irielutteS salt Praceeltingt in Parliament. 1. CORPORATION REFORM.

The examination of witnesses was continued in the House of Peers on Saturday.

The Deputy Recorder of Shrewsbury gave some particulars respect- ing the Free School, of which Archdeacon Butler is head master. He said that it would be injurious to the school to throw it open to the in- habitants generally, instead of confining it to the sons of burgesses. The religious instruction of the school was that of the Church of England. The burgesses would oppose the alteration proposed to be effected by the bill, on the principle of taking care of their own ; the school being their property, by the gift of Queen Elizabeth and King Edward the Sixth. The Corporation had of late years been richer than formerly, in consequence of having got rid of a lawsuit which had been a perpetual blister for two hundred years. The witness complained of some misrepresentation of his evidence by Mr. Rushton, the Commis- sioner; though be stated no particulars.

Mr. Loxdale said, that Mr. Rushton was found taking wine after dinner with Mr. Watton, the editor of the Shrewsbury Chronicle; whose politics he should say were Radical and violent.

Mr. Young, a gentleman who had lived thirty-six years in Shrews- bury, said that the Corporation performed their duties so as to give perfect satisfaction to by far the greater number of the inhabitants. Mr. Johnson, Town- Clerk of Hereford, stated that several parts of the Commissioners' Report did not convey a correct idea of what actually passed before them. Mr. Foster, Town-Clerk of Liverpool, mentioned some particulars relative to the mode of electing the common council, the governing body of Liverpool, the amount of the Corporation and Dock income and debt. He said it was erroneously stated in the Report, that 800/. had been given for the portrait of Alderman Case : the sum paid was only 3001., to Mr. Phillips, who was brought from London to paint the Alderman. Many respectable persons objected to the present system of self-election, and it was a subject of complaint that Dissenters were excluded from the Corporation : since the repeal of the Test Act, no Dissenter bad been proposed as a member of the Corporation. At the conclusion of the examination of this witness, The Earl of WICKLOW moved that counsel withdraw. Sir Charles Wetherell and Mr. Knight having accordingly withdrawn, Lord Wick- Low went on to observe, that, considering the advanced state of the session, it was desirable, unless it was deemed absolutely necessary to go on with the examination of witnesses, that the evidence should be brought to a close; and he moved a resolution to this effect.

Lord BROUGHAM said, that he had a petition from Bristol, which very distinctly and articulately answered the statements made in behalf of the Corporation of that city at the bar. Similar petitions from other places were in course of preparation. Now he would by no means recommend that counsel should plead, or witnesses be examined, in behalf of these petitioners ; but he intended to ask leave to read the petition from Bristol at length, in order that the answer of those who signed it to the charges brought against them might be put on record.

Lord ELLENBOROUGH doubted whether the House could refuse to hear more evidence ; though counsel might exercise their discretion in declining to bring forward any more.

The Duke of WELLINGTON said, that the shortest way would be, either to move that further evidence be beard, or to allow the conside- ration of the bill to proceed in its usual course.

Lord BROUGHAM concurred in this.

Lord FALMOUTH thought that the reception of further evidence should not be refused in this summary manner.

Lord CARNARVON thought the examination of witnesses should now close.

Lord WicsLow withdrew his motion.

Lord MELBOURNE wished to proceed as quickly as possible with the bill; and should move that the House go into Committee on Tuesday. He wished to give notice that he should present a petition from Man- chester, prepared in very great haste, on the following Monday. On the suggestion of the Duke of WELLINGTON, it was agreed that the bill should be committed on Wednesday instead of Tuesday ; and the House adjourned. On Monday, petitions in favour of the bill were presented by the Duke of GRAFTON, the Marquis of WESTMINSTER, Lord STRAFFORD, Lord RADNoR, Lord POLTIMORE, Lord BROUGHAM, and the Marquis of LANSDOWNE. Some conversation took place on the presentation of these petitions; but there was nothing requiring particular notice. Lord MELBOURNE presented a petition from the Commissioner who bad examined into the state of the Corporation of Coventry : he prayed to be heard in contradiction of the statements made against him at the bar. Lord Melbourne then laid before their Lordships the Manchester petition, signed by 22,832 persons.

Lord BROUGHAM supported the prayer of the petition. The only reason why it was not proposed at a public meeting-was, that there really was no time to call one. All the signatures bad been obtained within

twelve hours. The Duke of NEWCASTLE would acquaint their Lordships with the contents of a letter he had that morning received on the subject of the petition.

The letter stated that it had been got up in the way in which such petitions very frequently were—by obtaining the signatures of persons who were perfectly in- competent to affix their signatures to it. He would read the letter, which, as

their Lordship might suppose, was from a very good Conservative. It stated that the Radicals of Mauebester had been getting up a petition in support of the Corporation Bill, in consequence of the Lords still being in a majority against

the bill, which the Commons had sent up to it. The writer I egged to state how the petition was getting up. It was by placing. tables at the corners of the public streets, and getting all such persons as could just scribble their names to put them down : as the boys came out at their dinner-hour from the factories, they were called to sign their names; not one of them knowing what they were signing. " I hope," added the writer, 44 I hope you will explain to the House this trick, carrying on by the -Whig-Itadicals--tite representative party of our-

blessed House of Commons. If the qualification were higher, we would not have such Members as we now have. You may rely upon it, that the property and prosperity of this borough are Conservati les." Now the writer of this

letter certaiely was not a very great scholar— i Cheers and laughter)—but it contained matter worthy their Lordships' consideration notwithstanding. He

would only say, in conclusion, that he was astonished at the Commissioners making such a Report as they had done, upon the most partial asd false state- ment*. He thought their conduct deserving of the severest rrprehension of

that House; and if any proposition to that effect were brought forward, he for one would cheerfully vote in its favour. He did not believe that the majority of the People advocated the bill, but that the excitement in its favour was fomented and encouraged by his Majesty's Government.

Lord BROUGHAM hoped that, at all events, the Duke of Newcastle did not intend to punish the Commissioners without first hearing their defence. He was prepared at the proper time to show that not even the slightest impropriety of conduct could fairly be laid to their charge- " The noble duke has anticipated the decision of your Lordships on a main point of the inquiry, with which we are not at this time entitled to deal, the evidence not yet being weighed, or even printed, if I understand truly. He not only anticipates the decision of your Lordships, but enters into a discussion upon the subject. I do not mean, I can assure you, my Lords, to follow the noble duke's example, further than to say, that I suppose his anonymous correspon- dent, who, as he says with considerable justice, has not had much of the benefit of the schoolmaster, can at least sign his name. Now I want to see a specimen of hi. handwriting : of course I shall be better able to judge of the fact, if the noble duke will have the kindness to hand over to me that letter with the name signed to it : but I have not much doubt that it will be found to be that of an individual very well known in Manchester, who has been—I will not say slan- dering—I will not say misrepresenting—I will not say calumniating—but speak- ing on all occasions, with reference to this subject, in a very. unreserved and somewhat violent manner. He may be a very good Conservative, as the noble duke says, but he has been a very bad speaker, on every occasion and at every turn, fur a considerable time. ( Cheers and laughter.) As to only Radicals having got up this petition and signing it, I can say, that I know one or two persons very well indeed, who have come up with it, and they are just as little Radicals as the noble duke himself—which is perhaps saying very much. One of these gentlemen is one of the most respectable individuals in Manchester— a country banker, second to none in this country—of such wealth as I do not know whether many of your Lordships envy, but as I do very much—a very sensible man on all points—and one of the most quiet, most moderate, and most temperate politicians of any sort or kind that I ever have known in my experi- ence ; and he never was thought to he a Radical. Mr. George William Wood is, but Mr. Heywood is not, a Member of this—what is it ?—good-for-nothing 1:arliattient, that this anonymous gentleman talks of? Precious Parliament, was it not?"

The Duke of NeweasTSE—" Blessed." ( Cheers mid laughter.) Loot Bnoucuam-44 Oh ay—blessed. We have heard of various Parlia- ments—the Parliamentum incioctum among others; but I, for one, never heard of the Parliamentum benedietuni ; nevertheleao, if the preaeut Parliament passes this wholesome and blessed measure of Corporation Reform, I think the name the noble duke has given it may well belong to it, and that it may well and justly he called the Blessed Parliament' ever afterwards. ( Great laughter.) Mr. George William Wood, I was about to say, my Lords, has been elected since the Reform Bill ; but Mr. Heywood was a Representative under the old system, and before the passing of the blessed Bill of 11332, of blessed memory."

After some further conversation, by Lord ASHBURTON, Lord BROUGHAM, and Lord ELLENBOROUGH, the petition was laid on the table.

Lord MELBOURNE presented a petition from Leeds, signed by 16,000 persons, in favour of the bill. He also presented similar petitions from Banbury, Dover, Lincoln, Chester, Bradford, Carlisle, Weymouth, Coventry, and other places—in all thirty-one.

Lord STRANGFORD said, that the Coventry petition had, according to a letter he had received, been irregularly got up. Many of the signa- tures were to blank sheets. The town was thrown into disorder by a placard headed " Most Alarming Crisis." He would ask whether the places of residence of the petitioners were affixed to their names ?

Lord MELBOURNE said, it was not usual to affix the residences of petitioners.

Lord STRANGFORD said, it was strong evidence of their respectablity. Lord MELBOURNE replied, that it was evidence not usually furnished. On moving that the petitions should lie on the table, Lord MEL- BOURNE said— The Duke of Newcastle had been pleased to represent that the zeal of the People in behalf of the Reform Bill had been fomented and excited by his Majesty's Government. He begged to say, that he firmly believed it was not the case, and that he utterly denied the opinion expressed by the noble duke. He did not say it offensively to any party in the House, but these petitions were the spontaneous effusion of the People, arising from what they considered sudden interruption of the progress of the measure, and an impediment in the way of its final success.

The Duke of NEWCASTLE said, be had charged Ministers not with originating, but encouraging, the excitement. He begged to call Lord Melbourne's attention to an extract from a morniqg paper, which he had the authority of Lord Brougham for calling a Ministerial journal—he meant the Morning Chronicle. It ran thus—" But we will not so far libel the character of our countrymen as for a moment to suppose that when victory is about to crown their efforts they will weakly turn their backs on the foe, and submit to be trampled on by infuriated Oligarchs. Throughowl city, town, and village, we expect to see the People once more at their posts, prepared to crown the work which added so much to the national glory in 1832." Very' like agitation this—" Repose from incessant and roost harassing agitation they never can expect, till they humble the Oligarchy in the dust ; for submission Would only make these tyrants more insolent in their exactions. With a hostile. Court, and a hostile Peerage, they must make no truce till they have deprived both of the power of doing mischief." Now be called upon Lord Melbourne to answer him plainly, whether he meant to charge his Majesty's Attorney-General with a prosecution against such a villanous article. He would tell him without , the slightest qualification, that he was bound to institute a prosecution against j this paper, for a libel which affected the dignity and safety of the Crown. There were various other passages in the article which he had quoted. Ile would not trouble their Lordships by reading them : suffice it to say, that they were all of a piece with what he had already read, and that they had first attracted his notice in the Standard of August 5th. He called upon the noble viscount to satisfy him of his desire and determination to uphold the dignity of the Crown, and not to suffer it to be infringed by such wicked and diabolical attempts to deprive it of all favour in the eyes of the People. Lord MELBOURNE had no hesitation in saying, that is was not his intention to instruct the Attorney-General to prosecute the' Morning Chronicle. Ministers were not responsible for that or any other article which appeared in the newspapers.

