1 AUGUST 1840, Page 2

cbaic5 anb Vroccrbings in Vailianicnt.


Lord JoHN RUsSELL moved the second reading of this hill, in the House of Commons, on Wednesday. He explained that the principle on which the bill is fininded is to vest the full powers of sovereignty in the person of the Regent. The division of authority among a Council would only tend to weaken the authority of the Regent, -which it was important to maintain as vigorously as possible- .. It is not proposed, thereffire, to fetter ltis authority, except in eases in 'which it seeinS necessary so to do; those being the eases of the suc- cession to tl k. Thrmie, :old the preservation of the Church, as established by law, lay the at of Unitbrinity of Charles the Second in England, and after- wards in I ac land by the Act of Union, as fully as it leas in England, and like- wise the Church of Scotland, as established by the law relating to the Church of Scotland. There is also a limitation with regard to the marriaoe of the Regent ; and those are the only limitations the bill contains as to the powers of the Regent."

The powers of the Regent being defined, there remained the ques- tion, to whom sltould those powers he intrusted? According to prece- dent and to natural considerations, it was most reasonable that they should be vested in the surviving parent : it leas therefore proposed to bestow this authority on his Royal Highness Prince Albert. Lord John Russell concluded by saying- " It is my most earnest prayer, that the provisions of this act may he ren- dered unnecessary, and that the act may never come into operation : but as it is incumbent upon Parliament to provide for such a contingency, I know of no better mode of doing so than that adopted by the other House of Parliament, with the general concurrence of all parties, which is in confbrmity vs ith the precedent of 1830, and which nppears to me to be most in consonance with the nature of the monarchy and the best interests of the country."

Sir Romer PEEL expressed his hearty concurrence in the prayer of Lord John Russell, and in the principle and provisions of the bill.

After a few remarks from Mr. FnESHFIELD, in approval of the bill, but suggesting a lbrmal addition, it was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Thursday.


On the motion for the second reading of this bill, on Monday, Lord MELBOURNE proceeded to answer the objections urged by counsel to the measure. The general principle of the bill was this— Whether their Lordships would consent to sonic reduction of the present Cathedral establishments or the country, and to au application of the fund which would be raised by that reduction to the supplying a remedy to that state of unhappy destitution of spiritual instruction, which unquestionably, from various causes, prevailed throughout a great part of this country. All that their Lordships were called on to do was to make such reduction in the Cathedral establishments, and yet at the same time to leave them amply suffi- cient thr all the purposes ffir which they were instituted; nod to apply the funds proposed to be raised by the present measure to objects which lie contended were must proper, to that deficiency in the pavochial system which it wits the first duty of the House of Lords and the House of Commons to take means to remedy.

He defended himself front the charge of injuring the Church by this measure, by observing, that the saute principle now adopted was re- commended by Sir Robert Peel in 1835, during the time he was at the head of the Government. He next referred to the observations made by counsel, that the measures of Church reform were introduced to lull public agitation on the subject, which no longer existed, therefore the bill was now unnecessary. This assertion he denied on the part of himself and his colleagues. In ilia, they could not have been actuated by such a motive ibr they had all along denied the existence of any danger. What they had felt in those times of agitation was, that it was necessary to apply a remedy for acknowledged abuses ; but so thr front considering this course to he dictated by fear, he thought it was one of prudence and wiedom. The deficiency of' parochial religious instruc- tion was admitted ; and it was only right that the Church should take the lead in removing that evil, by giving up a portion of the funds at her disposal. It had been argued that the Chapters ought to he pre- served, and take upon themselves their former duties as Council to the Bishop. For his part, however, he had rather that the Bishop were responsible for his own acts: he was an advocate for the Monarchical principle in the Church as well as in the State. One great argument for the bill was, that the Church being bound to provide for those who had the strongest claims upon her, it went to remove funds which were vir- tually lost, and applied them where they could produce the greatest benefit and advantuge.

