23 FEBRUARY 1850, Page 2

rt1intr5 nth Vteruitingn in Vartinnant.


HOUSE or Loans. Monday, Feb. le. Dolly's Brae : Lord Stanley's Arraignment of the Government, and Lord Clarendon's Defence.

Tuesday, Feb. 19. No proceedings of interest. Thursday, 21. Further Medals to the Army aid Nary urged by the Duke of Rich- mond, and Government reply—Irish Poor-law : Lord Desart's Resolutions, debated and withdrawn.

Friday, Feb. 22. Royal Assent to County Cess (Ireland) Bill—Tenant Agitation in Ireland: Lord Londonderry's Complaint—River Plate : Inquiries by Lord Har- rowby.

Houtm OF COMMONS. Monday, Feb. 18. The Danish War : Statement by Lord Palmerston—Australian Colonies Bill, read a second time after debate—Landlord and Tenant (Ireland) Bill, read a first time—Commons Enclosure Bill, read a first time.

Tuesday, Feb. 19. Local Burdens on Land: Mr. Disraeli's Motion for a Com- mittee, debated, and debate adjourned—Party Processions (Ireland) BM, considered as amended.

Wednesday, Feb. 20. Address for Royal Commission to Ceylon, agreed to—Deer in Forest of Dean—Dissolute Conduct of Officers in Emigrant-ships : Statement by Mr. Hawes—Mr. Moffatt's Bankrupt and Insolvent Members Bill, thrown out on second reading—Small Tenements Rating Bill, read a second time—Benefices in Plurality Bill, read a second time—Larceny Summary Jurisdiction Bill, read a second time—Tenants at Rackrent Relief Bill, read a second time.

Thursday, Feb. 21. Local Burdens on Land : Adjourned Debate on Mr. Disraeli's Motion concluded ; Motion negatived, by 273 to 252. Friday, Feb. 22. Australian Constitution : Committee postponed by Lord John Russell—Abuses in Emigrant-ships : Statements by Mr. Hawes—Party Processions Bill, read a third time and passed—Parliamentary Votes (Ireland) Bill, read a second time after debate—Elections (Ireland) Bill, read a second time—Woods and Forests; Lord John Russell to bring in a Bill for Better Management.


The Lords.

Hour of Hour of

The Commons.

Hour of Hour of

Meeting. Adjournment.

Meeting. Adjournment.


ah 12h 30m


4h . . . . i1h 45m

Tuesday — Bh Cum Tuesday 12h 30m Wednesday No Sitting. Wednesday

Noon .... 5ii 15in


aa 1011 10m


... (m) lh 30m


— eh 30m

Friday ... — .... 9h dim

Sittings this

Week, 4; Ilute,1401 10m - Sittings this Week, 5; Time, 86h 45m — this Session, la; — 6.911 52m this Session,17; — 125h


In opening his arraignment of the Lord Lieutenant and Lord Chan- cellor of Ireland, for their official conduct in regard to the collision at Dolly's Brae Lord STANLEY studiously premised, that he did not wish to cast any imputation upon Lord Clarendon's motive; satisfied that on this occasion, as on every other in the period during which he has been in his high office, his main desire has been to act in consistency with his own duty and for the welfare and tranquillity of Ireland. In proof of Lord Stanley's own aversion torty processions in Leland, he reminded their Lordships that be was the individual Minister who brought in the Processions Act, which continued in healthful operation from 1832 to 1844. Rapidly recalling the facts of the collision on the 12th July, he also admitted, that at the end of the unfortunate transaction there did occur scenes of retaliation and retribntion such as he could neither palliate nor justify. He recounted the commis' sioning of Mr. Berwick ; the refusal by the Castlewellan Magistrates to take the informations proffered at Sessions ; the dismissal of Lord Roden and the Messieurs William and Francis Beers from the Magistracy. Admitting, perhaps, a prima facie case against Mr. William Beers, he could make out no shadow of charge against Mr. Francis Beers, whom Mr. Berwick himself reports to have cooperated with the Stipendiary Magistrate in preventing collision, and to have been most active in restoring peace and saving life afterwards. But if lie admitted all the facts, he found no justification for the course pursued. The Magistrates were justified in supposing that the procession was legal : they consulted the Government self, and learned that party processions as such were not illegal since the ex- piry of the Processions Act ; the Government Stipendiary Magistrates them- selves acted on that opinion ; and though the Government was expressly warned oftener than once that a collision was to be apprehended on this oc- casion, they took not a step, such as former Governments had taken, to warn the Magistrates of their duty, or to inhibit them from that which they are now dismissed for having sanctioned. As military and police attended the procession instead of preventing it, there wanted no fact to make the Magis- trates certain that their proceedings were under the very sanction and pro- tection of Government.

The commission issued to Mr. Berwick was unconstitutional : it presumed a power of delegating functions which the Lord Lieutenant does not possess. Mr. Berwick had no right to administer an oath ; the witnesses before him could not be indicted for perjury, and they were throwing out calumnies on the characters of individuals without that check. In professing to lay before the Lord Lieutenant the "material" portion of the evidence, he garbled and perverted it. For example, he omitted the essential fact that Mr. W. Beers remonstrated with the Orangemen on their turning to repel the attack made by the Itibandmen ; he related how en idiot was barbarously killed by the beating in of his skull,—the fact being that a bullet was the cause of death, and troops of horse had passed over the man's body; he considered it doubt- ful winch party it was that heed the squib mid fired the first two shots,— although a number of the soldiery unconnected with that part of the country swore positively they saw the squib fired on the hill, and then saw two Ri-

hemlines' fire the fast time Are% the only evidence an contradiction being

that of persons whom he elseselkerb says he/lid not believe. These facts ap- pear in detail from the sworn 'verbatim report of a short-hand writer who attended the investigation. The Lord Lieutenant recommended that the three Magistrates should be dismissed, for reasons which he stated ; the Lord Chancellor executed the dismissal as if he had been a mere ministerial officer, without inquiry or deliberation.

Mr. Berwick'ad laid down the law, that all bodies of men assembled un- der circumstances to excite terror and endanger thepubliepeace are illegal and should be suppressed ; and that any body of private persons combined even for

