39ebattii atilt Praterttingil in parliament.

1. OPENING OF THE SESSION, 1836.

THE session of Parliament was opened on Thursday, by the King in person. His Majesty entered the House of Lords about two o'clock. The number of Peers and Peeresses and of the Foreign Ambassadors who were present was unusually large. The Commons, having been summoned, appeared at the bar; and the KING then delivered the following Speech.

"My Lords and Gentlemen—It is with great satisfaction that I again meet the Great Council of the Nation assembled in Parliament. I am ever anxious to avail myself of your advice and assistance ; and I rejoice that the present state of public affairs, both at home and abroad, is such as to permit you to proceed without delay or interruption to the calm examination of those mea- sures which will be submitted to your consideration.

" I continue to receive from my Allies, and, generally from all Foreign Powers, assurances of their unaltered desire to cultivate with me those friendly relations which it is equally my wish to maintain with them : and the intimate anion which happily subsists between this country and France is a pledge to Europe for the continuance of the general peace.

" Desirous on all occasions to use my friendly endeavours to remove causes of disagreement between other Powers, I have offered my mediation to com- pose the difference which has arisen between Freese and the United States. This offer has been accepted by the King of the French : the answer of the- President of the United States has not yet been received ; but I entertain a. confident hope that a misunderstauding between two nations so enlightened and. high-minded will be settled in a manner satisfactory to the feelings and con- sistent with the honour of both.

" I have still to lament the continuance of the civil contest in the Northern' Provinces of Spain. The measures which I have taken, and the engagements into which I have entered, sufficiently prove my deep anxiety for its termina- tion ; and the prudent and vigorous conduct of the present Government of Spain inspires me with the hope that the authority of the Queen will soon be established in every part of her dominions ; and that the Spanish nation, so long connected by friendship with Great Britain, will again enjoy the blessings of internal tranquillity and union. " I have given directions that there be laid before you the Treaty which I have concluded with the Queen of Spain, for the suppression of the Slave Trade. " Gentlemen of the House of Commons—I have directed the Estimates of the year to be prepared and laid before you without delay. They have been framed with the strictest regard to well-considered economy. The necessity of maintaining the maritime strength of the country, and of giving adequate pro- tection to the extended commerce of my subjects, has occasioned some increase in the estimates fur the Naval branch of the public service. " The state of the commerce and manufactures of the United Kingdom is highly satisfactory. I lament that any class of my subjects should still suffer distress ; and the difficulties which continue to be felt in important branches of agriculture may deserve your inquiry, with the view of ascertaining whether there are any measures which Parliament can advantageously adopt for the

alleviation of this pressure. • " My Lords and Gentlemen—T have not yet received the further report of the Commission appointed to consider the state of the several Dioceses of England and Wales. But I have reason to believe that their recommendations upon most of the important subjects submitted to them, are nearly prepared. They shall be laid before you without delay, and you will direct your early attention to the Ecclesiastical Establishment, with the intention of rendering it more efficient for the holy purposes for which it has been instituted. " Another subject which will naturally occupy you is the state of the Tithes in England and Wales ; and a measure will be submitted to you, having for its end the rendering this mode of providing fur the clergy more fixed and certain, and calculated to relieve it from that fluctuation and from those objections to which it has hitherto been subject.

" The principles of toleration. by which I have been invse;shly inmt render ins desirous of removing any cause of offence or trouble to the con- sciences of any portion of my subjects ; and I am therefore anxious that you should consider whether measures may nut be framed, which; whilst they remedy any grievances which affect those who dissent from the doctrine or dis- cipline of the Established Church, will also be of general advantage to the whole body of the community.

" The speedy and satisfactory administration of justice is the first and most sacred duty of a Sovereign ; and I earnestly recommend you to consider whether better provisions may not be made for this great purpose, in some of the departments of the Law, and more particularly in the Court of Chancery. " I trust that you will be able to effect a just settlement of the question of Tithes io Ireland, upon such principles as will tend, at length, to establish har- mony and peace in that country. " You are already in possession of the report of the Commission appointed to inquire into the state of the Municipal Corporations in Ireland ; and I enter- tain the hope that it will he in your power to apply to any defects and evils which may have been shown to exist in those institutions, a remedy founded upon the same principles as those of the Acts which have been already passed fur England and Scotland. " A further report of the Commission of Inquiry into the condition of the poorer classes of my subjects in Ireland will speedily be laid before you. Yon will approach this subject with the caution due to its importance and diffi- culty, and the experience of the salutary effect of the Act for the Amendment of the Laws relating to the Poor in England and Wales, may in many respects assist your deliberations. " I rely upon your prudence and wisdom, and upon your determination to maintain, as well as to amend, the laws and institutions of the country; and I commit these questions of domestic policy, to which I have deemed it my duty to direct your attention, into your bands, persuaded that you will so treat them, as to increase the happiness and prosperity, by promoting the religion and morality, of my people." [A curious circumstance must be mentioned in connexion with the reading of this Speech. The throne is placed in a bad position as regards light ; and the day being very dark as well as rainy, it was with the greatest difficulty that the King could decipher the document in his hand. He paused several times, and made mistakes in words; and was corrected by Lord Melbourne. He read, however, as far as the passage where the addition to the Navy Estimates is mentioned, before lights were brought by Mr. Leary, the Librarian; when, ad- dressing the assembled Peers and Commoners, his Majesty very com- posedly said- " My Lords and Gentlemen—I have been prevented, by not being able for want of light to read the Speech in the manner I ought, to command your at- tention ; but I trust that, by now reading it again, I shall be able to call suffi • ciently your Lordships' attention and that of the Gentlemen of the House of. Commons to its various topics."

He then recommenced the reading of the Speech ; and went through, it without hesitation, and in his usual distinct and audible tone of voice.]

The King left the House of Peers immediately after concluding his. Speech ; the Speaker and the Members of the House of Commons. retired ; and the ladies and strangers soon departed.

Lords Cottenham and Langdale were then introduced by Lords Glenelg and Denman : the oaths were administered to the new Peers, who subscribed the Parliamentary roll, and took their seats on the Barons' bench. The House then adjourned to five o'clock.

At that hour, Lord COTTENHAM read a copy of the King's Speech, as Lord Chancellor, from the Woolsack.

The Duke of LEINSTER moved the Address. His Grace adverted, in a conciliatory tone, to the principal topics of the Speech ; and par- ticularly expressed his satisfaction at the contemplated establishment of a system of Poor-laws for Ireland.

The Earl of BURLINGTON seconded the Address ; and went over the same ground, with little variation, as the Duke of Leinster. The Lord CHANCELLOR commenced reading the Address; but was interrupted by calls for the Duke of Wellington.

The Duke of WeLreoTota rose ; • and began by expressing satisfaction at the assurances in the King's Speech that there was no prospect of peace being disturbed. He regretted the decrease in the strength of the Navy, and approved of the proposed augmentation. He should have been very much pleased could he have conscientiously allowed the Address to pass without amendment ; but there was one j ortion of it with which he found it absolutely impossible to agree. His Majesty had said, in reference to Irish Corporation Reform,

" You are already in possession of the Report of the Commission appointed to inquire into the state of the Municipal Corporations in Ireland, and I enter-

tain the hope that it will be in your power to apply to any defects and evils which may have been shown to exist in those institutions, a remedy founded upon the same principles as those of the Acts which have already passed fur England and Scotland."

Now, the Duke contended, this was not the way, in which the King usually spoke of measures about to be submitted to Parliament—

All that the House could be called upon to do, was to say that it would take the subject into its constderation in accordar re with his Majesty's commands. He disapproved of this novelty—for a novelty he must call it. He thought that his Majesty's Ministers ought not to have given such advice to his Majesty ; and he for one most certainly could not answer his Majesty'sSpeech as was proposed by the noble lord opposite. He should therefore object to the following passage in the Address :—" Being in possession of the Report of the Commission of Inquiry appointed to inquire into the Municipal Corporations in Ireland, we partake of the hope entertained by your Majesty, that it wilt be in our power to apply to any defects and evils which may have been shown to exist in those in- stitutions, a remedy founded upon the same principles as those of the Acts which have been already passed for England and Scotland."

Their Lordships ought not to be called upon to say that they partake of a hope that the principle of the English and Scotch Municipal Acts shall be the foundation of an Act for Ireland ; and therefore he would propose an amendment to this portion of the Address. He would move that the paragraph should be altered so as to read as follows- " Being in possession of the Report of the Commission appointed to inquire into the state of the Municipal Corporations in Ireland, we will proceed, without delay, to the consideration of any defects and evils which may have been shown to exist in those institutions, for the purpose of applying such remedies as may obviate just causes of complaint, and insure the impartial administration of justice.