The Bishop of 'WINCHESTER contended, that the bill was an infringe- ment of the rights of the Church. The institutions of which this bill treated were divided into old and new foundations— The old foundations consisted of Prebendaries, Residential and Non-residen- tial. The new tbundations, established by Henry the Eighth and remodelled A ky Charles the First, contained only Prebendaries Residential. The Residentials gnIllitAent cathedrals varied in point of number—in some they were as !natty as thlitie4 in others as few as four. The whole number of Residentials ttlallIfteeslio atop. 204; and their ditties required a regular daily attendance in plaids-Or for various portions of the year. The Non-residentials comma- - ii.muchlarger body—uhout 340; and their duties consisted in little inure ' 4tai preaching otte or two sermons occasionally in the course of the year. TheArroperty of -these institutions consisted partly of what might be called --Foperty prop*r-,.that was to say, of houses or landed estates—and partly of parochial tithes or impropriations; the latter description of property having been given in exchange for real property. Such was a short descriptiofa_ nature and character of these institutions. What, then, were the provisL'w this bill? In the first place, it absolutely suppressed all Prebends not req residence; anti then it went on to reduce the Prebends requiring residiunisei, the number of four in each cathedral, with one or two exceptions nc.-;,7 which five were allowed. Further than that, it dissolved all the corpora; of Minor Canons. The bill proposed to alienate generally. the separate 41" • belonging to Deans and the members or chopte,s; ferilier, it uppropthopo property derived from redactions and alienations, and applied it to them' nictitation of small livings, or to the endowment of new betakes; it went oil to transfer pa i voltage from one body corporate to other bullies nat rate, or front individuals to individuals ; and lastly, it provided lin- an ahem' tion of the aneicilt stilt at es or I hese several institutions, in onler to metttlit changes which would is L Erected multi- its alterations. Such %, as a shod Roil inary of the various weasUreS contained in this hill. The elfeet of thers,i they should be citiried into a law, would be to abolish tio fewer than 72 It‘• dent ial Peelaiularks and 317 Non-residential, reduciug this class of einni dignitaries f'ron, uton in cumber to about 130: further than that, it woohl duce more of the Chapters, so as bring them to a very I.,/ ebb. general efffiet wouhl he to take away little less than one-half of the revel," now attached to Cathedral establish a news.

At this particular crisis, when the increase of intelligence and lean. ing made it necessary for the clergy to take a high standing in 6, ranks of leorning, it would be highly impolitic to weaken and shoos to destroy the nurseries of sound theological knowledge and pug divinity.

The Archbishop of CANTERBURY explained the objects of the Chittell Commissioners, and defended the measures proposed hy them, as mess sary lin. the welfare Of the Church it He poinkd (int the inefficiency or the clerical establishments in populous manufheturiog districts, 044 urged the necessity of supplying this deficiency by malting a Witt distribution of the resources of t he Church, fitted to the altered cuddles of the times. With respect to the Non-residentiary Canouries thins-ere to be abolished, it would hi.' atbsurd to talk of theta otherwise than a sinecures— It Avos far from his wish to depreciate the advantages arising to the Chord, and to the people from Cathedral estahliblunents, or to restrict the remuneraties provided for Re-ident Canons. If circumstances would admit, he would tido increase than diminish them. But when, on the other hand, he set Rohm that consideration the spiritual destitution which prevniled—the absence olds means fig religious instruction and worship, which extended not only through., out the populous places he had enumerated, but throughout the agrieultuni districts also—he confessed he could not prevail upon himself to balmee fit one consideration against the otber. The right of the State to deal with pro. perty destined to other purposes by the founders, had been piestioned. ilt must be allowed to say, with respect to many of these donors, that the times is which they lived and the circumstances under which they devised ought this taken into consideration.

The Archbishop referred to the opinions of the Duke of' 'Wellington, Sir Robert Peel, and Earl Grey, to show the propriety of the Chord setting the example of providing for the spiritual wants ()I the people. Their language was, " We can do nothing for the Church if the Church will do nothing for itself." This was the spirit of' the present measure. Ile expected that its effect would be to strengthen the interests of the Church, and to extend her usefulness.

Lord LYTTLETON opposed the bill ; which he &Milled as a wild and baseless scheme of confiscation. lie thought the original powers of the Chapters ought to be restored, instead of being altogether abolished. By abolishing these preferments in the Church, which were looked upon as rewards of' mei it, they would remove the inducements to enter the Church as a profession. He said he trembled for the age that could produce such a measure.

The Earl of HAnnownv laid down the broad principle, that the right of property of every kind subsists entirely by virtue of a convention of society, and ought to exist only for the benefit of society. Befbre the Church called on Parliament for any additional funds, he thought it ought to be manacle clear that the Church, by a proper distribution of the property already belonging to it, had done as much as it could to remedy the destitution and evils of' which it complained. The endowments that would still be left the Church were greater than those of any other of the liberal professions.

The Earl of Dnvost opposed the bill. He objected to proceeding with a measure of this nature without having any evidence of its ne- cessity. The Church Commissioners ought to have adduced the evi- dence on which their recommendations were founded ; and without that, he considered it rash to proceed to the appropriation or so large an tunount of property to other uses than were originally intended. The effect of this bill would be to deter men from ever again apportioning any part of their property to the purpose of promoting the interests and religion of the Established Churelt.