an innocent and lawful object, proceeding to effect their object with a deter- mination to resist opposers by force, is dangerous to the public peace, and the abettors are answerable : this doctrine is a monstrous contradiction to the fundamental principle that every Englishman may defend himself, his family, and property, by numbers and arms. Nothing would have been easier than to apply to the Court of Queen's Bench for a mandamus compel- ling the Magistrates to receive the informations ; but to this day no such application has been made, and to this day the informations are refused. This fact proves 'beyond doubt, that the Magistrates are deemed to have made a proper exercise of their legal discretion in refusing the informations ; and if they have so acted that the Court of Queen's Bench would not question their discretion, the Government have acted with. tyranny and injustice in dismissing them. [This is a bare outline of Lord Stanley's speed, which. lasted three hours.] The Earl of Crailm■-nox replied; but prefaced his " few remarks upon the speech of his noble friend " by a protest that his attendance in Par- liament, at considerable inconvenience to public business in Ireland, should not be considered a precedent for the Lord Lieutenant to appear there in person to answer attacks upon his administration. Ho then in a clear and simple style went over the ground traversed by Lord Stanley, with explanatory and corrective statements. Since the expiry of the Processions let, party processions have been looked. upon not as necessarily or a priori illegal, but liable to become so aocording to the character they assume. It is the opinion of every sound lawyer that if they inspire reasonable terror among the peaceable, they are illegal. In 1848, a procession assembled to pass through Dolly's Zrae ; but hearing that its passage would be disputed, it passed another way. In 1149, the Messieurs Beers deliberately prearranged and led a procession by that road, though they had twelve months' notice that it would probably induce a breach of the • peace. The Government had the fullest private information of the general state of things, and expected a great demonstration on the 12th of July ; but they had no information of the special intentions in particular localities. Lord Clarendon himself superintended the arrangements for preventing disturb- ance ; sending down experienced Police Inspectora, a body of that force, and a body of military. The .procession marched ; after it had passed Dolly's Brae the first time, the Stipendiary Magistrates became apprehensive of collision : Mr. Fitzmaurice urged Lord linden to prevent the return of the procession bye the same way ; but no effort was made by either Lord Roden or the Messieurs Beers to prevent it, although the latter admitted that he could perhaps have prevent- ed it. It must be left to the local Magistracy to determine what is necessary for conserving the peace, the Government supplying the means : if they pre- arrange and sanction that which leads to danger, and afterwards when the danger is pointed out do nothing to prevent it, they are unworthy to remain in the commission of the peace. As to the nature of Mr. Berwick's inquiry, it has been sanctioned not only by successive Governments and Parliaments, but by Lord Stanley himself, in the Maghery and Portglenone daces, when he was Irish Secretary, in 1830-1832. Moreover, Mr. Berwick was himself put in the commission of the peace. The Act .5th and 6th William IV. c. 62„ has been quoted to prove that his examination of witnesses was extra- . judicial and illegal; but the 13th section of that act expressly excepts from its operation all evidence "before any justice" concerning "the preserva- tion of the peace." The Lord Chancellor was "recommended " to dismiss the Magistrates ; and he was enabled to act on that recommendation the same day, because he had himself come to the determination to do so, on investi- gation of proofs. The weight of those proofs is not impeached by criti- cism of Mr. Berwick's report in comparison with the short-hand notes. The Government has information that those notes are grossly false, and that it has been falsely sworn that they were taken in emit: they are in fact a perverted and distorted adaptation of the notes which the Government used in addition to Mr. Berwick's report. Lord Clarendon lamented that upon evidence such as this a man of high judicial character and of unimpeachable conduct should have been charged with garbling and suppressing testimony. In reference to the dismissal of Lord Roden, Lord Clarendon expressed himself as follows—" My Lords, when Mr. Berwick's report came into my hands, I am bound to say that I perused its contents with very great regret : the opinion which I formed from it with reference to the noble Earl I com- municated to my noble friend at the head of the Government; from whom and his colleagues, including the noble Lord on the woolsack, it received the most anxious and careful consideration. The result was, that they appealed to me on the necessity of superseding the noble Earl in the commission of the peace ; and, my Lords, I mutt say that to me it was a most painful act to execute. I had long been honoured with the friendship of the noble Earl. From the moment that I had gone to Ireland until then I had received from him acts of the most useful character. I felt the most sincere respect for him. I knew how much his dismissal would be resented by his nutaerous friends, and the unpopularity I should earn for myself even among those who were not his friends throughout the North of Ireland. I felt and I fore- saw all that: but still there was one feeling superior even to that—a feeling of duty ; a feeling from which I did not venture to shrink, and by which need not assure your Lordships I was alone actuated in the course that I adopted. Ever since the government of Ireland was confided to my care, my great object was to render the law a reality—to inspire all classes of the community with confidence in the impartial administration of justice—to convince them that before the law all men were equal ; and that, whether high or low, rich or poor, the same justice should be meted out to all. ((Much ehcersvg.) And I should have felt ashamed of myself, and unworthy the confidence of my Sovereign, if I had decided in a manner different with respect to the noble Earl to that in which I should have decided in the case of any other man ' • or if I had allowed for one moment any personal considera- tion to interfere withith what I believed the justice of the case required." Lord Clarendon entered into explanations with regard to the allegation that he had furnished, or been privy to furnishing, the Orangemen with arms in the year 1848. He read passages from a private letter by Captain Kennedy, now serving in India, which showed that he, the Captain himself, really furnished the money [6001.] from his own pocket. Lord Clarendon wound up these explanations with this assurance—" I hope it is sufficient for me to give my solemn assurance, that during the whole time I have held office, I never, directly or indirectly, have given a weapon, or a shilling te purchase one, to any person in Ireland." In conclusion, he declared his opinion, that had it not been for this un- fortunate rencontre and its consequences, their Lordships would have had the satisfaction to know that Ireland is now more free on the whole from re- ligious as well us political agitation and agrarian outrage than at any period within recollection. Twenty years of political agitation destructive of in- dustrial prosperity, and a calamity unparallelled for magnitude in ancient or modern history, have left much distress to be relieved. Let us hope that the worst is over, and that the earnest exertions of all classes for the com- mon good may commence that social regeneration with which the best inte- rests of England as well as Ireland are inseparably connected.

The Earl of Romsa repeated his complaint that he had been harshly treated by the Gevernment, and particularly by his noble friend the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland ; whom nevertheless he had always esteemed, and from whom he had received many acts of kindness. Eleven days after this unfortunate occurrence, he wrote to Lord Clarendon pressing him to remove him from the commission of the peace if he thought it would disembarrass himself or benefit the country : Lord Clarendon re- plied courteously and kindly, that such an idea as removing him had not entered his head, and that he would not forget Lord ltoden's desire to sacri- fice himself to remove the difficulties of the ease. He also referred to a letter found in the road, writtenby the Lord Lieutenant's Secretary, advising that a near relative of his should not he allowed to accompany her Majesty to Ire- land. Nothing could more plainly show the desire to degrade him in the eyes of his countrymen.

Lord CiAnmvraas said, it was true that his noble friend had written de- siring him not to be embarrassed by the endeavours of certain parties to drive him from the Magistracy, and pressing him to remove him at once if he thought proper ; but it never crossed Lord Clarendon's mind to turn his friend out as a relief from that embarrassment. The Earl of Wracumsra. and Lard Annarsn addressed the House briefly in condemnation of the Government. Lord 13nonanaat amusingly satirized the volatility of the Irish, and their way of going to these pro- cessions with their Bibles and their blunderbusses, just as if they were going to a picnic; and he gave his opinion that substantial justice has been done and a right course pursued by the Government and Lord Clarendon in this case. The Marquis of asantreanns stated, that in every step which his noble friend the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland had taken on this subject, he had the entire cooperation, and the fullest approbation of her Majesty's Government.

Lord Sraarrxr professed himself well satisfied with the result of the debate ; and the motion for papers, unopposed by Ministers, was agreed to by the House.

[The present House of Lords has never been so full as it was on this occasion : the Peers attended in unusual numbers ; many ladies were present ; and the space below the bar for Members of the House of Com- mons was crowded to suffocation.] 'wen Poen-Law.

The following resolutions were moved by the Earl of DERART on Thurs- day.

" 1. That under the provisions of the existing Poor-law, the resources of many districts have been found utterly inadequate for the support of the po- pulation; that while the act has thus failed to accomplish its purpose, it has produced bankruptcy and ruin in some districts, has driven capital out of the country, and has enfeebled and paralyzed the efforts of both farmers and landlords. 2. That it is the opinion of this House that these mischiefs have resulted from the extension of the Poor-law of 1888, and the adoption of a system of out-door relief at that time not contemplated; and it is further their opinion that no permanent system for the relief of the poor can be carried out in Ireland safely and beneficially to receivers or payers without a return to the principle of the original law, by a strict application of in-door relief to all classes of paupers." Lard Desert contended that the extension of the Poor-law in the sum- mer of 1847 fatally aggravated the calamity of that year ; and he cited a number of statistics, some of which have been quoted before, respecting the amount of relief in Ireland, and particularly in the distressed-districts, to prove the hopeless state into which out-door relief had brought the ad• ministration of the Poor-law. He maintained that every district should support its own poor, without rates in aid to support other districts. He would direct labour into useful -channels, by arterial drainage or similar improvements ; and would aid the emigration of those who are neither willing nor able to assist in the regeneration of their own country.

The long debate which followed was distinguished by the endless reitera- tion of arguments, with little advance of the question on either side' ex- cept here and there a stray addition. Lord Morrseats, for instance, asserted, that the reduction of Poor-law expenditure in Ireland is not at- tributable to an improved condition of the people but to the exhaustion of means. There would be no satisfactory footing for the relief of the poor until Lord Melbourne's act, precluding out-door relief; should be restored. Ina recent tour, Lord Clarendon and Lord Monteaglehadthcir attention &meted to the amount of produce as compared with the pro- duce of former years, and they could not resist the conclusion that it is, muchless. In the barony of Newcastle, the value of the land has sunk 25 per cent, and yet the rates have been augmented elevenfold ; and that is not an isolated instance.

