15 JUNE 1850, Page 2

Vtlintro nnh 1lltUhULg illVuttiautrat.


Room OF LORDS. Monday, June 10. Royal Assent, by Commission, to the Pro- MIN and Practice (Ireland) Act Amendment, Parish Constables, Acts of Parliament Abbreviation, Sunday Fairs PreVeration, and nine other Bills-Encumbered Estates (Ireland) Act Amendment Bill, second reading agreed to after debate-Australian Colonies Government Bill ; Petition from Colonists to be heard against, presented by Lord Brougham; Motion negatived, by 33 to 25: Bishop of Oxford's Motion, to refer the Bill to a Select Committee, negatived by 34 to 21. Tuesday, June 11. Australian Colonies Bin, in Committee ; Lord Monteagle's Amendment for two Chambers, negatived by 22 to 20; Lord Lyttelton's Waste Lands Amendment, negatived by 28 to 18; Bishop of Oxford's Church Amendment, with- drawn on explanation ; Bill reported, Thursday, June 13. Royal Commission to the Universities; Conversation. Friday, June 14. Court of Chancery; Lord Brougham's Appeal Bill, read a se- cond time-Australian Colonies Government Bill, considered in Committee, and re- -Estates Leasing (Ireland) Bill, and, Judgments (Ireland) Bill, passed through re- ported-Estates HOUSE OF COIRS0218. Monday, Julie 10. Sunday Rest in the Post-Wilco: the Queen's Answer to the recent Address-Supply Report ; Mr. Hume's Amendment to reduce the Vote for the New Houses, negatived by 144 to 62; Motion for a Select Committee, negatived by 85 to 55-Lord-Lieutenancy (Ireland) Abolition Bill; se- cond reading debated; adjourned till Dloaday-Suaunary Jurisdiction (Ireland) Bill, read a SOCOOd time, in order tote referred up-stairs-Census Bill, read a first tune. • Tuesday, June 11. Metropolitan Interments Bill, further considered in Commit- tee; clauses from 30 to 53 debated, and carried by Government against divisions- Margate Harbour; Select Committee moved by Ur. Mackinnon, deprecated by Sir Francis Baring, but carried by 71 to 60-Bonded Spirits ; Motion to consider Mode of Levying DIM'', in Committee, carried against Government, by 78 to 47; Resolu- tions agreed to, under Mieisterial protest--Railway Communications in India; Lord 7ocely-n's M.otion for Papers, unopposed by Ministers-Incorporation of certain Bo- roughs, Bill to confirmbrought in by Mr. Cornewall Lewis, and read a first time. Wednesday, June 12. Landlord and Tenant Bill, debated in Committee-Court of Chancery; Mr. Turner's Bill, read a second time. Thursday, June 18. County Court Extension Bill, considered in Committee, and rerertvd a ntended-Bublin Libraries sad Museums Bill; Colonel Sibthorp's Mo- tion to throw out the bill, negatived by 87 to 21; Committee postponed till hlonday -Marriages Bill, considered. in Committee, and reported-General Board of Health Bill, considered in Committee.

Friday, June 14. Factories Bill, oonsidored in Committee-Metropolitan Inter- ments Bill, considered in Committee-Marriages Bill, as amended, considered; to be read a third time on the 10th July.


The lords.

Hour of Hour of Meeting. Adjournment.

The Conuncns.

Hour of Hoar of

meeting. Adjournment.


5h 12h 50m Monday Tuesday ..(m) lb 15m Noon Sh 20m Tuesday 12h 45m

5h 30m.... 111, Om Wednesday No Sitting. Wednesday Noon .... 66 On Thurinthy 511. 7h 20ni Thuthdal

44 -NO lb 45555

Friday 9h 20m Friday - (es) lb Om Sittings this Week, 4; Time, 226 13m Sittings this Week, 6; Time, 4211 30m —this Seaton, 61; —149h 47m — this Session,97 ; —669h 33nt


An effective canvassing awaited the Australian Colonies Government Bill in the House of Lords, as soon as important stages were entered.