The Bishop of GLOUCESTER rebutted the objection of the Earl of Devon that the Commissioners had proceeded without evidence. The Bishops of SALISBURY and Roes's:wren and the Bishop of UN. COI.N alSO spoke on the question, the two former in opposition to the bill, and the latter in its support.

The second reading was carried, on a division, by 99 against 48.

On Thursday, before the bill went into Committee, the Bishop of EXETER said, he felt bound to express his reasons for dissenting from the measure. He considered it an extraordinary part of the proceedings connected with this bill, that the clergy had not been consulted ; and he believed. with the exception of the Minor Canons, win) had an in- terest given them in the patronage of the Chapters, that the general body of the clergy were opposed to the measure. Ile referred to a conference between the Archbishop of Canterbury and the Duke of Wellington, and to a meeting of Bishops which was summoned at the request of Lord Grey to consider the question of Church Reform: at this meeting, this question of the Deans and Chapters was specially con- sidered, and the determination was that the interests of the Church re- quired their preservation. In looking at the present measure, the first thing to which the attention ought to he directed, was the principle which actuated it. That- principle, he

the believed, might be failly stated tints : that in consegnence of the extreme,

admitted spiritual destitution of large portions of this country, it wits necessary to provide thuds wherewith to meet that destitution, slid that a Measure abso- lutely, essential to that object was that Cathedral establishments should he de- prived of their revenues. Now, if the present measure was in itself such

The Bishop of Loximos, in a speech of great length, defended the a conduct of the Church Commiasioners, and dwelt upon the great want of spiritual instruction in the large manufacturing towns, and other populous districts. This sacrifice by the Church would be a the means of doing infinite good to the country, and at the same time secure the affections of the mold ! to the hinrelt Ile alluded to the charge against the

1st e.onnumston, that they were actuated by fear. lie pleaded wt. to the charge ; but it was not the fear of popular clamour duty thittedglini Ithienced them, but the fear of being found wanting in the t y owed the Church, among whose members such lamentable destitution of spiritual knowledge prevailed— If there were now a momentary calm after the storm with which the Church hliallagebreen_lara.oiledi, it was owing to these very recommendations of the Commis- s„_ st t.t.lie desire which was manifested by the Church herself to pm- pnotTitritual wants of the people. If they imagined that that storm reynua .fialeilttg, they were miserably deceived. Let them betray the fully of peZps,ott. ive, and it would burst tiwth again with redoubled violence, and

t he total shipwreck of the vessel of the Church. (" Ilear, hear ! ")

D'us and Canons might repose in their stalls for a time in litneied security, j hut, de d

," Pen upon it, their enemies would come on thetn like armed men, when 'aq were least prepared, and divide the spoil.

would tend largely to deteriorate the character and efficiency of the Church, be should hold that that was a great set-off against any advantages to be de- jecd from its having a tendency to meet the spiritual wants of the people. He defended the Cathedral establishments front the charge of being si mires ; and contended that they were of great benefit to the Detain places where they were situated, The revenues of the Church yr- re, he maintained, fitr from extravitgant ; the revenues of all the Beishops being now limited to 150,thad., and of the Deans to 200,000i. He admitted that much good might he done by the sum intended to be appropriated ; but the money. ought to be furnished by the State for the support of the national religion--

The Government had not had com•age to persist in filch measure for the abolition of church-rates, hut they had now courage to propose to the llown• a measure of a much worse character—onc which involved lunch of injustice, perfidy. but little of practical benefit. Ile asked Glen) what was the much of heard the other night [per,ioir Milling of the idle declamation Ivhich they Awards Lord diqhmteue] on the Subject of sph•itual de a it no it on ? Thar decla- mation he admit:ed to be just ; but it was certainly jlcif those who indulged justice required—to apply smote remedy to in it were not prepared to do what

those enormous evils. When he weil the words " hue deciamation,'• In, ap- plied a d,escription below vhat 411 ti conduct really deserved ; for it Willi

else than gross hypocrisy to be unwilling to take a course whieh it wits in the power of those, who had professed to lament its not being adopted, to pursue. He next proceeded to point out the provisions of the bill ; which he asserted would be most unjust in its operation. As an example of this


London was to be left four Residentiaries, and all the revenues of the Chap-

ter; whilst in Exeter the bill took away the lino. Canons left to it, and all the revenues. The bill exhibited throughout a reeklo,,sness of rights and reason which he could never have expected their Lordships would ever have been in- duced to give their assent to. Sure he was, that no One head could have con- cocted this bill : its various and inconsistent enactments required the united

crotchetiness ot' several heads to compass it (" Hear, hear " mid howh.) Be would implore his right reverend brethren in this House, to consider what they were now doing, and what was now in their power on this important sub- ject The Archbishop of Cetarrantnrav explained the circumstances of his interview with the Duke of Wellington, to which the Bishop of Exeter had alluded. An altercation ensued between them on the sub- ject; and the Bishop of Extermt threatened to publish the correspond- ence that took place at the time.