The-Marquis of LANSDOWNE opposed the motion. He insisted that the condition of Ireland is improving, and that the improvement is due to the advances for improving landed property and the Encumbered Estates Act. Oat-door relief he justified, not on abstract principle, but on the necessity of preserving life ; and the number of paupers is under a process of gra- dual reduction. The number of persons relieved in the week ending on the first Saturday in February had fallen from 546,407 in 1849 to 124,621 in-1850 ; the week's cost of relief had fallen from 14,081/. to 2,6731. In eighteen unions of Connaught the monthly expenditure has been reduced from 33,0001. to 17,0001.; the number of persons receiving out-door re- lief, from 98,000 to 11,000 ; in the workhouses, from 87,000 to 34,000. He always objected to resolutions binding the future action of Parliament, even when he agreed with their principle. He moved that the House proceed to the order of the day. The resolutions were supported by Lord ABINGER, the Earl of GLEN- GALL, the Earl of CLARE, Lord STANLEY, (though he advised Lord Desert to be content with having elicited the general condemnation of out-door relief,) the Earl of LUCAN, and Lord BEAUMONT : opposed by the Earl of WICKLOW, the Earl of DEVON, (who said that pauperism is decidedly di- minishing in the Newcastle union,) the Marquis of CLANRICARDR and Earl GREY.

Taking Lord Stanley's advice, Lord DEW= withdrew his resolutions.


In moving for a Committee of the whole House to consider such revisal of the Poor-laws as might mitigate the agricultural distress, Mr. DISRAELI observed, that the depression among the classes who found no sympathy from her Majesty's Government at the meeting of Parliament, has become even darker and more lowering.

The factitious employment of the labouring population, which to the honour.- of this country has taken place, necessarily dimmishes daily ; and when the. poor-law returns since the first day of the year are made up, they will show an mcrease of pauperism : the enormous farming capital of the country returns no profit, and the value of the fee itself is depreciated. They had then to inquire how that unprecedented depression could be removed or mitigated, Speaking with perfect frankness, and speaking not only foe himself, Mr. Dia, raeli could not shuthis eyes to the practical conclusion that a large majority in both Housesof Parliament wish not M disturb at present the settlement recently arrived at ; and his party are convinced that no remedial measures as far as au abrogation of recent legislation can be obtained from the present Parliament. Thejust alternative would seem to be, that we should adapt our position to the altered case, and revise taxation with reference to its equal and just dis- tribution : the claim of these connected with the soil is, therefore, that the.y. should be placed on an equality with their fellow subjects, and that in their own market they should be placed on an equality with the foreigner. As long as you passed hawk which according to the opinion either of their, upholders or opponents were calculatedto raise rents, it was right to analyze the relative interests of the owner and occupier • but the moment you re- solve that the land of England shall enter into free competition with all the soils of all thekingdoms of the globe, from that moment you ought no longer to busy yourself in discriminating the interests of the owner and tenant, but to deal only with the interests of the land. The concurrent opinion of Mr. Disraeli's party, and of leading and most influential men opposed to the landed interest, is that our recent laws will throw a great quantity of land eat of cultivation ; according to all, there is one olass -of land that will cer- tainly be abandoned by the cultivator. Now he put it to the House, that the amount of the peculiar taxation Which he was about to eons der may make up the exact margin that, being removed or retained, may permit that land to be tilled or doom it to sterility. He rebutted the assumptions you frequently hear, that the proprietor class is a luxurious, indolent, and aristo- cratic class : if you divide the whole rental of England-60,000,0001.—by the number of the proprietors, (205,000,) the average income resulting is about 2401. a year each; and as we know that many have much more, there must be many. with much less than that : they are the most thrifty, industrious, hard-living class, as a whole, that .einsts in the United rmgdom. Entering on the main subject, Mr. Disraeli recalled former estimates of his„which were acknowledged by the Chancellor of the Exchequer' that the amount of the peculiar taxation of the land is about 14,000,0001. Thence he passed to the consideration of the nature of the Poor-laws. Now, whether you vindicate the Poor-law on principles of police, or consider itras we do in England, a matter of social duty, the burden of supporting the poor ought to full equally on all, and not to be a taxation of a class or an impost on one kind of property:. Every one knows this is not the case : setting aside details, after all, the vast mass -of the property of the country does not fulfil the social duty which all acknowledge. One of the objections to alteration gravely profess4 is the dread of infringing on " our happy system of local government" : that system should not be endangered; but it is not impos- sible to reconcile local management with general taxation; it must be confessed that in attempting to solve the problem the whole question of the law- of settlement must be determined for ever. Another objec- tion is, that the land in this country has been inherited subject to this and all other charges. But this is not true at least as regards Ireland; nor as regards Scotland, nor in respect of a considerable portion of land in Eng- land. A surprising number of very considerable estates, and some very interesting tenures, were not originally subject to this charge. He stood opposite to a noble Lord the son of one of our greatest houses—one which had used its vast possessions generally for the honour and jlignity of England. --which certainly did not inherit or otherwise acquire those vast possessions subject to the provisions of the 43d Elizabeth. (Cheers and laughter.) But in principle if you say property was inherited subject to an impost, was it not also taken subject to laws which gave it an adventitious value by securing a market and offering a bonus ? With these general explanations Mr. Disraeli stated, that the first point he would consider in Committee would be the charges known in Poor-law ad- ministration by the name of theestablishment charges. Those he would have defrayed out of general revenue of the state after the 25th March 1850. These are modern unlocal charges - by their transfer local burdens would be di- minished about 1,500,0001. Sieondly, he would deal with all rates raised Jay the Poor-law machinery which have nothing to do with the relief of the poor— excepting the police and county rates ; charges for registering births and deaths, preparing jury and burgess lists, executing the Nuisances Act, the Sanatory Acts, the Vaccination Act, and such irrelevant matters : local bur- dens of this kind, amounting to 700,000/. for the United Kingdom, he would transfer to the charge of the Consolidated Fund. Lastly, he would transfer to the charge of the general revenue of the kingdom the whole cost of re- lieving the casual poor. This is not even at presort a parochial charge ; it is alreadypaid out of a common fund—the union rate. These propositions are just and practicable they destroy no old principles or machinery ; and their., `cost may be well discharged out of that balance in the Exchequer of which we have heard much and hope more.

Mr. Disraeli concluded by offering the following motion-

.' That this House will resolve itself into a Committee of the whole House, to take . into its consideration such revision of the laws providing for the relief of the poor of ' thekirdted Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland ae may mitigate the distress of the ogricaltural classes."

Sir %GAGE GREY congratulated Mr. Disraeli's friends behind him on ' the pleasine they must have received from his speech : they must indeed

have rejoiced, amidst their hearty cheering,. they heard him admit that during the present Parliament at least theta is no hope of a return to protection : no one surely would taunt him with having used language at of the House to maintain a mischievous delusion and keep an ignis fatuus before the fanner!