The Duke of NEWCASTLE only asked the question, in order to ascer- tain whether the King's name was to be protected from pollution ?

The petitions were ordered to lie on the table, and the House ad- journed.

On Tuesday, petitions. were presented against the bill, from Eve- sham and Warrington, by the Earl of FAtmount and the Duke of RICHMOND; in favour of it, from Melton, Abingdon, Berwick-upon- Tweed, Droitwich, and the Corporation of Derby, by Lords RADNOR, BROUGHAM, and MELBOURNE. Lord BROUGHAM also presented a petition from Mr. Browitt of Coventry, complaining of the gross mis- representations of his conduct by the Corporation witnesses examined before their Lordships. The witnesses, according to Mr. Browitt, had been guilty of "gross and wicked falsehoods ;" he had excited the enmity of Mr. Woodcock, one of these witnesses, by exposing before the Commissioners the facts connected with a lease held by that person from the Corporation, of certain water-works at the rate of 101. a year ; though he actually made .500/. a year by them. This Mr. Woodcock, notwithstanding, professed to be " not connected with the Corporation."

Lord BROUGHAM also presented the petition from Bristol. This petition was read at length, as an answer to the allegations of the Cor- poration witnesses; although Lord KENYON objected to its being read through.

Petitions in favour of the bill were presented on Wednesday, by Lord MELBOURNE, from Sheffield, Yarmouth, Hertford, Penryn, Shrewsbury, Stamford, and other places—sixteen altogether. Lord RADNOR presented two from Staveley Bridge and Ashton. Lord BROUGHAM presented one from Marsden, another from Lambeth, and a third from Leicester, signed by 9500 persons in the course of ten or twelve hours. The language of the Leicester petition was, Lord Brougham admitted, rather strong ; for it was stated that the determi- nation of the Peers to hear counsel against the bill seemed to imply inability to cope with the duties of legislation, and tended " to lower and degrade the right honourable House yet more in the estimation of the People."

There was great confusion on the reading of this sentence, and cries of " Order ! " in the midst of which,

The Duke of NEWCASTLE started up, and said—" I think, my Lords, the noble and learned lord has read quite enough of this peti- tion."

Lord BROUGHAM—" I differ from your Grace on that point ; for I mean to read the whole of it." (Cheers and laughter.) Lord Brougham then went on to say- " I did not mean to have read it, inasmuch as I feel considerable respect and ve- neration for your Lordships' House; but I shall read it all now. Your Lordships owe it entirely to his Grace. Save us from our friends! say you ; but as the noble duke has interrupted me, I shall beg to read the petition at length, even at the risk of its preventing me from taking part in the debate of the night. The petitioners state, That it is with feelings of the deepest regret that your peti- tioners mark the proceedings of your right honourable House respecting the Municipal Corporation Reform Bill,—a bill introduced by his Majesty's Minis- ters, and which has passed the Commons House of Parliament almost without opposition. They cannot consider the determination of your right honourable House to hear counsel against the principle of the bill, involving as it does a great and extensive legislative measure, otherwise than as a confession of the inability of your right honourable House, as legislators, to cope with such a subject without foreign aid, and thus to lower and degrade your right honourable House yet more in the estimation of the People. That the insulting and abusive language repotted to have been used by counsel respecting the People, at the bar of your Lordships' House, not only unrestrained, but apparently with the approbation of certain noble lords, excites in the minds of your petitioners '—You see the difficulty of stopping me in this. ("Go on, go on ! " and laughter.) No, I bad rather not go on without just explaining how much more satisfactory it is for me to read the petition, and how anxious I am to satisfy the noble duke. You may think you see that what I have read is wrong, but you cannot tell that what I am going to read is not pet fectly right." ( Cheers and laughter.) Lord WICKLOW—" My Lords, as soon as the noble and learned lord has read this petition, I shall move that it be rejected."

Lord BROUGHAM—" Really, this is most irregular. I fear I shall have to begin again—Oh, here is the place."

" the approbation of certain noble lords, excites in the minds of your petitioners feelings of indignation and disgust, still further increased by the reception of the ex parte evidence of the very men who are most intimately mixed up with all those corporate transactions of which the People so justly complain, and who notoriously profit by the abuses which they uphold."

The petitioners proceeded to demand that the bill should be passed, in order to deprive persons in whom they had no confidence whatever of the " irresponsible power of taxing and spending ; " and implored their Lordships to dismiss from their minds the impressions raised by the misrepresentations of their inveterate enemies. Lord BROUGHAM observed, that the petitioners did not style their petition humble, neither did they humbly show. He moved that the pe- tition be received.

The Duke of NEWCASTLE regretted that he had interrupted Lord Brougham, as he should be sorry to deprive him of an opportunity of insulting the House—. For the noble and learned lord to indulge in this kind of sneer, and invective, and unbecoming sarcasm, was, he really thought, beneath him, and excessively insulting to the dignity of their Lordships' House. ( Cheers, and "No, *al") He repeated, it was very insulting for the noble and learned lord to use the lan- guage with which he attempted to flagellate that House. It was nothing less than pandering to the very coarsest passions and worst feelings of the lowest class of the community. (Loud cheers.) 110311 BROUGHAM denied that he had insulted the House, and main- bin' tar his right to read every word of the petition.

Lori WICgLOW said—" No !"

Laird BROUGHAtil—" The noble lord says no : well then, I shall *Apt for myself, I will make up my own mind : I have a right to make eartints I please, and I move that the petition be received—the bold may move to reject it." Loss) Waluow moved that the petition be rejected.

After some remarks from Lord FALMOUTH and the Duke of WEL- AcuroN, Lord BRoUGHANI withdrew the petition.

Lord WICKLOW—', I beg to assure the noble and learned lord, that if he bad not withdrawn the petition, I would certainly have taken the Doane of the House."

Lord BROUGHAM—" And very probably you would have carried it away with you." ( Great laughter and cheers.) A petition was then presented by Lord BROUGHAM from Mr. Cock Bann. one of the Commissioners who went to Coventry, denying the climes made against him by Sir Charles Wetherell and Mr. Knight, and praying to be heard in his defence at the bar: Mr. Whitcombe,

etailtagne, was dead. Lord Brougham regretted that he could not witocide the prayer of the petitioner he was opposed to bearing the Bristol petitioners, and could not make an exception in favour of Mr. Osekburo.

The Duke of NEWCASTLE delivered a rambling speech, complaining of the manner in which petitions were got up, advising Lord Melbourne ea withdraw himself from the Government—from all connexion with treasonable conspirators against the State, and reprobating the attacks evade on the Duke of Cumberland in the House of Commons. He limas hen called to order by Lord WHARNCLIFFE; and very unwillingly sit down-.

Lord MELBOURNE then rose to move that the House should resolve dsself. into Cominittee on the bill. He began by adverting to the speeches of counsel aid the evidence given at the bar. Considerable aiscuovenience had resulted from the risolution to hear that evidence. Irby attention of the House had been directed to very small matters, sod the evidence had been altogether ex parte. Many of the state- ments of the Corporation witnesses could be contradicted ; but, sup-

posing that all which they stated was true, what did it, at the utmost, amount to, beyond a restatement of what bad been already given in the tieports, and the exposure of some trifling mistakes admitted by the feboanissioners? Those gentlemen were, however, prepared to defend their Report against the charge of misstatement. Lord Melbourne

ded to defend the Commissioners against the attacks of Lord proceeded and others— With respect to the Corporation Commissioners, I cannot but think that they, bass been treated with great and unmitigated injustice. Their names lam been derided ; and definitions of their political characters given, from .rbssuea collected I know not. But when observations of the same sort were work which were supposed to reflect upon the early political character of others, the answer immediately was—" You have no right to say that ; you have no might to attack me for opinions I may have entertained before I came into Par- frinneet ; it is my public acts alone that you have any right to impeach." (Sgreers.) My Lords, I think there is great justice in that remark ; but then, way Lords, let the same justice be rendered to the Commissioners which you *mind for yourselves; that which you ask for yourselves should be also meted eat to these Commissioners, who stand precisely in the same situation as you id—who stand precisely in the same rank of life—who stand precisely in the name profession as those did who now charge them with undue _violence — with going beyond due bounds in their political principles, political feelings, and political opinions. ( Cheers.) This, my Lords, is no light charge. It is very well known what is meant by this. I say it would be perfect injustice MI ascribe these feelings and opinions to the Commissioners ; for nobody can be *hive or certain of what are the real political principles and opinions of men when they are merely collected from common report and common conversation, sad not from the intimate intercourse of private life. It is not fair, then, with respect to men struggling upward in their profession, to stop them in a manner which may be of serious mischief to them, and greatly prejudicial in the course of their after-life. Your lordships must expect that these Commissioners, attacked as they have been—accused of the most violent principles—charged with stating direct falsehoods—and threatened with punishment—must neces- eerily feel as men of honour and integrity, who are conscious of having dis- alargeela great public duty to the best of their ability, indignant and impatient raider such imputations. They have been most anxious to petition your Lord- Alps, in order that they may be heard at the bar in refutation of those as per- aims. They feel confident they could, in a short period, dissipate the whole of eLtiim thrown out against them. I have, however, entirely dissuaded them from such a course. I was afraid that we might be involved in further inconvenience: I was afraid that some of your Lordships would say, that it was dse-inkratice that they should be heard. I therefore persuaded them from isrsesvg such a course; distinctly informing them, that I could not refuse =seitint their petition, but that I thought it more prudent not to present it, I did not in my mind feel confident that if I did not move that they Amid be heard at the bar, some other noble lord might do so. In consequence of this, they addressed to me a letter, which states more distinctly than' I could its the grounds on which they rest their case, and the manner in which they wee to the charges made against them: which -letter I think it my duty to two* your Lordships with. I have also received a letter from Mr. Buckle, awl sew from Mr. Austin to a similar effect."

He then read a letter from Messrs. Drinkwater and Rushton, from \aids the following passages are extracted- - We pass toy in silence much of the intemperate abuse with which we have been =sailed, sinee Owls Lordships did not deem the language in which it was uttered unfit to he heard at their bar. lint we cannot entirely repress the indignation and disgust wRto. which we have heart ourselves accmerd by counsel of malignity, and of wilful and scoxidatous falsehood; which feelings have been greatly, heightened by observing that mon ett the witnesses would adopt the language which the counsel ineffectually en- direassured to put into their mouths. .•.We have carefully examined the. whole of the evidence given at the bar. and are sea a litt*.serprised at perceiving that by far the largest portion of it consists merely . star imperfect repeCtion of statements already made more fully in our Reports, with gala we bad not conceived that it w as the intention of their Lordships to allow their time to be occupied. The facts contradicted in detail are not cooly exceedingly few in soutber, but Sire altogether unimportant. -.liven under the strong provocation that we have received, we are 'very loath to .peas either Sir Charles Wetherell or Mr. Knight of an intention to mislead the Ittess,... although they have shos n little forbearance or delicacy towards us ; but we etorently beg your Lordships to take an opportunity of pressing on the attention of die Raise, gnat the abuse of as, in which those yentlemen indulged, was neither grounded ism a- spealic alley atoms is the petitions on winch they were heard, nor has it been s118.- irlisaiarjsestified by the evidence which they have called . " A oaang many other things of which we have just reason to complain. we have dis- covered. with the greatest regret. that in more than one instance a witness was prerailed upon to swear that the Report was film and incorrect, by couniel preteidiny to read 119 part of the Report. that whwh is not part of the Repe,rt, and by incorrectly staling that to be omitted from the lit pt.rt which is not omitted from the Report. Three instances of this occur in the evidence on Coventry :dune. . ......

