pity that that honourable and learned member, who had laid so much stress upon. the seal of a charter, had not recollected that ;he Scotch voter did not rise to the dignity of a seal. Happy Englishmen, whose m teats were secured with wax ! The only gentleman who bad ventured to defend the parchment system, was the noble Lord (Leveson Gower) the member for anti:erten:1. With the wand, as it were, est' a German wizard (Laughter) the noble Lord had called up the shade of Fletcher al' Saltoun, to testify against the improvement of his country. But Fletcher must be very close indeed in his grave, if, when he heard that a free representation were about to be given to Scotland, he did not turn in that grave. (Laughter.)

Mr. O'Connell went into some calculations to show that Ireland had been in this measure treated with less generosity than either England or Scotland.

Out of the twenty-eight counties in England, to which it was proposed to give two additional members each, fifteen of them possessed a population less than that of the county of Antrim ; nineteen of them less than that of Down ; twenty-two of them less than that of Tipperary ; and there was not any one of them, with the ex- ception of Lancashire and Yorkshire, that had any thing like the population of the county of Cork. He was of opinion that it would be well, out of the sixty-two mem- bers that remained as in bank, to assign two additional members to Antrim, Down, Cork, Galway, Kerry, Mayo, Tipperary, and Tyrone. He would draw a line with regard to population at 21)0,000. There were seven or eight counties in Ireland, with a population less than that amouitt ; but those counties that had more than 200,000 had a right to additional members. For similar reasons, he would give an additional member to Galway, which was larger than one of the three to which an. additional member was proposed to be given, and to Kilkenny, which was

larger than any of them.

In making those observations—in urging those objections—he did not wish to to at all considered as arguing against the bill. He was determined to vote for that bill, even in its present shape. (Cheers.)

Mr. O'Connell said he was almost tempted to make out a catalogue raisonne of the orators in favour of rotten boroughs.

He could not avoid remarking, that the most distingaished amongst them were not the most disinterested—that their generosity was of a nature akin to a sordid selfishness—that they straggled not for their privileges as freemen, but for their pro- perty as traders; and they taunted the noble Lord opposite with his inability 'Oa examine them concerning that property. The people complained of a great grievance, and those who were advocates and representatives of the close boroughs furnished in their conduct the proof of its existence. Instead of following the example of a noble Duke and Marquis in the other House, and of two honourable gentlemen his that House, the representatives of Gatton and Old Sarum resisted a measure which was intended for the benefit of the people, because it was not for the benefit of Gatton and Old Sarum. Now the people would return their taunt upon there with interest. It had been said that the close boroughs had brought exceedingly

clever men into the House.

Sir Robert Peel had exhibited to them a plan of boroughmongering glory. He commenced with Mr. Dunning, and ended with Lord Liverpool—bless the mark? 4'4' the entire catalogue of those great men was removed—if all the great statesmen who had passed through the filthy baptismal font of the boroughmongering system had never existed—he did not think that time country would be at all the worse for that. One of those persons was the late life. Canning. He was put amongst those illustrious characterswhich the boroughmongering system had placed there—he who, while he supported Catholic emancipation, opposed the just rights of the Pro- testant Dissenters. Upon what principle could he, a Protestant, have opposed their rights ? The name of Burke, too, was included in this baroug,hmongering galaxy. An exceedingly ultra Tory he was ; there could not be higher, and one of the men who thought that the people should be contented if the rich were comfortable and happy. What did the people of England care or know about Mr. Burke t They paid his pension still ; and he was certain that if they canvassed Haglund round, it would be found, that if that pension were given up, the people of England would gladly give a receipt in full for the eulogium of merits. He it was for whom this epitaph was composed long before his death:-

" Here lies our good Edmund, whose genius was such, We scarcely can praise it or blame it too much,' Who, born for the universe, narnmed his mind, And to party gave up what was meant for mankind." The boroughmongering system, according to its advocates, would seem to possess a fairy door for letting men of talents and intelligence into that House ; but was it not true that it also sent there a great number of dull, stupid, drowsy members, who possessed no talent in debate, who had no regard for the interests or rights of the people, and who rose in eminence only in proportion as the country sunk ? It was a mere fallacy to say, that the boroughmongering system sent men of talent to that House. In a century about half-a-dozen of such Might be found—they appeared at intervals, only like the theatrical stars which went down from London amongst the provincial theatres ; and the entire of the play was Hamlet, while Polemics and all the other characters were forgotten. But then it was said that the system had worked well. He would ask them to inquire from the agricultural population whether such was the case—whether such a fact was reflected from the fires whic'a had lately blazed throughout their counties, and whether such would be the state- ment they would receive if they Inquired from the unfortunate men who filled their gaols on account of the disturbances ia the country ? Did the Wilful Trespass Act, which gave the magistrates such dominion over the poor, evidence the working well of the system? Were the Game-laws a proof of such a fact ?

He would give a specimen of the working of the boroughmongering

system— From returns which had been made with regard to divisions on questions of retrenchment in 1822, it appeared that of 19 representatives for boroughs with a population under 500, all voted against retrenchment ; of the representatives for boroughs with a population above 500, and not exceeding 1,000, twelve voted for retrenchment, and thirty-three against it ; of the representatives for boroughs with 4,000 inhabitants, seventeen were for retrenchment, and forty-four against it ; and of the representatives for boroughs with a population beyond 5,000, sixty-six voted for retrenchment, and forty-seven against it. (Hear, hear !) In fine, the working of the system had given us our national debt, and bound us over to a tame acquiescence in all the enormities of foreign despotism. arr. ('Connell was much cheered at the close as well as in the progress of his speech.) Mr. ATTIVCAOD said, the mercantile interests were most inadequately ' represented in the House, and this bill would aggravate the evil—it

would neither represent intelligence nor property.

The Lord Advocate of Scotland had said, that within the period of the last twenty-five years—a period coincident with the existence of the Edinburgh Reriew- a vast mass of intelligence had been generated, and that the Constitution was to to adapted to this intelligence, without the House troubling itself about what had been well adapted to the times of the Tudors and Plantagenets. Now, did the learned member suppose that the plan proposed could represent this prodigious mass of new intelligence ? Mr. Attwood, on the contrary, maintained that the new members to be brought into the House would not even compensate for those that were to be ejected. The wealthy merchants of Liverpool, and of other great commercial

cities, and the rich manufacturers from the manufacturing towns and districts, now entered that House by doors which it was proposed to close against them.

It was a mistake to suppose that the great mercantile interests were served by members chosen from popular boroughs or counties.

Westminster sent no traders nor merchants, but sailors, soldiers, and politicians; and he denied that the four members of the City of London were persons calcu- lated to speak the sentiments, or defend the interests, or explain the views and feelings, of thebigher classes of merchants. It was such places as Callington and Breather, Wendover and Old Sarum, that sent men into that House that repre- sented the great mercantile interests. The bill would destroy an actual whilst it Introduced a mere nominal representation of interests.