Mr. Disraeli's assumption of the existence, of agricultural distress .is gm? tuitous ; his supposition that pauperism has recently increased has no solid.. foundation. Speakiug from information accessible to him officially, Sir George stated his Bin belief that during the month of January pauperism has not increased—more especially if allowance be made for the effect of the . frost in suspending•drailling operation's 'OR the land. The criminal. returns show a striking diminution in crime. In Middlesex, there were committed, in 1849, 593 fewer persons than iu 1848 ; and the Recorder of London lately stated. his belief that the decrease will not be tempomrv, but permanent in character. The comparative number of persons for trial at the Epiphany Sessions in England and Wales, in 1849, was 4,448 • in 1800, 3,980; showing a decrease of 463 in the oominittals of the rural districts, or a difference of 10 tier cent. Theie facts show that a larger portion of the population can maintain themselves without seeking the aid or risking the penalties of the

Liles. Sir John M'Neill, the President of the Poor-law Board in Scotland, writes—" Except in some parts of the Highlands and Islands, the working classes of Scotland, agricultural, manufacturing, and mining, urban and rural, taken together, have not, during the four years that I have been con- nected with this board, been at any time so well off as they have been during the last half of 1849." It is not denied that distress exists among the own- ers and occupiers of land ; the Queen herself, by the advice of her Ministers, expressed her regret at that distress i

but it is denied that the distress even among those classes is of unprecedented degree ' • it is less than it was at many periods that could be named—less even than it was twelve months from this time. It is even admitted that in many cases the wages of agri- cultural labourers have been reduced to a greater degree than they have been compensated by the reduced prices of the necessaries of life : but Sir George could say from his own knowledge that it is not the case in North North- umberland, nor in many other Northern counties; and it is not the result of general inquiries throughout the country. Though dealing with the Poor-law, Mr. Disraeli had fought shy of the all-important question of settlement. To his scheme of transferring local taxation to general taxation there is the objection, that it would require an abolition of the law of settlement and a national rate. Sir o n

......orge announ- ced that the inquiries instituted by his lamented friend Mr. Charles Buller, and prosecuted by Mr. Baines, have established that the law of settlement does operate to the detriment of the labourer in his effort to dispose of his labour to the best advantage. The Government will he able at no distant date to make some proposition to the House on that important subject. Mr. Disraeli had fallen into his old error of confounding " real property"

with "landed interest." He says that the "landed interest" is burdened with 12,000,000/. of local taxation, as if it pressed exclusively on the cultivated soil ,• whereas the above amount of burdens falls on "real property," includ- ing houses, factories, railroad; and mines, to more than half the amount of the whole capital burdened. The original. Poor-law, the 43d of Elizabeth, required that the property to be rated should be local, visible, and produc- tive within the parish in which the owner resided : these conditions cannot coexist with the great bulk of personal property = and if they did, it would be impracticable to investigate every man's affairs and profits so as to fix justly the amount of his contribution from personality. But while the bur- dens embraced in the poor-rate are levied on real property, the land is not more heavily taxed than the other species of real property, nor is it increas- ingly taxed. In 1843, the total value of real property assessed was 85,802,735/. ' • of this the land represented 40,167,0881., houses 35,556,400f., railways 2,417,6101., all other property 7,661,6371. In 1848, the land re- ,presented 41,179,7131., houses 37,282,1401., railways 5,465,584/, and all other property 7,245,034/. The land, therefore, was not the largest amount in 1843 ; and in 1848 its relative proportion had diminished, owing to the more rapid rise in the value of the other elements. In a document submitted to the Lords' Committee in 1846 by Lord Montesee,—a nobleman whose views on this subject will be received with respect,—it is stated that "the rate has been decreasing, the property on which it is levied augmenting, the relative amount apportioned on land diminishing; and the whole amount expended, as compared with the population, has been greatly reduced."

Sir George opposed Mr. Disraeli's proposition to transfer the enumerated burdens to the Imperial Treasury, upon the particular grounds that such transfer would lose you all the advantages of local surveillance on expendi- ture, and that nothing had fallen from the Chancellor of the Exchequer to justify the assumption that there will be a financial surplus equal to the burdens to be dealt with; and on the general ground that it is imprudent to anticipate the appropriation of the surplus without a comprehensive view of 411 the interests of the country. . In conclUsion, Sir George sarcastically urged the danger of conceding

hastily this fret measure of the series which they were to expect from Mr. Disraeli : they must hear first his ulterior measures. In the old baronial hall of Headingham Castle, he rated the transfer of local taxation as but a slight benefit, and broached the plan of a sinking-fund, to be founded on

an ad-valorem duty on all articles of foreign import whatever." Does he -still "stake his reputation" that that is the " weapon" with which he shall " win the battle" ; and if he obtain the transfer of burdens he de- mands, will he still aim to gain this weapon of an ad-valorem duty on all articles of foreign import whatever ? Sir George trusted that this debate would have the effect of undeceiving many who had been deluded in the old baronial hall of Headingham Castle by lir. Disraeli's " brilliant corusca- tions," as they have been called : he trusted that the plain sense talked in the House of Commons might dissipate all vague hopes of a return to pro- tection, and cherish among the agriculturists of the country a spirit of rely- ing upon themselves to remedy the evils they now deplore. The other speeches on Tuesday evening were generally uninteresting.

Mr. Disraeli's motion found supporters in Mr. SEYMER, Sir Jolt's Tv- BELL, and Lord Joan Mammas ; opponents in Mr. Rica, Mr. Hos- Housz, and Mr. Balmer. Mr. CHARTERIS would go into Committee, but not on the grounds laid down : the farmers make no appeal ad misericor- diem, but ask only justice. Mr. ANDERSON stated his intention not to propose an amendment of which he had given notice ; he preferred the motion to be dealt with on its own grounds : he then argued against pro- tection. Captain Pinatem believed the distress to be temporary. Mr. HENRY Dnuiueoan uttered a succession of his sarcastic facetice against the Manchester gentlemen and their school, and satirized the ignorance

• of the manufacturers.

It is notorious that the latter are as ignorant of chemistry, dyes, and pig- ments, as the blocks with which their patterns are printed. The House, in- deed, had taken pity on their dense stupidity and vulgarity, when they con-

fessed that nothing but the cheapness of their wares enabled them to find a market : there was not a man in Europe who would not prefer the better taste and more beautiful manufacture of France, or even of the Chinese. Gentlemen opposite wish the taxes upon advertisements to be taken off: yes, they want to be puffed in the newspapers. (Great laughter.) He insisted upon it that the tax upon beer should be removed, but honourable gentlemen opposite said "No." When a poor labourer, who got wet through

in 250 out of the 310 working days in the year, went home, instead of a

glass of ale, they would give him a newspaper to read ! (Loud laughter.) Till every Englishman could use his own barley as he likes, pick his own hops off his own hedges, and grow his own tobacco at home' there would be no peace. (Great laughter.) He proceeded in this strain till Ministerial

• cries interrupted him inconveniently. The Speaker vainly calling order, Mr. Drummond remarked, that "whenever he saw gentlemen with white waist- coats and brilliant eyes, he knew it was quite impossible to control them," and therefore he sat down.

r. STAFFORD'S motion, the debate was adjourned till Thursday.

e, debate on Thursday was opened by Mr. Srasaoars, in a good Pro- tu)jt4 490,0001. to the Consolidated Fund.speech. He calculated that Ireland would be relieved by the ttansfei

Sir •I Graham and Sir Robert Peel rose together : the former would: Olgiven way, but he proceeded in deference to a general in- vitation. -1-4 Sir h, aste Gaaaaa insisted that the real question was, not the minor c3.

motion before the House, but the expediency of commencing an entire re- view of the whole fiscal burdens of the country.

Mr. Disraeli had said that this was only the first of a series of measures involving local taxation to the amount of 12,000,000,1_2. allusions had also been made to the Land-tax and the Malt-tax ; so that the gross amount

up- der discussion would be 18,000,0001. or 20,000,0001. Nay, more, it involves a change of Administration ; for the Duke of Richmond avowed as much in the House of Lords.

The manner of making the motion was also peculiar. If the House went into Committee, it could not adopt an operative or effective measure for transferring local burdens to the Consolidated Fund without the consent of the Crown ; the Committee could only adopt a resolution of opinion, which might just as well be moved in full House as in Committee; but in Com- mittee it is allowable to move amendments and modifications : so that Mr. Disraeli's skilfully because slightly sketched motion was calculated to en- trap many to support him who did not quite agree with him. It bad pro- duced that effect, for Mr. Charteris had been caught by this device.