" It has been alleged, and strongly commented upon. that we were in private comma. nicat ion ith the adversaries or ihe corporation ; which, in the sense in which alone I he witnesses could swear to it, (namely. fin the purpose of learning the subjects of impiiry,) is true and justifiable. but in the sense in which it was Nought against us, as an acca. satiou. is absolutely groundless. It must be obvious to your Lordship that it was only from the adversaries of the Corporation that MP could learn oa hat were the comphoints that existed on which the inhabitauts isislhed an inquiry to be instituted ; but the examination appears to have been cautiously conductesl, so as to lead the House io he. I ieve, contrary ti the fact. that evidence was received in private, and that complaints have been noticed in the Report which were not made the subject of public investigation."

Lord MELBOURNE proceeded to remark on the general measure before the House-

" Your Lordships must be fully aware that there is a great and general feeling prevailing on this subject ; that that feeling is not confined to one part of the 'country, or to one class of the community, but that it prevails as well in corpo. rate towns and cities as in towns not corporate; that it, in short, pervades the whole mass of the community. I am not, as your Lordships are well aware, one of those who think that public opinion is always necessarily correct, jost, and right—or that we are always to be bound to obey its dictates. I ant pet. fectly ready to admit, that the People may be misled by passion, their judgment warped by prejudice, that their opinions may be erroneous, and their views mis- taken : but, my Lords, I nevertheless am hound to say. ;hat there is a state of public feeling and opinion upon this question under circumstances which call upon your Lordships to give it your particular attention, and which make it necessary that your Lordships should think of it with more than ordinary interest and concern. Whatever may be thought of the liability to error (1 the part of the People, yet when general views on any given subject are entertked by large masses of the community, no wise statesman, no prudent legislator, would ever treat those views with neglect or disregard. Your Lordships know very well, that throughout all those towns where the name of a corporation exists, a long, deep-rooted, and settled opinion has prevailed, that the present constitution of those corporations is an usurpation ; that it is it deprivation of rights which formerly existed ; that it is an encroachment and an innovation upon the more popular form of the institutions which were established in these bus roughs by our ancestors. The public opinion is never so much to be regarded, or to be looked at with so much caution and respect, as when it is founded on a feel- ing of right, and when the people think they have been treated with injustice. Such are the feelings that have been manifested by the various corporate towns on this subject ; they therefore demand your Lordships particular consideration. Another circumstance which requires your Lordships serious attention is, that this is a question which peculiarly concerns the middle orders, and those who constitute the great bulk of the People. They feel it more, and consequently they understand it much better, than your Lordships. There may be questions upon which your Lordships may be able to form a better judgment than the bulk of the People ; but upon this question the People, I repeat, are much better judges than you are. They know intimately the workings of these corporations. There may be, in a local government, a system extremely partial—.a system ex- tremely troublesome—a system extremely annoying—a system extremely offen- sive, a system felt by everybody in the place to taint, as it were, the vci y air about them, making it noxious and hurtful to all but a few ; and yet, for alt this, it may be very difficult to detect any actual abuse, or to tix upon that which is, in fact, the real cause of the evil. This, then, my Lords, is a strong reason why you should pay particular attention to the feelings expressed by the People on this subject. But there is another reason : my Lords, I tell you that this is not only the feeling of the People, but it is a sound, it is a sincere feeling. It is in their hearts. It is nor a momentary feeling got up for the occasion—it is not a factitious feeling—( Great cheering)—it is not a feeling capable of being raised by exaggeration."

He then adverted to the disagreement on this subject between their Lordships and the House of Cointnons- " It is impossible not to feel that it is a very great misfortune when the three branches of the Legislature do not act at least with something like unanimity —when there is not something like agreement in their proceedings—when there is not something like sympathy in their feelings and opinions. My Lords, I feel this to be a very delicate subject to touch upon ; but, my Lords, I do say, that if any alienation between your Lordships and the House of Commons should be of long continuance, it would and must lead to consequences of the most disastrous kind.' Your Lordships well know—indeed it is too clear to be doubted or denied—that there is not that union and that sympathy between your Lordships and those 'who constitute the inajonity of the other House of Parlia- ment which it is desirable on all considerations should subsist. Your Lordships do not sympathize with a very considerable majority of the House of Commons. I beg your Lordships to recollect, that this bill passed the second relling in Cie House of Commons without any division - and not only so, but after it had un- dergone the scrutiny of a Committee, and after all the amendments which were moved had been negatived in that Committee, those who proposed such amend- ments did not think the bill, even though ;heir improvements were rejected, was so unfitted to pass into a law as to justify them to vote for its rejecticin ; but it was read also a third time without a division. I say, therefore, my Lord., that this ought to make you to pause before you determine to reject the bill so passed by the House of Commons. I call upon your LindShips to consider—to reflect. I do not speak this by way of menace, or in the way of intimidation. I offer it to your Lordships' calm judgment. But your Lordships will recollect, if you refuse to conciliate—if you refuse either to go into Committee, or to give this bill a fair consideration—you will be setting yourselves in opposition, not to a majority of the House of Commons that support the Ministers, but you will be setting yourselves in opposition to almost the whole of the House of Commons. You will be setting yourselves in opposition to the opinions of the People of England, collected, not from public meetings, to which objections may be made—collected, not from petitions presented to this House, to which objections may be made ; but you will be, and are, setting yourselves in oppo- sition to the opinions of the People of England, declared through the legitimate organs their Representatives in Parliament." ( Very great cheering.) The Duke of NEWCASTLE moved as an amendment on Lord Mel- bourne's motion, that the House should go into Committee that day six months. He lamented that he differed with. the Duke of Wel- lington and the highly-talented person in the other House on this Obit; but it was not for the first time— When the noble duke came forward as the advocate t if the mem, e for the repeal of the Test and Corporation Act. i n i also of the Bill fur the Einancipa- tion of the Roman Catholics, he stated his objections to those two rocasures, and warned their Lordships not to adopt them. Subsequent experience induced him to think that the warning he then ventured to give was not out of place. Subsequent experience taught himto think that it would have been well if his warning had been listened to with a more attentive ear. In the same way that he warned the House on the two former occasions to which he bad alluded, he begged to warn them now. He would have them beware how they adopted a bill of the description of that now under their consideration, 'He described the hill as a measure of spoliation ; and maintained that the House of Commons might vote away their Lordships' privi- leges with as much justice as they deprived Corporations of their right and property. Up to the year ISIS, no country was so prosperous as this ; for then the Peers trusted to their own wits, and eared little for the sort of light which emanated from another place. The bill never could be made a safe or just measure ; therefore it was vain to attempt to mend it in Committee. He disapproved of every part of it.

The Earl of MANSFIELD differed with the Duke of Newcastle as to the proper course to be pursued. He reminded the Peers'of the cir- cumstances under which the bill had been brought before the House— When the Reform Bill was passed, some of the supporters of that measure suppneed, and others avowed that it would be necessary, as an unavuidable con- sequence, to reform the system of Municipal Corporations. There was, he be- lieved, an address upon the subject from the House of Commons to the Throne. There was a Committee appointed upon the subject, of which Sir Robert Peel was a member, which showed that be was not indisposed to an inquiry into the matter. Subsequently the Commission, 1111011 whose report the present bill was founded, was issued ; and when Sir Robert Peel became First Minister of the Crown, he did not interrupt the labilurs of that Commission ; but, in the Speech which he advised his Majesty to deliver from the Throne, he held out the hope—a hope afterwards realized—that the Report of the Commissioners would shortly he laid before both Houses of Parliament—a Report which, in Sir Robert Peel's opinion at least, was to have some influence over any future legislation upon the subject. Under these circumstances, therefore, Lord Mans- field thought it was incumbent on their Lordships to give the bill a full and de- liberate consideration ; and it was from these circumstances: also, that he had heen induced to control, lie might say, the disgust which a measure so violent iu its aggression upon chartered tights and property had naturally inspired iu his mind.

The House ought calmly to consider the measure with a view to its amendment— With respect to the Reform Bill, although it was a measure invested with constitutional purer, it was in point of fact an act of violence. He n ferred to the protests which had been entered on their Lordships' journals, to prove that. But why were these circumstances recalled to their Lordships' mind now? And by whom were they so recalled?—Re one of the advisers of that act of violence. But whatever might have been the situation of their Lordships at the time of the passing of the Reform Bill, their situation was a very different one at present. They were free from the pressure which then weighed them down. Thee had recovered their elasticity and their independence. To the House of Lords the People, however low in station, looked for protection; and that pro. tectiun, when the Home of Lads was independent, they never denied. He did not say this in any spirit of exultation. But his wish was to impress upon their Lordships, as stunt:0y as he could, the necessity of discussing the measure be- fore them in all its bearings with calmness and deliberation ; so that, whatever resolution they might come to respecting it (and lie would not pretend to antici- pate what that resolution would be) might appear to the People to be evidently the dictate of justice, and not of prejudice.

The Earl of FALMOUTH would not be bound by the conduct of Sir Robert Peel, but would follow the dictates of his own conscience, and vote with the Duke of Newcastle.

The Duke of WELLINGTON agreed with much that had fallen from the Duke of Newcastle, he was strongly opposed to the principle of the measure, and many of its details-

" I think that the bill should have had the consent of his Majesty at an early stage of its progress. The King was the founder of these corporations, and he

was visitor competent to investigate the admiuistration of their funds. I con-

sider his Majesty should have given his consent to the measure before the enactment of the first clause. My. Lords, I besides object to this measure, because

it does not adequately, in myopinion, secure existing rights and privileges—he- cause it does not secure the rights of property—because it dues not secure the rights of individuals appointed for the term of their lives to situations under the

existing charters—and lastly, because it does not secure the privileges granted to freeinee under existing Acts of Parliament. For all these reasons, I object to the bill ; although 1 certainly shall vote for going into Committee upon it, with the intention of amending, as far as possible, those parts of the measure which I think are defective. I, besides, my Lords, object strongly to those portions of the bill which go to the establishment of a system by which persons may be elected to high and important situations in corporations—I mean to such situa- tions as those: of Magistrates and administrators of borough affairs—who have 10 adequate qualification for such a trust ; I object to persons having the management of parish affairs who are irresponsible fur their proper direction ; and I object to individuals being allowed to administer to Church patronage who are utterly without qualification for such a duty. These are points, my Lords, which require your attention—your gravest consideration : and should we decide upon going into Committee I pledged myself that, as far as an indi- vidual Member of this House is concerned, they shall met with both. I do not, 1 repeat, approve of the principle of this measure; but I ain one of those who admit that it is necessary the House should enter upon its consideration, with a view to the final and effectual removal of the evils complained of, and in some instances justly complained of, in the existing corporate system."

As to the Commissioners' Reports, he considered them as so much waste paper ; but still he would go into Committee, though with such defective data, with the view to amend the bill.