Sir JAMES G-RAHAM replied to the taunts of inconsistency thrown Out against the Ministry by Sir Robert Peel ; who, while friendly, as he bad declared himself, to a certain degree of Reform, was yet content to sit in the Cabinet with the Duke of Wellington, who had not only de- e:hired against all Reform, but had declared, that, looking to the repre- sentation a priori, it was impossible that any plan so near approaching to perfection could have been imagined. Sir James then went on to de. fend the plan of the Ministry from the imputation of partiality and in- Considerateness which had been imputed to it. A great deal had been said about so drawing the line as to leave Caine, Tavistock, and Knares- borough untouched ; but had the objectors stopped to ask themselves what must have been the consequence of interfering with them ? If the line had not fallen Without Caine, they world have been obliged to disfran- chise eleven other boroughs—viz. Mahon, Newport, Andover, Grantham, Devizes, Hertford, St. Alban's, Dartmouth, Bridgewater, Pomfret, and Chippenham, each of which was smaller than Caine. (Hear, hear !) If they had taken as the line of dis- tinction the population of the borough of Knaresborough, they would have had to dis- franchise, wholly or partially, twenty-three other boroughs, including Calne, Tarts- tock, Ripon, Chichester, Peterborough, Shrewsbury, Tewkesbury, and Barnstaple, which were inferior in extent to Knaresburough. (Hear, hear!) Therefore it was that Caine, Tavistock, and Knaresborough were not interfered with. He, however, was quite sure that, let Ministers have drawn the line wherever they would, objec- tions of a similar nature would have been advanced by those who were unfriendly to Deform. (Hear, hear !) They had adopted that course which appeared to them to be the most desirable, and to Interfere the least, consistently with the plan which they bad in view, with the rights of individuals. Their plan was to go as nearly as pos- sible to the absolute excision of proprietary boroughs, and with that view they had fixed the line at 2.000 inhabitants. Beyond that boundary they did not think it right to go; and he was satisfied, that, by thus acting, they were likely to effect their pur- pose with as little Inconvenient change as possible. Again, if they looked at the tax returns, they would find that, in the GO boroughs to be disfranchised, there were 1,471 houses rated at 101., while in Sheffield alone there were 1,556 houses so rated— that was more than 100 houses above all the 60 boroughs. (hear, hear!) There were 47 boroughs which Ministers proposed to leave with one member each, in which the number of houses rated at 101. was 6,3:3; while in the parish of Marylebone there were 10,421 houses rated at and above that slim, being nearly one-third more than was contained in all these boroughs. (Hear, hear !) Sir James observed in conclusion, that it was safer to concede to public opinion, when generally entertained and strongly expressed, than to at- tempt its forcible suppression. He had been asked whether he considered the proposed measure as a panacea for all evils. He did not believe it would so prove. (" Hear," from the Opposition.) But when Parliament should be freely chosen by the people, though it might not work for them all the benefits which they expected, yet they would know that all

would be clone for them that was possible; and they would then be more tranquil, more contented, and more peaceable; the safety of the country would be put ou • safer basis, and he knew none so safe as the extension of the suffrage to the most

intelligent and industrious classes of the community. The proposed measure would strengthen the monarchy, and it would deprive the violently inclined of the means of converting to their views numbers of discontented persons. (Cheers.) Mr. T. LEFROY, who was very hoarse, and ., whose audience was very noisy and impatient, was understood to speak to the following effect.

By the Constitution, the House was composed of knights, burgesses, and citizens ; and it was not according to the principles of the Constitution to disturb that balance. If the balance in the House were destroyed, the next step would be to destroy the balance of the legislature ; and thus the proposed innovation would lead to the annihilation of the House of Lords. If corruption existed, there were

already existing legal means to remove it. h ...13 t I: a Sir JOSEPH YORKE noticed a "singular" circumstance : a Whig Ad- ministration framed the Bill of Rights which declared the House of Commons to be the true representatives of the people, and it was a Whig Administration which now proposed to remodel the House—he would not say to revolutionize it. (Hear, hear!) That there were defects in the present state of the representation, be was not prepared to deny. He thought it highly unfit that five or six Peers, who had repre- sentatives in the House of Commons, should, by combining together, have it in their power to exercise an undue influence over the Government ; but he could never consent to disfranchise sixty boroughs, because they did not happen to fall within the noble Paymaster's line of march. (A laugh ) The honourable member for Wareham had stated the other night, that if he had had only nine months' warning, he would have undertaken to supply the deficiency of population in his borough. (A laugh.) Re believed that the borough which he represented would not come within the line of march ; and though he did not possess the same Malthusian power as the honourable member for Wareham—though he was not gifted in the same extraordinary way—yet he and his worthy colleague would have done their best to enable their.„constituents to send representatives to Parliament. (Great laughter.) Mr. BETHEL'. felt that the desire of Reform pervaded every class, and he felt also assured that she House had entirely lost the confidence of the people : still he could not approve of the measure which had been proposed for the purpose of satisfying the demands of the public, and for conciliating their lost affections. He did not suppose that noble families would not find their way Into the House by force of rank and character ; nor was he afraid that persons in the humble ranks of life, who were endowed with great abilities, would not be able, by their own buoyancy, to find their proper places : but he wished to learn whether the measure could, in its present shape, be carried into effect, without affecting a body of gen- tlemen of talent and knowledge—persons connected with the manufaCturing and mercantile interests, who could now readily find their way into the House. But bow were such men, who might be well known in a metropolis, to make their cha- racter known in a borough ? There were able men, too, who shrunk from publicity. He was not yet convinced that even the Government itself—he meant the means required for the conduct of it—might not be materially diminished if this measure were carried into execution to the extent which was proposed. The House must be prepared to legislate not merely for the sunshine, but for the storm and the tempest; and great and wise measures might be introduced, for which the country might be highly indebted to the Minister who brought it forward, yet that Minister might not dare to present himself as a candidate for a proper place—even a university which he had adorned in his youth and honoured in his manhood ; and the King's Government might be left without an important officer in that House. (Hear, hear !) Mr. PRAED went over the arguments of the former speakers against the measure. The learned gentleman said, he objected to the general plan of the bill, which included a number of monstrous anomalies ; and he believed that it would expose the House of Peers to danger. Looking to the magnitude and variety of the subjects discussed in the House and the committees above stairs, he contended that there was hardly a suffi- cient number. He would prefer, instead of the disfranchising clause, that the franchise should be restored to places which formerly enjoyed it, or extended to several districts at present unrepresented. He saw no reason why the several interests of the empire should not be directly represented there,—why Jamaica, or the island of Barbadoes, should not have their members,—which was not less objectionable than the present measure. He should like to ask the noble representative of the University of Cambridge, what Objection he could advance against—by way of balancing the great demeicracy- infusion- tendency of the bill.-doubling the number of the mesabers.few the twit Universities? Such an arrangement would, he could assure him, be calculated te allay the well-founded apprehensions of his ecclesiastical constituents. Ii; had been said that the bill was but a just concession to the demands of the people, whose excitement it would abate ; but he maintained, oil the contrary, that it was not what the people asked for. They prayed for universal suffrage, for the vote by ballot, for a reduction of the public burthns quite incompatible with the public service—desiring the difference to be made good from the revenues of the Church; but in no instance did they -pray for such a measure as the present. They would not be satisfied by it. Neither would Sir. Bentham and his numerous disciples, nor would that large class of whoia the.honourable member for Preston might be considered the representative. An, it was true, openly approved of it. But why ? Because they considered it the fires step towards further changes. The reforming public was told by its leaders —"Ac. cept of this for the present, that we may Ct.! more readily wrest more by-and-by. Put this in your pocket as the first instalment of the debt so long due to us. The bill of Ministers will enable us to shake off the Old Man of the mountain : all the rest in good time." (Hear!) This was the reason that the bill was received with open arms out of doors, and not that it went to satisfy the democratic cravings of the public.