As a preliminary step, on Monday, Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from certain persons interested in the Australian Colonies, to be heard against the bill by themselves or by counsel at their Lordships' bar. The Petitioners objected to the franchise of the bill, as too high and narrow ; to the proposed Legislative Council, as vicious in principle ; and to the pro, posed federal institutions, as premature ; and they complained of the ma- nagement of their local affairs by a remote colonial administration in this country. Lord Brougham had a number of precedents for his applieation —at least a dozen ; Eymong others, the hearing of Mr. Burge for Jamaica, and Mr. Roebuck for Canada: substitute Australia for Canada, and the latter case would be the same as that before the House. Lord Brougham moved accordingly. Earl GREY professed to be very glad to hear counsel, if it were in accordance with the practice of the House ; but the House does not hear counsel on public measures, unless the individual interests of the parties are concerned : here the bill does not affect the individual interests of the petitioners ; it is a bill not to take away rights and pri- vileges—to supereede the powers of an Assembly, as in the Jamaica case, or to suspend a constitution, as in the Canada case—but to maintain the existing law, making no alteration except such as is petitioned for, or suck as illereaMia the oontrol of the colonists over their expenditure. The patitienata am very few—not more than five or six of them being persons directly interested in the Colonies. Mr. Lowe's signature would have had more weight if more numerenaly arresimpanied by those of fel- low colonists. Mr. Sec*, tlip agent pf one et*e colonies, though ample bas elis4d, is nogliss4spoted to present dm petition, and has received no instructions to oppest taii bill ot to suggest alterations in it ; it is thessfore the untruthosfaCilAt of Mr. Scott, ansi there is very little doubt that it will *At be apperist of by hia aenstitsents. Lord MONTEAOLE observed, that the bill tabs away the control over waste lands, which

Lord John Russell promised ; and there has been no time for the colonists to complain of this. The Earl of Sr. GsameNs pointed out that the colonists declared themselves perfectly satisfied with the legislation em- bodied in the bill, quite irrespectively of Lord John Russell's declaration about the sale of lands, which did not reach them until after the declara- tion of their satisfaction with the report of the Privy Council had been forwarded to this country. On a division, the motion was negatived, by 33 to 2,5 ; majority, 8.

The Bishop of OXFOBE moved that the bill be referred to a Select Com- mittee ; exPrcissing his opinions as to the real characteristics of the mea- sure, in language " too plain, perhaps, to be very palatable to those who had the parentage of the bill." • He could net help saying, that it appeared to him to be a bill marked by the most injudicioes haedlipg of great and permanent interests that, within

his experience, he ever rememberedto have seenpresented to their Lordships'

House. The main proposition of the bill, wIneb was the constituting of a single chamber, composed of the most inharmonious elements, in which all matters relating to the Australian Colonies were to be considered and ar- ranged, appeared to him to be in the last degree objectionable. It was irra- tional in principle,. and he was sure that it would be found to contain the seeds of certain destruction and injury to the Colonies. He denied that the colonists had accepted the bill. The hid was, that the Colonies had been labouring under gross evils and inflictions, very bard to be borne by any people of English origin; and when they were offered by the Government a bill which professed to relax some of the most stringent evils of the present system,- it was but natural to expeet that it should be hailed with unthinking enthusiasm, even though it might contain in other parts of it most prejudiced provisions. This being notoriously true, it was scarcely fair for I,ord Grey to represent the satisfactien which might be en- tertained at some of the provisions as a general and unmilitakeable expression of approvul of the whole measure. The Bishop repeated, in lucid and effective langusgq, many of the argil- ments against particular provisions witieh bad beeii urged by Mr. Lowe,—

the bad working of the nominee system ; the disadvantage of the aingle chamber ; the feasibility of having two eketire chambers; the peculiar ef- fimt of the restrictive franchise in cutting out the wealthy and influential members of the community, &c. But even though it were true, as he be-

lieved it to be the very reverse, thatNew South Wales W613 in favour of this single chamber, was that any reason why the same constitution should be applied to the other Australian Colonies, for which there was not a shadow