"My noble friend who preceded me appears to think that there is no evidence of dissatisfaction on the part of the People of England to the existing system of corporation management. ("Hear !" from the Earl of Falmouth.) Why, I cannot say that I have myself any evidence of the existence of such a dissatis- faction; but at the same time, I cannot possibly close my eyes upon the great change which within the last few years has taken place in the general aspect of eociety. I cannot conceal from myself, that in the course of a very few years the People of this realm have advanced greatly in riches, in knowledge, and in luxury, and that in proportion to that advance it is natural they should wish to have participation in the administration of Government. Such being the case, am not prepared to agree with my noble friend in saying that there is no desire entertained by the People of England that their Corporations should be thrown *pen to them ; and I am, consequently, disposed to consider whether the esta- blishment of a municipal system in this country, founded, in the first place, on the free election of those to whom the administration of corporate matters shall be confided—founded, likewise, on a very liberal basis of qualification, and with every view to render it such a system as will really carry into execution the ob- roct of this measure, namely, that of giving to the people who inhabit our large was a fair participation in their government—might not be a measure as well of sound policy as of expediency." (Loud cheering.) The Duke of CumBEFLANin could not vote with his sincerely re- spected friend the DOC of Newcastle; but would go into Committee ea the bill, and hoped that it would come out in such a state as would ,itiStifY his voting for the third reading. Lord Baoncitat could not persuade himself that the neat eager's/tem of the noble lords who had spoken, was not to defeat the bill. . 1V-e•allalF at a loss to understand why they, who declared themselves calleametree posed to the principle of the measure, should consent to go /not Gmso- mittee on its details— He could easily understand the course of noble lords if they said, We goers-in the main principle, though we are opposed to some details, said we r iotoCome- mittee for the purpose of tender ing these details suitable to our principles- r a would be an intelligible, consistent, as well as the ordinary course of pew-reeky- Rut that noble lords should say, We totally differ with the pt inciple ref this elan* sure ; we think the Commission illegal oa which the ireptiry was Pendell: see hold the proceedings of the Commissioners in executing their task to'beenijitete partial, and unfair ; we hold all their Reports to be more valadesaties.n eraeft paper (and false Reports must lie of less value than the most valetehrss wade paper), that this bill was founded on these Reports (and its foulidetion, woe- queutly, held to be rotten); that no charge against the Corporations was souk out ; that this was a 0IC:l■Ure which one noble lord said was one of spridatirmer rather of iniquity, and which a third declared to be uncalled fur, tint witicle 111 three pronounced in chorus to be an act fraught with injustice ; that es:meta& lords should come per sultan to the conclusten not to throw out the bill-at openly to oppose the measure, and declare themselves unutterably displeased Wilk its very visage, but that they should declare themselves openly onpoical lathe principle of the bill, whilst they express their willingness to go into GrmaiMse to see what could he done with the details,—all these cireurustancea really SUE his mind with astonish:vent. Ile could not help consider lag, that by this onweire one of two fates would await the measure, that, instead of living openly opposed and defeated, it would only he allowed to enjoy a bate leagering existence; ortiost it would he reduced from its pt istine state to such a skeleton that its own:pseawsi could not recognize it.

He defended the legality of tl'e Commission, and the conduct of dee Commissioners ; and remarked at length on some portion of the coiie deuce given at the bar. lie concluded by declaring his f.are as to mkt. would be the fate of the bill in Committee, but hoped it would,paes neatly in its present state.

The Duke of Newcastle's amendment was negatived,wirlhnrita+�isT- siou ; mid the House having gone into Committee pro forme, imaaedi- ately resumed, and then adjourned.

On the motion of Lord Memsouitem, the [Toltec went iota Com- mittee on Thursday. 'rime preamble and title of the bill werops5.- potted, and the first clause was agreed to. The second was props-sc.:I, Lord LYNDHURST then rose to move the insertion of a new Amos-- He prefaced his motion by a long speech in reply to the abservatenat of Lords Melbourne and Brougham on the previous evening. fie Cm- fended himself from the charge of having unfairly attacked the .-Crab.. ration Commissioners ; and maintained that his acenotiieso egos directed against :tI inisters, who had selected political partisaustosxmluct an inquiry whirls ought to have heen conducted with freedom freest *Amy bias. Ile then proceeded minutely to examinesotne portion of thee of the witnesses, which had been impugned by Lord Brougham; wheat absence from the House he regretted. Having despatched thislasat of his subject, Lord Lyndhurst proceeded to explain the nacre of -aim amendment he intended to propose; having first, however, eleeleted his approbation of that part of the measure which gave resideotivastee payers the right of voting for members of the Tmem-Cottacil. clause was intended to preserve to freemen and their descendatiem perpetuity, the rights they now possessed in the property of Cet pee. rations; but provided, that in future freeclum should not he solaice.Z by gift or purchase. lie read several extractsfrom the evidence, eeftlsa Corporation witnesses in proof of the considerable value of this seams- perty. It would be a gross and a very dangerous invasion of the. TOM of property, were the House to sanction the abolition of the foseaxerdo rights. Ile concluded by moving a clause to the effeet explained.

Lord :AIELBOURNE reiterated the charge of unjustly treetireg lase Commissioners, which he had before advanced agaiast Lewd leeesie burst- " The noble and learned lord had said in his spec!, that they Were tiLizer--- nun use than Whigs. He knew very well what was the nicauing of teat teepees.- sion : it meant that those gentlemen entertained extreme opinions. If it iwi been stated of the noble and learned lord when he was at the bar :hot be was more than Whig, he would have thought it extremely unjust; eon- doubtedly, if any man had acted upon the general reputation of the nehle sad. learned lord—upon the opinions of the noble and learned lord, as expromtne, collected from the report of the most intimate friends and companions at taw noble and learned lord..--( Immense cheering from the Ministered Versate)— the noble and learned lord would, undoubtedly, have been so ebaractericer- Why, the noble and learned lord admitted it—he dial not deny it." (Clwerr..) Lord LYNDHURST rose, amidst loud cries of " Orderl" said- " I am perfectly in oiler. The noble lord says I admit it. My...coke I never did admit it. I do not admit it; nor is there the slightest fored; for the statement. (Cheers.) I heard of the attack and repelled R sad never was renewed till lately. It is a base calumny, and I give it the attest as qualified contradiction."

Lord AIELBOURNE resumed his speech- " The noble and learned lord says that he had heard it before,—that lie heard it stated of him. I know it to be erroneous, my Lords, because I atom the authority of the noble and learned lord for saying so; I know it to be a ex- lumny ; I know it to be a falsehood, since the noble and learned lord se alma"- terizes it: but at the same time, the noble and learned lord should lune tie same toleration for others which he demands for himself. ( Great Acetyl.") The same erroneous impression may prevail with respect to others, which Ile believe, from all the knowledge I have on the subject at least, did.prera- undoubtedly most erroneously—with reference to the noble and learned-lend."

After maintaining that the evidence of the Corporation witnesses's:la not in the slightest degree invalidated the essentials, the real streweetIr.'t of the Report of the Commissioners,—and remarking upon the ieeezze- tice of an assertion of the Duke of Wellington, that the esideasee had been kept back, because it would not tally with the Report,- Lamil Melbourne declared his opposition to the clause proposed by Laid Lyndhurst ; which went to preserve rights extremely prejudicial ao those who held them, and which were founded on usurpation.

The Earl of HADDINGTON supported the new clause. Ile doe& upon the necessity of guarding the rights of poor men, snit en tree danger to the property of the richest individuals that would arisefreou tampering with them.

The Duke of WELLINGTON made a few brief observations en Ow inconvenience of postponing replies to speeches made one nigh:to lbw

next night ; and said that he had founded his charge against the Com- missioners, to which Lord Melbourne had referred, on a train of rea- soning which had not been refuted.

Lord BROUGHAM said, that doubtless the reason why Lord Mel- bourne had not replied on the previous night to the Duke of Welling- ton, was that he (Lord Brougham) had taken upon himself the burden of the debate on the Ministerial side of the question—(" Hear, hear !" from Lord Wiehlow)—and why not, if Lord Melbourne did not repu- diate his assistance ? However, the answer had been given by Lord Melbourne in the Duke of Wellington's presence; but how had he been treated ?

Lord Wtext.ow—" You did not come in till half. past seven!"

Lord BROUGHAM--." I did not come in till half-past seven ! is that the charge? Perhaps it is an impeachable offence—a great moral iniquity. (" Hear, hear !" from Lord Wicklow.) The noble lord says it is a great moral iniquity."

Lord WICKLOW—" I said no such thing."

Lord Bnoectrast bandied a few more words with Lord 1Vicklow ; and then reminded the House of the assiduous attention he paid to his Parliamentary duties. He complained in bitter terms of the attack upon him by Lord Lyndhurst in his absence-

" But no doubt the zeal of my noble and learned friend in the cause of his clients, the Corporations, made it incumbent on him to treat me as the Coin- missioners have beeu treated : they were attacked in their absence, and 1, their defender, have been replied to behind my back. Yes, my Lords, see that not only do a large majority of you think that it was proper to attack, convict, and condemn the Commissiouers in their absence, but that it was also .proper to at- tack, convict, and condemn me, the defender of those Commissioners, in my absence. (" Queation, question .1") Yes, and that one or two of you cry Question!' when I undertake to meet this attack, from a total ignorance of my nature, and of my habits of life; from a fooli.li, and ridiculous, and absurd notion, that, that by crying Question !' they can put me down. Why, I have stood up against half the House of Commons when they have cried Question!' for three quarters of an hour, and they could not put me down. Catalinw gladios coutempsi ; non twos per tiniest:am.' I know what it is to stand up against three hundred men, pretending to be the Representatives of the People who have attempted to drown the voice of one man—who was their real iriend and representative—and they did nut succeed ; and do you think that one of you, by crying Question !' can put me down?" (" Order, order .11 The Earl of Rossevar spoke to order, but was wholly inaudible in the Gallery. Lord 13noue Han (without leaving his seat) said, " I have done."

The Earl of RIPON declared his intention of supporting Lord

Lyndhurst's clause.

The Earl of IlanNon opposed it ; and expressed his astonishment at the assertion of Lord Lyndhurst, that the, evidence given at the bar was conclusive against the Commissioner;' Ilepot t.

" Ile would venture to say, that the noble and learned lord, wl.en sittirg in a court of justice, would nut have hung a cat upon such es idcnce as tint. What was the case ? Hem were herons coining to the bar a nlying to their Lord- ships to hear their evidence ; they were themselves the witnesses, and the in- structors of counsel; there was nothing offered on the other side ; ;hey were the interested party; they draw the In kis On more than One a;:easion he had seen the witees, sanest quest;,,es lathe counsel; and on ?WWI' Anti Mit• wet shot, also, he had seen the w:tness joy runt the counsel jii.m potting gm:slimes, to which he supposed it would rent to possible to vire a swisfi:ctot y Would it be said that the evidence so obtained was of a character that would justify their Lordships in acting upon it?"

Corporation ,nooperty lied been spoken of as if it were the real in- defeasible property of the freemen ; whereas it was property that might be diminished to an indefinite extent by the persons who had the management of it— It was said that the freemen highly valued this property ; he did not believe that to be the fact, although it was true that those who had the management of it were very anxious to keep it. How could property be of any great value to a numerous body of freemen, who, as in the case of Leicester, were liable to have their members increased by no less than 800 shareholders iu one year?