He believed that the distress of the country contributed in some de• gree to the Reforming excitement, but that reviving industry and em. ployment would supply the remedy.

It had been said that the excitement had been brought about by Ministers them- selves, to favour the progress of their Reform measure. He did not credit this as. sertion : be should " -- as anon believe with kind Sir Roger, That old Moll White took wing with cat and broomstick, And raised the last night's thunder,"

as that the right honourable gentlemen opposite had raised the present excitement. What, then, was the cause of all this clamour about Reform ? The cause, in his mind, had been wholly overlooked by all those who had preceded him in the debate, and would be found, he believed, in the excitement consequent upon the carrying of the Catholic question. (Great laughter and cries of Oh!) Much of Mr. Praed's speech was inaudible, from the impatience of the House.

Sir FRANCIS BURDETT and Mr. PERCEVAL rose when Mr. Praed sat down ; but the latter being very earnest to address the House, Sir Francis gave way. The House, however, would not be addressed ; so Mr. PER-. CEVAL was fain for the moment to content himself with moving the ad- journment. Some conversation took place on the question, whether the adjournment should not be made to Thursday. Lord ALTRORP seemed anxious rather to continue the present sitting. Ultimately the adjourn- ment was carried, with an apparent understanding that the debate should close on Wednesday.

Mr. PERCEVAL opened, on Wednesday, to a very meagre and inat. tentive audience. He spoke with great vehemence of manner, and en- forced his doctrine with many hard blows on the table ; but the other honourable gentlemen were so noisy, that much of Mr. Perceval's do. quence was lost.

The Secretary for Ireland complained of the opponents of the bill for having de- signated it as revolutionary. He wished to know whether the threats of force that accompanied the measure, and were intended to facilitate its success, were not re- volutionary ? Intimidation had been resorted to by honourable members and by the press, and if the measure were carried, it would only be carried by force. Indi-

viduals who in secret feared the consequences of the bill, were induced publicly to support it under the influence of threats. See the language used by that vile and profligate thing the daily press of England—he repeated. that corrupt and profligate thing the daily press, of which we were the slaves. When he spoke thus in ge.

neral terms of the vile and profligate press, he could not stop to make distinctions; but those whose consciences acquitted them of the charge would be the first to thank him for having made it thus extensively,—not more extensively than it was deserved. Ile was not afraid of the press ; he thanked God he was not, and would therefore speak boldly what he thought of it. He admitted that the rotten boroughs were an apparent anomaly, but then the anomaly was only apparent ; and lie illustrated the empiricism of those who wished to remove a defect which only their want of corn. prehensiveness had conjured up, by a very ingenious allegory. Ile would suppose two medical men : one, whom lie should call Mr. New-light, educated at the London University ; and the other, Mr. Bigot, educated at Cam. bridge, conversing on the subject of a gentleman's eye. • 0 1 Mr. Bigot," says New- light, "what a had condition that gentleman's eye is in I He has an anomaly in his eye." "I really don't understand," observes the other, " what you mean by an anomaly." " Why, don't you see that all the objects, at the back of his eye, are

turned upside down. That is an anomaly—and out his eye must come." They all knew very well that objects were thus represented, topsy-turvy, on the hack of the

eye, and that circumstance was explained by the laws of refraction ; but no person

had yet been able to assign a satisfactory reason why, when we use our eyes, every object appears in its natural and proper place. Mr. New-light would, however,

take out the eye, because lie could not account for the phenomenon ; and, in the same manner, the enemies of boroughs would annihilate them, because they were ignorant of the system of which they formed a part. He defended the nomination boroughs, because of the benefit they conferred on a member of Parliament who mistrusted the strength of his own mind—who feared that he might be wrought on by the calls or re- presentations of his friends.

To such a one, nothing could be a greater security than to represent one of dila latter class of boroughs. A large constituency was very often as likely to lead a

man from the strict line of his duty as much as the patronage of a rotten borough : a representative was as likely to be warped from the performance of a conscientious duty by the efforts of a mob, as by the influence of a patron. He drew a terrible picture of the profligacy of the House : for while he spoke more than doubtingly of the failure of the Ministerial measure, he at the same time contended, that Three honest men, and bold men, in that House, might save the constitution. Men who cared not for the abuse of the press—men who were nurtured in that honest fear of God, and in that honest fearlessness of men, which best enabled in. dividuals to serve their country, might restore the British constitution, and do that which the friends of this measure declared to be so much wanted and needed,-- namely, bring back to the House of Commons the respect of the nation. But now their own members were allowed to disparage the constitution, and to rail at the House, whilst they allowed themselves to be bullied by the press, and were cowards before it. (Hear !)

Mr. D. W. HARVEY said, Mr. Perceval had already the seal of his future conduct to his country impressed on him, young as he was, by the pension from its funds which he had for nearly twenty years re. ceived. (" Hear, hear rtfrom the Opposition.) The cheers with which his observation was received came, he supposed, from gentlemen who were, or soon expected to be, in the similar enviable condition.