of evidence to show that it was either desired or appropriate ? The funda- mental prinoiple of the bill was vicious ; and therefore he thought that he had made out a sufficient case to induce their Lordships to send the measure to a Select Committee, where it onrld be calmly and judicially considered, and with proper evidence. It was said that if the single chamber were wrong, the colenists might correct it themselves. Was there ever, since the world began, a political

philosopher who could urge such an argument in favour of the passing of

any measure lle said that it was a good argument against the bill, be- cause it admitted that the principle was not right end that it would require to be altered. It was proposed to give these colenies a Sect of political go- cart—they were to have a sort of politieal practice for their liinbs and mesa- here; and then, when they had learnt to walk, he would tell them what the result would be—it would be this, that they would altogether sweep away

this present Legislature. The bill would be a perpetual source of irritating and embittering conlikta between the Colonies and the Mother-country. It would teach them to regard all at bow with distrust and aversion ; it would widen breaches which we ought to heal; and it would ultimately lead the Colonies to assert their independence,—a measure mischi,evous and injurious to both parties.

But the bill contained further provisions, which he thought would be pregnant with evil. First, it maintained the mischievous influence of the Colonial Office at Downing Street in repressing all that was good in. the Colonies. On this point he had the noble Earl with him : for the noble Earl was the last man in the world to change any opinion', and in another

place, under another name the noble Earl had dwelt upon the mischie- vous absurdity of a, half-instructed potentate sitting in Downing Street, go. verniug our fellow countfyinen in all oar colonies watered over the face of the glebe. In saying this, he said nothing against Use noble Earl, er his peculiar administration of the Colonies. The Bishop turned to another matter. They were about to transplant among their countrymen in Australia the restrictions of the Establf fied

Church without the correlative advantages; placing the Church of England in a position worse than that of the Romer' Catholic or Presbyterian Church. For himself, if he had his choice, he would not establish. the Clan& of Eng- land in those colonies. He did not believe it suited fur the present tone

of the Colonies; and to establish it there, would be to injure and cramp its subsequent growth. Was it not monstrous that they could. not meet to anti-

any of the Canons of 11:104 ? This threw a power in the hands of the Bishops

which was most disagreeable, hurtful, distasteful, and autocratic, lie would give an illustration of its effect. A clergyman was blown to have been guilty of gross immorality—he had seduced the governess of his own children. iliere was a great desire upon the part of the inhabitants that he should be punished. By the present laws no witness could have appeared to give evi- dence against him; _ the Bishop would have been subject to an action if he

publicly stirred in the matter : so the Bishop, without stating the reason of his resolve, was obliged to refuse to permit, the clergyman, to receive any

further stipend. This was acting in a very autocratic manner. The colonists felt so' and their feelings were enlisted in his behalf. This state of things should not be allowed to exist. He was prepared to lay before them an amendment ; but the House had a right to expect that her Majesty's Government would bring forward curative measures of that name when they assumed the re- sponsibility of administering the affairs of Una mighty country.

Earl Girey taunted the Bishop of Oxford with not having moved that so unwise a bill be read "that day six months" ; and to prove that it was desired by the Australian Colonies, he referred to the number of petitions lying on the table.

The Bishop had said that there was no difficulty in makipg a second coun- cil of elective members : Lord Grey's answer was, that such Councils were utterly unknown to the laws of England, and he for one would not be a par- ty to any of the measures suggested. Lord Grey defended his own consistency. There was not one of the opinions expressed with respect to the Colonies by him in the other House of -Parlia- ment which had not been acted upon regularly, steadily, and conscientiously, by bun and his colleagues, during the time he had the honour of being Secre- tary for the Colonies ; and he challenged the right reverend Prelate to show in what respect they had departed from those opinions. When he said there should be no vexatious interference with the government of the Colonies, did he ever say that the Crown was to abdicate all authority ? Was no super- intending authority to be exercised, in order to prevent measures being adopted inconsistent with the general interests of the British empire ? If this policy were to be pursued, then the sooner the connexion were dissolved the better. He believed, however, there was no practical difficulty in avoid- ing either extremes. He was convinced that good sense and moderation on both aides would enable them to reconcile the authority of the Crown with measures necessary for the wellbeing of the Colonies. The power of disallowing local measures is necessarily reserved to the Crown; but it is very seldom exercised. In fact, no people on the face of the earth enjoy such unrestricted freedom as the colonists of Great Britain. The divisions in New South Wales show that the Government nominees are practically no hinderance on the freedom of legislation : out of 272 divisions, 184 were carried by a majority of elected members; there are only 16 divi- sions in which the nominees were in a majority. In an able speech by Mr. Lowe, which no doubt the Bishop of Oxford had read, that gentleman com- plained of political apathy in the Colonies : now wherever they found poli- tical apathy existing, Lord Grey was certain there was no misgovernment— that was the strongest proof that, on the whole, things were going on well among a people not less disposed to grumble than ourselves.