Lord SEGRAVE had always been on the Liberal—even the Ultra Liberal—side in politics; but he very much regretted to perceive the violent manner in which their Lordships were attacked by some of the pretended friends of his party. He was intimately connected with a very ancient Corporation as their High Steward ; and, considering himself bound to protect the rights of the members of that Corporation, which he knew to be very valuable, should support Lord Lyndhurst's motion.

Lord SKELMEISSDALE spoke briefly in support of the clause.

Lord PLUNKETT replied to the argument that the rights of freemen were equivalent to the rights of property. This he denied— They had nothing in them indefeasible, hereditary, or acquired by industry or labour : they devolved on them in their political and not in their private cha- racter—as portions of a public body, not as individuals. They were not direct rights ; therefore they were only incidental to their public capacity. If the bill went to take away the direct rights of property, Lord Plunkett should feel it his duty to concur entirely with Lord Lyndhurst, however dependent these rights might be even on the select body or corporation. In that case, lie should say that to adopt the principle would be to admit a very dangerous precedent, which in the end would be subversive of all tenure of property and all rights thereto. Property, if held in a direct right, however precariously it might be circum- stanced, should never be infringed on. But the bill before their Lordships did no such thing. It was introduced for a totally ibfferent object. It was not for taking away rights of any kind, direct or indirect, but for regulating the in- ternal constitution of corporations. If the indirect rights of freemen were inci- dentally affected by it, it was only because the possessors were members of these corporations, and it affected them only in their corporate capacity The same argument urged in favour of incidental rights in this instance, and their inviolability, might be urged with equal force and efficacy in the care. of any alteration in any department of the State, whereby the interests of individuals would be injured. The rights in question were public rights, derived to the possessors in their politic charcter; and, as such, subject to the public good. He spoke as a lawyer on the subject. Unless they could be dealt with as the Legislature saw fit; there was an end to all improvements in public matters.

The Marquis of NORTHAMPON said, the question before the House was not whether an injustice should be done to the present race of freemen, or their immediate descendants,—for that was capable of being remedied ; but whether an injustice should be done the genera- don or generations which might succeed them. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE denied that the right of freeriren par- took of the nature of private or individual property— It was vested in a certain class of persons as a political privilege in reward for their performance of certain public duties; and it was inseparably con- nected in the idea of the grantee, as well as in that of the person granting it_ whetherit ware a King or a private person—with the performance of certain public conditions. It was absurd to suppose that it was from any especial affection to the class called freemen that it was granted ; and, therefore, tt did not follow that it was perpetual if these duties were to be neglected, or the sti- pulations to remain unperformed. The right was granted as a public ti ust- as a reward far the performance of certain public duties. It did not, however, follow that it was to be for ever. if that principle were admitted, the offices and emoluments of Admirals' Generals, Aldermen of London, and other (aces of a character, should be perpetual as to emolument and hereditary as to succession; and the Parliament would be bound to uphold their rights and defend their privileges. If the question arose on inchoate rights, it should be carried into all parts of the subject. The inchoate rights of the freemen had been spoken of by the noble lord, but he had forgotten to mention the inchoate rights possessed by every inhabitant as well as freeman. The very poorest in- habitant had an inchoate right to be free ; but he was stripped of it by the exclusive privilege hitherto enjoyed by the Corporations.

The Committee divided: for the amendment, 130; against it, 37; majority against Ministers, 93.

Lord LYNDHURST then moved the insertion of a clause to continue to the descendants of existing freemen the right of voting for Mem- bers of Parliament.

Lord :MELBOURNE briefly, but resolutely, opposed the clause. With so large a majority against him, however, be declined dividing the Committee.

After a brief discussion, the clause was ordered to he inserted. Another clause was then inserted, on the motion of Lord LYND- HURST, tc the effect- " That time Towelled: of every borough should, on or before the 25tit of October next, make out a list of all the freemen on the toll who had been admitted as burgesses

of such borough; and that when bezeafter any claim of atimissitia should be made.

and. after examination, established, that the name or t he person making that successful claim should be entered oil the roll : and that the Town-Clerk should make out a copy of the roll to be open for inspeetion, without expense at all reasonable tines; and

deliver of it, on the payment of a reasonable reastmeratiou, to any peisous require

ins reply to a question by Lord Mer.nounste, Lord LYNDHURST said that he did not wish to preserve the rights of freemen for .Mturicipal purposes.

On the clause which provides that the boundaries of Parliamentary boroughs shall be the boundaries of the new [Municipal boroughs, and that the boundaries of others shall be fixed by the King in Council,

The Duke of WELLINGTON moved, that the boundaries of boroughs which were not Parliamentary boroughs should remain as they then were, until otherwise determined by Parliament.

Lord Mer.touttse said, the effect of this amendment would be great delay.

Lord BROUGHAM said, it would delay the operation of the Lill twelve -months at least.

It was ordered, however, to stand part of the bill.

Clause 5th was pestpolied. Clauses 6th arid 7th were agreed to ; with im alteration to the 6th, which makes the payment of the Borough- rate in addition to the Poor-rate, necessary to qualify a person to vote for Town-Councillors. The Committee then rose.

Last night, the House being again in Committee, Lord LYNDHURST moved to strike out the second proviso of the Sth clause ; the effect of which would be to allow persons in indifferent circumstances to be placed on the list of votes.

Viscount Met.souatee was unwilling to offer factious opposition to the bill of Lord Lyndhurst, and would not oppose the motion: he should prefer retaining the proviso notwithstanding.

After a few words from Lords LYNDHURST and PLUNKETT, the proviso was struck out, and the clause agreed to.

Clause 9th was agreed to ; clause 10th was struck out ; the 11th was passed ; but clauses 12th and 13th, being superseded by Lord Lynd- hurst's clauses of the previous night, were expunged.

The 14th and 15th clauses were passed.

On the 16th clause being proposed, Lord LYNDHURST rose to propose an amendment, with a view to establish a qualification for the office of Town-Councillor. A pecuniary qualification did not always in- sure the election of corn eetent persons, but it bad a tendency to that effect. There were considerable difficulties in the way of fixing a qua- lification, but it had occurred to him that the following plan might be adopted— He proposed that the rate-payers should be divided into a certain number of classes. and that from the highest of these classes the persons should be chosen who should be selected to administer the affairs of the borough. Acting upon this principle, lie pro- posed that the mate.p.myers should be divided into six classes, and that the one-sixth of those who paid the highest amount of rates should be those from whom the Couucillors should be selected. This principle lie thought would be more easily applied in all cir- cumstances than any other which Ito could recommend ; and hoped that their Lordships would apply it to all the towns and boroughs which came within the opera- tion of the bill. For the purpose of carrying this amendment into effect, it would be necessary that another list besides the burgess list should be prepared by the Over- seers, and he proposed that the list should be liable to objection in the same manner as the list of burgesses. Lord BROUGHAM utterly denied the utility of the amendment, and maintained that fit persons were more likely to be chosen if there were no pecuniary qualification. It was absurd to imagine that men of sub- stance would select beggars to represent them : yet the argument for qualification assumed that, if any thing. If the amendment were

adopted,

Be the person ever so respectable—be lie looked up to as the best burgess of the town—be he ever so noted for his integrity, his sagacity. his powers of mind. his expe- rience in offices of public trust—all, all would be pleaded in vain. Hs must be es- eluded. No voter can raise Isis voice in his favour, if he wishes his vote nut to go for nothing. He is necessarily excluded by this inexorable rule if he has but one pennyless than the numerical fraction of one-sixth to which Lord Lyndhurst would limit ft Would any of their Lordships say that this was not a most grievous absurdity ? A when Lord Lyndhurst talked of novelties and innovations, was not this one of the- greatest novelties and most alarraiug innovations that err had been brought heroin their Lordships? Ile did out Wieve, that in all the •politioak commercial, or private measures which lie had ever 'disown to be brought boom I'Mdtarneut, there was ever, such an innovation as this. The principle of taking one-sixth of the ratepayers, and Making them only eligible, was to this time quite unknown, la every tuber C.10011.1pari• might acquire a qualification. lie might acquire a qualification for Member of Par- liarneut ; nod but for that power the country would have been deprived of the services of many of the most distirguished members of the other House of Parliament—men who edified the world by their wisdom. and charmed it by their eloquence, but oho would not have had an opportunity of setting a Mot in the House of Commons if the rule in that case was inflexible. The eligibility in the present case was confined to one limited elass; and between that class and all others a bar was laid, across which no man could set his Mot. The propositiou was not only an alarming novelty, but in principle it was neither founded upon reL.sou nor common sense. It was not founded upon enlarged and liberal times, for it was founded upon the principle of exclusiveness. It was rounded ou the worst principle of exclusiveness to the aristocracy or oligarchy of wealth. He knew that the adoption of such an amendment would be fatal to the working of the bill. (Loud cheers from the MiniAerial bemlies.) It would be just as well for their Lordships to say that the bill should not pass at all. Gracious had the People uo person to speak for them under the Aristocracy ? Was only one• sixth to be represented, and were the rest to be stigmatized as the proposition would stigmatize them only because they were poor? By this a bachelor who took an ex- travagant house might become a member of the Council ; but if he married, lived pru- dently, and became a respectable father of a family, he might be excluded from taking any part in the affairs of the town. This was an innovation the most surprising, for it was one which could never have been adopted in even the worst of times.

Lord WICKLOW said that by the Irish Grand Jury Act a qualifica- tion for jurymen was required.

The Earl of DEVON remarked, that something analogous to the amendment of Lord Lyndhurst might be found in the new Poor-law.

Lord WHARNCLIFFE was in favour of the amendment.

The Duke of RICHMOND and the Earl of RIPON opposed it.

Lord PLUNKETT did not think qualification necessary in cases of popular election—

Rot even if a qualification were conceded, of all he had ever known that of Lord Lyndhurst was the most extraordinary : it was without example and had no precedent. An individual was to be excluded from the office of Councillor, not because he had no property, but because his neighbour had more than he ; not because he was wanting in talent, integrity, experience, capacity for business, and general fitness, but because other persons paid a higher rate for their houses. It would be far better to say to the boroughs there shall be no Corporation Reform, titan to insult them with such a mockery as that. He would take the case of a borough with twelve hundred inhabitants as an illustration of the argument : if two hundred individuals among them paid a higher rate than the rest, those alone were to be entitled to the Magisterial offices. and all the other thousand were to be excluded. If Lord Lyndhurst had wished to muck at the people he could have taken no more eflicieut means to further his purposes.

The Duke of BUCCLEUCII said, that it was a mistake to suppose that no qualification was required for Councillors in the Scotch Burghs, for it was expressly provided that those only should be electors or Councillors who possessed the 101. qualification.

Lord HADDINGTON confirmed this statement.

Lore RADNOR opposed the amendment.

The Duke of WELLINGTON supported it.

Lord GLENELG said, the amendment struck at once at the very prin. ciple of the bill, and would be utterly destructive of it.

Lord ELLENBOROUGII was certain that the opponents of the amend- ment were not aware how large a body of persons would still be eligible under its provisions. In Shrewsbury there would be still 648 persons eligible ; in Doncaster, 400; in Maidstone, 500; in Northampton, 590. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said, the amendment would disqualify five-sixths of the rate-payers of England. It was a dangerous prin.. ciple to exclude persons who had been called demagogues, persons— that is, who had obtained a certain influence over their fellow citizens —from a seat in the governing body; they would be far less dangerous if admitted.