The Amendment having been read; Lord Mereouesfe expressed his reeret that it should have been moved : oeneelelly sakes. it appeared that the difference between the Duke and Ministers was, as pointed out by the Duke, of such little comparative importance, when viewed in connexion with the other topics of the Speech- " With respect (continued Lord Melbourne) to the objection of the noble Duke to that paragraph in the Speech which relates to the Municipal Corr). rations of Ireland, the noble Duke says that it is a novelty. I do not pretend to be so much a master of what has been said on all such occasions as to be able to produce any precedents ; but I very much doubt whether it has not been usual in the Speech from the Throne at various times, and in relation to various topics, to suggest to Parliament the principles on which it should pro- ceed. The noble Duke says it is not usual ; but what reason is there why it is not usual ? What is the reason why such a course should not be taken ? Is the objection founded merely on the fact of the want of a precedent ? Is that the only reason why his Majesty, or the advisers of his Majesty, are to be restricted to the limits which have been observed before ? I would contend that it is not sufficient to say this is not usual, but it is incumbent on those who would govern us by a precedent to show that it has some foundation in public utility. I assure the noble Duke, that the paragraph in question was ex- tremely well considered, and the expression founded upon the same principles as those of the Acts which have been already passed for England and Scotland,' was adopted to obviate objections in the minds of noble lords. We were always ready to admit, that if there are any peculiar circumstances in Ireland—if there is any thing peculiar in the character of the popula- tion, or in the nature of the country, or in the Corporations themselves, rendering the provisions of the Acts passed for England and Scotland inapplicable to Ireland—we were always ready to admit there might exist a ground for difference: therefore we did not say the provisions,' but the principles,' meaning the principles,' so far as they are suitable to the peculiar condition and circumstances of the Irish people. I say, then, my lords, that there is, in fact, no material difference between the words in the original Address and the words proposed by the noble Duke. The one no more binds your Lordships to apply the provisions of the Acts for England and Scotland to Ireland than the other ; and that being so, I think it will be more befitting this House, and more respectful to his Majesty, to adhere to the words as moved, and thus return an answer according to form and custom, in as nearly as possible those expressions which his Majesty has been himself advised to use from the Throne. I trust that the noble Duke, for the sake of that unanimity which he thinks desirable, will not on this occasion insist on the amendment which he has thought proper to move."

Lord WINCHILSEA would vote for the Amendment ; to which his only objection was, that it did not express hostility to the policy, foreign and domestic, of the present Government— They were principles at direct variance with those on which the Government of this great country ought to be conducted, and had greatly contributed to the degradation of the national character. The principles on which our domestic policy had been conducted brought the civil and religious institutions of the country to the very verge of destruction. This ceased to be a matter of sur- prise, when they reflected that the speech from the Throne did not contain the remotest allusion to certain political events which had occurred since last ses- sion—events with which certain individuals were mixed up, to whom he would presently more particularly allude—individuals whose conduct had absorbed the attention of a reflecting mind : he alluded to that daring agitation, which, during the recess, had been carried on in different parts of the country. That agitation not only related to the annihilation of that branch of the Legislatute, but contemplated the entire subversion of the Monarchy itself. In any other but these degenerate days of ours, the individuals to whom he referred would have met with marked punishment for the treasonable and seditious courses they pursued.

Lord WIIARNCLIFFE spoke briefly in support of the Amendment. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE would not make any opposition to the alteration proposed by the Duke of WELLINGTON ; but he protested against any inference being drawn therefrom, that he or his colleagues intended to admit that the principles of the English and Scotch Muni- cipal Bills were not applicable to Ireland— On the contrary, he begged to declare that they reserved to themselves most fully and distinctly, the privilege of proposing to their Lordships a bill founded on what they should consider to be the same principles; because it was only by

bill founded on those principles that they could hope to give satisfaction to the People of Ireland. Unless they could give satisfaction to Ireland by the

bill they introduced, founded on the principles to which he had adverted, it would be their duty not to bring forward any such measure, but to leave it tw other hands to propose the measure, and carry it through this House. He en- tered then his protest ; and that being understood, he believed he might say for his noble friend near him, that which he said for himself,—which was, that be was unwilling to take up the time of their Lordships with any protracted dis- cussion of this narrow point.

The Duke of WELLINGTON exprefsed his satisfaction that the Amendment had been accepted by Ministers ; and then asked Lord Melbourne what course he intended to pursue in bringing forward the measures mentioned in the King's Speech?

Lord MELBOURNE replied-

" I cannot now name the precise day, but I beg to assure the noble Duke that it is my intention to bring forward in this House, and as speedily as possible, some of the most important of the measures which have been recommended try his Majesty's Speech."

The Address, as amended, was agreed to ; and the House adjourned.

The Speaker took the Chair of the House of Common. a little before four o'clock ; the House having adjourned to that time imme- diately after the delivery of the Royal Speech. There was a large at- tendance of Members, though the House was by no means full. Lord Stanley took his seat next to Sir Robert Peel, on the front Opposition bench. Sir James Graham sat on the bench behind them. Mr. Hume, Mr. Grote, Mr. Ward, and other distinguished Members of the Independent party, were stationed on the upper Ministerial benches ; Mr. O'Connell and a party of the Irish Members on the lower seats on the same side of the -House. Mr. Walter, it seems. gave the Liberals once more the benefit of his person. After several new Members had been sworn, and some notices of motions had been given, the Speaker read a copy of the Royal Speeds.

Sir Jous WROTTESLEV then rose to move the Address. He spoke at considerable length ; adverting, according to custom, to the subjects pointed out in the Speech, and expressing his satisfaction at theForeign and Domestic policy of the Government.

Mr. JOHN PARKER seconded the Address. He was especially grati- fied tit the evidence afforded in the King's Speech that the Marta Act was not to be sterile of improvement, or unproductive of goOd illVkISUI es. He dwelt with satisfaction OD the Foreign policy of Ministers, and more particularly on the part they had taken with respect to Spanish affairs. The projected Municipal Reform, the introduction of Poor-laws into Ireland, and the Reform of the Chancery system, would be of the greatest benefit, and had become highly necessary. He referred to the beneficial operation of the English Poor-law, and read several statements and returns in proof of the prosperity of commerce and manufactures. There was a hope of extended trade with foreign countries. The German league was against us ; but the truth was, that we had our Corn-laws and our Timber-duties to thank for that- " There is one curious thing relative to the state of trade—viz. that formedy machinery was too much for the raw material, whereas now the raw material cannot keep pace with our machinery. This is the case in woollens, in silk, and even in cotton. Sismondi was afraid of machinery, but events have proved without cause; and for the truth of this statement in respect to existing trade, of course not asking them to adopt my inferences, I appeal to the honourable baronet the Member for Leeds, and to my friends the Members for Halifax awl Bradford. And I wish I could appeal alas to one, I mean the late Lord Milton, who, though unconnected with Yorkshire by electoral ties, had still, from his vast possessions, and the long residence of his family in that district, so large a stake in its welfare, that I should have appealed to him for its truth. But the tomb has deprived this House of one who promised to be one of its future orna- ments; and if I have detained the House a moment in recalling their attention to one so young, so firm, and so attractive in his character, I am sure I shall be forgiven. • Multis ille bonis ticbilis occidit /Corn flebiliur quam tibi, Virgili.'

Sir, I beg pardon of the House for having so long occupied their time ; longer, perhaps, than my situation justifies, but not longer than the importance of the many subjects on which I had to touch may palliate. For the rest I will only say, that it is my matured conviction that the peace and prosperity we now enjoy depends upon a perseverance in a Liberal course of Constitutional Reform. The unsettled questions of centuries require this. The genius of the age, se oft evinced, demands it at our hands. Fur the present, we have the prospect of such Liberal measures, because we have a Liberal Administration."

The SPEAKER read the Address ; and then Sir ROBERT PEEL rose. He commenced by descanting at consider- able length on our foreign relations, and for the most part in a sort of echo of the Speech. He was at variance, however, with the Govern- ment in regard to Spain- " With the lamentation about the continuance of the civil contest in Spain I do not quarrel, for I myself lament it ; but I widely and honestly dissent from and lament the policy that his Majesty's Government has pursued with regard to that country. I do not like the course that has been adopted under the sanction of this Government, which in one moment professes neutrality and in the next violates it. British subjects should not be allowed, nay, almost encouraged, openly to inlist for the purpose of waging war against a portion of the Spanish nation with which the British nation is at peace, and in professed friendship. This is not the way to conciliate animosities, to secure the affec- tions of that people, or repress those barbarous outrages of which we have read of late, and at which nature shudders. Is this the way to secure for us the character of neutrality, of which there has been such boasting; or securing the affections of the people, some of whom our own countrymen harass and slay? I confess, Sir, I did not expect the sort of reference made to. Spain which the Ministers suggested to his Majesty to make. The Speech talks of the prudent and vigorous conduct of the Queen. This is an infelicitous allusion, and

opposed to the very principle which the members of the present Government so boldly contended for some few years ago. When allusion was made by me when I had the honour of holding a place in his Majesty's Councils to a similar

course pursued by the King of the Netherlands under similar circumstances, and when that allusion was supposed to convey some approbation of his line of conduct, how was I met by the honourable gentlemen opposite? Was the allusion approved of? Far from it. I was met with taunts of partiality and a violation of the principles of non-intervention : I was asked what right had I, as Minister of the Crown, to express any opinion, favourable or unfavourable, to the contending parties ? We were asked, had we not enough of domestic con- cerns to mind, without embarking in the contentions of other States ? We were told to look to Ireland, and attempt to tranquillize that country before we should venture to interfere even by approval with the political differences of others. We were then forewarned that the precedent would be afterwards seed against us. Now, Sir, let me ask the honourable gentlemen opposite, is the state of Ireland now so far advanced under their tutelage in the progress

of prosperity, allegiance, and tranquillity, that they can neglect it, and, in utter asd needless violation of their own fostered principle of non-interference, inter- saddle in the civil broils of Spain, by allowing an army to be raised for one of the belligerent parties within the view of the seat of government ? But did we

then interfere—did we allow recruits to be raised—did we suffer reinforcements iJ anus, or provisions, or any of the other resources of war to be publicly imported from our shores? Far from it. We who were taunted with inter- berme did not interfere, and we were then falsely accused by men who now falsaY their own principles."