The Bishop objected to the clause which enabled the colonists to alter their constitution. The introduction of that clause was, however, merely revert- ing to what had been the invariable policy of this country,—namely, to en- able Colonial Legislatures to work out, as experience dictated, that-form of government which they thought most advantageous. Of the thirteen pro- vinces of America, not one of them started originally with the same form of constitution it possessed at the time of the separation. The same was the case with Jamaica. At this moment, every colony except Canada has the power of altering its constitution in concert with the Crown. He believed that to come to the Imperial Parliament to make every trifling modification, would be extremely injudicious policy.

As to the restrictions on the Church of England, of which the Bishop of Oxford complained, the objection applies as well to the Church of Rome, and to the Presbyterian Church. If the protection which the Bishop requires were to be afforded to the Church, it ought to be by an act of the local Legis- lature; and Lord Grey's objection to introducing any clause of the kind into this bill was that it would be interfering in a matter which essentially be- longed to that body, Lord Grey concluded by earnestly entreating their Lordships not to throw out the measure by adopting the amendment—not to dash the cup from the lips of the colonists by. postponing further legislation on the subject. Ile implored them to consider the details of the measure. If they wished so to do they might 'strike out the 5th clause enabling the local Legislature to alter their constitution.; and they might ;hike out the clause enabling them to form a Federal Assembly : but he hoped they would not do so without con- sideration, or that they would not, by throwing out the bill, disappoint the hopes of the colonists.

Lord STANLEY was glad that the Government was ready to consider the question in a spirit of friendly improvement ; and he proceeded to take exceptions to the measure. He did not see the necessity for referring the bill to a Select Committee s but, entertaining considerable objections to parts, especially to the Federal portion, unless those objectionable parts were removed, he should feel it his duty to offer to the whole, in a later stage, the most uncompromising opposition. Lord GREY could not undertake to give an assurance on those points. The House divided—For the amendment, 21; against it, 34; Govern- ment majority, 13.

On Tuesday, Lord Meserrnets made a last effort to obtain an altera- tion, of the part of the bill relating to the singie chamber, by proposing to bleed the words, "-That there shall be within each of the said Colonies of New South Wales and Victoria, a Legislative Council, and Representa- tive Assembly." His speech in support of this amendment was able and telling;. though the facts and arguments had been previously ex- hausted in, the course of so many discussions. Earl GREY made a very brief reply ; as if not caring to reopen the subject. Lord AELNGRE, Lord LYTTELTON, and Lord WODEHOUSEE all supported Lord Monteaglies mo- tion. It was rejected by the narrow majority of 2-22 against 20. The Bishop of Oxitosin moved the insertion of a clause, the effect of which would be to give the Church of England in Australia power for her own management, Earl GrRET admitted that the want of such power is an evil ; but he could not see how to remedy it without introducing other evils. After some discussion, • the Bishop withdrew his clause, on the understanding that Government would incluire into the matter.

The House then resumed; it being arranged that the remaining clauses of tL hill should be taken on Friday.