Though the proposed plan would dangerously violate principles, the relief would be insignificant—as regards all tenants except those under leases, totally inoperative ; for it would be absorbed in additional rent. It would remove from local expenditure the check of local management ; that cheek under which the poor expenditure fell by 15 per cent in England alone in 1849, and the casual poor relief in Scotland by 11 per cent in 1847-8. In Scot- land there already exists a system of rating means and substance in popu- lous and large districts : what will the rate-payers say when called upon to contribute over again in diminution of the English poor-rates? But the motion also involved a reversal of recent policy in regard to taxation, by re- augmenting indirect taxes, against the experienceof the Exchequer, which shows that we have proceeded as far as is practicable in that direction. You cannot pursue the exclusive interests 'of one class at the expense of the en- tire community ; any class that has not the community at its back must be powerless : this has been proved by the results of that improvident bargain which the landed interest accepted when it took a Parliamentary, guarantee for an eighty-shilling corn price as compensation for restoring a depreciated standard of value. The landed interests are now about to pursue their class in- terests, asking for the reimposition of the Corn-laws : rather let them seek relief for the working classes from the weight of taxation on their small luxuries and humble fare. The taxes on timber, bricks, butter, cheese, soap, tea, coffee, sugar, molasses, currants, raisins, tobacco, spirits, beer, and malt, amount to 31,000,0001.—more than the interest of the National Debt : is there justice or equity, then, in transferring existing burdens from realized property to the shoulders of the humbler classes, commercial, manufacturing, and rural, on whom that larger burden mainly rests ?—especially since the landed inte- rest has been relieved in the natural progress of the country ? The charge of the poor-rate in 1813 was 12s. 8d. per head ; it is now 68. 6d. ; and if the hirger sum was paid in a depreciated currency, it is the fact that the value of real property brought to charge in a depreciated currency was 51,000,000/., in 1844 it was 85,000,0001., in 1848 it was 91,000,000/. Nor is that all : the proportion of taxes borne by land, as contradistinguished from other realized property--eqnstIR, docks, factories, railroads, &o.—in England, stood as follows : in 1826, land paid 69 per cent, other realized property 31; in 1841, land 62, other property 48;. in 1849, land 45, other property 55. Moreover, in any parish you will find that the land is not rated up to its, real value, while other property is rated up to its last shilling. in 3, parishes 'traversed by railroads, of 800,0001. paid to the poor 250,0001. is contributed by railroads. Again, the repeal of the Navigation-laws involves an alteration of the Timber-duties ;the Income- tax expires in 1851; and it would be most impolitic now to rush in and sweep away the revenue while such financial questions are waiting discussion. The prosperity of the country is advancing—proved by such statements as one that he read from Glasgow ; and it is impossible that the landed interest can long fail to participate in that general prosperity. Mr. Scott and Mr. Gladstone rose together; but the Protectionist party called for Mr. GLADSTONE ; and he stated his reasons for voting with Mr. Disraeli. We can only enumerate them. He could not concur with his -friend Sir James Graham in voting mainly with a reference to propositions not before the House. He limited his view to the motion ; but certainly he should not support it if he thought that it involved a reversal of the Free-trade policy. He .agreed that local manage- ment is a stimulus to economy ; but he would go into Committee to consider the charges—such as establishment charges and the like—which do not need that check, and might therefore be transferred to the Consolidated Fund. As a matter of justice, it is clear that property should be made liable for the maintenance of the poor. He supported the motion mainly because he thought it would have a tendency to lessen the agitation for the restoration of protection, by drawing off the moderate ; and the struggling class which now makes its claim upon the House should be met with and and en- couragement.

Mr. Jamas WrisoN opposed the motion with a long statistical speech, chiefly directed to show that the country has not suffered by repeal of the Corn-laws ; that the extremely low prices are transitory ; and that there is a danger of a recurrence to high prices, since the stocks at Dant- zic, Odessa, &c. are very low.

Mr. BUCK feared that before Christmas the price would be 4s. a bushel; and he claimed perfect free trade—that is, removal of all duties. Mr. GRANTLEY BERKELEY supported the motion, and attacked the Manchester school.

Sir ROBERT PEEL spoke at considerable length ; commencing with a compliment to Mr. Disraeli, for the ability, temper, and moderation with which he had introduced the subject.

Expressing a sincere sympathy for the distress of the agricultural classes, Sir Robert was interrupted by " a curious noise; apparently expressive of a certain honourable Member's by of this sincenty" ; and, amid the cheers of the House, he said he should take no notice of those "inarticulate sounds," which were, no doubt, as good arguments as any others the Member who made them was able to utter. Admitting the diet srms, he imputed it to causes which had produced still greater distress while protection was in force, and which now produce equal or greater distress in other countries—such as France and Belgium—still under the influence of protection. It is aggra- vated by the propagation of undue alarm : professors of agriculture in Scot- land are seen telling the farmers that Indian corn can be introduced into this country at twelve shillings the quarter ; whereas the price at Liverpool, Limerick, Cork, or Dublin, is fluctuating probably between twenty-seven and thirty-one shillings. But the increasing consumption of the people must be wit- nessed with the greatest satisfaction : m 1849 there was a great increase in con- sumption of British wheat, and concurrently with that the enormous consump- tion of 5,600,000 quarters of foreign wheat—consumed and paid for by the pro- duce of the people's industry. That increase is not in the consumption of the upper classes ; m times of prosperity the middle classes may increase their consumption of luxuries, but not of prime necessaries ; it is in the consump- tion of the working classes : that enormous increase in the consumption of wheat of prime quality, therefore, strikingly indicates the general ease and increasing comfort of the people. There must be a similar -increase of de- mands for other agricultural produce. Taking into consideration these Cr-

cumstances, with the capital and skill of our agriculturists, it is plain that they need not fear competition with the agriculturists of any other country.

Mr. Gladstone chose to consider the motion without any ulterior questions ; Sir Robert differed from him. It might be all very well to invite a young Member to go into Committee on the mere terms of the motion; but the mover himself practised no such deception : he had avowed a series of mea- sures involving 14,000,0001. of taxation, of which this was only a small and partial instalment, that would not close the account. Out of the House, Mr. Disraeli had suggested one great source of relief for the agricultural interest, in raising the Public Funds, lowering the rate of interest, and thus affording facilities of relief from charges to which landed proprietors are now subject. There is great force in that part of his suggestions; and if you were to effect it by legitimate means, you would achieve a great object. But any blow at the public creditor must impede that operation; any plan which anticipates

a surplus must preclude such an operation. On the other hand, look at the working of such duties as those on bricks, which oblige the bricks to be of a

certain size and form, and prevent landlords from improving farm-huildings and dwellings for labourers—the remission of a duty like that, though that produces only 600,000/. to the revenue, would afford mere relief to the landed interest than Mr. Disraeli's present motion. This appears still plainer from

another calculation. In 1849, the land paid only 45 per cent of the charges on real property, only 900,0001. out of the 2000,0001.: by the transfer of the

gross sum, therefore, to the Consolidated Fund, the landed interest would purchase remission of 900,000/. for itself by relieving another description of property to the amount of 1,100,0001.—houses, mills, factories, &c.—the

owners of which, it is admitted, have benefited by the recent changes in le- gislation. But the agriculturist will have to make up for the loss caused by the transfer of that 1,100,0001.

Virtually, the course proposed would be a reversal of the recent financial policy : in 1842 it was thought that the industrial classes merited relief; and now it is proposed to transfer taxes from the land to those classes. The

policy of remitting taxation in 1842 has completely answered : there has been more contentment and more submission under priva-more unaf-

fected loyalty, and more refusal to listen to sedition or join in agitation, than could have been expected in another state of things. Sir Robert wound up with a vindication of his policy, especially against attacks out of doors by

Lord Henry, Bentinck, who had imputed to him interested motives. He hoped that he should not live to see the House of Commons retrace its steps. rd JOHN RUSSELL reinforced and continued the arguments of Sir Robert Peel and Sir James Graham ; and, in a tone of respectful defer-

ence, gravely rebuked Sir Robert Peel for having thought it necessary to vindicate his personal motives.

Lord HENRY BENTINCK complained of a habit in Sir Robert Peel of attacking non-combatant and unequal antagonists ; and he invited Sir

Robert to deny that he had one-fourth of his property in land and three- fourths in funds or mortgages. The late Sir Robert Peel said of the Currency Bill of 1819 that it had ruined the country and raised the for- tunes of his family. [Lord Henry was shouted down.)

Sir Reimer PEEL said that if Lord Henry Bentinck would reverse the proportion of property in land and funds, it would be nearer the truth ; as to mortgages, he had not a shilling upon mortgages. Mr. DLSRAELI replied with criticisms on points of the previous speak- ers, and answers upon particulars. He warned Sir James Graham against

leading to confusion by persisting in arraying the community against the aristocracy ; and, promising Ireland 500,0001. out of the 2,000,000/. to be saved, he claimed the support of the Irish Members.