He hoped that no reflection was intended to be conveyed on his Administration by the passage in the Speech which recommended an inerease in the Navy. His Estimates had been formed on the lowest stale, and bad met with the general approbation of the House. [ Sir John llobhouse here intimated that no reflection was intended.] He

was glad to believe that he was right, and that no reproof was sought to be e mveyed. He would then turn to the subject of domestic policy. And first with regard to the Chancery arrangements—.

" We are told that material changes, which are called better provisions,' are 30 be effected in the departments of Law, especially in the Court of Chancery.

To the manner in which these changes are recommended I do not object. It implies no pledge, but leaves everyone at liberty to act on his own views of the nature and extent of the proposed Reform. Without, therefore, pledging myself to any future line of conduct, I will say, that if there be any proposition made to effect so vital and practical an alteration in the office of the Lord Chancellor of England, as that of separating the civil from the judicial functions of that high dignitary, I shall look on it with great caution, if not distrust. It will re-

gain touch to convince me of the expediency of dissevering these combined functions, held together so usefully and so long. I thank the honourable gentle- mat (Mr. Parker) for admitting the total failure of the previous scheme of amendment, the appointment of Lords Commissioners of the Great Seal. (Loud cheers and laughter from the Opposition benches.) It was in sail truth a signal and a mischievous failure. It led to an enormous and ruinously-expensive in- crease of arrears of business, swelling with unprecedented rapidity from 200 to 800 cases in a few months. Well, then, as to the salary. As these Commis- sioners had accumulated a large arrear of business, it should be expected that they diminished the expenses of their own salary. But has the country derived oven this benefit from this Chancery Reform of his Majesty's Ministers ? So far 4snsa the;” expenae of salary, it kept pace with the increase of thearrears of cases; for it was an additional burden on the country, in these re.• trenching times, to the anieimt of 10,0001. a year. It has been admitted, even by the honourable gentleman opposite, that the Commissioners have done no good—it is needless to say that they have done evil. I asked last year, was it likely that these Commissioners would increase the arrears of business? I need not ask the question now, for it is admitted. The only good they have done was for themselves, in dividing among them the salary of the Lord Chancellor. I stated, Sir, before, and I state it now, that I was anxious to see the high and ancient office of the Lord Chancellor maintained on its old footing, and see a man of high acquirements, who possessed the confidence of the Bar, appointed to that most importar t duty. It is not for me to inquire why the confidence of the King has not been continued to Lord Brougham. (Cheers and loud laughter from the Opposition.) The appointment of the Commissioners con- tinued till the appearance of a pamphlet by Sir Edward Sugilen. What an ex- traordinary effect must this pamphlet have had when it abolished three great of. ices, aud, by the abolition, created three Peerages." ( Great laughter.) He objected to the imperfect and desultory discussion of important sub'ects on the first night of the session, and therefore would pass over many passages in the Frac% which provoked remark ; but there was one to which he felt it abs,tuiely necessary to advert more particu- larly. He feared that it was intended, unconstitutionally, furtively, and unfairly, to filch from him and those who acted with hint a consent to apply to Ireland the same principles of Municipal Reform which bad been carried into operation in England and Scotland. Ile referred to the passage in the Address respecting Irish Corporation Reform. He would not contract the obligation to apply to Ireland the principles of the English and Scotch Bills— "t If I am called on to give a pledge, I shall not give it without considering the merits and tendency of the question ; I shall not manacle myself without seeing what I mean to do. To this proposition of reform I object on various grounds, which I may state hereafter. It is not fair to call on me to bind myself to the support of a question so important on the notice of an hour 'r two. There could be no good object in this speedy exaction of a pledge. The only object can be to entrap me into a premature and ill- considered adoption of a measure which on examination I may see ample reason to resist ; and if I do nut protest against this course now, 1 may hereafter be told that I did not object before, and that my opposition is therefore unreason- able, if not factious. The Government have a knowledge of the precise plea- sure about to be introduced. We have none ; and is it just or honourable to call on us to pledge ourselves to the principles of measures of which we are igoorant? This line of conduct is inconsistent with the Parliamentary pro- ceedings adopted for the last twenty years, and opens a new ova in Ministerial tactics. It is at variance with that honourable mutual feeling that has existed between the Government and the Opposition, that it was inexpedient if not unjust to caii on the Opposition party to enter into a premature pledge. This sale has been especially acted on in framing the Speech and moving the Address, and every topic avoided that could drive the Opposition to move an amendment, although important subjects were introduced, and slim p and protracted collision between parties was anticipated. The Speech and the Address have, however, in the present case, been so studiously drawn up as to entrap. This was nut 30 in former Addresses. So far was I from courting an opportunity of moving or advising the motion of an amendment to the Address, that I strongly re- commended none to be moved, unless an extreme necessity for it arose. The conduct of Government on this occasion is, I repeat, inconsistent with the con- duct pursued by former Governments for the last twenty years, even on great accasums. When a recommendation was given front the 'Throne to take into consideration the Catholic claims, the Address was so framed as to supersede the necessity on the part of those who dissented from that recommendation to move an amendment. When the Reform Bill was introduced, though the Government was then strong, and able to carry a resolution pledging the House to the principles of the measure by a large majority, yet they did not press it. X have, then, the experience of past Addresses for twenty years to warrant use in resisting the present insidious Address."

It was no argument against him that a measure for reforming the r..orpnnttions of Ireland had passed the House of Commons last ses- sion, for he refused to support a bill founded on a Report which he had Dever read. Why did not Ministers exercise the same forbearance on this point as they had on the Church question ? Where was their Appropriation principle ? Where was the mention of it ? But though be refused to give any pledge, was he about to resist the reform of like Irish Corporations ? " Certainly not ; but I must examine the question in its details. I shall not be led away by plausible analogies. It is not necessary for me to attempt to vindicate self-election or exclusion of certain parties from offices ; but, when I come to consider the question, I will look at the whole state of Ireland. I will ask whether, under pretence of removing one exclusion, lam not confirm- ing another. ( Great cheering.) I shall look to whom power will be given. (Increased cheering.) I shall look to what object the power to be given is to be applied ; and if I conscientiously believe it will conduce to strengthen the connexion between the two countries, and will confirm those ancient settled institutions constituting the Government which my. honourable friend (Sir John Wrottesley) has said he is determined to maintain, then I will consent to give it my support ; but I will not be deceived by principles and analogies. I will not allow the sameprinciple of Municipal Reform to be applied in Ireland as it England, unless I feel certain that it will be for tile good of that country. I am asked to espouse a principle. What is a principle? Can any thing be more difficult of definition than a principle ? The destruction of self-election may be a principle, and the establishment of an elective power may be another principle. By your definition or conception of what may constitute a pr in- ciple, you may get me to pledge myself to a particular line of action, which my reason and conscience may afterwards reject. In England the rate-payers, in Scotland the ten-pound householders, are the electors of Municipal corpo.. rations. To which of these principles will you adapt the Irish Municipal Reform Bill ? If you say that the Irish ten-pound householders should have a vote, how then am I to be bound by the general principle as applied in Eng- laud ? I repeat, I shall look to things, not to names. It is not necessary to defend abuses, nor would I countenance them. Self election, exclusion from a share in the administration of justice, misappropriation of funds, may be abuses. But then, I will look at the whole state of things in that country, not at particular parts. I will consider also, whether, destroying