The second reading of the Lord-Lieutenancy Abolition (Ireland) Bill MSS warmly opposed by several Irish Members—by Mr. GRATrAN, as a warning to the country that" they would soon have a. military government hi Ireland, if they took away the Lord-Lieutenant";, by Mr. G. A. HAMILTON, as "injuring the mereantile interests of Dublin"; by Mr. Manines O'CoNne.m., as "striking a blow that mnstultimately feed to the severance of the two countries" ; by Colonel BUENA as the consummation of the injuries and insulin which England has been heaping upon Ireland from the time of the Union; and by Mr. GROGAN, as tending to aggra- vate the evils arising from absenteeism. Mr. ROEBUCK maintained, that in depriving Ireland of the mock royalty which this bill would abolish, they -were taking:a course likely to consoli- date the Union,. rather than to weaken it.. Lord Joint- RUSSELL reiterated the principal arguments he urged on introducing the bill,—such as the party character and- unpopularity of the Viceregal Court;. and its tendency to withdraw Irish gentlemen from their estates to spend their money in Dublin.

ANSTRY moved, the adjournment of the debate. After some opposi- tion, Lord Joins Russina, consented ; and the resumption was fixed for Monday next.


In moving the second reading of his Encumbered Estates (Ireland) Act Amendment Bill, Lord WESTNEATE said that the object of the mea- sere was to fix a moderate minimum price (fifteen years' purchase) below which no man's property should be sold under that "measure of confis- cation" the Encumbered Estates Act of last scission. When that act passed the House of Lords, it was not to come into operation until an estate was encumbered to half its value ; but an alteration was made in the other House, which empowered any person claiming 1001. against an estate to apply to the Court of Chancery for a receiver, and thus bring the case within the operation of the act. Ile also proposed by his bill to

afford protection (analogous to that in bankruptcy cases) to owners of es. tates under the operation of the act, so that they might attend to their affairs.

The motion found support from the Duke of RICHMOND end the Earl of GLENGALL • who also denounced the present act, as one of confiseation.

Lord Gieng11 vehemently objected to the confiscation of Irish property "merely to uphold some dirty theory of the Manchester school." " We are disgusted." (he said) " with Manchester theories, and we will not have them tried. We defy you to carry on this bill : if you do so, you will have re- bellion ; and you will deserve it." He denounced the amendment in the Commons respecting receivers, as "a swindle."

The Marquis Of LONDONDERRY deprecated the use of such laeguage, and prayed Lord Glengall not to defy the Governments Earl Frrzwissum explained, that in supporting the motion he was tot desirous of repealing the Encumbered Estates Act, in which he believed there was a groat deal of good ; but he wishsd to repeal a part of it, un. der which great injustice was perpetrated on landlords in Ireland. Views very similar were expressed by Lord BEAUMONT and the Earl of Wiest- LOW.

The second reading was at first opposed by Ministers. The Earl of CARLISLE assured Lord Westmeath of the sympathy felt by himself and his colleagues for Ireland, but said that the Government had no intentiott of repealing or dispensing with any of the " leading" provisions of the Encumbered Estates Act : he would not deny that under it some estates had been sold at not very advantageous prices, but it must also be re- membered that others had been sold at unexpectedly high prices. Sub- sequently, however, Lord Carlisle consented to allow the bill to be read a second time, in order that it might go down to the Commons for discus- cussion, with other measures there pending for the appointment of re- °dyers, and in order that the whole question might be considered. The bill was accordingly read a second time.


The following answer, in the Queen's name, to the address on the sub- ject of Sunday labour in the Post-office was communicated to the House of Commons on Monday evening, by Sir GRonens GREY. "I have received your address, praying that the transmission and delivery of letters may in future entirely cease on Sunday in all parts of the kingdom ; also, that inquiry may be made as to how far, without injury to the public service, the transmission of' the mails on the Lord's Day might be diminished or entirely suspended : and, in compliance with your request, I shall give directions accordingly."


The discussion of the Metropolitan Interments Bill, in Committee, has revealed some additional facts to prove the necessity of a thorough re- form. On the reading of the 32d clause, which provides for compensa- tion to the clergy, Sir BENJAMIN HALL complained, that in some-parishes the clergy have made a traffic of their burial-grounds, and this clauso. proposes to give them compensation in proportion to the extent of that traffic.