If anything more than another disgusted the people of England, it was the testi- monies which had been given of the perversion of the means, and of the misma-

nagement of the resources of the nation. (Cheers.) That those who prospered under

the present system should take a prominent and lively interest in preserving it, and in opposing all reform, was not surprising. They had risen after one another in eager and rapid succession, and they had advanced every argument in support of their case which perverted ingenuity could devise. When they stated that the origin and design of this bill was to revolutionize the country, he must say, that if gentlemen looked for arguments calculated to produce revolutionary feelings, they were only to be found in the speethes of those who opposed the measure. With all that high and enthusiastic religious feeling, of whichMr. eercevai was the depo- sitary—the meek depositary—what language of reproach, what terms of reproha. Don, had he not used in speaking of this measure ? He would meet all those whe had spoken so severely of this would meet them with language es.beld, ea

their own, and -say,, "deli fe a revolationary measure." (Cheers.) Ire repeated--; a glorious revolutionary measure. What was its object and drift t Why, to bring back the constitution of this country to its original design—do place things in the situation in which they originally stood, and from which they had been too. long removed. (Hear, hear!) In allusion to the speech of. Colonel Tyrrel, delivered 011 Tuesday, Mr. Harvey denied in the moat pointed manner that he had aver advocated either Radical or Republican doctrines: he did not telieve that, with the exception perhaps of a few secluded scholars, there was a man in England who wished for a republic. The most republican doctrines he lad ever heard uttered, had been in the House of Commons, in the -erratic address of Sir Charles Wetherell, and the unintelligible harangue of the member for Dublin University-; speeches whiCh, if pronounced .out of doors, would have been visited, or at least should have been visited, by the tender mercies of the Attorney-General.

He defended the line of disfranchisement laid down by Ministers, and ridiculed the opposition to it. That opposition it would have met, stop wherever it might. If Ministers had cut off all boroughs having less than a dozen of voters, they would have been beset by Mr. Shelley and Mr. Hope—for Gatton had only five. One great fault most certainly the bill had—it did not say a word of compensation.

Had there been a box placed in the Treasury, for the purpose of receiving anony- mous communications as to the value of the interests of certain boroughs, many members who now so strenuously upheld the privileges of the rotten boroughs, would be silent as to those privileges—we should have heard nothing of their con- stitutional scruples. He should be glad to bear of the principle of compensation, for then the public would come at something like the real value. It would be neces- sary, as in law, for the trustees to render an account, and we should have set down the value of the usufruct. He would take, for instance, Corfe Castle ; and, in estimating what might be the amount to be paid for compensation, we should take into the account the value of the appointment of Cursitor Baron, which had been bestowed on the son of an honourable member—of his appointment as a Commis- sioner of Bankrupts, which had arisen out of the patronage of Corfe Castle. .(Cries of "No, no 1") Did honourable members say " no I" How could they account for the possession of such places in any other way ?

Mr. GOULBURN defended the appointment of Mr. Perceval to the si- necure office of Teller of the Exchequer; it was a compliment paid to the memory of his excellent father. Mr. Goulburn dwelt very much on the inconvenience which must necessarily arise from the abolition of the rotten boroughs in the event of his Majesty's selecting as Minister a person who was not in Parliament. In such a case, the Minister might not be able to get in at all.

Mr. LENNARD approved strongly of the bill. He gave a decided de- nial to the assertion of Mr. Tyrrell that the people of Essex were indif- ferent to Reform : so far was this from being the case, that Mr. Tyrrell himself came in on the Reform interest. His placards bore the motto, "Tyrrell and Reform ;" he had even declared himself its champion, at an exclusively Tory meeting ; and, what was yet more strange, the declaration was received with unanimous applause. If the people had refrained from demanding Reform of late years, it was not because they were indifferent on the subject, but because they had no hope of seeing it carried into effect. Now that the Government was favourable to the measure, the people had come forward, and the table of the House would soon be covered with petitions in its favour.

All who spoke at this stage of the discussion were imperfectly heard. The general feeling of the members as of the public, seemed to be weariness and impatience under the infliction of a debate of seven -days, which was intended to issue in no positive act of opposition. A Scotch member said, that Scotland, under its present system, had grown great and prosperous, while formerly it was poor and discon. tented.

Alderman WAITIIMAN warmly commended the measure ; which had received the unanimous approbation of the City of London. Mr. FITZGERALD complained that Seaford should be disfranchised, merely for its poverty.

A member, who followed Mr. Fitzgerald, said, he had doubted of the soundness of the bill when first introduced, but his doubts had been since resolved, and he should certainly support it.

Mr. STEWART was understood to oppose the Ministers. Mr. BAYNTUN thought those who charged Ministers with the intro- duction of a revolutionary measure, strangely forgot that they were men who had as great a stake in the country, and were as much in- terested in the preservation of its constitution, as themselves could possibly be. With respect to borough influence,— When honourable members should have proved that it was constitutional influ ence,—that it was not one of the greatest insults to the good sense of the nation,— the most unjustifiable mode of packing an elective assembly—then he, for one, should be unwilling to disturb it. But believing, as he did, that this aristocratical influence tended to the annihilation of one of the three great estates of this king- dom, and that not the least important—the representation of the people; reducing the Constitution, in its present very decayed and nearly worn-out state, from a Constitution of King, Lords, and Commons, to that of King, Lords, and their dependents—(Hear, hear !)—instead of the free choice of the Commons of England —believing that, he could not sympathize in the wish of those honourable gentle. men, that the aristocracy should be permitted to retain what, in his opinion, was an _unconstitutional power, under the gentle denomination of a considerable share of .Parliamentary influence. (Hear, hear!) Mr. PEREGRINE COURTENLY said, that in Totness the measure would produce patronage and bribery, which it had never experienced before. Mr. Courtenay spoke for a considerable time, but his speech was drowned

by continual cries of " Question !"

Lord STANLEY warmly supported the measure. The question was, whether that House was to remain ostensibly representing the people, yet disavowed by the people whom it professed to represent,—whether its members were to be returned bond fide by the constituency of England, or to be nominated by those who bad no claim to interfere in its constitution. From the first moment when he entered that House, he had himself been elected by large bodies of constituents, and might consequently be supposed to express the sentiments of .free and independent Englishmen. Four times had he been returned for a borough in Lancashire, and had thrice to undergo the ordeal of a contested election. He was truly a representative of the people, and no consideration would induce him to „relinquish so honourable a pri vilege. The bill would have the effect of creating many alterations in the country, and none of those alterations could be bring him- self to regret. It would materially affect the borough which he had formerly repre- sented ; but a change of the nature contemplated would give him no uneasiness either in that case or any other, and he should accordingly feel the greatest plea. Bare in supporting. Ministers to the utmost of his power. Mr. KEITH DOUGLAS complained that Tavistock would have a larger *hare of elective power than Dumfries; a town which, with its suburbs, contained not less than 13,000 inhabitants.

Mr. T. S. DUNCOMBE strongly excited the languid, spirits of the House, by-a speech delivered whh great animation of manner as well as freedom of elocution. His constituents of Hertford had authorized him to give their thanks to his Majesty's Ministers far file introduction of the nieaginit. dirin Sincerely to men who were itliburto-goraTthe people of England from the unconstitutional influence 'which had to disgraced the-House. Mr, Duncombe said the Ministers had been chat lenged to stand up and defend the measure if they could—they had done so : he thought that Sir Charles Wetherell's challenge would have bon better omitted.