The Duke of WiettmeroN, who had been often alluded to during this misunderstanding, said he felt himself called upon to throw what light on the matter he could. Ile could not, he said, inform the House what were the terms of the conference between himself and the Arch- bishop of Canterbury ; " for, to say the truth," he continued,

"I do not recollect one word of it. (Loud laayhter.) But this 1 do know, that I. never entertained but one opinion on this subject. That opinion was, that it was essentially necessary that additional measures ought to be adopted in this country for preaching the word of God to the people thereof; suad that, considering in what degree the Church of this country is endowed, it was expedient that the first step in order to procure funds for that purpose should be made by the clergy themselves. (Load cheers.) I always entertained those opinions. ("Hear, hear! ") When any of the right reverend Prelates oppo- site conversed with me on this subject, I stated those opinionis. ((7heers.) I connot recollect on what occasion or in wl,at words these opinions were de- livered to the right reverend Prelate, (the ArehJ.islinp of Canterbury,) but in presenting a petition to your Lordships a few nights waa from the University of Oxford against this bill, I said that, in iny correspondence with that Uni- versity, I had stated the same opinions, and that latterly I had gone still farther, and said that those persons must have derived but little advantage Irons what had recently occurred, who did not see that fresh cause was arising everyday for thinking that it was absolutely necessary that the first step thould be taken by the clergy themselves ; and when a Commission, consisting of such men HS thi Archbishop of Canterbury, the Bishop at' London, and their other reverend colleagues, reported that there were im•ans equivalent for this purpose, it was ridicule-els to suppose that Parliament would not insist that those means should be resorted to bellwe the public wag called on to find other resources for this most important and most necessary service. (Cheers.) It has been my lot to live among idolaters—among persons of all creeds and of all religions; hut I never knew yet of it single instance in which public means were notprovided sufficient to teach the 'people the religion of their country. There might be false religions—I know but of one true one ; but yet means were never wanting to teach those false religions ,• and I hope that we shall not have done with this subject until we have limnd sufficient means for teaching the people of England their duty to their Maker, and their duty to one another founded on their ditty to that Maker. ((Ii it eheethoi) 1 hope that such will be the result or this diacussion ; and 1 Wel ielinite iihligat ion-to the right reverend Prelate opposite, because he has stated broadly iii his speech to-night, that if justice is doue to the resources of the Church, we shall be fully able to maintain a church such as this great country ought to maintain. (Grad cheering.) And besides that, we shall be enabled to teach the word of God to every Individual living under the protection of her most sacred. Majesty. (('on- tinuo,' eheerisy.) That is what 1 most anxiously desire to see, and shall most cordially coaperate in effecting I think that this bill is a fair commencement of such a consummation, so de.voutly to he %visited for' ; and I hope that its enactments will be so framed before it comes out of the Committee, that they may be the foundation of something more; anti tend to the effectual nrtintc - mare of the Church on its old system." (Great cheering.) The Bishop of liocittieTime said a few words ; and the bill was com- mitted pro .1;•ruta, and reported.


On the motion for going into Committee on this bill, on Thursday; 3.1r. WAllitt. tyros moved that it be read to third tune that day three months. He oltjected to the lull because it would place the working- clergy absolutely under the potver of the heads of' the Church.

1/r. NiCHOL Said, until sume measure of this leitul was passed, no reform te: the 1.•;„•:eshe-eitet1 l'ourts could he introduced. The amend-

Ineut was re:eete,I, h ..; against 15. The hill NV :lb then committed.


On the motion Ittr the third reading of' this bill, on Wednesday, Lord.

JoemN Russ:at. rk,!-,e to ort.,)se it, lie could not agree to this bill

On the glanuol Ilea it was desirable to prepare the way for It total

abolition, beille ml Ii that :•eeit-ty 55"5 not ite%y ii uch a state as thug the ittleishnuen et' death wee." be safely disj teased NV it 11. All the offences vt- hich Witt c now liable to he punished capitally were these—

Attempts at mmlar; injuries inilietvol ivilich might be dangermis to life; rolthelies cot:minted ii II It idoos alai vio.lattec ; burg] ay, accompanied by violecce to Ferso : setting tire to a divelling•Lome it rluii'l upitt=tiliS were at