opposing and destroyin

one species of exclusion, I may not em;firm another and a worse exclusion—to whom power is to be given, and for what object ? ( Cheers.) I shall there- fore move an amendment, in conformity with every other paragraph, and with the usages and principles of Parliament ; and that those words which pledge me to adopt the same principles to Ireland as have already been applied to England shall be left out, and substituted by the following—' To assure his Majesty, that, being in possession of the Report of the Commissioners, we will proceed, without the least delay, to the consideration of any defects in the Municipal institutions of Ireland, for the purpose of applying .such remedies as will obviate just grounds of complaint, and insure the impartial administration of justice.' " Lord Joint RUSSELL said, that he should reply to some of Sir Rm. bert Peel's observations in the order in which they were delivered. He thought Sir Robert was unfortunate in his criticism on that part of the Speech which referred to Spanish affairs— Whether intervention or non-intervention were the best principle, was not for him now to discuss in respect to our relations with Spain; for here his Majesty was already bound by a treaty with other foreign powers, which lie could not possibly depart from. With respect, therefore, to our interference, that was regulated by a treaty which he believed it was a matter of boast on the part of the Government of which Sir Robert Peel was at the bead—it was certainly a subject for just commendation of the conduct of the Duke of Wel- lington—that whilst that noble Duke held the seals of office as Secretary for Foreign Affairs, be carried into effect the stipulation of the treaty to which he had alluded, and studiously prevented a levy of troops being made in this country for the aid of Don Carlos. Whatever blame, therefore (if any), at- tached to the present Government for acting on the stipulations of that tieaty, should, in all fairness, be also visited upon the Government by which they had been preceded. With regard to the measures in contemplation for improving the Court of Chancery, he would only say, that at the proper time, the Solicitor-General would be prepared to shoo- that the arrears had not accumulated in that Court to any considerable extent in consequence of the Great Seal being placed in commission— He believed that it might be shown, from a proper comparison between the arrears when the Seal was put in commission and the present arrears, that the commission was not the cause of any increase that had taken place: but this he would at once say, that the Government having had it in contemplation, from the moment of its construction, to provide for a different administration of jus- tice from that which had existed up to that period in the Court in question, considered it wise and expedient to take the course which had frequently been taken before, of putting the Great Seal in commission, and trusting it to those who not only had great experience and reputation to sustain their authority in those Courts in which they presided, but who likewise agreed in the opinion that the time was come for reform in those Courts to take place. Ile would only further observe, that when the question of maleadministration in the Court in question was brought before Parliament last year, he stated, as the decided opinion of Government, that provision for an additional permanent Judge should be made in the Court of Chancery, but that as to the total separation of the judicial and political functions of the Lord Chancellor, that was a question of the greatest possible importance, and one which would require the most mature consideration. He would say no more at present on that subject, than just to remark, that when the plan of reform was brought forward, he trusted it would meet with the approval of the House, not only by reason of the authority of those from whom it emanated, but also from the importance— he had almost said the paramount importance—which itwas to the country to have a measure of such a nature carried into effect.

He would now advert to the question on which Sir Robert had not contented himself with criticism merely, but on which lie bad moved an amendment. He had supposed that sufficient caution had been used in framing this part of the Address. The House was only called upon to express a hope that the principles of the English and Scotch Bills might be applied to the Irish Bill- " ' Oh ! but,' exclaims the right honourable baronet, ' it is wrong of the King's Ministers to entertain any such hope : they should, on the contrary, declare that those principles which have been established in England and Scot- land—the principles of vigilant popular control and responsibility—that these a principles, which are in accordance (I must admit) with the principles of the British Cunstitutian, and with all our ancient laws, are totally inapplicable to the laws by which Ireland is to be governed, and that no Minister should en- tertain the hope or consent to partake in the hope of seeing those principles carried into operation.' Sir, instead of embodying these sentiments in the Ad- dress to the 'I hrone, we have thought it the wisest course to say that we do partake in the hope of seeing these principles carried into effect in Ireland. There is nothing to prevent us from coming to that as a sound conclusion, though the words we entertain tha hope that it may be in our power' arc suf- ficiently cautious in excluding any unqualified pledge upon the subject. And what are these principles,—for we of course make no allusion whatever-to de- tails? The right honourable baronet, in his speech, has im truth acceded to the correctness of the views which we have expressed on this question; for he has told you that the regulations with respect to elections under the Municipal Acts vary in England and Scotland; for that, in the former, rate-payees test- dent for a period of three years are entitled to vote for burgesses, whilst in the latter the qualification to vote is confined to la householders; that in England the Council recommend certain Magistrates for the approval of his Majesty, and that, on the other hand, in Scotland the choice of gentlemen who for a certain period perform the functions of Magistrates is confined to the electors, without requiring the sanction of his Majesty. These, I agree with the right honourable baronet, are questions of detail ; and when it is said in the King's Speech that the principles which are applied to England and Scot- land should be also carried into operation with respect to Ireland. it is quite clear that you are not to be bound down to follow these details I have men- tioned, by any forced or implied acquiescence in an opinion that precisely the same pi° • vieions should be applied to Ireland as those embraced in the two mea- sures of Municipal Reform already passed ; but it is equally clear that you are asked to give your opinion as to whether the general principles of those Acts— namely, popular election and control, as opposed to self-election and abuse— should be made applicable to Ireland as well as to England. For the adoption of there general principles only you are required to express a hope. Sir, I say, that if the right honourable baronet do not partake of that hope which alone the King's Speech expresses—if he or other Members be not actuated by that hope7thev may consider it their duty fairly to express their dissent to any such doctrine • -hut I can say for myself and my colleagues about me, that we are persuaded that these same principles may be applied to the municipal govern- ment of the towns of Ireland. (Loud and long-continued cheering.) We do not merely, Sir, entertain the hope, but we entertain the conviction of the

j

truth and justness of the assertion ; ;hat the time is come when the differences of meeil and sect in that country should not constitute an impassable barrier against the admission of a large and influential class of his Majesty's subjects to the enjeyment Of the benefits which must result from the estiblishment of a municipal system of government in that country, founded on the fundamental principles of the British Constitution." ( Vehement chef!, ing.) Lord John quoted a passage from the reply of fir Robert Peel So an address from the Common Council of London, while the Catholic Relief Bill was in progress ; which proved, that at that time Sir Ro- bert himself looked forward to such an alteration of the Corporate system of Ireland as would remove all distinctions and put all sects on an equal footing; without which, said Sir Robert, on that occasion, the Catholic Bill would be "a dead letter." But Lord John asked, what is the state of things in Ireland now?- " Have these distinctions of party and religion been utterly effaced in the management of the local government of the towns throughout Ireland? Or is it not a fact which is undeniable, that the great mass of the people have been carefully and totally excluded from all control over the corporate bodies ? Well then, 1 ask, do we not so far break down those barriers of monopoly and ex- clusion which exist in Ireland, by resolving that popular election should carry into the Cominon Council of the several towns, all the men of wealth, respect- ability, and character, that dwell in them, be their creed or party what it may ? I do think, I acknowledge' that it would grievously disappoint that hope if the Amendment of the right honourable baronet were carried. I do think, that if instead of his Majesty's Speech (which, after all, be it recollected, pledges you to no inure than acting on the same principles to Ireland that you have done to England and Scotland), you omit the words so often alluded to to-night, and say th it you will inertly endeavour to amend what you should at once announce your willingness thoroughly to reform, you will bring on yourselves a suspicion that you are not about to treat Ireland with the same justice with which you have treated England and Scotland ; and that we hesitated to perform our parts twirl* Ireland, through apprehension of sonic danger which has not been very accurately defined, but which will he interpreted in Ireland to mean the danger cf destroying monopoly and correcting abuse. ( Vehement cheering.) Sir, I say, then, at once, that having so acted with regard to England, having so acted with regard to Scotland, and the words of the Address implyino* nothing more than the adaption of the same general principles to Ireland. I, for one, cannot consent to the proposed Amendment ; particularly when I remember, that even against the Address of the right honourable baronet when he was [Minister of the Crown, this House proposed to go further than what he then proposed, and actually expressed a hope (which was then confirmed by a vote), to see 'the Corporations reformed on principles of vigilant popular control.' We do not now repeat these words, but when we use others which imply the same sen- timent as that which was formerly sanctioned and approveci of by a majority of this House, I am bound to declare that in wisdom, in justice, and in consis- tency, you ought to adopt the words of this Address."

Lord STANLEY was most anxious that there should be no disunion on this question. He scarcely thought that Lord John Russell would persevere in resisting the Amendment, after he heard that his colleagues in "another place" had without hesitation adopted it. Lord Stanley repeated some of the arguments used by Sir Robert Peel, and then continued-

" But do we propose, because we prefer the language of the Amendment to that of the Address, and which, indeed, if it be pressed to a division, I shall feel myself bound to prefer—(Ironical cheers from the Ministerial side)— do we therefore manifest a desire to maintain the abuses of Corporations in Ireland?