The House divided—For Mr. Disraeli's motion, 252 ; against it, 273 ; majority against the motion, 21. The announcement of numbers was loudly cheered by the Protectionists.

CoroNter, CoNsarrunoss : THE BILL FOR Aventarse.

On the motion for reading a second time the Australian Colonies Go- vernment Bill, Mr. Scan moved that the " second reading be postponed -until further papers on the subject be laid on the table of the House." He would be sorry to see such a measure defeated, but some of its pro- visions ought not, in a constitutional point of view, to be assented to without the most deliberate consideration.

In particular, it is proposed to continue in the Australian Colonies the principle of a single house of Legislature. He believed we were not likely to retain our Colonial empire if we gave it constitutions, as this in, wholly differ- ent from that which we ourselves proclaim to be in principle and practice so much the best. In some points the constitution in the bill is assimilated to the government of Republican France—in others to the federal constitu- tion of the United States. He desired to proceed with the bill, but demanded more evidence on its provisions. Mr. LABOUCHERE doubted whether Mr. Scott, the agent of the Colo- nies, spoke the feelings of the colonists in preferring a constitution re- sembling in most respects that sent out to the Cape, which included a double Chamber.

The Government admits that in the papers laid before the House there is no evidence proving the deliberate opinion of the colonists to be that finally and permanently a single Chamber would be better than a double one ; but the universal desire is to hold fast to present institutions in preference to new schemes ready cut and dried. The present bill unties the hands of the colonists, and leaves to them to suggest such form of government as will in their opinion most benefit them. Mr. ROEBUCK._objected to proceed in the manner Mr. Labouchere would hive them proceed. • The so-called legislation by the colonists is to be legislation by Crown nominees. Of all the abortions which had ever proceeded from an incom- petent Administration, this bill is the worst It sets forth seven or eight statutes—recited without repeating them; it then divides an existing colony into parts ; and then it proceeds to legislate for each of the new colonies by reference to the acts previously recited : so that to understand any portion of the bill you must know all the seven or eight acts it recites. The colony is then told they have a sort of constitution already, and that it may enlarge that, subject to the approval of the Colonial Office. Mr. Labouchere objects to a cut and dried constitution for Australia ; how then can he send one cut and dried for South Africa ? The Colonial Office is working to bring about the separation of the Colonies. Look at the history' of the New England Colonies : while left to their own unobstructed energies, they prospered ; in the midst of their success the Iniperial Government interfered ; quarrels ensued ; discon- tents swelled till rebellion was consummated by independence. Cross the St. Lawrence and the same unhappy influences threatened to produce the same un- happy mischief; the same in Australia, in Africa, and New Zealand. English- men conceive a distaste for emigrating to colonies so governed. The power of the Office, nominally in the hands of the Secretary of State, is really wielded by the permanent subordinates behind them. Lord Joan RUSSELL defended the construction of the bill. The com- mencement which Mr. Roebuck so criticized was a characteristic common to many other bills ; and it is surely not too much to ask that care, at- tention, and legal knowledge, should be requisite for understanding a bill -whieh is to govern a great colony. Mr. Roebuck would have it that every constitution must be settled by Parliament ; a theory quite inconsistent with the actual history of the New South Wales constitution. The Crown can grant a constitution. Under that, constitution, if the people of the colony represented that they would prefer two Chambers to one, their representations would be laid before that House ; and the Committee of Privy Council, to whom it would be referred, would seriously consider the mode of granting such an alteration. " When," said Lord John, " the honourable gentleman talks of the Colonial Office, he altogether indulges his imagination. The clerks of the Colonial Office, 63 whom he alludes, although they do their duty with great ability, have not to decide questions of this kind, nor have they to be decided by the Secretary of State. He refers a question of this magnitude to the Committee of Privy Council; they make their report to the Government on the subject ; it is considered by the Government ; and then a measure is introduced. We pro- pose to give weight to the opinions of the colonists. We say—' We will listen to your opinions, and we will introduce among you a Legislature simi- lar to that which you have at present, giving more power to the Legislature but maintaining the principles of its constitution, and that will iemain until. you have maturely considered a different form of representation; and if you think of framing a better Legislature, then that shall be considered in this country, and a favourable view will be taken of your opinions upon that i subject. The Crown may give its assent, but that is the nature of the con- stitution of this country.' " He was not saying that a constitution with two Chambers is not a better thing than one with only one Chaniber : he thought it a better form to have two. But if they had to frame such a constitution at once, it is very doubtful if they would at once hit on such a provision as- would be approved of by the colonists in Australia ; and as to the Cape con- stitution, it places the elective power in the hands of bodies and persons who do not exist in Australia. There would be the risk, therefore, of framing a constitution not acceptable to the wishes or not suitable to the circumstances of the colonists ; and only upon the return of reports from the colony should we be able to frame the bill aught. There are considerable difficulties in working the scheme of a double Chamber in our Colonies—where you have not the advantage of great achievements, great properties, or historical distinctions, afforded in ancient countries, nor the great population trained from youth in the busi- ness of legislation afforded by the United States of America. A senate, formed of such materials as those of the United States Sends is uniformly respected .throughout the world. But it is not easy, at once pomting to a given colonyr to find the materials or organize the selection of two Chambers that shrill, have authority and influence with the Government. The United States have been contrasted with Canada, and the Colonial Office has been the bugbe,ar to which is attributed all that is defective in the latter compared with the free-, dom of the former. "I don't know," said Lord John, "in what respect the United Provinces of Canada are not as free as the States. It is true that they don't elect their own Governor. On the other hand, with regard to their tariffs and several other subjects—with regard to the duties on customs which are imposed—they have far greater liberty than the United States have, and are more at liberty to pursue their own course. I believe the dissensions which have prevailed in Canada for many years have been a great obstacle tom their progress. I believe that the unfortunate difference made on the sug- gestion of Lord Grenville between Lower and Upper Canada, was the cause of the slow progress made by one province as compared with that of the other. But they have now a free constitution; and they have had a great increase of wealth, as shown by their exports and imports, by the increase of their po- pulation, and by the prodigious increase in the property which has been assessed in those provinces. There is no measurefor their own internal benefit to which the Secretary of State would hesitate for a moment in giVing his approbation, if his approbation were required ; but the greater part of the questions which arise before that Legislature are settled in effect by the peo- ple of Canada themselves ; and the Secretary of State and the Colonial Office, of which the honourable and learned gentleman has so much horror, say nothing at all upon the subject, and do not interfere to prevent the execu- tion of whatever they think best for themselves." The present bill had been framed with considerable care, after knowingthe opinions entertained in New South Wales ; and it had, as far as could be learned, been already' approved of there ; they would be unwise therefore to throw it out in favour of one on their own notion. He advocated the bill "on the principle of allowing the people to govern themselves" - for, said Lord John, "I say we stand far more upon that principle than the honourable and learned gentleman, who, mistaking the history of the Colo- nies, and misrepresenting the constitution of this country, would endeavour induce nduce you to set aside the Crown, and the opinions of the colonists and the Legislature, only on some fantastic notions." Mr. FREDERICK PEEL. had no objection to offer to the greater part of the measure ; the main principle of the bill—the principle of popular re- presentation—had his hearty approval : his opposition was pointed at the organization of the legislative assembly ; he owned a predilection for a double Chamber.

He admitted that abstract legislation would be unjustifiable where it op- -- posed the expressed wishes or the peculiar circumstances of the colonists. 'Their opinions were to be collected from four distinct sources in the Colonies themselves,—from the public meetings ; the proceedings of the Legislative Council ; those of the Rtecutive Council ; and the despatches of the Go- vernors. Now to whichever of these sources you look, you cannot find any opinion adverse to the division of the legislative authority between two bodies. Believing that policy to be supported by general reasoning, to be borne out by experience, and to be in harmony with the circumstances, cha- racter, and wishes of the colonists, he could not think that any other policy

could be advantageously substituted in this instance. • --

Sir Wtiusaiir Monrswoans thought it would be a wise policy to assent unanimously to the principle of this bill, and so indicate to the Australian! Colonies our anxiety speedily to give them the benefit of representative government : he would therefore offer no opposition to its first stages, but claimed the opportunity of discussing in Committee questions concerning the form of government, and the powers to be delegated to the Colonial authorities.