Chic time, or sio iog fire to ships, isitielt mi;211t destroy life. For all these

offences, as he; serimoy afferting lire, and dli 1 against the lives of intlividttak Iii jouihuoulut n tittat it Wits n11101. W it bout saying that no change foyat I. if! tinritely made in the law, hy ivhiell they might do away with capital pee:At:nem s for some of those taYettcvs, he thought that, as a great fdterolio., I.a•i 14 on made hi the law relotitig to the capif al punishments ia IN;;, h did not sc that they could he so soon called upon Si mitigate the ca-

pital iiihmt sifich had been proposed to he inflicted toy those. laws. They had had ant ;t :.1;dt cxitt•rit'llre out the effects of the al:eration, elfeeially as the nuath,r t,r p..rous emivieted hall been much reduced; aml they leel no eaidence ti ,S. that juri,s were unwilling to convict because of the existence or capital punish:twee

Lord Jelin thu ii alluded to some of the graver offences from which it was intended to remove the punishment of' death ; for the purpose of showing, that though in ordinary cases capit 11 punishment might be thought too severe, there were sometimes circumstances of aggravation that rwelered them as nitwit deserving of the punishment of death as the highest offences-- Ile thought that with regard to offences against property, time firing of dock- vitals, and perhaps with respect to some other offences, there might be an alter- ation of' the law in the app.:etching session ; hut he could not say that for at- tempts at imu•der, or for violence against the person, the public shoult1 be left without that protection which the fear of the punishmeut of death Wits likely to afford.

lle e(melniled by moving, as an amendment, that the bill be read a third time that day three months.

.11/r. 1.t'S.IINcl'oN supported the bill. The interests of society and the proper punishment of' guilt required an alteration of' this nature in the criminal law ; tin juries were so averse to cot tv iet where the conse-

quence. thei.‘ verdicts might In! the taking away that they often pertnitoel criminals to eseape rather than salt-it:et them to the punish- ment or death. I be alluded to the increased number of convictions compare(' with pr)stamtions for those offences front which the punish- ment of death had been removed, to bear out this opinion. All past ex perietwe proved that not time severity of pimislintent but the CC1r.

Of its liulil iou tutu ti, Q ttlY:11('St (-!i.titi: to clink?. 'rite protection of society front the commission and contambeetion of crime was the main object to be considered ; and unless the sacrifice! of' human life were called for by au imperative necessity, it should never ht any case be resorted to.

'['lie Earl of' 1).%!ttreeeroN was favourable to the principle of the bill, but lie thought its previsions went too far.

Mr. E. I■ELLY replied to the objections urged by Lord John Russell against the bill. The same objections, he observed, that were now made against the present measure, were urged against that of 1837, which had beert found to operate so benefieially. As a proof of the unwillingness of' juries to convict when death won hi prolmbly be the consequence, he stated that he had that day receivol a communication on the subject front a gontleman in In Is, by which it appeared that the crimes at l'orle Assizes were getterally of a deep and heinous na- ture, but that the juries refused to convict because the penalty was the loss of life.

Sir Boomer Piata opposed further legislation on this subject during

the present st ssion. He considered it had not been sufficiently esta- blished that the present In W Wa,-: more ,:evere than the sympathy of the public warranted. It v n essential ill any alteration of this kind to act in unismi with public feeling—

He did not conceive that puldie sympathy would go with Ilia honourable frienul in the remission of tlw caltn:d mini:deo:en in cases of burglary attended with personal violence—of a nature calculate I to endanger life; nor in the case of rape ; for instance, rape committed on to poor person by a ridt Mall, and accompanied with yiolenee am•mtding ahnost to the deiwiration of' life. Take, for instance, the (7:1,4. Or S. t'Oli,rintry 10 commit a rape, where a rich man, for

the gratification or bi-: ilelooes others to join with hint to carry off a young person, and then foreilfly violate,: her. In the I''' it state of the law, the punishment it auhl he hut hi; but if a rid' II ii ii,oeli a use was only Tarnished with ilium ii went, puldie f,..eling would he 1 i wl yea would tend to Alienatet a lO .oe fe..to,:. of the peololto from Cie It i, if I I ivy ,-tt iv what they conceived to be itiftdefitiate punish m.-1 inflicted in such a ca,e.

On the whole ',.•iew of the jet, lit: dill not now f'cL1 prepared to entertain such an extensive alicration in criminal punishments as that proposed, because he felt he had not haml time duly to consider the question. At present, he could not vete that rape, ago4ravated burglary, setting fire to shipping, and some others, should be left unpunishable by death.

other, it could not come into operation until it had received the sanction of the Legislature. Ile had entertained the hope that the treaty would have been brought to a conclusion in sufficient time to be laid before Parliament, and that a bill founded on it would receive its sanction in the present session. That hope had now vanished, but he trusted that he should be able to lay the treaty, and a bill founded on it, on the table of the House early in the next session.