Lord JOHN RUSSELL (across the table)—" Yes, you do." (Cheers.) Lord STANLEY—" We do? We do? I thought from the tenour of my noble friend's speech that he either did not hear or did not properly understand the terms of the Amendment ; and that supposition is confirmed when I hear him now assert that by supporting the Amendment we are adhering to the abuses in Irish Corporations. What are the words of the Amendment?? We will proceed without delay to the consideration of the evils which are proved to exist in those institutions.' Why?—for the purpose of clinging to them ? for the purpose of defending them ? with the view of interposing between them and all retierni ? No • but for the purpose of 'applying such remedies as may obviate all just grounds of complaint, and insure the impartial administration of justice.' (Loud cheers.) I cannot conceive by what strange perversion of ideas my noble friend should have come to the conclusion that the adoption of the Amendment pledged those who supported it to an approval of the abuses in the Corporations of Ireland. I for one am most anxious to apply the most summary remedy to those abuses, and in some instances I should be inclined to adopt the radical remedy of total extinction ; for I am persuaded, that greater abuses exist in many of the towns in Ireland, as to the administration of funds and the exclusive system of management, than prevailed in this country."

There was another point in the Speech to which he must also refer. An assurance was given, in which he could not concur-

" It is this, that we shall come to a just, final, and satisfactory settlement of the Tithe question.' Would to God that I could entertain so confident a hope ! But I must fairly say, that I cannot entertain such a hope, as long as you adhere to the assertion of the abstract principle of Appropriation (a prin- ciple to which, however, you must now be considered pledged): but as long, I epeat, as you do keep that question alive, to a just, speedy' and, least of all final, settlement of the Tithe question, not only do I not look with a confident hope, but io my conscience I believe such a consummation to be altogether im- possible." (Loud cheers from the Opposition.) Lord HOWICK remarked on the palpable inconsistency of Lord Stanley, who avowed his willingness to rout-up the hist, Corporation's, and yet refused to say that he entertained a tope that the principles of the Municipal Bills for England and Scotland might be appliedto Ire- land. He said that Lord Stanley well knew that there were reasons (which his respect for the other House wouldprevent him from en• x- ing into) why a proposition accepted in that House should be rejecia in this. He adverted to the concluding observations of Sir Robert Peel regarding the increase of power a Municipal Reform Act might give to Mr. O'Connell—

Sir

Robert Peel had not followed up the observations to which lie' alluded with any personal insinuations and taunts against the honour- able and learned Member for Dublin. He had too much tact, he knew too well the taste and feeling of the House on such subjects, to follow up kis observations with any of those vulgar and petty attacks on the honourable awl learned Member for Dublin in which anonymous scribbler; in newspapers were prone to indubre. He knew better. But I ord Ilowick could very easily to strue the insinaation, limited as it was in expression. He knew very well what was implied in the right honourable baronet's remark. He meant to allude to the power possessed by the honourable and lean :d Member for Dublin in Ire- land. Did he deny that the honourable and learned gentleman did actually possess great power in Ireland ? He was not there to apologize for the Ma21111EC in which that honourable and learned gentleman sometimes exercised that power. On the contrary, he had frequently reprobate d such an exercise. it could not he supposed that he entertained towards that honourable and learned gentleman any personal regard : the manner in which that honourable and learned gentleman had acted, and the language he had used towards one of his nearest and dearest ce -inexions, could never be forgotten, :ea I forbade the pestle.. biiity of the existence of any personal regard on his part towards the in.uosa-- able and learned Member for Dublin. But was that any reason to induce him to deny that the honourable and learned gentleman possessed great power in Ireland? And was the possession of that power by tl.e horweirable and learned gentleman to induce him to refuse to give to t. e People of Ireland measures founded on the principles of liberty? ( Cheering.) And who and what was it that had given the ho murable and learned Member for Dublin flat power which he possessed? Had that power being given by those who sat upon his, or by those who sat upon the other vide of the House . Was not the acquisition of that power mainly attribute' le. to the right honourable baronet himself and his friends, who, year after year, refused, with determined tyranny, those righter which they subsequently yielded with abject timidity ? ("Hear, hear, hear! ") Was it his noble friend who had given the honourable and learned Member for Dublin his power, or was it the right honourable baronet, oho, in the very Act of general emancipa ion, introduced a clause, directed against the hsQeorabia and learned gentleman personally, and therefore bound the People of Ireland to him, and induced them to consider him as a martyr to their cause ; and by this vain and impotent stack upon an individual, made the Imperial Legislature disgrace itself ? Was that the act of his Majesty's present Ministers? But let the power which the honourable and learned gentleman now possessed, and which the right honourable baronet so much dreaded, have been conferred by whom it might, that power ought not to be assigned as a reason fin. refusing to grant to the People of Ireland whatever justice and policy le h wass bad symptom of the political condition of any country, when „ay individual was able to obtain so extensive a power over the minds of the people:as that pesseseed at present over the minds of the People of [rebind by the honourable and learned Member for Du din. But the false condition in which Ireland stood in that respect was ocrasi meth by the course which had been pursued by the right honourable baronet and his friends. The present unfortunate state of l.leerti., lie mind in Irelend he gar with the system of governing haled .m a r!epeielent,, whom we were at liberty to oppress at our pleasure. The only mode, of curing the evil, was by doing full, fair, and impartial juice, and by trusting to time and: reason Or the removal of those prejudices which at present were so deeply-rooted. Nothing could be woise, nothing could be more injurious, than to fall beck (which, if the IL ore adopted the Amend- ment proposed by the right honourable Leto :let, they would) on the system which had for so many years been pursued. lie called upon the Ilouse, there- fore, to adhere to the original Address.

Lord DUD! EY STUART expressed his regret that ttere was nothing in the Speecn on the subject of Russian aggression and in behalf of Poland. He had intended to have moved on amendment to this defect ; but being unwilling to create disunion in the Liberrl ranks, would not do so. He, however, read a motion on the subject of Rus- sian policy, which he intended to bring forward on the 16th of February.

Lord PALMERSTON defended the Foreign policy of England; and maintained that there was no occasion to introduce the subjects alluded to by Lord Dudley Stuart into the Speech ; as in 1833 his Majesty had declared his determination to protect the independence of Turk and nothing had since occurred to render a reiteration of that declara- tion necessary. With respect to Poland also, th is country Wouldslaida by her engagements. He thus replied to Sir itobert Peel's observa- tions respecting that part of the Speech which praised the- Queen of Spain's policy— The right honourable baronet alluded to the Speech delivered from Use Throne in 1830, in which the Government of that day mentioned with praise the enlightened policy of the King of the Netherlands. Now, he maintained there could not be any two things more entirely dissii ailar than the Speech of 1830 and the Speech now under discussion. The Government of 1830 praised as enlightened policy a policy which led to the rooted discontent of the nation to which it was applied, and brought about the separation of Belgium from Holland. The Government of the present day praised the prudent and v*o- rous 1,olicy of the Queen of Spain, which had reunited the greater part of the Spanish nation in allegiance to. the Sovereign ; which had brought back iuto concert with the Government all those separate Juntas which sonic. months ago divided the nation, and were prepared to resist the authority of the Queen; which had therefore produced a union of three-fourths of the kingdom, and which he trusted, at no very distant period, would establish the authority of the Queen in every part of her dominions. But what did the Government of 1830? They praised the enlightened conduct of the King of the Netherlaorls: they praised it with reference to a revolution which had taken place, and with the words still ringing in their ears, they entered into a course of proceeding, the very first object of which was to effect a division of the kingdom of the Prince whose conduct they had praised. That was the way in which they they showed their sense of the enlightened policy of the King of the Netherlands. The present Government, on the contrary, praising, as they did, the prudent policy of the Spanish Government, had entered into a treaty to support die Government of the Queen, and already were pursuing measures in couforeaiw with the articles contained in the treaty.