He would take the nee of St Giles's-in-the-Fields as an instance. What had been the conduct of the clergyman there ?—a clergyman, too, who was very well off, for he had 1,000/. a year as Canon of St. Paul's, in addition be 9874 as Rector of St. Giles's. It had been the practice there to make a feint of covering the coffin whilst the mourners were present, but as soon as they were gone the body and coffin were taken up, the head of the deceased was severed from his body, and cast into a hole, in order that putrefaction might speedily set in. This was done in order to afford more ground for burials, and to bring fees to the clergyman. In 1846, there were but 896 deaths in St. Giles's, yet there were 2,323 burials ; in 1847, there were 1,298 deaths, and 2,877 burials; in 1848, there were 1,111 deaths, and 3,578 burials' and in the half-year of 1849 there were 571 deaths, and no fewer than 3,423 burials; making altogether 3,876 deaths, and 12,221 burials in the course of three and a half years. The-body and coffin were wheeled away in a wheelbarrow,, the head was severed from the body, and thrown into a vault. Yet this man had the assurance to state in his evidence that the cenieteriea of St Panama were in a satisfactory condition. He hail a sort of squarein tha burial-ground where the more wealthy class of persons were interred ; from whom he of. course obtained a higher fee. All these abominations occurred not only under his own jurisdiction, but he had joined with him another clergyman as his sexton—a man who was first a soldier, then a parson then a sexton, and afterwards, in the natural course of things, an undertaker and stone-mason. (Laughter.) Sir GEORGE GREY felt assured that Dr. Tyler could not have had any connexion with such proceedings.

Mr. WAxr.ssr confirmed Sir Benjamin Hall's statement ; but he be- lieved that Dr. Tyler was not aware of what' had been going on until the inquiry took place ; for the funeral service was performed by the reverend" sexton.

Mr. BRIGHT said, them appeared to be little doubt thatthis reverend, soldier and stone-mason had been carrying on a trade in this burying- ground. He understood that this graveyard was purchased for the parish by the funds of the parish, levied on the ratepayers for the purpose. Such being, the case, it did appear a monstrous thing that the ratepayers should be called on to pay the money to purchase the burial-grounds and than that persons should be invited from the surrounding parishes to bury their dead in this graveyard; that the clergymen should put into their pockets the proceeds of this system, and then ashen this bill passed, that they should be empoweted to receive in perpetuity—so long as these inmostares and evils are per- mitted—a sum equivalent to what they had received on an average of the last. five years.

The Committee having gone through the hill as far as clause 53, the Chairman reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again.


Another small defeat was sustained by Ministers in the House of Come mons on Tuesday. Mr. UACKINNON moved for a Select Committee to- investigate the revenue, condition, and expenditure of Ramsgate and Margate Harbours. At Ramsgate, a revenue of 26,0001. is raised by tolls and otherwise, and spent no one knows how. The Select Committee of 1822 reported that the expenses need not exceed 7,000/. a year—all spent above that was waste. Sir P. T. BATITNG tried the effect of it sug- gestion to suspend the motioh. But the final result was, that 78 voted for the Select Committee, and 47 for Ministers; who were therefore:, beaten by 31. Derr ON BONDED Smirks.

. The motion of Lord NAAs, that the House resolve itself into Committee to take into consideration the present mode of levying the duty on home: made spirits in bond, ended unexpectedly. Lord Naas justified his motion

by the injustice of the present mode of levying ; which, assessing the duty on the spirits as they are made, allows nothing for waste and leakage, as in the case of foreign spirits, which pay duty on being taken out of bond for consumption. Mr. WiLsox opposed the motion, as disturbing the set- tlement made in 1846; and the House then clamouring for a division, Sir CHARLES WOOD spoke against. time as long as he could, in order that the Treasury Members might be called together. But all their efforts were unsuccessful; the motion was carried, by 85 to 53.

The House having resolved itself into Committee, resolutions were passed in accordance with the motion : to which Sir Cirsitims Woon of- fered no opposition, knowing that it would then be useless ; but he said that he would not pledge himself to any future course in the matter.


Lord MoxxitaoLz moved for copies of the papers that have been pub- lished relating to the issue of a Commission of inquiry into the Univer- sities; for the purpose of bringing the subject formally before the House of Lords.