In the House of Lords, on Thursday, Lord MELBOURNE stated, in answer to a question from Lord STRAxcwono, that-- it was perfectly true that negotiations hail been entered inio between this country, Austria, :Russia, Prussia, and the Sublime Porte, with a view to the pacification of the Levant. It was also perlixtly true that those negotiations had been considerably advanced ; but he never regarded such matters as settled until they were ratified; therefore all he could now say was, that such negotia- tions were going. on.

Lord Bnot-cliAto said, that 1;e was chiefly alarmed by that portion of the statements referred to which alleged that no communication had been made to France till after the completion of the treaty. That which he wished to know was whether all communication on the subject had been withholden from France ?

Lord MELoortme replied, that communications hail been made to France upon the subject, but that France was not a party to the treaty.

Lord Mni.nounsal also stated, in answer to questions from Lord LONDONDERRY, that her Majesty had been advised to confer the Order of the Bath on General Espartero.

In a Committee of Supply, on Thursday, the following questions and answers were put and given regarding rumours of troops being sent to the Levant, and also respecting our present relations with Spain. Mr. Hum; wished to ask Lord Palmerston, whether there was any truth in the report that a large military force was about to be despatched to the Levant ?

Viscount PALMERSTON said, if they were to be called upon to answer as to the truth of all reports that were circulated, their labours would be very much increased. If the honourable gentleman merely meant to ask what was the policy of the Government upon the affairs of the East, he would see that it was a question which a Minister could not mesver. Mr. Bram—The noble Lord dill not know his own policy, therefore it was not likely that he would ask hint any question upon it. (A buy/u.) The report was that 3,000 troops were to he sent out : lie would not ask them what they more going to do, for the noble Lord probably did not know himself, but the House ought to be put in possession of the fact. Viscount PALMERSTON would only ask the honourable Member if he really believed the report to be true ? (Load issohcer.) Mr. HOME said, he (lid believe it, became the report had an effect upon the Public Securities. It was easy either to say yes or no. ViSCOMIt PALMERSTON—" Then I say no." (Laugh/cr.) Sir ROBERT PEEL WISI1Cd to know whether the contingency in reference to the Quadruple Treaty, entered into between this countu, France, Spain, and Portugal, had arrived ? whether the conditions were fulfilled 2 or whether it was still in force?

Viscount PArsunnsTosi said, it would appear that the fiiir meaning of the parties, when they entered into that engagement, was, that lifty would assist the Queen of Spain in the contest which was going on with Dou Carlos. Ile should say, virtually, that the contest was over ; but if the smile state of things again arose, the spirit of the treaty would be still in force, aud the parties would be hound by it. Sir ROBERT PEEL said, with respect to any intestine troubles wholly un- connected with Don Carlos, that treaty, he apprehended, would have no aPPlis cation ?

Viscount PALMERSTON nodded assent.


When the report of the Committee of Supply was brought up on Monday, on coming to the resolution for voting 17a,4-12/. towards de- fraying the expenses of the expedition to China,

Mr. GLADSTONE rose to protest against the whole proceeding. He would not now enter into the question, whether or not a warlike expe- dition should have been sent to China ; he left the responsibility of that exercise of the Crown's prerogative to Ministers. But there Wall one point whieh required further explanation—the demand for com- pensation, and its effect upon the opium-trade : The noble Lord bad used the terms" compensation for injuries inflicted on the property of British subjects." According to Mr. Gladstone'a intepreta- lion that meant compensation foe the surrenifer of the opium into which they lead 'been coerced. It Ile were wrong in his supposition that this was the noble Lord's meaning, he would wish ;it once to be corrected. If he were not (am- tradieted, he should assume that he was right in Ids interpretation. Setting aside the general policy of the war, let him eon what effect the presennt expedition had upon the opium-trade itself. A few figures would place the matter in a clear light. At Calcutta, during the October sales, the Patna opium pro- duced 437 rupees, and the Betimes opium 413 rupees a shest. Between the October sales and the month of January, it became pretty generally known that hostile measures were to he taken agstinst China ; and in the February sales the Patna opium, which at the October sale produced 437 rupees, rose to 610 rupees ; whilst the Benares opium, that had sold in October for 413 rupees, rose to 550 rupees.

And even if the expedition were as cheap, (though 173,442/. was a mere mite in comparison with the probable expenditure which would he incurred before they got back the 2,000,000/. demanded,) and as suc- cessful in its immediate object, as it was expected to be, might it not be frustrated in the results 2—

Pecuniary compensation was demanded of the Chinese ; what was to prevent them from saying that they would give the whole of the sum claimed, and afterwards imposing sutuh a taX on tea and silk as should cover the amount ? It was the belief of many persons that this course %timid be adopted ; and who, he asked, would then pay for the compensation ? The consumers of tea and of Chinese silks, and the British public, would be twin taxed instead of once.

