LETTERS TO THE EDITOR.

THE PROPOSED NEW UNIVERSITY.

(TO TRH EDITOR Ole THI1 srecrAToR."] Sin,—In troubling you with a few remarks in reference to Mr. Roby's letter on 1. Owens College and the University of London," I have no desire whatever to enter into the whole question now under the consideration of the Privy Council. The main argu- ment in favour of the proposal to give this College a University position, we hold to lie in the advantages which this district and the nation will derive from the establishment of another inde- pendent seat of culture and learning, where teaching and ex- amining shall not be separate. Mr. Roby indicates a wish that the subject should be treated with regard to the practical mitt- chief involved in the creation of a new University. The mischief

he actually points out as likely to ensue is of a twofold kind,— firstly, the existing difficulties of schools will be increased by the creation of a new set of examinations, to distract the atten tion of students and masters,—a result which, if it implies the counteraction of a Chinese uniformity of school-teaching„

may be contemplated without pain, and even with satis- faction. Secondly, the establishment of a new degree-giving centre would "lower the standard of distinction, and thereby

lower the limit of attainment." "To substitute a provincial standard for a wider one, is a long and serious step in the wrong direction." Mr. Roby evidently considers both that ,the new degrees would be less thought of, and that they would be easier to get. That the degrees of a new University will at first be thought less of than when they have proved their value in the eyes of the country is likely enough, though, considering the ex- perience of the University of London itself, there is nothing disheartening about the expectation. But a provincial centre does not necessarily imply what Mr. Roby, with less than metropolitan charity, insinuates under the phrase "a provincial standard." As a Governor of the College, he must be aware that the memorial presented on behalf of the College in July last includes definite

guarantees ensuring the maintenance at a due height of the standard of examinations in the proposed University. If, as he

thinks probable, more students should seek the new degrees in expectance of a lower standard, they would be speedily undeceived,, even though the authoritative prophecy of a provincial level should have made them be of good cheer.

For the rest, Mr. Roby's letter amounts to an argument that the existence of the very evils which we believe to be the result• of the present relations between this College and the University of , London invalidates our claim for independence. He says that- " about one-fifth" of our non-medical students "stay more than two years in regular study at the College." I leave the Medical School out of the question, as Mr. Roby does so, although the- numbers of its students (which place it fourth among the Medical Schools in this country) form one of the considerations which support our claim. As to the other students, in a growing insti- tution like Owens College, it is only to be expected that the pro- portion of third-year men, which is further diminished by sundry obvious causes (such as the fact that some of our students at the end of their second year pass into the Medical School, while many, as occasional students, naturally only take a two-years'

course), should fall far below a third of the total number ; nor was I aware that the experience of University College, London, differs

from our own in this respect. Again, some of our students, of course, come to us after the London matriculation, and for such students the University of London itself makes two years the

normal length of the Undergraduate course. But apart from and, above these considerations, it is the very fact that the University of London, in accordance with the principle of its present con- stitution, makes no requirement of collegiate residence, which . prevents our exacting from our students a length of stay at• College such as either the whole course of study for a Loudon. degree, or any University course worthy the name, requires.

Mr. Roby further points out that the average of students from this College who have become graduates of the University of London "for the last five years, which is the most favourable period I can take, is a little over nine a year." It is a well-known fact, which it is unnecessary here to explain at length, that a large proportion of those who matriculate in the University of London do not proceed to the higher examinations either in Arts or Science. Of our own students, moreover, a considerable number prefer to proceed to Oxford or Cambridge without always com- pleting their London course. Unsatisfactory, however, in this respect as our relations with the University of London are and must remain, the number of our students who pass through its examinations exhibits a marked increase on an average of years, and we have had onr fair share of honours.

We not only admit, but wo have, in documents to which Mr.. Roby has access, urged upon public attention the fact that the London degrees do not of themselves suffice to attract the youth

of this district to undergo a complete course of University train- ing. We openly avow that a stronger attraction than a degree• from a distant centre is needed to induce considerable numbers of young men to undergo sufficiently long periods of study, but we also assert that a strong attraction would lie in the prospect of a training such as in many instances we are at present pre- vented from giving. We not only concede that a very large proportion of our best students do not direct their endea-

vours towards the London examinations, and that their teachers approve of this, but we argue from this state of things that the present relation between the College and the University is an untenable one. We assert that, notwithstanding the relatively small number of London degrees taken by students of this College, a specially strong and steadily increasing desire prevails in this district for the spread of an education which shall provide young men with a sound and systematic training in such subjects as are usually taught in Universities ; and while acknowledging -the great services rendered to national education by the University of London, and our own obligations to it, we maintain that our cbnneetion with it seriously thwarts our work, impedes our pro- gress, and in some directions forbids our even attempting to fulfil the highest functions of a place of University education.

On Mr. Roby's positive recommendations I need not dwell. He offers to the student who " loves to connect his degree with his place of higher education " a suggestion which might possibly meet the case, if the local title were the advantage really looked forward to for the members of the proposed 'University. Member- ship of a University means not only a share in the advantages of its present and the pride of its past, but also contingently a participation in its government, and an opportunity of helping to ,direct its progress. These are among the advantages which the members of the Scotch, like those of the 'old English Universities, have derived from belonging to academic bodies with a past, a present, and a future of their own. It is such a future which we -think it no Overstrained ambition to desire for this College, Instead of that temptingly held out to it by Mr. Roby in his con- eluding paragraph. "The recalcitrant schools of a province" are apparently an enigmatic fiction of his imagination, and the refer- ence to Hampden, Cromwell, and the Commune is merely historically and syntactically odd ; but the prospect of " a well- 'ordered liberty under a common constitution " is a vision in which we cannot indulge as to our relations with the University -of London, even if the constitution of " Sparta " should have been modified into contradiction with itself, in accordance with the fantastic scheme which Mr. Roby has elsewhere propounded.

—I am, Sir, &c., Owens College, Manchester, November 13. A. W. WARD.