Mr. HARDY denied that the question under debate was whether Ire- land should be governed upon free principles— There was equal law in Ireland for all parties, and there was no tyros except that " pestilence which walked in darkness, and in secrecy did its deeds of evil." (Loud cheering.) In so far, and in so far only, was it the qeestesa whether Ireland was to be governed on principles of tyranny or principles s freedom. He maintained that the Government was going over to the policy of Mr. O'Connell ; but he would resist a tyranny that was growing greater The Galleries were then cleared for a division ; but after a short their Shibboleth—of smiting with the sword of the Lord and of Gideon ; they thee they were reopened, and they ceased only when they had made the country a wilderness—not a howling Mr. O'CONNELL was found addressing the House. Ile bad been wilderness, for they permitted no living thing to survive that could howl ? By directly alluded to several times during the debate, and that was a suf- degrees some small concessions were obtained from England drop by drop ; or Solent excuse for him to protract it : but he had another and a better rather, he should say, in single hairs at a time those slender advantages were excuse ; for the question before the House was one of the highest im- acquired, until at length Ireland became, to a certain extent, disenthralled; portanee to the People of Ireland— but it was solely by her own exertions. It was a questiou whether you were really doing injustice to that country— whether you were disposed to continue that injustice, or whether you would in Ireland as much as possible by Lord. Stanley ; and this was done e xpress a hope of treating Ireland as England and Scotland had been treated. from a fear lest the power of individuals should be augmented- nal was the question. He knew right well that there were many and many Well, did he diminish the power of those individuals? No, he augmented Who, out of Ireland, though they would not dare to declare that they would re- it considerably. lie was the author of that power. Things would have gone kwe to do her justice, though they were ashamed to say they would perpetuate on in the constitutional channels ; that power would have been absorbed; but As injustice now done to her, yet were ready enough to consummate the effect. the constitutional channels were dammed up, the natural course was turned, and England had never done justice to Ireland. (" Oh, oh!" from the Opposi- therefore the country rallied around an ungifted and untalented undividual. hits.) Never. (Ministerial cheers, and cries of " Oh, oh .1" from the Op- Why ? Because he represented their wants, and their wishes, and their suffer- position.) Ireland had o!,tained concessions from England; nay, she had ings, and was the perpetual foe of their oppressors. That was the secret of his extorted some recent measures of justice from her, measures which had been power. You have augmented it in Ireland : take care you do not refused by men upon principle, and afterwards conceded by them against their augment it elsewhere than in Ireland. (Cheers.) He had had Scotehmen own avowed principles. The right honourable baronet had talked to-night shouting around him—he had had thousands of Englishmen cheering hire about not exactly understanding what was meant by principle. Why, he be- within the last forty-eight hours. In Birmingham—(Derisive cheers from the Erred him. That right honourable gentleman had for years been the ad- Omosition)— Ay, but the men of Birmingham carried the Reform Bill. vseate, upon a Christain principle, of that policy of exclusion which was so (Loud cheers from the Ministerial side of the House.) He told them in hug directed against Roman Catholics; but he yielded to them when they Birmingham, that he came here with a wish to see whether he could obtain ewe strong enough to make it prudent that he should do so. Concessions to justice for Ireland ; that he had met congregated thousands in that country, and the Roman Catholics of Ireland were never made till their demand became asked them would they give up Repeal if he could get Justice? He was met irreeistible ; and here was he now again calling for justice to Ireland ! There with an unanimous shout, " Get us Justice from England, and never think of was a coalition to-night-not a base or unprincipled one, God forbid! but an Repeal more." He came with that announcement to the British Legislature. exceedingly natural coalition, between the right honourable baronet and the He announced it with no affectation of humility: he did not represent any parti- motile lord the Member for South Lancashire—(A voice, " North Lancet- cular town, city, or borough ; he represented millions, and had the confidence of sure")—well, North Lancashire, he cared not. (Laughter.) It was a per- millions. Do justice to Ireland, and they had nothing to apprehend from the feedy natural, but it was an impromptu coalition. (Laughter.) The noble further agitation of Repeal, nothing to apprehend from Ireland, but every thing lard hail not the least notion of taking a part in this debate when he came to hope. Henceforward separation was at an end. Do them justice, and they down to-night, er of seating himself where he now sat. [Lord Stanley was were ready to become a party to the empire; refuse it at your peril. (" Hear, sitting next to Sir Robert Peel on the front seat of the Opposition benches.] hear !" from the Opposition.) When he said "at your peril,' he did not mean Bo limo the noble lord's candour and fair dealing ; and having told the House to threaten Englishmen. (Cheers.) He liked that cheer. He would not of the sudden inspiration which induced him to take a part against Ireland, he threaten, but he appealed upon these grounds for justice. Was he to be met by w og potently believed him, because he well knew that the noble lord required the holy coalition -between the right honourable baronet and the noble lord? ow preparation to induce hint to vote against the interests of Ireland. (" Oh, Was it that there were no evils in Ireland ? The right honourable gentleman, al !" from the Opposition benches.) He thanked them for that groan—it who knew it well, did not attempt to say that. The Corporation of Dublin, was just of a piece. He regretted that he had been drawn at once into argu with 28,0001. a year, expended 00,0001. They had no means of rewarding Mr. WARD rose amidst cries of " Question !" and " Withdraw ! " but he stood his ground, and was soon allowed to proceed. He said

that he was delighted to find that Mr. Hardy had put the question on its real merits : he was glad that he had discarded that mockery of moderation which his party were apt to assume in that House, though there was no term of vulgar abuse which they did not apply to the party which supported Ministers, in their acknowledged organs of the press, and whenever they addressed people out of doors. It would not do

for gentlemen who so conducted themselves to " come over " the House with an affectation of moderation. The House would not be so mis. lad-- He would not have honourable gentlemen who had been taunting—out of the Renee, where they knew they could nut he met by contradiction or exposure— those independent Members who supported the present Government with having formed an unprincipled coalition and conspiracy, and of truckling to the honourable and learned Member for Dublin, think that they were to avail themselves of this discussion to persuade the country that the principles which they professed here were really the principles which were the rule of their conduct. The honourable alember for Bradford had put the question upon a proper footing. Ile denied justice to Ireland—(" No. no !")—because he would n ot establish a tyranny in the person of the honourable and learned Member for Dublin. [Mr. Ilardy—" I did not say any suck thing.] This was of a piece with the language which had been held by the party, and by the parties them- i• E:wca they had had an opportunity to express their opinions during the last six months. Never had there been an attempt by any political party we by any party press to run down an individual made to such an extent as had been made by the Tories and the Tory press to run down the honourable and learned Member for Dublin. (111inisterial cheers, and Opposition cries of "No, no I") Every thing connected with the party which that honourable and learned gentleman represented—every thing connected with their name and bane, things the most sacred and most holy—had been made the subjects of the most disgraceful scurrility by the organs of the Tory party. The House had been told by honourable gentlemen opposite, that they were not responsible for the language of that portion of the press which was in their interest. He trusted that no party spirit could by any possibility plant such sentiments as bad been espresaed by that portion of the press in the breasts of Englishmen. If the parties who applied such language to eight millions of their Irish countrymen, after reading, as be had done, the Reports of the Irish Poor-Law Commis- eioners,—describing the complication of miseries to which thousands of them Were exposed, many absolutely starving in the midst of plenty, men, their wives and children, sinking under their sufferings, and yet abstaining from all violence to the property NW roundher them, and seeking ouly that consolation in this world which their religion afforded,—if those parties who vilified the clergy administering such consolation denied that the religion they taught was imbued, and deeply imbued, with the spirit of Christianity, then he would say those men knew not what the spirit of Christianity was. ( Cheers.) He knew not whether the pledge to which the right honourable baronet objected in the Address might hive been avoided—or whether is more general ex session might or might not, in the first instauce, have been used ; but the question was whether, having given that pledge, and having distinctly professed that we were ready, as the Representatives of England, to give to Ireland the benefit of the same principle which we Were enjoying in our own country, we should now as distinctly withdraw that pledge ? If a majority of that house were pre- pared, as he believed they were, to apply the same principle of Municipal Reform to Ireland as 11 el been applied to England and Scotland, and which bad given such unqualified satisfaction to the People—if a majority were pre- pared to go to that extent, be did not conceive, without stultifying themselves, that they could retrace their steps. Ile thought it was a question of substance, and nut, as the honourable Member for Bradfind had said, a mere matter of foam. He thought if his Majesty's Government, olio had advised his Majesty to introduce that pledge in the Speech from the Throne, would stand final' and support the course which they had so advised, he might assure them that they 1111113t reckon upon the joint support of every independent man in the House. ( Cheers, and loud cries of " Question !") Colonel SIBTHORPE made a few almost inaudible observations, amidst barghter and cheers. He charged Ministers with truckling to O'Con- nell; who, he said, had more talent than all of them put together.

sod greater every day. Mr. O'Connell then touched upon the several topics of the Speech in high terms of commendation ; and he was very glad to see, that while the external alliance with France was spoken of, nothing was said in praise of the infamous and tyrannical domestic policy of the French King. No statesman in that House would dare to get up and say that he approved of the conduct of the French Government.

The Speech then alluded to Spain. We were the allies of the Queen of Spain. Don Carlos, however, had some allies amongst us—not bound by treaty—no—against treaty, but bound by inclination. Who were those allies ? Why some of the purest, most strictly-regulated, and, to use a common phrase in Ireland, which he did not mean to apply offensively, most bitter Protestants in this House, were allied with Don Carlos—who had reestablished the Inqui. sition, and who was most observant of the ceremonies belonging to the esta- blished religion of Spain, and who was now waging war against his own country. That war ought to be put an end to. Two or three British battalions would soon put an end to it. ( Opposition laughter, and cheers from the Ministerial benches.) Yes ; their appearance would put an end to it. (Renewed laughter from the Opposition, and .13finisteria1 cheers.) Let those placed under their able and gallant leader, be disciplined by him, and they would soon be able to destroy the tyrannical power of Don Carlos in that country. He knew that parties prevailed there—that one party ctied out for liberty, and another for religion ; and that each party, by their acts, disgraced the cause which they espoused. Legalized murders were perpetrated on the one side, and massacres on the other ; and he equally deprecated the horrible cruelties of the one party, and detested the spirit ufulespotisiu and tyranny of the other.