He would now in turn challenge Sir Charles or any of his friends to answer the speech-of the Secretary for Ireland ; or, if they did not like that speech, let the= answer, or make an approach to answer, if they dared, the speech of the Lord-Adyce. cate of Scotland. He called upon Sir Charles to do this, and he gave him till the passing of the bill—for pass it would—and if he attempted it, his answer would betas great a failure as the attempt of the honourable ex-Secretary of the Admiralty the eater day. That honourable member did attempt a reply, but it was like the trash of a cer- tain Sunday newspaper, compared with the Eettnburgh Review. Did the members for rotten boroughs suppose that they could defeat the measure ? No : even if his Ma- jesty's Ministers wished to abandon it, the country would not allow them. The country had seen them with delight lay prostrate the outworks of corruption. " No," exclaimed Mr. Duncombe, " you rotten borough proprietors,—yes, you I say,—if you do not hear reason, and open your corrupt gates to his Majesty's Ministers, all your rotten bolts will be made to give way ; for though you may postpone, you cannot prevent their victory." The House had been told that the meastre was something bordering upon rebellion,—that it was a sort of treason to talk oftlithe dissolution of that beautiful assembly ; but if the measure were defeated, ommenderfhis Majesty to dissolve the present Parliament; and not only so— would not only recommend a dissolution of Parliament, and an appeal to the untry for public support, but the Ministers would be justified in recommending to e Crown to ms- pend the writs for the sixty rotten boroughs, upon which this measure and the general opinion of the country had put the stamp of illegality. (Much laughter and cheering throughout.) Mr. C. TENNANT spoke in support of the measure, but was not heard.

Lord Jong RUSSELL rose to reply, and the House was immediately still. He began by expressing his surprise, that in a question of this importance, one-half or three-fourths of the speeches against it had been confined chiefly to personal gibes and taunts, and to endeavours not to point out great and essential faults, but to accuse some of his friends and himself of partiality. He did not expect to hear such an accusation thrown out even to provoke a cheer. or thatany member could have been liable to the suspiciou of pursuing a course so base. (Hear!) He did not expect that he should be capable of being snpposedby any possi- bility influenced by such paltry considerations, as how he might serve a relative, or advance the interests of a friend, in laying before the House his plan of Reform. in attempting any thing so mean, he could not even expect to escape notice: the paltry effort must be at once discovered, were he of that wretched class who shrunk-not from the commission, bat the exposure, of a disgraceful action. Though he did not expect such an imputation from any member, yet least of all did he expect it front the member for Callington ; he thought that he had too long lived on terms of friend- shuiapaenrd. intimacy with that gentleman to have such a slur cast upon him from that quarter.

He would first answer the personal objections.

His Majesty's Ministers had taken for their rule the Population Returns of 1821. They might, no doubt, in fixing the limit of disfranchisement, have gone farther; but what would have been the consequence ? If, for instance, they had gone the length of including Tavistock, they would, instead of 1118, have removed 2611 members • and they certainly were not prepared to propose a measure to that ex- tent. They were compelled to draw the line somewhere; and in doing so, it was impossible but that some boroughs must have escaped. Had they fixed the limit above 500, Highain Ferrers would have escaped; had they said 1,000, three or four others might lay them open to objection ; and equally so 2,000, 3,000. 4,000, or any number whatever. It was observable, too, that out of twenty-five boroughs, only two or three had been selected for animadversion, whilst there were twenty-two others with which no person on that side of the House bad the remotest connexion. The subject, he could assure the House, had been very carefully gone into; the public returns were taken as the basis of the whole bill ; and although population returns might be uncertain, they were the most correct documents upon which the measure could be founded. Mr. W. Peel had compared the returns with a docu- ment containing an account of the population of Tamworth ; but would it have been expedient to found an act of that House on the mere letter of a returning officer. when returning officers sometimes confessed their total ignorance of the subjecet In like manner. the indirect objects of tax-officers rendered their returns an uncertain guide. Mr. W. Peel, in trying to raise a cheer, in comparing Caine, Tavistock, and Tamworth, had failed to notice that the number of Iit. householders in Tamworth was only 130, while in 'favistock there were 260. In short, the Government acted openly and impartially upon the information they found collected in the public offices ; without seeking any private information, they came forward-stud stood upon Parliamentary documents ; and let his opponents prove that those were im- proper grounds. Mr. Croker had accused them of professing to proceed upon a principle of population, and net afterwards with adhering to it; observing that certain boroughs, containing only four or five thousand, were permitted to return as many members as towns in Yorkshire with a population of twelve or thirteen thousand. Now the measure was certainly not one of perfect symmetry. One of perfect symmetry might be better or it might be worse ; but his Majesty's Govern- ment did not profess to submit any such measure to the House. The 180,000 in- habitants in Westminster bad no more members than Hertford, Reading, or St. Alban's. Anomaly they found, and anomaly they would leave. A great measure which should divide the country into equal portions, and give to each its suitable and proper proportion of representation, might be a great and -vise measure ; and if so, let honourable members opposite bring it forward; but let them not find fault with him for net doing what he never professed to undertake. Let the opposers of the present measure come forward themselves with a greater and more extensive measure of Reform; but let them not charge Ministers with inconsistency in not doing what they themselves would have been the foremost to resist ; let them net. for the sake of a symmetry which existed nowhere, and by which no one professed to be governed, seek to prevent all Reform, and put a stop to all improvement. (Much cheering.)

Sir Robert Peel had complained that Lord John had not given any ingenious reasons for the plan. Now he confessed that he had given few reasons, for he felt that few were necessary.

It was sufficient to mention the great evils of which reasonable men complained; and then to produce the plan to speak for itself. That it had spoken for itself, was proved by the reception it had experienced in all parts of the country. (Loud cheers.) It had been read in the South, the North, and the West, in Scotland and in Ireland, and no fault had been found with the want of ingenious reasons. AIL were satisfied with the scheme as it stood, because the great objects, one after an- other, were attained, and were made evident to every man by the simple use of his common sense. (Cheers Sir Robert Peel ha.) d read an extract from one of his Lordship's speeches delivered in 1819, and asked how he could reconcile the pane- gyric it contained upon the constitution with the present measure. To this species of argument, Lord John Russell replied— It was notimportant to consider whether he had changed his opinion or not ; but as the speech had been read, he had referred to it, and he found that be was partly right and partly wrong. With reference to the working of the constitution for half a century after the Revolution, he was inclined to believe that the opinion he expressed in 1819 was well founded; but in studying the history of the country in the past century, be had not paid sufficient attention to the working of the constitution in the latter part of it; and he had therefore corrected his former opinion. " From fiction's heights, where he had wandered long, He stooped to truth, and moralized his song." In 1822 be had stated in that House, with reference to the existing state of the representation and of the government of the country,—that consideringthe progress which had been made by the country in intellect and in wealth, and that the middle classes bad made so great advances in knowledge and importance, and comparing that wealth and intellect and intelligence with the institutions of his country, he found that the constitution of the House bad grown to be on a basis narrower and narrower, whereas it ought to rest on a basis broader and broader : and be had atated4 that if that inequality was not corrected, the growing intellect of the country

. Would soon be dissatisfied; that it had appeared that the members for small bo- roughs had divided In the proportion ofthree to one against every retrenchment and economy, whilst members for counties had divided in the same proportion in favour of economy and retrenchment ; and having gone through this investigation patiently, he had concluded that u larger Reform was necessary than he had before proposed. In order to Illustrate his opinion, he would read an extract from the speech he re- ferred to s "The indifference of the House to the measures I then proposed has ' compelled me to look for others more calculated to insure the co-operation of the country at large, and to obtain from the House in the gross, that Reform which they were unwilling to effect by gradual and unpretending means." He was sorry that the change he then proposed of adding one hundred members to the House had not been sanctioned, for though not altogether calculated to remedy the evil, it would have been a step to a roars perfect Reform.