From his experience lie was sure that, in the long run, the choice of the People of

England. especi nit!' reference to those who were to have the superintendence of motley affairs, would fall upon persons of property. And he was also persuaded that, under the operation of the proposed clause, persons of wealth would be frequently ex- cluded. lle knew a case of a person who was rated at a low rate, only for a shop, but who was a person of wealth, living out of the town, and who would come under the bar of the proposed exclusion.

Lord MELBOURNE said, that the amendment was contrary to the principle of the bill, contrary to the feelings of Englishmen, and would be productive of general discontent. It required not that the indivi- duals elected should be positively rich, but that they should be the richest persons in the towns where they resided: This was an entirely new principle.

Although be did not approve of the amendments which had already been introduced into the bill, he was anxious that the bill should pass and become the law of the land ; but he was convinced that nothing could be more likely to produce a contrary result than the adoption of the amendment now proposed. He was convinced that if that amendment became law, it would be productive of the most aristocratical and oligar- chical feelings,—that it would he productive of feelings alien and hostile to the People at large. and abhorrent to the spirit of the times ; and he believed in his conscience, therefore, that the adoption of it by their Lordships would be fatal to the bill.

Lord LYNDHURST said, his object was the preservation of property. The principle of qualification bad been uniformly acted on : it had

been adopted in the Scotch Municipal Bill, and in the Poor-law. Ills principle was not a narrow one : had he taken a fourth instead of a sixth, it would have embraced all the 101. voters. He was as anxious as Lord Melbourne that the bill should pass. The subject had created great excitement and agitation. He was therefore anxious that the bill should be passed in such a shape that, if it did not meet with favour, it might find tolerance in the other House of Parliament.

After a few words from Lord WESTMEATH,

Lord LYNDHURST said he would modify his clause, so anxious was he to meet the views of the noble lords opposite. He then went' to the table, and read his modified clause, very inaudibly. Lord BROUGHAM said, he had better take the 101. qualification .at once.

Lord LYNDHURST said he would not.

Lord BROUGHAM—" Then I shall vote against you."

V The Committee divided : for the amendment, 120; against it, 39; majority against Ministers, 81. - In reply to a question from Lord BROUGHAM', Lord LYNDHURST mid, the limitation to one sixth stands in the clause at present; but

when the bill was recommitted, he should maturely consider the pro- priety of altering it. The Earl of DEVON considered that he had merely voted on the question of qualification or no qualification. On the recommitment of the bill he proposed to move an amendment, " with a view of enabling persons qualified by property, though not in the first class of rate-payers, to claim election to the office of Councillor.-

Some conversation occurred as to the progress of the measure. Lord

LYNDHURST said, as far as he was concerned, the bill should be got through the Committee on Monday and Tuesday.

Other clauses, down to the 23d inclusive, were passed; and the Committee rose.

2. him CORPORATION REFORM.

In the House of Commons, on Wednesday, the bill for regulating Municipal Corporations in Ireland was read a second time, on the mo- tion of Lord MORPETH ; after some opposition from Mr. SHAW, ME. C. BARCLAY, and Mr. LEFROY.

On Thursday, the House went into Committee on the bill. The only discussion was on the 6th clause, which fixes the qualification of voters.

Mr. D. CALLAGHAN moved, that the qualification should be the same for Municipal as for Parliamentary voters.

Mr. Sergeant PERRIN could not agree to this proposition ; the effect of which would be to extend the right of voting to a constituency of 2/. and 3/. voters.

Mr. O'CONNELL, Mr. O'BRIEN, Mr. W. ROCHE, Dr. 13Atown4 Mr. Wyse, and Mr. WARBURTON, urged Ministers to give way on this point.

Lord MORPETH asked Mr. Callaghan to withdraw his amendment for the present, in order to give Ministers time to consider of it, and see if any modification could be made. Mr. CALLAGHAN withdrew his amendment; and the clause was

ordered pro for to stand part of the bill. The remaining clauses were agreed to, with the schedules and pre- amble ; and the House resumed.

3. ORANGE LODGES.

On Monday, Mr. HUME moved the appointment of a Select Com- mittee to inquire into the Orange Lodges of Great Britain and the Colonies.

Dr. Nrcirott moved, an account of the lateness of the hour, that the House should adjourn.

Mr. PRINGLE supported the amendment Mr. SPRING RICE and Mr. WALLACE supported the original motion. Mr. WALLACE said, that this was a question which did not affect England only.

It had been shown that the Governor of Edinburgh Castle—the Duke of Gordon—was Deputy Grand Master for Scotland. He was not only Governor of the Castle of the capital of Scotland, but Colonel of the Royals—the First Regiment of the Line. It was high time to look with the strictest scrutiny into the ramifications of this most extraordinary question. It was not to be borne that the Army should be entrapped into political associations, and have the example before them of the Governor of Edinburgh Castle and the Colonel of the Royals belonging to an illegal institution. There must be the strictest investigation into this Orange plot. It was impossible to say to what extent it went. They did not know that it was not meant to subvert the succession to the Throne. He would assert in his place in Parliament, if it was not meant to do so, it might be followed by an event so much to be dreaded. (Cheers.) On the P2th of July last, Orange riots had broken out in several parts in Scot- land; and no doubt they were connected with this general organization ; and all the circumstances which had led to this state of things ought to be, and must be, closely examined into immediately. The Orange Lodge system, it now appeared pervaded the three kingdoms ; and he was so thoroughly im- pressed with the belief that the Illustrious Personage to whom reference had so often been made was deeply implicated in it, that nothing short of a most searching investigation could satisfy him to the contrary.

Several other Members spoke in favour of the immediate appoint- ment of the Committee ; some for postponement at least.

The House divided on the question of adjournment: for it, 14; against it, 39.

Lord SANDON moved the adjournment again : for his motion, 14, against it, 40. A brief debate ensued; and a third division took place on the ques- tion of adjournment ; which was again negatived, by 42 to 15. It was finally agreed that no unfair opposition should be given the next day to the motion for a Committee ; and on this agreement the House ads journed, at a quarter to four o'clock.

On Tuesday, on the motion of Mr. Hume, a Select Committee was appointed to inquire into the origin, nature, extent, and tendency of the Orange Institutions in Great Britain and the Colonies.

Mr. HUME then moved that the adjourned debate on his resolutions respecting the Orange Lodges in the Army be resumed. He stateda that he intended to withdraw the 5th and 6th resolutions, and to per• sist only in those which had reference to the prevalence of Orangeisna in the Army.

Mr. FINCH, in a long and desultory speech, opposed the resolutions: He maintained that the Duke of Cumberland knew no more of the existence of Orange Lodges in the Army than the Emperor of Mo.. rocco. He said that the Orangemen were the main supporters of thei Union of England and Ireland ; that they were the really loyal sub-, jects of the King,—as was proved by the peaceful condition of Ulstera while so large a body of troops was necessary to preserve order in the South of Ireland; that the establishment of Orange .Lodges was en-' cusable as a means of opposing the plots of the disaffected Catholics; that partisan feelings in the Armywere to be deprecated, but that Parliament should beware' how it alienated the feelings of theirish Protestants from tilt British connexion.

Lord EBRINGTON said, that the ignorance of the Duke of Ctnnber.: land did not take away his responsibility for the illegal acts which he had sanctioned. He would admit that the Duke believed to be true what he had stated in his letter to the Chairman of the Orange Com- mittee; but how could this fact of his ignorance be reconciled with the evidence, by which,-Lord Ebrington mast say, every word of Mr. Huise's resolution was supported ? Colonel WINER came to a difilrent opinion on the evidence, front that which Lord Ebrington avowed— Notwithstanding the report which he had read of the proceedings that had taken place at a meeting at which the Illustrious Duke presided, he was eon. winced that that Illustrious Duke did believe, when he wrote his letter to the Committee, that it contained nothing but a perfectly correct statement ; it being the case that the reports of that kind were made up afterwards by the junicfc

ject, as strong proof against the possibility of his joining a society established on " So late as this very -the principles of Orangeism as they now prevailed. The lodge to which the re

who at present belonged to Orange Lodges? of him to revive the old college play of Ignoramus ; the principal character'. Sir EDWARD UODRINGTON warned the HOUSe against suffering to be performed by Alexander Perceval, Harry Maxwell, and his Royal High- Orange Lodges to contaminate the Navy. The loyalty of Orangemen ness the Duke of Cumberland. (Loud laughter.) His Royal Highness has in 1798 had been eulogized ; but in that year a mutiny broke out in the written a letter. Ile never heard of Orange Lodges in the Army—never heard Navy, from the establishment of such a society as that of the Orange of the orders of 1822 and 1829—of the rule of the Orange body, that every Lodges. having carried a resolution, on a division, to establish ()range Lodges in the Mr. SHELL wished it to be borne in mind, that the evidence given Army, of the printed book of warrant*, in which the list of military warrants before the Committee was in great part that of Orange functionaries is contained ; neither does his Royal Highness recollect having been present, themselves— when in 1831, 1882, 1833, and IE35, watrants were granted, while he was in The Member for Armagh (Colonel Verner), who is Deputy Grand Master the chair, to military men, and actually a soldier attended as representative of and Viceroy to the Duke of Cumberland, had been upon three several days his regiment. His Royal Highness does not bear all this in mind, and is utterly produced as a witness in favour of the Orange Institution, and as an encomiast ignorant of the introduction into the Army of the lodges of which he is the of himself. Mr. Swan, the Deputy Grand Secretary ; Mr. Stewart Blacker, Grand Master. Heaven forbid that I should question the truth of his Royal the Assistant Grand Secretary; Mr. Baker, another Grand Assistant (of these Highness's allegation: I fly in the midst of difficulties, which might startle the grandees there was no end) ; Mr. Ward, the Grand Solicitor, and Mr. Morti- belief of men of less accommodating credulity than mine, to the theology of my trier O'Sullivan (a gentleman most competent to give evidence with respect to religion, and get rid of all embarrassments by exclaiming, ' Credo quia imposs both religions, for he indulged in the " pleasures of memory " with respect to sibile est.'" (Roars of laughter.) the one, and in the " pleasures of hope " with respect to the other. (Laughter.) Was it fitting that any British subject should possess the power which All, in short, of the chief officers of the Orange Institution had been examined. the Grand Master of the Orangemen had acquired ?