He was gratified by the assurance of the Speech that the Dissenters were about to obtain the removal of their grievances. The principles of the Speech, he had now said enough to show it, were the principles of civil and religious liberty. He would no longer dwell upon it, but would again revert to Ireland—.

He had left Ireland to seek for justice in this country; and taking his fare- well of vast bodies of Irishmen, he had asked them if they would accept justice in exchange for their project of a separate Legislature. To a man they declared their willingness to abide by the English connexion, if they could rationally indulge any hope of that justice from which, during so many centuries, they had been excluded. The present Legislature of the United Kingdom might for a season disappoint the hopes of the Irish People, and honourable Members then in that (louse might mock their expectations, and sneer at their prejudices; but that would only bind them closer to a design which every real Irishman cherished at his heart's core. How little did those know of the senti- ment of nationality who vainly supposed such a wish could ever cease to be cherished by the great body of the Irish People! Could not English gentle. men remember a little of their own feelings—with what affection did they re- gard their own country—their Old England was uaturally and justly their proudest boast ; they would rather die than see the sun of England set. He could sympathize with, and give them full credit for their love of country ; but at the same time, he demanded that the people, whose sentiments he spoke in that House, should be borne with when they indulged a similar passion. It might be with his fellow countrymen a weak fancy; they might vainly hope to restore the long-lost glory of a former age; the vision of their patriotism might never assume a character of reality ; but while they lived and breathed, Irishmen would never cease to indulge the hope, notwithstanding that the treatment they hurl experienced, especially since the Union, would have plunged in despair any spirit. less buoyant. Oh! they knew not how foully men in a state of physical misery clung to what might be the delusions of the imagina- tion ! For nine-and twenty years after the Union, Ireland had been treated not like a province, but like a pitiful colony. In that assembly, which super- ceded the functions of her own domestic Legislature, it had been said by one of the most eloquent men who ever filled a place in it, that it was always most difficult to keep in attendance forty Members for the purpose of transacting the ordinary routine business relating to that part of the United Kingdom. Could the most sceptical of mankind demand a stronger proof that habitually justice was not rendered to Ireland ; that, in fact, justice was never done ; that the English Government never did any thing like justice; that they invariably took a distinction between the English of the Pale and those who were without the Pale, including such as might be described in the oft-repeated phrase ipsis Hibernis Hiberniores ; that the Irish were in all ages persecuted ; that the standard of persecution was at every favourable opportunity unfurled ; that the Persecutors of his unhappy countrymen never missed an occasion of shouting The Galleries were then cleared for a division ; but after a short their Shibboleth—of smiting with the sword of the Lord and of Gideon ; they

The Irish Reform Bill had been a mockery. Reform was restricted

ing upon the principle of the question; for he could have wished to dwell upon that Speech which had been graciously delivered from the Throne this day.

meritorious statesmen for services p aforrned. They had pictures to be sure in their hall, but they left these statesmen puuctually to pay for them. Neither Sir Robert Peel nor Lord Stanley had pointed out any thing objectionable in the principle of the English and Scotch Reform Bills—.

The right honourable baronet had spoken of " plausible" analogies : he liked every thing plausible which went not to the substance ; and such was hie

Amendment, though introduced with less talent than he usually displayed. 1t seemed to him that the right honourable baronet was waiting for inspiration from above. ( Cheers and laughter.) Suddenly a voice came from the powers above—then hurrah and off with it—then came an attack on Ireland.

(Ministerial cheers, and cries of " Net, no ! ") Why did not the right honourable baronet candidly eay he would not apply the same principle to Ire-

land as to England and Scotland ? No ; he would not say it, but he is doing it. Did the right honourable baronet think he could delude the People of Ireland ? You might accuse them of crime, of superstition, but you could not

say that they were not a shrewd people. What is it this question narrowed itself into? The Speech proposed that the evils of the Corporations in Ireland should be removed by the same principle as that applied ia England. Why not give us the hope? The right honourable gentleman said he did not understand the question.. Why not ? It was expressed by the majority of the House last year, and wa.s partly the means of removing him from power. The principle was, that there should be popular control over the administra- tion of the funds and of justice in corporate towns. But the principle W:1■4 VIIIICESE0011, because it had not been attempted to be impugned. Neither the right honourable baronet nor the noble had had pointed out any thing objec- tionable to that principle being applied to Ireland, that would not be equally objectionable to its application in England. Let the House divide upon this .question. ( Cheers from the Opposition.) That was a hearty cheer. Would any men who did not imagine themselves in a majority make such a cheer ? But perhaps they would find themselves mistaken. (Ministerial cheers.) Let the House divide upon this question, whether they exulted in the hope of legislating for Ireland upon the same principle as for England and Scotland. Reject the motion, and lie would go back upon Repeal. They might put an end to one agitatur ; they might crush one, but they would at the same time create thousands in favour of Repeal. Did they wish to make him a Repealer again? He saw by their countenances and by their cheers he knew their hearts, and was not deluded by the hypocrisy of what fell from their lips. He would judge them by their votes, and cared no more for their pretences than did the strong wind for the faded leaf driven before it.

Why should there be any demur as to this question ? Where was the necessity of more time for consideration ?— Ought not honourable Members' minds to be made up upon so simple a subject as that of doing justice to Ireland ? had not the right honourable baronet opposite read the Corporation Report? Aud did he not know that the Irish Corporation Bill must have been one of the first measures of the session ? (" No, no ! ") No ! Impossible. He must have known it. He would defy him to contradict it. Of those who sat about him there was not one who did not know it. And were they then to come down to that House and refuse even to hold out a hope to Ireland that they would legislate for her on the same principle as for England and Scotland ? He put it to every holleA. titan ill that House—to every independent man, be meant—who cared not for the triumph of party, whose object was riot to render Toryism as rampant as in former days, but who, at the same time, did not object to sec the democratic principle of liberty replace the mockery of representation—whether it was not but simple justice, as well as sound police, to extend to Ireland the benefit of those ameliorations which had been introduced into the institutions of England and Scotland? That was all that was asked, and that was what was resisted in the present Amendment. But he put it to the honesty of his Majesty's Minister.—again and again he appealed to their common honesty—whether they should permit their high honour to be once more tarnished—whether they should allow themselves to be dragged through the kennel once more. (" Oh, oh ! ") But no; he could not suppose it They were delivered from the former difficulties; the " calamity " of the Administration was no longer amongst them. They were relieved, and were now disposed to do justice to Ireland. They had placed the government of that country in the hands of a nobleman far beyond his praise ; but who, he could not help observing, had had the singular fortune to pass unassailed by one of the most venomous presses that was ever tinged with Orangeism in any country. Even that press had not dared to bring against him one charge of partiality or undue preference. ( Cheers, and "011, oh ! ") He repeated, they had not. If those who cried " Oh, oh !" meant to contradict him, let them specify their charge; let them reduce it to words. Oh no ; they dared not. They knew they would become the laughingstock and ridicule of Englishmen.

Deeply would he regret the necessity of renewing the Repeal agita- tion as the means of extorting justice for his country— Sorry would lie be to be driven to the readoption of such a course: but, though years were coming upon him, he was in heart young as ever ; ready as ever to begin, if necessary, the struggle for the liberty of his country—of that country of which he gloried in being the hired and pensioned advocate. He stood in a position never occupied by man before. Ile was the " hireling" if they would—the pensioner, the servant, ay, the slave, if they chose—of the People of Ireland : but he was the representative of their sentiments. (Cheers.) And on their behalf, what was it he asked ? An expression of a hope that Ireland should be put upon an equality with England and Scotland. He wanted no boon—no loan of twenty millions—but the sincere expression of

this hope. And would they—could they refuse this ? He would not say, dare they—for that would start them off the other way at once; but humbly and submissively he should appeal to them, as English gentlemen, to rally with the Ministry that night, and give to Ireland the poor consolation of a hope that justice might be done to her. Nothing more was asked than the expression of this hope. Surely it was worth their consideration whether they should deny it. Never, he could assure them, would they have such an opportunity of con-

ciliating Ireland by doing justice. Did they forget 1825 ? ("Hear, hear !")