Sir Charles Wetherell had said; that Ministers wished to introduce a democracy. Lord John Russell denied that the proposed Reform , would make the House of Commons more democratic.

Because Yorkshire, which now sends four members, will, in future, send six, must they all at once become democrats ? Or, if Manchester shall send members -to Parliament, will they be more dem ovratical than those for Liverpool and Bristol? Fear often conjured up apprehensions which were never realized, as when the Corporation ft est Acts were repealed ; and Catholic Emancipation was to be an end of the co ution. In short, almost every change produced alarm with some,

—even a cha the game-laws. (Hear !)

Amongst mixed objections, the late Secretary at War had urged, that the m re would take away the King's crown, and that it would give too many members to Durham.

As to taking the crown off the King's head, he thought the House might safely leave his Majesty to the protection of his people. (Loud cheers.) Gentlemen who • spoke with so much vehemence in favour of boroughs were mistaken in supposing that boroughs formed a rampart for the protection of the throne. The throne was not supported by such rotten and decayed timbers. The boroughs were calculated not to increase the loyalty of the country, but to diminish it. The Crown would be more secure, and the throne more firm by being placed upon the affections of the people. They were the fittest guardians to maintain the institutions of the country. What might be suited to other times was unfit for the present ; and the sooner the vicious parts of the system were cut off, the more would the people be disposed to look at it with that respect and reverence which the people of a free country should entertain for those institutions by which they were guarded.

The House had been told that the Government of this country could not be carried on, if its members could not obtain seats by means of boroughs.

This was a great mistake. Boroughs were a convenience to the members of the Government, and merely a convenience, nothing more. When a gentleman took upon him an office of state, to which laborious duties were attached, it was doubt- less convenient to have no constituents, for it relieved him from no inconsiderable addition to his occupations—the care of their interests. It was not true, however, that because gentlemen happened to be members of an Administration, they would be rejected by every large body of constituents. The University of Cambridge was represented by Mr. Pitt, the town of Liverpool by Mr. Canning. and the county of Down by Lord Castlereagh, for a very considerable period ; and he believed that they might alt of them have retained their seats for those places if they had chosen. If Sir It. Peel had stood for Liverpool, or for any large manufacturing district, the people would gladly have availed themselves of his valuable services..

Much had been said about intimidation.

What would gentlemen say to the words of Lord Chatham—" If the House will not reform itself within, it will be reformed with a vengeance from without."

(Lad and continued cheering.) Had he, or any gentleman on his side the House,

said any thing half as strong 1 and yet these words had been perpetually quoted without being found fault with. But he would read a passage from the speeches of Mr. Burke, who had been so much cried up as the patron of these aristocratic in- stitutions, the admirer of the present system of representation, and as the protector of that House against the demands of the people for Reform. This was his lan- guage—" The whole hope of reformation is at length cast upon us ; and let us not deceive the nation, which does us the honour to hope every thing from our virtue. If all the nation are not equally forward to press this duty upon us, yet be assured that they will equally expect we should perform it. The respectful silence of those who wait upon your pleasure, ought to be ns powerful with you as the call of those who require your service as their right. Some, without doors, affect to feel hurt for your dignity, because they suppose that menaces are held out to you. Justify their good opinion, by showing that no menaces are necessary to stimulate you to your duty. But, Sir, whilst we may sympathize with them, in one point, who sympathize with

In in another, we ought to attend no less to those who approach us like men, and who, in the guise of petitioners, speak to us In the tone of a concealed authority. It is not wise to force them to speak out more plainly what they plainly mean. But the petitioners are violent. Be It so. Those who are least anxious about your con- duct, are not those that love you most. • * * Let the Commons in Parliament assembled be one and the same thing with the commons at large." Such was the manner in which Mr. Burke disposed of the theory, so popular among the gentle- men opposite—that this House ought not to be the representative body of the peo- ple, but something better—that it ought to have no connexion with the "commons at large," and that it was much better constituted without such connexion. (Cheers.) Again, "The distinctions that are made to separate us are unnatural and wicked contrivances. Let us identify, let us incorporate ourselves with the people. Let us cut all the cables and snap the chains which tie us to an unfaithful shore, and enter the friendly harbour that shoots far out into the main its moles and jetties -So receive us. 'War with the world, and peace with our constituents.'" These were the words of Mr. Burke, in his celebrated speech respecting econo- mical Reform in civil offices, which air. Burke and the people at that time thought would be a sufficient remedy for the evils they complained of. All the exertions of Mr. Burke, however, could not prevent the hydra, though mutilated, from raising his heads again. Where one extravagant abuse had been lopped off, ten more had risen in its stead. The people now looked for another and a more effectual species of Reform. The people thought, and reasonably, that they had found such a Re- form in the reformation of that House, whose peculiar province it was to vote the public money—such a reformation as would make the House a vigilant guardian of the public purse, and of the public interests. The people, therefore, would no longer be contented with a Deform in places, and offices, and persons ; but demanded such a Reform as would render it unnecessary for them to troublathemselves for the fu- ture with inquiries as to whether this office or that office was abolished--whether this salary or that salary was reduced—which would render these inquiries unneces- sary, by giving them such a state of representation, as would enable them safely to depend upon their representatives for taking care that when an office was useless it should be abolished, when a salary was too large it should be retrenched, when an armament was unnecessary it should not be made, and when a law was oppressive it should not be passed. (Cheers.) Sir Robert Peel had expressed his regret that the question of Reform had not been postponed, or sonic measure of moderate Reform proposed, to which no reasonable objections could be urged. By this species of Reform. he supposed the; the right honourable Baronet meant a Reform, of which the disfranchisement of certain boroughs would not form a part, and which would not confer any great extension of the elective franchise. The right honourable Baronet had said, that the Government would have been able to have passed such a measure through the two Houses of Parliameut without difficulty or danger. No doubt they might : but if the Government bad taken this course—though they would have avoided much trouble and opposition—though they might have conciliated a vast majority of that House, and have been carried with triumphant success through the session—yet, allow him to say, they would at the same time have prepared many and great evils for the country at large. (Much cheering.)