As to the propriety of a Commission, he did not express a decided opinion; but he considered the manner in which it had been determined on, without consulting with and even without the knowledge of the heads of the Univer- sities, exhibited a hostile feeling, that was calculated to be prejudicial to the cause of University reform. In the University of Cambridge, of which he was more competent to speak, there had been for many years an onward movement, and important reforms had been effected ; though he was ready to admit that the members who promoted that movement were in a minority. Of the reforms effected at Cambridge he instanced the institution of the classical tripes, and the conferring of honours not on mathematical attain- ments alone. In Trinity College, the whole of the statutes had been re vi consolidated, and amended, without the exigency of a Commission, an merely on account of a wish to follow the recommendation of the Crown as visiter. St. John's College had, he believed, done the same ; and though peculiar difficulties existed in several of the smaller colleges, yet several of them had introduced important improvements. The University had, indeed, been engaged during the laid seven years in a revision of the statutes and regula- tions, which was now drawing to a close; and there was reason to be- lieve, that when the revision is completed, the whole object of the Commission would be effected without any external pressure. The Commission had, he thought, been undertaken without any adequate appreciation of the reforms now in progress ; and, through not having the cooperation of those engaged in them, a difficulty might interpose in the way of a satisfactory adjustment, instead of aiding those able and intelligent men who, though a minority in the University, had succeeded in effecting so much benefit. The

• Commission might indeed have the advantage of removing the absurd no- tions entertained respecting the wealth of the Universities ; but the evi- dence, not being compulsory, would be only onesided. One of the erroneous opinions respecting the Universities is, that they are much indebted to the Crown and the public; whereas the Chancellor of the Exchequer receives from 32000/. to 4,000/. a year from the fees on degrees in the University of Cambridge alone, and the Crown confers only about 800/. per annum as sa- laries to different professors.

The Earl of Csamsmt protested against the opinion that the issuing of the Commission was a measure hostile to the Universities; and hoped that it would prove useful in directing public attention to the reforms al- ready effected by the Universities themselves, as well as in affording en- couragement and cooperation in forwarding the reforms in progress. The illustrious positions held by the two heads of the Universities pre- eluded the idea that any slight could have been intended to them. In the Government of Sir Robert Peel, a commission was issued to inquire into the condition of Ecclesiastical Chapters and other similar bodies; and the names of the persons composing that Commission afforded in themselves a proof and guarantee that no disrespect was intended to those who were subjects of the inquiry. So with respect to the present Commission, he would take on himself to state, that Government would take care the persons appointed should be men who, by past acquirements, general character, and accom- plishments, are actuated by the greatest attachment and respect to the Universities, and who would be fitted by their more extended relations to the world without to cooperate beneficially with the wisest and most learned men within their walls.

Earl Powis thought the allusion to the Ecclesiastical Commission as a precedent was calculated to strike terror and excite hostility. The re- sults of that Commission were such as to make the Universities very care- ful how they gave evidence before a body established on that precedent. Lord Baotromix considered the Commission a great mistake. It had -evidently been resolved on to satisfy persons who are prejudiced against the Universities. He expressed astonishment at the letter of Prince Al- bert, published last week—

The circumstances in which the illustrious Prince now stood, showed clearly the false position in which he had been placed by the mistaken zeal of his friends, and that the head of an University ought not to be connected with the Crown. The Prince had fallen into the mistake, natural to those who had lived in foreign countries, of supposing the Legislature and the Sovereign were one and the same : but the Royal Commission would speak the sense of the Crown, and in no way that of Parliament. The Duke of WituAtto-rox expressed his satisfaction at Lord Carlisle's explanation respecting the choice of Commissioners. The papers moved for were granted.


In moving the second reading of the Court of Chancery Bill, Mr. Tua- tara stated, that the object of the bill is to diminish the expense and de- lays of proceedings in a court which has under its control, at one time or another, one half of the personal property of the kingdom, and a very large portion of the real property.