It would be better also if the noble Lord were to reframe and reshape the bill for in its present state it is so complicated and confused ; that no man could understand it, unless also he almost knew by heart the Constitutional Act of New South Wales. To illustrate this confusion, take a hypothethial Case, and follow it out. Suppose an honourable Member wished to ascertain what were to be the powers of District Council], he would not find them-in this bill, but he would find sundry clauses which would refer him to the Constitutional Act ; in that. act he would discover numerous clauses about District Councils, one of which would appear to him to be utter nonsense ; and then he would have to return to the noble Lord's bill to ascertain' whe- ther that incomprehensible clause was or was not to be repealed. Again, suppose an honourable Member wished to ascertain what is to be the elective franchise in the colony, say of Van Diemen's Land. He would not find it in this bill. He would find in clause 6, that the present Legislature of Van Diemen's Land " may reduce the minimum value of land re- quired to confer the right of voting." He would then naturally ask, where was the amount of this minimum value to be found? and the clause would answer, in provisions not specifically contained in this bill, but "hereinafter by reference contained " in it. He would then proceed to search for these " hereinafter by reference contained provisions," and would find in _clause 11 that this expression meant certain provisions of an act of the sixth year of her Majesty, us altered and amended by an act of the eighth year of

r Majesty k and after having easefully read through both of these statutes,

Ire would arrive at this result, whichmight be stated in a few words—name- ly, that the Legislature of Van Diemen's-Land may fix the minimum value of land required to confer the right of voting at any sum not exceeding 200t. It would be easy to multiply instances of this kind. A chief objection to the bill arises out of the peculiar shape thus given to it. No question respecting the franchise, the qualification of members, the duration of Parliament, the power of the Colonial Office to instruct the Governor, or disallow bills, can be raised directly on this bill, but only indirectly, through the references to the Constitutional Act of New South Wales. It would be extremely difficult to take the sense of the Committee on these questions, if the bill retained its present shape. The alteration need not cause delay, for he believed that with the aid of a skilful draftsman the alterations he desiderated might be easily made in a single day. They should then have a bill which could easily be understood and d' ussed • and, if it were passed, would not on account of its form be an opprobrium to their legislation. For if it became law in its present shape, the constitution of the Australian Colonies would not be con- tained in this bill, but might be described as being contained in an act of the tenth year of her Majesty, for the Government of the obsolete colony of New South 'Wales, as cleared of doubts by an act of the eighth year of her Ma- jesty, as amended and explained by another act of the same year as partly re aled and partly amended, augmented, and applied to all the 'Australian

auies, by an act of the fourteenth year of her Majesty. The real question for the House to deal with was, not what is theoreti-

cally best, but what would most satisfy the Colonies; for they could not here possess that intimate knowledge of the affairs of the Colonies which would enable them to judge what would be the form best suited to Colonial wants mu/ interests. Agreeing with Mr. Labonchere and Lord John Russell very fully in prineiRle, he difrered as to the mode ofcarrying out the principles of this bill. He proposed this manner and mode—Let it be enacted that the Governor of each colony should, in a certain period of time, convene a Constituent Assembly, elected by the people of the colony, and delegate to that Constituent Assembly the power to frame their own constitution, limiting that power afterwards to whatever extent may be thought proper. He sup- ported his strong objections to this bill by calling the attention of the House to certain new resolutions which Mr. Lowe, a distinguished Member of the Legislative Council of New South Wales, had given notice that he would more on the 14th of August last. It was true those resolutions were with- drawn : but what were the reasons given by Mr. Lowe and his friends for their withdrawal? The fact was, that intelligence having been received from Canada of the disorders there, the spirit of loyalty, which he wasproud to say at present exists in New South Wales induced the friends of Mr. Lowe to advise him not then to bring forward the matter, lest it should em-

barrass the Government. These resolutions were to the effect that no form of constitution for the colony of New South Wales, would be acceptable, per- manent, or beneficial, which did not embody the following requisites-1. An explicit recognition of the right of the colonists of New South Wales to have their Government administered by persons responsible to their representatives. 2, A Government removeable by the vote of the Colonial Legislature, and in-

. vested with all Colonial patronage. 3. Au elective Assembly, in which no person nominated by the Crown should have a seat. 4. The placing the sum of 81,0001., contained in the schedules A, B, and C appended to the act 5 and 6 Victoria, c. 76, together with expenses of the Customs department, at the disposal of such Assembly. 5. The repeal of the act 5 and 6 Victoria, c. 76, and the transfer to the local Government and Legislature of the ma- nagement of the waste lands of the colony, and the revenue derived from them. And if these concessions were made, Mr. Lowe proposed also to move, that "in consideration of them the colony . of New South Wales would be willing to pay for such military force as, in the judgment of the Colonial Assembly, might be necessary for its protection in time of peace." He was persuaded that Mr. Lowe's assertion would prove true with regard to all the Australian colonies, and that no Assembly would be acceptable to those co- lonies which should contain members nominated by the Crown. Of still greater importance was the question of the powers to be exercised by the Co- lonial Office.

Sir William had lately met with a good illustration of the vexatious power of. the Colonial Office, and would mention it to the House. For some tune the inhabitants of Sydney, a city of some fifty thousand souls, have been complaining of the practice of slaughtering beasts within the precincts of that city ; a practice which, in that warm climate, they consider to be an abominable nuisance, and injurious to their health. They were therefore anxious that the slaughter-houses should be removed; and on the 31st of May 1848, a Select Committee of the Legislative Council recommended that the slaughter-houses should be removed to a place called Globe Island, and that to pay for their removal certain lands upon which a cattle-market stood

• ithould be sold. Now it appears from the Sydney Herald of the 22d Sep- tember 1849, that up to that date the nuisance of the slaughter-houses had not been abated, and would not be abated for at least ayear more; because, according to the statement of the Colonial Secretary of New South Wales, the sanction of the Secretary of State for the Colonies must be obtained before the recommendation of the Committee could be attended to, and with the utmost despatch that sanction could scarcely be obtained in less than a year. Thus, for more than two years, a city of 50,000 inhabitants, in a semi-Tropical climate, will be exposed to the fevers and other disorders arising from the putrefation of animal matter, because it could not sell or buy a plot of land without the consent of functionaries at the antipodes. They might be assured that every noxious odour that arose from the slaughter- houses of Sydney was a germ of hatred to their Colonial Government. Now, was it necessary for the interest of the whole empire that the Colonial Office should retain powers of this description ? He maintained it was not ; and that as long as the Colonial Office bad an arbitrary power of interfering m the local affairs of the Colonies, there would be perpetual discord between the Colonies and the Colonial Office. The only mode of removing this cause of discord was by strictly limiting the power of, the Colonial Office to questions affecting Imperial interests.

Sir William bestowed a word on the grave errors and great confusion of ideas in the minds of those who dread that depriving the Colonial Office of its power would be followed by the separation of the Colonies from the empire. He maintained exactly the opposite doctrine; that in proportion as the power, the alienating tyranny, of the Colonial Office was curtailed, the union of our Colonies to ourselves would be strengthened; that as the colonists ceased to be the subjects of that Office they would become truer citizens of the empire itself.

In concluding, Sir William dropped the opinion that it would tend much to consolidate the empire if they could admit into the Imperial Parliament representatives from the Colonies. That was a subject well worthy the con- sideration of statesmen.

Mr. HAWES ventured to anticipate that this debate would give great satisfaction to the colonies.

He came forward with the perfectly ready admission, on the subject of the Legislative Chambers, that Ministers of the Crown, Governors of the Colonies, and many of the colonists themselves, are favourable to a double Chamber. But the answer to these objections as now made is to be found in the fact, that in order to make any alteration in the existing constitutions of the Colonies, it was necessary that the representatives of each colony ehould be first consulted on the subject. From all the Colonies, from the newspaper press of the Colonies, and from eommunications which he had received, and the deliberate opinion of one of the Colonies itself—South Australia—there had been a general opinion expressed in favour of the bill as it now stands ; and he believed it would be the height of imprudence to attempt to alter the principle upon which it was framed. Mr. Vememe Smrrii declared himself really at a loss to know what they were discussing.