Mr. Baring had said, " It is a strange thing, that, somehow or other, bur institutions do not work well : something certainly requires amend- ment, but I confess I cannot tell what it is."

This might be very well for a critic of the constitution, but it would not do for responsible advisers of the Crown, and servants of the public. It would not do for them to exclaim, when they saw things going wrong, " It's a very strange thing that our. institutions won't work well." (Cheers and laughter.) It would not do to admit that something required amendment, to profess their ignorance of What It Was, and then let the matter sleep. No; it was their duty to endeavour with all their hearse, with all their soul. and with all their mind, to find out what was wrong, to apply the proper remedy, and to make things go better. (Cheers.) A greater evil existed than even the construction of that House.

For several years a want of confidence—a growing want of confidence—in public men had existed. The people had fallen into the habit of separating them- selves into parties, sects, classes, and unions, proposing their own remedies, and seeking to attain them without looking to that House ; and all this in consequence of their imperfect reliance upon those who were called the representatives of the people. (Cheers.) Now, he much feared that if this state of things continued, a separation between the constituted authorities and the great mass of the wealth and intelligence of the country must ensue. (Hear, hear I)

If the Ministers had proposed a half and incomplete measure, they might have gone on through the session, or perhaps a little longer, buoyed up by the support of those whose personal interests they had con. stilted ; but they could not have long continued in office without the confidence and support of the nation.

And suppose the present Ministry were removed, did the gentlemen opposite think that they could bold an office, and deny Reform I On the one hand, there would be want of confidence in the present Ministers, who would not only have denied the people, but basely betrayed them ; while on the other, there could be no confidence in their successors, who persisted with a degree of obstinacy which precluded all hope, in resisting measures upon which the people had set their hearts. And to what condition would they then have reduced themselves 1 They would no longer have it in their power to settle Reform 'upon a moderate scale, which should give equal representation to all the Interests of the country, but they would have forced upon them such a reform as might properly be called a revolts-- Liam—such a Reform as they could not resist, and which they would be com- pelled to submit to as to the law of the conqueror. (Much cheering) Lord John continued, emphatically— Let him not be idly told that they would resist still. He bad heard men go on for years with these threats of resistance,—he had heard men say that they bad taken their stand upon constitutional ground, which they would never abandon, and yet he had seen those very men driven to the:necessity, not only of laying aside those threats of resistance, not only retreating from the high ground they had as- sumed and declared they would for ever maintain, but even coming forward and proposing themselves those very measures which they had so frequently, so reso- lutely, and for so long a series of years protested against. (Cheers) He had seen enough of the bad consequences of yielding to fear, not to be deeply impressed with the truth, that by fur the wisest course was to do more than was expected from you —to do what was just and reasonable without being urged to do it—to profit by the seasonable time of doing that, which if so done, would be received with gratitude and respect, but which, if deferred, till it was not possible to defer it any longer, would be received with thanklessness and contempt. (Loud and continued cheering.) The gentlemen opposite said that they Would not be intimidated : but to what did this language amount when coupled with the qualification by which it had not been unaccompanied. To this, and this only—" We will not be intimidated to-day—we see no reason for a Reform at present—wait another year, and then, if the demands become louder, and more serious, and we see that resistance is really of no avail, why, then, we must yield." (Much cheering.) Those gentlemen talked of Sir. Canning and Mr. Huskisson. Now he happened to know that both Mr. Canning and Mr. Ruskissou, though they had always opposed Reform, were nevertheless of opinion that Reform would be carried before many years had elapsed. (Hear, hear !) It was only last year that lie had shown to Mr. Huskisson, at the bar yonder, the resolutions which he intended to propose on the subject of Reform ; and after reading them, Mr. nuakissun said—" I cannot sup- port these resolutions ; but I have no doubt that before long, something of the kind will be carried in Parliament." (Cheers.) If such bad been the opinions of wise and enlightened men, why, let him ask, should they wait any longer! Why con- tinue to resist that which could not be ultimately averted! If Reform were to be carried, let it be carried now ; let them do that now with a good grace, which they must do at last with a bad grace ; let them sacrifice their prejudices, and raise to themselves an altar for the sacrifice in the affections of the people. (Cheers.) Let them imitate the example which had been set them by the Duke of Norfolk, and by other truly liberal and patriotic men, and be assured that there was nothing mean, or base, or cowardly, in sacrificing personal Interests for the cake of establishing fu- ture peace and harmony in the country, and giving full, and, he hoped, long enduring satisfaction to the people.

'We never heard louder cheering in the House than that which fol- lowed at the close of this reply. The Speaker then put the question, "that leave be granted to bring in a bill for amending the state of the representation in England and Wales ;" which was carried by a mighty shout of " Aye !" only one loud and two feeble " Noes" being uttered against it.

THE SCOTCH BILL. When the rush of members going out had wel nigh subsided, Lord JOHN RUSSELL moved as of course for leave to bring in the Bill for amending the Representation of Scotland. The Scotch members, who had gathered importance by clubbing together when most of the others withdrew, seemed averse to the silent and un- dignified introduction of the bill, and taunted the Lord Advocate on the lack of explanation. His Lordship courteously tendered them ten or fifteen minutes of mere exposition ; and Sir WILLIAM RAE, the ex. Advocate, followed with a good half-hour's speech of prepared argument and elaborate detail, to show that the new distribution of franchise was unequal and unsatisfactory. Sir William expressed himself apprehensive of the consequences of giving a constituency of 12,000 persons to Edin- burgh (Mr. Jeffrey had said 3000) : he alleged that Scotsmen seldom met in great numbers, for political contest, without bloodshed ! This assertion, however, was received with general manifestations of dissent, and the " question " was called for. Sir CHARLES Foaaes, indignant that seven days should have been spent in debating the English Bill, and a single hour (from one to two in the morning) grudged for the dis- cussion of the Scotch, threatened an adjournment ; and he was sup- ported to a certain extent by Mr. CUTLAR FERGussox,—who, however, expressed his determination to support the general measure. Lord ALTHORP and LordJOHN RUSSELL said a few mild words to allay the Caledonian ire; and it was agreed that Scotland should have its day, when the bill came before the House on the first reading, which will take place on Monday.

THE IRISH BILL. From the demonstrations of Mr. RUTHVEN and a few others, it was apprehended that battle was to be giien for Ireland also ; but they were induced to wait for the printing of the bill, before they discussed its details.