And was there any such necessity, in reference to the demand for com- pensation—supposing that demand to be just—as would warrant the waste of buinan life which must ensue ? Ile did not not mean to blame Captain Elliot, who in March IS39 had probably no course left open to him which would not have been liable to just reflection, Nor would he pre- judice the character of the opium-merchants, or their claim. lie argued that the claim was good, not against the Chinese, but against the Bri- tish Government.

He quoted Mr. Jardine, to show that the Chinese were not bar- barians ; and thence contended, that they ought not to be treated as such. It ill because us, who had offered the bribe which the Chinese

authorities—or rather only the lower officers of Government-----ve. charged with taking, to make that a plea for violence. As to ments founded on the act of the Chinese Government not being jostiLi by Chinese law, that law rested upon edict; and so whatever warranted by edict was law. The argument about the jurisdielis4 over the waters of Canton was not more valid ; for it would not blit pretended that the authority of the Chinese was limited to the rho Some contended that the general trade should have been stopped bytt,', guilty. Besides, the general trade was nearly over at the time. Chinese ; hut that would have been to confound the innocent with its before. Ile contended that the Chinese ought to be exempted fist that part of the law of nations which resulted from the civilization of society ; since, " partially barbarous," China had never subscribed ti the provisions of our law of nations. Gladstone went on to argue some other points, which have been mooti perfect right to make a speech, what earthly good or use he could prs pose by it. Mr. Gladstone had spoken of considerations which toigb have induced him to delay his speech : the state of the benches on own side of the llouse might have furnished hint with the best reaso, star after star having faded away. Mr. Gladstone had Attributed Ot increase of the contraband opium-trade to the armament Sir Jot attributed it to a very different reason—

ceased to act in defiance of the determined wishes and habits of the Chinese had entered into some established relations with us.

tion fbr them from the law of nations. Sir John was not afraid ad: Mr

Captain Elliot had foretold that the trade would go on increasing uOtil'ii,

the Chinese should be treated as barbarians, and then claiming excep.

feeling of the country—

country finding alive and growing awake to these transactions, but he must se

were not civilized; or were they to submit not only to injury but insult, alis

no other power in the world could do so with impunity ? Ile did not kno

since the 9th of April last to exhibit that feeling; and yet, with one or m exceptions, Sir J. llobliouse did not believe the honourable Member fs

to what the honourable Member for Newark alluded when he spoke of tis that the public had been a long time in becoming so if they had taken en: tautly not those in the other House of Parliament. Newark had the sympathies of twenty men in or out of this House, ander. , Sir &MN llommusid could not tell, though Mr. Gladstone loth The opium-smuggling would go on increasing until the Chinese Covernnse Was the Government of this country to truckle to the Chinese beeausethe

Sir John ridiculed Mr. Gladstone s inconsistency in deprecating Co; belts

In conclusion, Si,' John admitted that lie might have left semi to points of Mr. Gladstone's s,wech untouched ; but it was because the

had been so completely answered by Lord Palmerston on the etlit't (3' April.

.Mr. GEORGE PALMER condemned Captain Elliot for having fostes4 rather than repressed, the trade in opium, which was carried on uncle the very guns of' the guard-ship.

Sir CHARLES GREY said, that for the last ten years the opium-trade was in such a state that no mercantile body or party in the governmen of this country could put an end to it without the concurrence of th Chinese Government. According to his view, the first point to he gained was, that the Chinese should in so far be brought to reason its abstain front issuing edicts, and be prepared to agree to mutual arra, 'punts with other Governments.

Lord SANDON asked why should the Chinese be reproached, ale they had winked at the importation of a small quantity of opium, In: wishing to put down a trade of such magnitude, when it corrupted tht court, the camp, and places of education ? The Chinese might be wrong in matters of detail, but we had no right to force upon them tin drug merely because they had no fleet to put down the trade.

Lord PALMERSTON, like Sir John Hubhouse, did not see the utility of Mr. Gladstone's speech : he ought to have made some motion, n the sense of his present remarks, at the beginning of the session. Tin fact that the Chinese had not given due notice of the course which they intended to pursue, was not the ground upon which the British Goveri. ment proceeded— If notice hail been given, it could not have altered the character of the proceedings which bad been resorted to, and which were alike contrary to the law of nations, to the law of nature, and to every principle which SliOnki guide the intercourse between man and man. Was it consistent with the hard justice or of nature to seize the innocent because you could not takeholtiot the guilty, and by their sufferings to extort from others property which yes

could not otherwise reaell ? practice which the honourable Wisher justified was the practice resorted to by the banditti of Spain and Italy, who seized upon travellers, carried them tel the mountains, and there starve] or shot them, unless their friends sent such sums of money as the robbers chose to demand. There was no dithwence whatever in point of principle.