Their own journals, annals, and records, bad been resorted to. The Orange " He is declared, by the rules of the English Grand Lodge, to he absolute body had ostentatiously made profit of these documents ; and from these and uncontrolable. He is addressed with a species of prophetic greeting, sources, conclusions, not only beyond doubt, but beyond dispute, had been de- ' Hail, that shall be King hereafter !' I acquit him (and I am quite sincere)

awed. of a design so preposterous as that of iuterfering. with the succession : if be is It had been said that. the establishment of Orangeism had been pro- ever to be King, a legitimate Sovereign and nothing else shall be ever be. But auctive of peace, order, and the impartial administration of justice in if, instead of having hi. foot on the steps of the throne, he is destined to be Ireland ; but let the truth of these assertions be inquired into— seated in it,--if, by some fatality, England shall be deprived of the Princess, The Orange Grand Lodge have defended a series of prosecutions instituted the object of her affection and of her hope—(Loud and long-continued cheers) against the members of this turbulent fraternity by the Crown. An Orangeman —that Princess who, if maternal virtues are hereditary, must he wise, and just, in the streets of Dundalk strikes with a knife a Roman Catholic dead—he is and kind, and gentle, and good—(Reiterated cheers),—if, Sir, the Imperial prosecuted, convicted of manslaughter, and sentenced to two years' imprison.. Grand Alaster is fated to be the Sovereign of this vast empire, I trust that he anent : his defence was conducted by the Orange body. Certain Orange will look to the just support of the People, to their confidence and their loyalty rioters at Newry were sentenced to sixteen months' imprisonment : to these for the sustainment of his rightful prerogative ; but that by a hundred thousand loalefactors the Orange Grand Lodge extended their pecuniary all and con • Irish Janissaries the throne of Ernest the First will never be surrounded." ducted their defence. They not only defended, but prosecuted. Three Ma- Mr. RANDI.E PLUNKETT admitted that he was cognizant of the ex- Ziatrates in Cavan dispersed an Orange procession ; the Grand Orange Lodge istence of Orange Lodges in the Army ; but he bowed to the opinion detennined to institute a prosecution against the civil authorities who had the of military men that they should not be allowed to exist—

audacity to interfere with them : they sent down to Cavan their solicitor,

Mr. Wood, and the Grand Jury threw out the bills. At the last Meath elec.. It was said that their existence was against military discipline ; but they could have been much more readily put down by a circular letter from the Horse tion, a body of two hundred Orangemen, gathered from the adjacent counties,

entered the town of Trim. They filled the Court-house : a dagger is seized in Guards, than by following the course Mr. Hume proposed. Irish country gen- tle hand of one of them by the High Sheriff; they spread confusion and Haman might be in error in joining this institution ; but it should be recollected, d

dismay, and after having enacted their part, they return to the town of Kelly. that at the time they di so, there were 220,000 Orangemen in Ireland. They Bare they meet a Roman Catholic : they put him to death ; they are prose- had one of two courses to pursue. They might attempt to put down these so. rented ; and the Grand Orange Lodge, by a specific resolution, advances money cieties ; but it was probable, if they did make the attempt, that the members to conduct the defence. Ina Prayer-book, a notice of Orange assassination is of them would rise in opposition. (Loud cheering.) On the other hand, written. Sir Frederick Stoven, and his subordinate, Mr. Duff, who was em- they might put themselves at the head of these societies, and endeavour to lead

played in the Police, had incurred the displeasure of the Orangemen of Tyrone ;

and in the Prayer-book belonging to the wife of Mr. Duff—which she had left in Mr. HORACE Twrss wished Orange and Riband, and all secret so- the church which she had been in the habit of attending au Orange notice, threat- cieties, to be put down ; but thought that Mr. Hume should withdraw ening death— death to Sir F. Stoven and to her husband—is written. Almost bis resolutions, the object of which had been gained. The real aim of immediately after, a meeting is called at Dungannon, at which the Orangemen Mr. Hume, however, was to make a covert attack on the Duke of appear in considerable force, with military music, and invested with the factious Cumberland.

and offensive decorations. A scene of great excitement ensues, a musket is discharged at Sir F. Stoven, and the bail whistles at his ear. What, the House Sir E. HAYES asked what was to be done ? will ask—atrocious as the circumstances may appear—what has all this to do He called upon his Majesty's Ministers to consider seriously the taking of any with the administration of justice? At that meeting, attended with se many measures against a great political confederacy, bound together for the support of incidents of a revolting character, Lord Claude Hamilton was made an Orange- the Union of the two countries. What were the Government to do with them? man—he was initiated at the house of a publican of the name of Lilburne; and They might censure the Magistrates, and heap odium on the body ; but in what

immediately afterwards he was made a Magistrate. (Loud cheers.) way were they to disperse the great phalanx ? Mr. Shiel had not yet done with his facts— Lord JOHN RUSSELL had hoped that a more satisfactory explanation At the last Spring Assizes for the county of Armagh, three Orangemen were would have been made on behalf of the Duke of Cumberland—

prosecuted for marching in a procession: Baron Pennefather suggested to them, lie did not think it would have been very difficult (supposing all that had with a view to a mitigation of their sentence, that they ought to express regret been stated on the other side of the House to be correct) to have given such an for having violated the law : what was their reply ? did they intimate their explanation ; but instead of this, they had nothing further from his Royal contrition ? did they declare their determination never to commit a similar Highness than an assurance that he signed blank warrants, and that if it were outrage on the public peace again ?—No, Sir, in open court, and in the face of the Judge, the audacious confederates whistled an air called "the Protestant any regiments, he Boys." And what, do you conjecture, was their sentence? Not two years'

imprisonment, not one year, not six months : No, Sir, the learned Judge the utmost candour asked for by the honourable Member for Drogheda to this imprisonment, tempers Great cheering.) I was in hopes,—taking for granted, which I am perfectly imprisonment of three weeks. (Load cries of " Hear ! ") The Dorchester

labourers were sentenced to transportation for seven years, and the Orange ma- ready to do, however circumstances may appear to lead to a contrary conclusion,. lefactors are sentenced to an imprisonment for three weeks ! How has the Orange Society affected the peace of the country ? We are told that Ulster is ing f the resolutions at Lord Kenyon's had been carried on without the kuo . in a state of profound and most prosperous repose ; but by the evidence what

appears?—In the broad open day, a body of Orange incendiaries enter a Roman was in hopes, and (lid expect, that when those persons discovered the court officer a ut the institunon, without the In rwledge of the senior Wheels', so that -Catholic village, called A nagagh and in the face of the noon-tide sun, to the the Illustrious Duke might have no kno.vledge of it. ( Cries of " Oh, oh !" homes of the Roman Catholic inhabitants set fire : they then retire to a bill and " No!") Honourable gentlemen might gum, but he stated that from called Kinuigo, to the number of near two hundred ; they form themselves in

authority. military array, and await the arrival of the Police troops. Sir F. Striven He then eulogized the loyalty of the Orangemen ; and declared, that advances at the head of the military, with a piece of artillery, in order to dis- if Orangeism were put down, nothing would be left to maintain the perse them ; the Magistrate by whom be is attended declines giving an order Union between England and Ireland. to fire; and the Orangemen, with eloped arms in martial order, and with mar-

tial music, bidding and looking defiance, march away. (" Hear, hear, hear !") Mr. G. WILBRAHAM adverted to the statement in the Duke of Cum- how were they armed ? With Yeomanry muskets. The entire Yeomanry berland'a letter, that an Orange Lodge had existed for many years in force of Ireland is in fact enrolled in the Orange Associations; and when a con- the Fourth Regiment— diet ensue' with the People, the consequences are easily foreseen : witness the Now he had the honour to be a member of the institution established in that slaughters of which they have been guilty, the blood in which they have waded, regiment; and he could unhesitatingly state, that his Royal Highness was mis- the horrors which they have perpetrated—witness Newtownbarry. 'informed, or laboured under a gross error, if supposed that the lodge in that There is an Orange ordinance that all regiments in the Army shall regiment was an Orange Lodge, in the sense in which that term was at present be considered districts : it is the 1.5th rule of 1824—of this rule the lindermtood. lie might appeal to his known principles, not only since he be-

Grand Master never heard !-

carne a Member of that House, but since he could form an opinion on any year, in the Grand Orange Lodge of Ireland, a warrant sub-

was granted to create a lodge in the Army ; and who was in the chair ?—Mr.

illustrious Duke alluded, was of a totally different character from those which Cromelin, the Grand Master of the county of Down. This resolution, and the now existed : it was, in fact, a lodge of a purely military character. It was presidency of Mr. Cromelin on the occasion, appears in the Appendix to the instituted by William the Third; and the only resemblance which it bore to the Report. But let the House mark the following resolution, that the next war- Orange Lodges of the present day was, that its members were allowed to wear rant should be granted to the 66th Regiment. 'Who was it moved that resoln- a badge, which consisted of a riband, half blue and half yellow in colour. tion ? No ordinary individual—a man holding in the Orange body the highest lie could, however, venture to assert, that nothing even approaching political Position, who began his political life as a fellow of Trinity College (of which opinions, for med any test as to the admission of its members. The qualification the Duke of Cumberland is Grand Master), who has since figured in Bruns- for admision to it was either to have served four or five years in that regiment, or wick clubs, and has exhibited on various occasions at public meetings in Eng. to have performed an active campaign. It was as a candidate who had acquired land,—the Reverend Charles Boyton, the associate of Mr. Mortimer O'Sullivan, the latter qualification that he had obtained admission to that body. Besides it the Grand Chaplain of the Orange Grand Lodges, and (mark it) the Chaplain ;Was officers, and not privates, who were competent to become members of the to Lord Haddington, the late Lord Lieutenant. (Load cheers ) But all the institution. One one occasion, at a review, George the Third inquired what functionaries of the Orange body, despite all this, were ignorant of what the ribands worn by the members of that lodge meant ; and upon being told that was going on in the Army ! The knowledge of some people is wonderful, but they were only marks of military distinction, he expressed himself perfectly ea. not half so marvellous as the ignorance of others. The next time the honour. tithed Now he asked, what similarity was there between that lodge and the able gentleman opposite (Colonel Perceval) the Grand Treasurer, late Treasurer Orange Lodges, as they were now proved to exist, except the fortuitous one to the Ordnance, who was admitted with the Duke of Wellington a Doctor of of its members wearing a riband of a colour like that which distinguished those Common Law at Oxford, visits that learned and loyal establishment, I pray

regiment should he considered a district—of the majority of the Grand Lodge and direct them.

proven to him that any such warrants had been directed to would order them to be annulled. " I own (said Lord John), that after giving justice with mercy, and sentences these presumptuous delinquents to an explanation, I cannot say that I do think that that is a satit.factory statement.

tinhgatot he whole of these proceedings, both the granting of the warrants and the pawl. ledge of those persons who were the chief officers of the Orange Society,—I oaf I

which had been carried on so injuriously to the discipline of the Army up

their acme and their authority, that they would have disclaimed all connexion with those who had so acted.' ( Great eheeriny.)

Those gentlemen ought to have expressed their imlignation agatilist the unworthy, unfaithful, and treacherous coadjutors with whom they ha been allied. With these feelings, he should be compelled to vote for the resolutions, with the exception of the 5th and 6th, which Air. .Hume might easily withdraw.

Mr. SHAW said, that the resolution which referred to tiro Duke r f Cumberland should be altered, if, as Lord John Russell admitted, credit was to be given to the Duke's assertion of his ignorance respect- ing the establishment of military lodges.

Lord JOHN RessEtr. hoped Mr. Hume would withdraw the words " which warrants have been issued on constituting Orange Lodges in the Army."

Dr. NICHOL!: said, he was authorized by Mr. Wilson Patten to with- draw the resolution which he had proposed as an tunendinent ; and this was done accordingly.

Mr. Hum: read extracts from the papers before the House, in which Lord Hill had repeatedly censured the establishment of Orange Lodges in the Army_

The Duke of Cumberland said in his letter, that if it could be proved that warrants existol, he would annul them. Why, his Royal Highness need only 'look at the books of the Grand Lodge to ascertain the fact. To write such a letter to the House, was little less than an insult. The resolution respecting his Royal Highness was not half so strong as he had wished it to he ; but his object was that it should pass the Ikuse, if possible. unanimously. It had been suggested to him not to pass a censure on his Royal Highness ; but he must say - that this resolution, according to his view of the case, was not half so strong or decided as they ought to make it. ( Cheers.) It merely stated a fact. Did his Royal Highness deny that he signed the warrants, and that they were issued to matching regiments.? did he deny that ?