The whole of this debate had originated upon a single clause of the bill ; and he certainly had never before heard of a debate upon a single clause of a bill upon which everybody was agreed. The Under-Secretary for the Colonies had stated, that the Governors of the Colonies, her Majesty's Ministers, and in- deed, everybody, was in favour of a double chamber. Then why not let them have a double Chamber? They were about, in spite of all these unanimous opinions in favour of a double Chamber, to rote them a single one. But what was the defence put forward by the Government for this conduct ? It was, that the present constitution had given satisfaction to the Colonies. How had that satisfaction been expressed? From three of them there had been no such

satisfaction ex , because such expression must come from the repre- sentatives, and they had no representatives. From New South Wales had the only expression of satisfaction been heard. And that satisfaction was founded upon the experience of seven years, being exactly the duration of one Parliament in this country. It was upon that experience that they were about to legislate for the whole of the Colonies, Some allusion had been made to the popular feeling expressed on the subject in the Sydney Morning Herald, a copy of which invaluable paper the honourable Member was fortu- nate enough to have in his possession; but that expression of feeling was made with respect to a totally difibrent measure. He set little value on the objection that alterations would cause delay. He regretted that the bill had not been brought forward in a more simple form, and more with the appear-

ance of a model hill.

Mr. Smith adverted to the fact that no Ministerial allusion had once been

made to the important question involved in the bill, of federation. He had heard no single valid argument in support of federation. There was no pa- rallel to be adduced in principle, no satisfactory experience to be appealed to ; it appeared to be adopted only because it seemed exactly what the Aus- tralians did not want. The principle of federation in the United States of America had been adopted for the purpose of dealing. diplomatically with foreign states, which it certainly was not intended to give to the Australian Colonies the power of doing. There were two important points still left un- touched—the military expenditure of the Colonies, and -the question of trans- portation of convicts. He regretted there had been no further debate upon them. When the Estimates came on, they would be told that that was not the time to discuss so large a question as the military expenditure of the co- lonies ; and the question of transportation had been but partly discussed by the honourable Member for Stafford when he took the House away from its consideration to other topics. - Mr. ADDERLEY addressed the House briefly. He showed by quotations from a book before the House that there has been an entire misconception on the part of the Government of some of the information they have re- ceived as to the preference they assume the colony of New South Wales to feel for a single Legislative Chamber ; he touched on Earl Grey's extra- ordinary fondness for making constitutions—displayed in New Zealand, where they would sooner have almost anything else than his gift; and stated his objections to the formation of a Congress of the Australian Colonies-7- one reason against it was that a single colony would furnish fifty per cent of the whole body. Mr. Mosreicrox MILNES accorded praise to Ministers for giving so large and liberal a permissive power to the Colonies.

He was anxious to express his gratification, that in the course of theeleltate

not a word had fallen which might induce the Colonies to believe that there remained in the mind of her Majesty's Ministers the least reservation -of those principles of interference with internal colonial affairs which hails() long bcen a subject of annoyance to the colonists. Upon the principle of self-government all were agreed. The other speakers were Mr. MANGLES, in cordial support of the bill; i Mr. HUME, in support of reading it a second time without delay, the sooner to amend in Committee some of those provisions which he was sure the Government did not intend to retain; Mr. WwaD, in favour'of representation of the Colonies in the Imperial Parliament; Mr. Smart-aim in favour of restored protection—amidst noises and cries of " Question !"

The bill was read a second time ; to be committed on Monday the 25th.


In moving the second reading of the Bankrupt and Insolvent Members Bill, Mr. MoerAex explained that it is the same which he introduced and withdrew last session. Mr. Wynn, who now rarely enters the House, had come down on that occasion and stated that the object of the bill could be obtained by a resolution of the House, without an act of Parlia- ment; thereupon Mr. Moffatt withdrew the bill : but scarcely had the session passed when Mr. Wynn wrote to him saying that he had been mistaken, and that an act of Parliament is necessary. Mr. Goumannw re- newed his former opposition, upon the same grounds ; and moved that the bill be read a second time that day six months. He was supported by Mr. Home, who had somewhat changed his opinion on reflection : he would abolish the power to plead Parliamentary privilege against debt, but thought that, with existing social arrangements, this bill might inflict cruel hardship. Mr. Paens observed, that agricultural Members, in the present state of matters, would require to have some protection against the stringent working of the bankruptcy laws. Sir Gemsee GREY, Mr. NAPIER, and Mr. Mumartea, supported the bill. On division, the second reading was negatived, by 73 to 34.


The second reading of the Small Tenements Rating Bill, moved by Mr. HALSEY, was opposed by Mr. PouLx-rr SCROPE, from a fear thatit will check the supply of the existing deficiency in cottage accommodation for the poor. Under the existing acts, vestries are empowered to transfer from the occupier to the owner the rates on property not rented higher than 201. or lower than 61. a year; the bill proposes to remove the minimum. Now the only effect of rating the owner will be that he will add the charge to the rent. Mr. Serope moved that the bill bo read a second time that day six months. Mr. 13.sises honestly believed that the bill would have no such effect, and gave it his support. Several Members supported the principle of the bill, but thought the clauses should be somewhat

altered in Committee. On division, the second reading was carried, by 182 to 2.


In moving the second reading of the Larceny Summary Jurisdiction Bill, Sir JOHN PARINGTON explained, that it proposes to extend the provisions of the Juvenile Offenders Aet, now applying to criminals fourteen years old and under, to criminals sixteen years old and under ; and also to ex- tend the power of summary jurisdiction to all cases of petty larceny under the old law,—that is, where the value of the article stolen is not more than one shilling. Mr. M‘Coution and Mr. NAPIER urged doubts ; the former thinking the experiment of the Juvenile Offenders Act had not been at- tended with the good results expected, the latter thinki e the law already too severe on the poorer class of criminals. The Afrrossiny-GENRRAL entirely concurred with the principle of the bill, and approved of its ob- ject. Mr. Moxeseos Mmxes thought it hardly summary enough : he was strongly in favour of administering punishment for a boy's offence at the nearest police-station. Mr. PACK; Mr. ROBERT PALMER., and Mr. W. MILES, all experienced Chairmen of Quarter-Sessions, hailed the measure as good for England. Mr. HENLEY approved, with doubts. The bill was read a second time.


In reply to a question by Mr. GRANTLEY BERKELEY, Mr. HAT= stated, that on complaints from the mining proprietors in the Forest of Dean, as to the demoralizing influence upon the people living around, produced by the opportunities they have of killing the deer, the Commissioners of the Woods and Forests have exercised the power which they possess as statutory wardens of that forest to order the destruction of the deer there- in. Mr. GRANTLEY BERKELEY acknowledged that under the circum- stances it would be a boon to the Forest to have the deer destroyed.


In reply to a question by Mr. DrveTr, prefaced by a statement of the alarm caused among intending emigrants by the account of what has hap- pened on board the bark Indian, Mr. HAWES stated that he has already called the attention of the Emigration Commissioners to the subject ; and they will be instructed to enforce the severest penalties which the law enables them to inflict, if the facts should be proved.


On the unopposed motion of Mr. Mins re, the House of Commons has agreed that an humble address be presented to her Majesty praying her to appoint a commission "to inquire into the circumstances relating to the documents presented to the Ceylon Committee on the 14th instant, with the name of Captain Watson attached to them, and to which his evidence, laid upon the table of the House, refers."


In reply to a question by Mr. Sitensits, as to whether the convention of armistice between Denmark and Prussia, which terminated in January last, has been renewed, Lord PA.LMERSTON stated, that a renewal for six months was proposed to the belligerents by this country; that, after objections from both sides, Denmark has lately assented to a renewal on certain conditions ; and that meanwhile, though the armistice has expired, hostilities cannot be renewed without six months' notice, which neither party seems inclined to give.