Were the lessons of history thrown away upon them? (" Hear, hear !") Experience, it was said, made even fools wise—and they were not fools ; and he should call to their recollection the year 1825, when the People of Ireland were upon their knees, begging for justice as a beggar's boon. They were scorned; their prayer was rejected. His own speeches, he remembered, were flung tauntingly at him from the Treasury benches of that House, when he had no

opportunity of replying. The " other place" had rejected their prayer, but were soon convinced that the people were not to be scorned with impunity. And the noble lord, it seemed, had discovered that because " the other place" refused to hold out a hope to Ireland, that House ought to acquiesce. With all deference for " the ally," a worse argument he could not have possibly urged. The reason he had urged was the very reason why that House should not acquiesce. ( Cheers.) Frequent allusion had been made to his power and influence— That power he derived from public opinion ; and what, he asked, created that opinion ? Injustice—the injustice inflicted upon Ireland. Those who ere adverse to his possessing that power could weaken—could destroy it. Let them only do justice to Ireland. But let them refuse that justice, and they wounded the country to the heart's core ; they shook to the very base the Throne of the Monarch for which they professed their respect, and they weakened that union which they appeared anxious to perpetuate. They had vaunted their determination to support that Union "even to the death ;" and there were the Irish People now ready to go with them and support it "to the death,"—upon the condition, however, that equal justice should be done to them with the People of England and Scotland-. Until that justice, however, was done, they would not cease to seek for it ; and if it could not be obtained from England, they must seek it for themselves. Every man who heard hint now, must acknowledge that the course he was adopting in asking for it, was the proper and constitutional one. They might condemn, as much as they pleased, the course he adopted elsewhere ; but that which he now did, must surely meet with their approbation. Honourable Members on the opposite side might taunt him and the Ministry, if they would, with having formed a coalition. They might renew against hint the vulgar prejudice that used to exist against an Irishman and a Papist ; they might send abroad their minions to sow discord and disaffection—to pour out calumny and slander—calling themselves, the while, ministers of the God of charity ; still they could not evade the question really before the House, which lay in an exceedingly narrow compass. lie demanded for Ireland, in the spirit of the Constitution, equal justice—the advantage of the same principles of Government as were extended to England and Scotland. lie would not take less. They might grant it with advantage—they would refuse it at their peril. ( Cheers.) Mr. SHAW spoke briefly in reply to Mr. O'Connell ; to the effect that he was perfectly ready to reform Irish Corporation abuses, but that 'Lord John Russell and his supporters overlooked the wide difference between "popular control " and " popular violence." The principle of the English Municipal Bill, if applied to Ireland, would transfer power from the friends to the enemies of the British con- nexion.

The House then divided ; when there appeared—

For the Address 284

For the Amendment 243

Majority for Ministers...... 41

The report of the Address was brought up last night, and a long discussion ensued. Mr. FEcToa, Mr. GROVE PRICE, Lord MAHON, Lord FRANCIS EGERTON, Mr. A. TREVOR, and Mr. Peter Boriliwiek I were the orators on the Tory side of the House ; Mr. HUME, Mr. EWART, and Lord PALMERS'fON, defended the policy of Ministers. The debate had reference principally to the affhirs of Spain. The tone of the Opposition speakers was vehemently Carlist. Mr. GROVE PRICE called Mina "a hoary old butcher;" said he had the pleasure to

inform Lord Palmerston that Don Carlos had 100,000 men in arms ; and that the Spanish liberty was " the dissoluteness of Brigands :" the

Church property had been confiscated to feed Stock Exchange vultures : as to the French alliance, "it was hollow and unstable as a building of untempered mortar ;" the present generation of Frenchmen thirsted to revenge Waterloo. Lord FRANCIS EGERTON Wits more moderate in his expressions ; he apologized for the late tyrannical measures of the King of the French, but considered France the natural ally of England. Mr. IlordE approved of every part of the Speech but that which announced an augmentation of the Navy Estimates. If it were necessary to increase the Navy, why not reduce the Army in Ireland, and hand over the saving to the Navy? Mr. Hume also remarked severely on the conduct of the Peers. Almost every act of the Peers proved that they forgot they were not privileged to do evil. Lord PALMERSTON replied sarcastically to several parts of Mr. Grove Price's speech, especially those in which he boasted of the power of a Monarch whose ports were blockaded, and who was himself

shut up in the mountains of Biscay. No division took place ; and the Address was ordered to be pre- sented to-day. For which purpose the House meets at one o'clock ; but no other business is to be done.

The Address from the House of Lords was presented yesterday to

the King at St. James's Palace.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. EWART last night moved a resolution, that no business, except of a merely formal nature, should be entered on after half-past eleven at night. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, that the matter had better be left to the discretion of Members. Mr. O'CoNNELL said, no business of any kind ought to be begun after eleven o'clock ; and he moved to amend Mr. Ewart's resolution to this effect. Mr. HUME said the House was overburdened with business ; and was of opinion that all " private business " should be referred to another tribunal. Sir ROBERT PEEL objected strongly to this proposition, and also to Mr. Ewart's resolution. Mr. T. ATrwooD thought that private business might be referred to a delega- tion of justices, with an appeal to a Committee of Parliament. Mr. BROTHERTON said, that if Mr. Ewart's resolution were rejected, he should recur to his practice of last session, and move the adjournment of the House at twelve o'clock each night. The resolution, as amended by Mr. O'Connell, was then put, and negatived, by 233 to 51.

RELIEF TO THE POLISH REFUGEES. In reply to a question from Lout DUDLEY STUART, last night, Mr. SPRING RICE said he intended to propose a grant of public money for the relief of the destitute Poles now in England.

NEW WRITS. On the motion of Mr; E. J. STANLEY, on Thursday, new writs were ordered for Melton, in the room of Sir Charles Pepys; for Devizes, in the room of Admiral Durham ; for South Leicester- shire, in the room of Mr. F. Turner; and for Glasgow, in the room

of Mr. Dunlop.

Last night, new writs were ordered for Stoke-upon-Trent, in the

room of Mr. R. E. Heathcote; and for Cockermouth, in the room of "Mr1 Dykes.

NOTICES OF MOTIONS. From the notices of motions already placed on the Vote-paper, we select the following as the most important. For a Committee on Agriculture, by Mr. SPRING Ries, on the 8th instant. For leave to bring in an English Tithe Bill, by Mr. SPRING Rica, on the 9th. For leave to bring in a Bill for Registering Aliens, by Lord Ram RUSSELL, on the 9th. For leave to bring in Bills for the Registration of Births, Marriages, and Deaths, and for the Celebration of the Marriages of Dissenters, by Lord JOHN Russzee, on the 11th, For leave to bring in a Bill to render more effectual the Registration of Voters for Members of Roliament, by Sir JOHN CAMPBELL, on the 8th instant. For a Committee to inquire into the Carlow Election of June last, by Mr. Hazer. On the 11th instant. or Leave to bring in an Irish CO istabul try I ill, by I out Molter:mon the 18th instant. For leave to bring iu a Bill to regulate the Expenses of Elections, by Mr. Hume, on the 8th instant.

For an Address to dismiss any Officer under Government who is a member of an Orange Lodge. by Mr. Home, on the 23d instant. To put a Question relative to' the measures taken by the Commander-in-Chief with regard to Orangemen in the Army, by Mr. Hume, on the 8th instant. For the Committee on Orange Lodges to extend its inquiries to other Associations, by Colonel Vs:1mm, on the 15th of March.

To repeal the Newspaper Stamp-duty, by Mr. WA IC LEY, on the 15th of March. To repeal the Septennial Art, by Mr. WAKI.xy, on the 20.b of March.

Resolution on Irish Poor-laws, by Mr. It 'CHARDS, on the 17th of March. For leave to bring in a Bill to relieve the Bishops from their duties in Parliament, by Mr. RIPPON, on the 6th of April. Resolution on General Taxation, by Mr. Rostrum on the 9th instant. On the Malt-duty, by Colonel Ilasonev, on the 15th of April. For Equalizing the Duty on East and West India Sugar a henever the Sugar-duties are brought before the House, by Mr. EWART. For leave to bring in a Bill or Bills for the better Observance of the Sabbath, by Sir ANDREW AGNEW.On the 21st of April. Eor a Committee on Sinecures and Pcusioas, by Mr. lisnvey, on the 17th of March. For leave to bring in a Bill for extending the right of Voting for Members of Parlia- ment to all persons entitled to vote for Town-Councillors, by Mr. HARVEY, on the 224 of March.

For leave to bring in a Bill to disfranchise Stafford, by Mr. DIVETT, on the 24 March. Resolution declaratory of the baneful effects of Oraugeism, by Mr. FINN, no day Named.

Resolution that all Parliamentary Bills shall in future be written in plaiu round hand, Instead of being engrossed in black letter, by Mr. Hume, on the IOph of March. Resolution, that a Poor-law for Ireland, on the principle of the 43.1 Elizabeth, is expedient and necessary, by Mr O'Baten, on the 16th February.

For leave to bring in a Bill to repeal Sturges Bourne's Act, by Mr. WAK LEY, on the 8th of March.

For leave to bring in a Bill to nutituri.e Ratepayers in Counties to choose Represen- tatives to form a County Revenue Board for the assessment, levying. and adminis- tration of the County-rates, by Mr. flume, on the StIt of March. For leave to bring in a Bill to amend and consolidate the laws respecting the Stamp- duties, by Mr. SPRTNO Bice, on the 8th of March.