Mr. St I A w—" This is mere special pleading."

Mr. 11c3in—" It is a downright fact." (Cheers.) Here were warrants issued to canstitute Orange Lodges in the Army, and no one was to be re- sponsible for the act. Who was the party? He must join in the expression of surprise which fell from Lord John Russell, at his Royal Highness

• continuing a day longer connected with an association, after he had discovered what had been done. Unless his Royal highness withdrew from his Lodge, he could not believe him sincere in his reprobation of the proceedings. He should say, let his withdrawal be the test of his sincerity. Taking all the circum- stances into consideration, be could not think it possible for Taking Royal High- ness to be altogether ignorant of the fact that warrants were issued to the Army. Ile agreed with Mr. Sheil :—" Let those believe it who could, he could not." In older to insure unanimity, if possible, he would consent to withdraw the two resolutions sr hich had been referred to.

The Gallery was cleared for a division ; and a brief and angry dis- cussion took place, which ended in the adoption of the resolutions, with t he exception of the last.

Mr. HUME agreed to the omission of the words proposed by Lord John Russell. But Mr. HORACE Twiss moved the omission of the last

four lines and a half, which implied a censure of the Duke of Cum- berland. On a division, the House rejected Mr. Twiss's amendment, and retained the words, by a majority of 183 to 40. The resolution then passed as well as the others, excepting the 5th and 6th, which were withdrawn.

4. THE BUDGET.

. Last night, Mr. SPRING RICE moved that the House should resolve itself into a Committee of Ways and Means; and the House having gone into Committee, he proceeded to make his financial statement.

.lie commenced by alluding to former reductions of taxation and ex- penditure; and, after dwelling for some time on these points, pro- ceeded to state the revenue and expenditure account of the last year. From this it appeared, that the Income was 45,539,000/. ; the Expen- diture 44,334,000/. ; leaving a surplus of 1,205,0001. He estimated the Income of the country for the ensuing year ending in April 1836,

at 45,550,000/. ; the Expenditure at 44,715,000/. leaving a surplus of 835,0001. But out of this surplus he should 'have to pay between

600,000/. and 700,000/. as interest on the West India Loan; would leave him a balance of only between 150,000/. and 00,000/. .Mr. Rice then went into a long statement of figures to prove the ge- neral prosperity of the country, the foreign and internal trade of which lie showed to be on the increase, as well as the consumption of those articles which are necessary to the comfort of the community. He also showed that there had been an increase in the number of Savings Hank depositors, and a decrease in the number of bankrupts. By the operation of the Poor-law, a great saving had been made to the Agri- culturist: he calculated, that in the course of five years, the cost of maintaining the poor would be reduced from six millions to three mil- lions annually. Mr. Rice then stated what he intended to do with his small surplus. He had resolved to adopt a new scale of spirit-duties, by which the in. justice of the present law, which made the small dealer pay as much duty as the large one, would be remedied : this would causes reduction of 40,0001. He proposed to reduce the duty on flint glass from 6d. to 2d. a pound,—which would put a stop to smuggling, and greatly increase the consumption in the course of a short time : the loss to the revenue for the present year would be between 60,0001. and 70,0001. The only other tax be should meddle with should be the stamp-duty on awards in Ireland, which operated to prevent the peaceable settlement of disputes in Ireland, and was very injurious; the amount of the duty was only 500/.

He concluded by reminding the House of the favourable terms on which he had negotiated the West India Loan, and sat down amidst loud cheering.

Mr. GOULBURN, Mr. HAWKES, and Sir T. FREMANTLE, generally approved of the statement of Mr. Rice. Mr. CHARLES BULLER, Mr. ROEBUCK, and Mr. HUME complained of the entire omission of

the Newspaper-duty in his speech. Several other Members made a few not very important observations.

Mr. RICE said, in reply to the remarks concerning the Newspaper- duty— _ The honourable gentlemen who were the advocates for the reduction of the Taxes on Anowledge, had over and over again declared that it would be worse than nothing un- lats the whole were removed at once,—that was to say, the Stamp duties un tieWspa. Pen, the tax on advertisements, and the tax upon paper, amounting altogether to an aur.aal sum of 1 333,000t. The Stamp-duty on newspapers amounted to 4.40.0001. Now, a :pi osing that he had a surplus to that amount, did Mr. Roebuck suppudS that the alarity of that Iluttse would consent to its being applied to the reduction of the Stamp. Iut, newspapers? He hoped the House might be disposed at some at until conve- nient time to consider the subject of the Stamp-duties on newseapers. Ile certainly thoti,tlit that a belln arrangement than that which at present existed might be made; and he should be most harpy to be instrumental in making it.

The Committee then broke up, after agreeing to certain formal re solueons moved by Mr. Rice.

MISCELLANEOUS SUBJECTS.

11tIali CHEM II BII.L. This bill was read a third time, and passed the 1 louse of Commons on Wednesday ; after some unimportant op- position from Mr. SHAW Mr. BOUTIIWICK, Mr. LEFROY, Mr. HARDY, V Colonel EliNER, Mr. IctSs, and Mr. SCARLETT.

On the motion of Lord AlssuouRNE, the bill was read a first time in the House of Peers on Thursday; and the second reading was fixed fur that day week.

Rostasr Carnotic MARRIAGES BILL. The Marquis of CLANRI. CARDE moved the second reading of this bill, on Tuesday. Lord CARBERRY moved that it be read that day six months. Lord Pt.usr- KETT, Lord BROUGHAM, and the Bishop of HEREFORD, supported the bill s the Bishops of LONDON and EXETER, the Earls of LiatEincx and Wicesow, and Lord I...sawn:sat, opposed it. On a division, the amendment was carried, by 42 to 16 : so the bill is lost.

ADMIVISTRATIoN or JUSTICE IN IRELAND. On Wednesday, Lord WicK Low complained of the conduct of Lord Mulgrave in mitigating the punishment of some Catholic rioters, sentenced by Judge Penne- hither at Deny, to six months' imprisonment, contrary to the advice of the Judge. Lords DeNeasNoN and PLUNKETT defended Lord Mul- grave, and deprecated the interference of Parliament to limit the ex- ercise of the Crown of its prerogative of mercy. The discussion led to nothing.

Nisi! PEACE PRESERVATION BILL. This substitute for the Coer- cion Bill passed through the Committee of the House of Commons on Thursday. The period of its continuing in force was limited to five years. Mr. W. S. O'BRIEN moved that the term should be two, instead of five years; but the longer period was determined on, by a majority of 48 to 4.

MILITIA STAFF BILL. The House of Commons went into Com- mittee on this bill on Tuesday. The first clause was opposed by Mr. R. TREVOR, Colonel LANGTON, and others ; but carried by 91 to 23. The other clauses were then agreed to. On Thursday, Lord Joust RUSSELL moved the third reading. Colonel Stratum, divided the House against it ; when there appeared —for the bill, 109; against it, 11. The bill was then passed. On the same evening, Lord MELBOURNE moved the first reading of the bill in the House of Lords ; stating that if it were to pass into a law, it was necessary to pass it as soon as possible, because, till it was passed, the Estimates could not be completed, and consequently the Appropriation Bill could not be introduced. It was then read a first time.

Last night, the bill was read a second time pro forma ; the debate to he taken at a future stage. The Duke of RICHMOND announced his intention of moving amendments.

PARLIAMENTARY PAPERS. On the motion of Mr. HUME, OR Thursday, the House of Commons agreed to a string of resolutions for regulating the size, cost, and numbers of Parliamentary Papers. The object of the resolutions is to insure a more regular supply at a cheaper rate; and it is provided "that the Acts of Parliament and Statutes at Large should be printed for sale at one uniform price through- out the United Kingdom, in as convenient a form, and at as low a charge as is consistent with the ordinary profit of trade, and no more."

SEIZURES OF PRINTING-PRESSES BY THE STAMP-OFFICE. On Mon- day, Mr. ROEBUCK presented a petition from the owner of the presses at which the unstamped papers published by Cleave and Hetherington were printed, complaining of the seizure of those presses, for penalties, incurred not by himself, but by the publishers of the papers in question. It appeared that the presses were not registered according to the law of 1799, and were therefore liable to seizure. Mr. Roebuck inveighed at length against the harshness of this proceeding; and maintained that Ministers alienated the support of their best friends by taking such • a course. Mr. SPRING RICE justified the conduct of the Government, on the ground of the necessity of seeing that payment of the revenue was not evaded, and of doing justice to the fair trader, for whose pro- tection all smuggling in newspapers must be put down. Sir JOHN CAMPBELL said, he had no compassion for the owner of the presses, as he had lent them to enable certain parties to evade the law. Mr. E. L. BULWER said that he would endeavour to bring on the discussion respecting the Stamp-duties on Friday : a reduction of the duty only would not be taken as a compromise. Mr. HUME wished the whole duty to be removed. Mr. BAINES reminded the House, that several important interests claimed remission of taxes to the amount of the small surplus at the disposal of Parliament. The petition was laid on the table.

MISCELLANEOUS ESTIMATES. Various SUMS were voted On Monday, in a Committee of Supply on the Miscellaneous Estimates. As usual, a good deal of discussion, very briefly reported, took place. Among the sums voted, were 68,000/. to make tip the losses incurred by the fire at the Dublin Customhouse ; 10,000/. for the distressed Poles now in this country ; and 10,0001. for the erection of Model Schools.

TREATY WITH PORTUGAL. On Tuesday, in reply to questions by Mr. ROBINSON, Lord PALMERSTON said, that He had received a copy of a communication made by the Portuguese Govern- ment to the British Ambassador, stating that, according to a provision in the

i

treaty of 1810, the Portuguese Government considered it suspended from the 10th January 1806. This had been accompanied by an intimation that the Portuguese Government was willing and desirous to open a negotiation for the purpose of establishing a new treaty founded upon principles of reciprocal ad- vantage.

COMPENSATION TO MR. BUCKINGHAM. Mr. Tete moved, on Wednesday, for leave to bring in a bill to compensate Mr. Bucking- ham for his losses in India, so often talked of, out of the funds of the East India Company. Sir JOHN HOBHOUSE opposed the proposal ; and, on the motion of Mr. EWART, the consideration of the subject was adjourned to Tuesday next.

BRIBERY AT YARMOUTH. On Tuesday, Lord F. EGERTON reported from the Great Yarmouth Election Committee, that William Prentice having been called before it, had answered the question he refused to answer on the former day, and all other questions which the Committee thought he was bound to answer. Prentice was then ordered to be discharged from custody.

GREAT YARMOUTH ELECTION. The report of the Committee on this election was last night presented to the House. Mr. ELeung- STONE, one of the Committee, stated that every allegation made by the petitioners had been proved ; and he gave notice that early next session he should move for leave to bring in a bill to disfranchise Great Yar- mouth.

IPSWICH BRIBERY. Last night, Thomas Moore Keith, the attorney of Norwich, appeared at the bar ; was reprimanded by the Speaker, and discharged.

LIMITATION OF Potts BILL. In the House of Lords, on Tuesday, this bill was read a second time, on the motion of Lord RADNoo ; after some opposition from Lords LIMERICK and WicscLow. On Thursday, the bill went through the Committee, with some al- terations proposed by Lord RADNOR.