2. TOBACCO IN IRELAND. The attention of the House of Commons on Thursday was chiefly directed to the consideration of Mr. WAnnun TON'S bill to prohibit the growth of Tobacco in Ireland. Lord ALTHORP apolo- gized for the Government not having pressed for the prohibition this ses- sion: it was admitted that great smuggling was the consequence of the permitted growth of tobacco in Ireland, but he would sooner sacrifice a portion of the revenue than add to the existing distress of that country. Mr. FRANELAND LEWIS said, the duty on tobacco was nearly three millions—the prime cost of the article about 350,0001. ; we would thus risk by the non-prohibition an immense revenue for the sake of a trifling investment. The extent of land employed in cultivating tobacco in Ire- land did not exceed five hundred acres ; and nothing could indicate amore shallow view of Irish distress than, to suppose that extent of cultivation

would materially affect it. "Mr. RUTHVEN said-he only asked for per.; mission to continue the cultivation for -the present season ; neither he nor any of hisCountrymen called for measures of relief to Ireland which must injure the rest of the kingdom. , UltiMately, the bill went through a committee, and was ordered to be reported.

3. CoLoNIAL TRADE. . This subject was discussed in committee at some length, last night. Mr. Pot:LETT .Thomsos, adverting to the bill introduced by Mr. •Herries during the short session of Parliament previous to Christmas, 'said, that almost the first documents that met his eye on entering office, were protests against it from the United States Minister,' from the West Indies, and from British North America. Under these circumstances, it was deemed imperative to modify a measure which was equally displeasing to all the parties con- cerned. The modifications were understood to be in the schedule of duties, which, in Mr. Herries7s bill, went to establish n protected trade between the Canadas :and the West . Indies, in the 'very teeth of the principle of the arrangement entered into with the United States, and to the utter destruction of its practical operation. Mr. HEitaiEs objected to the schedule, and entered into a long ex- amination of Mr. Thomson's argument ; but, as the latter was most imperfectly heard, and not at all intelligible, Mr. Herries's refutation of it was equally liable to misinterpretation. Mt'. THOMSON said, the bill was intended for the ultimate benefit of the West Indies, although. it would be accompanied by present sacrifice. Mr. Rom xsosr admitted that the West Indies could be as well supplied by the United States 'as" by Canada ; but by deriving their sup- plies from the former, 150,000 tons of shipping would be sacrificed: Ile thought that no lavour..was .due to the United:States, while the tariff remained unmodified, which amounted to a prohibition of British goods. 'altogether. r. -CumtLEs GRANT thought the conduct of the .American President' had been frank and manly. The opening of negotiations under the late Government was honourable to both parties. The great objection to the bill of Mr. Ilerries was, Mat it ithpoSed unemial' duties, and rendered them permanent. In the present bill, the duties, unless. in a few cases, would be found much reduced, and those cases would be afterwards pro- vided for.

Mr. KEITH DOUGLAS objected to the bill, as injurious, to the West Indies, and as a departure from the principles. formerly laid -down by Mr. Thomson. Mr. COUltTENAY also considered the bill as calculated to give protection to interests which had been but recently raised by

Government. .

Sir HENRY PA,RNELL objected to the bill, as recognizing what all sound theory repudiated-the .principle of protecting. ditties. The ad- vantage to the colonies was dubious, andithe irritation it might produce in the United States might be seriously injurious.• - • After a long conversation, • in which Mr. S. WORTLEY, Mr. Alder- man THOMPSON; Mr. BERNAL, Mr. WARBURTON, Lord A LTuottr . and Mr. IluatE bore theprincipal share, the several clauses of the bit'. were agreed to, and the report was ordered to be received on Monday.

4. TIMBER TRADE.' Mr. ATTWOOD, on the House going into a Committee of Wars. and M eans last night, complained of the continued' delays that had taken place in respect of the timber-duties. There were no less than 9000. tons of shipping, with 100,000/.'Worth of merchandise on board, at the present moment ready to sail, 'and kept froM sailing 'by the state of suspense in which the measures of Government had placed them.

Lord ALTIIORP said, he as Much deprecated the *delay as anyone; but there could be no reason why the ships in question'might not sail to 'their destination-the duties were not to be altered until the 10th Oc- tober, and they could be back before that' period. The other changes contemplated would be carried into effect as rapidly as •the forms of the House would admit.

Sir CHARLES WETIIERELL confirmed the complaint of Mr. Att- • wood. Both these members complained greatly of the shortness of the 'time assigned to the presenting of petitions, and the consequent impos- sibility of doing justice to such as hail been placed in their hands. • Mr: GouLnunN and Mr. HERMES followed on the same side. • • Mr. HUNT -expressed himself happy at the prospect of possessing, in the twin members for Boroughbridge; two such able advocates for the right Of petitioning. The number of petitions on the subject of the Reform, he must at the same time observe, had been misstated,-they were'not two thousand, they did not much exceed six hundred ; and it was worthy of remark, that only two of them prayed for what Ministers were prepared to grant. • (Cheers from Sir Charles Wetherell.) •

•

Yet in common-honesty he must say, that though the bill gave little of what was asked, and though he should be a hypocrite if he said he should be finally satisfied with what it proposed to give, he must nevertheless give it his cordial support. (Hear, hear !) He must also add, that though the people had not got what they asked, they were; in every city, town; and parish in the kingdom, delighted with it. (Cheers.) They were almost mad with joy at its introduction; and from .every part of the country thousands of petitions would come in, praying Parliament to pass the Bill. (Hear, hear!) 5. SUGAR DUTIES. The Marquis of CHANDOS, in the Committee last night, also moved a reduction of the duties on sugar from 23s. to 20s- The argument for the 'reduction was the distressed state of the West India interests ; which every one is, we believe, prepared to admit. Mr. BEnsrar., and Mr. HART DAVIS recommended the permission to use sugar in distillation and brewing. Lord ALTHORP thought the use of sugar in distillation might be 'properly considered. The quantity of barley on hand was very small ; in brewing it could not be risked without serious inconvenience. The in- crease of the malt-duty, this year alone, had been 800,000/. ; a revenue

so ample and increasing must not be hazarded. • The motion of Lord Chandos was rejected, on a division, by 147 votes to 49.

6. SCOTCH UNIVERSITIES. A motion of some importance was made in the Lords on Tuesday, by the Earl of HADDINGTON, respecting these learned seminaries. It was for a return of the names of the stu- dents who had taken degrees in the Colleges of Edinburgh and Glasgow since 1820. The Bishop of LONDON wished that "thereSident.graduates should be distinguished from the non-resident (imagining, we suppose, that the Northern Universities breed as many good sinecures as the Southern); and Lord TENTER/1E1r spoke of persons getting degrees without'.attendince.. The notice was Withdrawn; M be repthduced• ins an amended-shape. The 'object of Lord Hanols GT'ON is to"giVe to Edin• burgh and Glasguw Colleges the right' of sending. members to' Parlia- ment, in the•same way as Oxford and Cambridge. • The degrees should; however, be ; which are never granted -without four years' attendance at least.