Sir RomotT PEEL, conceiving that the claims of the British merchants were well founded, feared that the burden of compensation would fall on British trade and commerce. Ile still thought that the course tato by Government could not be justified ; for, while he thought the insults

which had been offered to British subjects by the Chinese Goverrent , were unjustifiable, he felt that the complication of affairs was mainly attributable to the want of proper foresight and precaution on the part of the Government.

The other speakers were Mr. ITAwEs, Mr. HI■ME, Mr. MACLUN, Mr. EmooT, Mr. MENTZ, mid Mr. SMITH. The resolution ita agreed to.


In reply to questions from Sir Ronnwr IstuLts, on Monday, Sir hits . llonnotisn said that a despatch had been sent out on the sth of August s3S, by the direction of the East India Company, desiring Lord Amuck' land to take measures for relieving troops from any compulsory attend' niece at the religious ceremonies of the natives. any pilgrim-ta( had in consequence been abolished at the four great pilgriM-stations. and some difficult), was experienced in transferring the charge of them Some native difficulty was greatest in Madras. In that Presidency princes still retained a titular authority, and assisted at religious pill' cessions. The troops which attended as a personal compliment to the Rajah of Travancore, took no part in the ceremonies, and did not ap- proach the pagoda. Several pagodas also had been established in that Presidency, which were originally founded for charitable purposes; to native authorities, lest the intentions of the founders should be .dc• feated, But even its Madras the endeavours to cut off any connexion

between the Company's servants and the Hindoo religious ceremonies proceeded fairly.


On the third reading of this bill, Mr. HumE moved an amendment, to the effect that, in order to terminate the jealousy and dissension that hitherto existed on the subject of the Clergy Reserves, the ands sold and the proceeds placed at the disposal of the Provincial be

secs' lature. After a short discussion, the amendment was lost, by a m—sissIty of 41. The bill was then read a third time, and passed. NEW SoUTII WALES BILL.

When this bill was reported, on Monday, Mr. VERNON Salmi, in reply to Sir ROBERT PEEI„ said that an object of the bill was to m- ower the Government to separate New Zealand front New South Vasa Mr. GouLnunse complained that the bill gave the power to split New South Wales into as many governments as Ministers chose. Mr. SMITU said, that was putting a very forced construction upon it.


NEW WRIT. A new writ was ordered on Wednesday for the county of Cavan, in the room of Mr. R. S. Maxwell, who has accepted the Chiltern Hundreds.

THE Summon. QuEstrtox. In answer to a qttestion from Lord SomoN, on Thursday, Lord PALMERsToN said, he load no doubt the Sulphur monopoly had been already abolished. Ile stated that a com- mission had been appointed, two members by the British and two by the Neapolitan Government, to which a third was added by the French Government to act as arbitrator.

COFFEE-DUTIES. On Wednesday, in answer to Sir Romewr PEEL, Mr. LABOUcHERE stated that the delay in the Coffee-duties Bill was occasioned by the circumstance of the commercial treaty with France not being yet concluded. At this late period of the sessiou, he had come to the determination not to press the bill this year.

ScCLESIASTIC AL Comas. Lord MDR PET11, 011 Thursday, brought in Dbill to amend the act for the better regulation of the Ecclesiastical Courts. Ile said, that as it seemed to be 'felt by the I louse when last the case of John Thorogood was under consideration, that that person had suffered a sufficient length of imprisonment, this bill had been framed to enable the Court, under whose process he was incarcerated, to release him with the consent of the parties concerned. The AT- TORNEY-GENERAL informed the House, that the Judge who presided over the Consistorial Court in London had told him, that as the law now stood, Mr. Thorogood could not be discharged even with the con- sent of the parties. The bill was read a first time.

Dr. NICUOLL brought in a bill to amend the law regarding process upon contempt of the Courts Ecclesiastical in England and Ireland, and to facilitate the discharge of persons in custody for contempt of suelo courts. This bill was also read a first time.

ADMINISTRATION OF J comets Btu,. This bill was withdrawn on Thursday, by Lord JOHN RUSsE1.1„ till next session,—mu account of the opposition it had met with front Sir Edward Sugden ADMINISTRATION OS Jusric E is 131 it M INGOtAM. A bill, founded on a resolution of the House in Committee, was brought in on Thursday, to enable the Lords Commissioners of the Treasury to advance money to provide for the administration ofjustice in the borough of Birmingham.

DRAINAGE OS LANDS BHA.. This bill was read a third time and passed by the House of Commons, on Wednesday.