The bill proposed, that where parties are desirous of obtaining the opinion of the Court on the construction of a will or deed or an act of Parliament, they should be enabled to state a simple question to be adjudicated upon by the Court. The Court would then declare its opinion on the point sub- mitted to it ; and the executor, administrator, or trustee, on being told by the Court what the law is, may act upon that view, without the expense of a suit. At present, if any question arises upon a share to a residuary estate, the practice of the Court requires you to find out all the persons who claim a share under the will, although they have no interest in the particu- lar ?hare in question. The result is, that the Court refers the matter to the Master to take an account, and call in all the creditors, in order to ascertain that they are all paid, so that the Court may be enabled to do complete justice ; and then the money is paid over to the residuary legatee. Now the bill proposes, that instead of having these preliminary inquiries, the parties should agree in stating the clause in the will in the form of a special ease, which should be taken into the Record and Writ Clerks' Office and filed, and upon the question thus raised the Court would have to determine.

Another branch of the bill, to which he called special attention, was this. A man dies and leaves considerable property, appointing an executor by his will. The executor pays the debts of his testator, and then proceeds to pay over what remains in his hands to the legatees under the wilL That pay- ment, however, i no protection to him. Years afterwards—in one instance a case occurred after the expiration of twenty years, and there was a case within his own knowledge in which such a course was taken forty years afterwards—a suit might be instituted by a party charging the deceased with having been guilty of a breach of trust, and claiming to have the amount due from him ascertained and paid by the executor ; although, in the honest discharge of his duty, the executor lad already paid away all the sums which had come into his hands. In order to provide a remedy for this grievance, under the present state of the law, an executor must procure some person to file a bill who is interested in the estate of the testator ; upon which a decree will be made, referring to the Master to take an account of the testator's poverty, and to call the creditors in ; and when that is done, a decree will be made ordering the legacies to be paid; which decree will be a protection to the executor. He proposed, that instead of referring it to the Master, there should be simply an order of the Court to take an account of the debts and liabilities of the testator ; and upon a report that there are none outstanding, all payments made afterwards by the executor should be sanctioned.

Mr. Turner had reason to believe that none of the Judges of the Court of Chancery dissent from the bill; and he had received the most unqualified approbation of it from Vice-Chancellor Knight Bruce.

Sir Joim Roarrimx entirely concurred in the objects sought by the bill; and he rejoiced to find that it has been received with so much satisfaction by many eminent members of the profession in both Houses of Parlia- ment.

He might be permitted to observe, where so many complaints are made that legal reforms have been postponed so long, that if any of those eminent individuals to whom allusion has been made had endeavoured, in former times, to induce Parliament to sanction such measures as are now before it, as well as others which have already been carried, it would have been sim- ply a useless labour; but latterly, public attention has been so pointedly called to the abuses in the Court of Chancery, that the House and the coun- try loudly call for reform in it, and urgent demands are made that they should proceed more rapidly than they have hitherto done in that direction.

After a few remarks from MT. PAGE WOOD and MT. ANSTEY, the bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Monday next.


In the Committee on this bill, on the motion of the throitarxr-GENE- net, clauses to the following effect were added—That the deputy Judge shall not practise in districts where he acts as deputy; that the defendant may agree with the plaintiff about the debt, and enter a written agree- ment of the amount of the debt, on which the Judge may adjudicate in the same manner as if he had tried the case in open court ; that the Clerk of each County Court may select a jury when required, from a list of persons assessed for the poor at a rental of 201.; that the Treasury may have the power of ordering that judges, clerks, and other officers, be paid by salaries instead of fees ; also a clause to the effect that if a plaintiff or his attorney do not appear on the day of hearing, costs may be awarded to the defendant for his trouble.

A discussion arose on a clause proposed by Mr. CROWDER, to give the right of appeal in all cases where the sum sought to be recovered shall exceed 20/. The clause was opposed by the Arroam-GENenat, on the ground that as the object of the County Courts is summarily, cheaply, and satisfactorily to decide questions which come within their jinistlic- tion, the clause would do much to destroy their efficiency. The same view was taken by Mr. Frrzsox, Sir GEORGE GREY, Mr. AGLIONBY, Sir JAMES GRAHAM, and Mr. J. Evans. The right of appeal was supported by MT. COCKBURN, Sir ROBERT INGLIS, and MT. WORTLEY. But On a division, the clause was rejected, by 108 to 25. The bill was ordered to be read a third time on Tuesday next.


A fruitless attempt was made by Mr. EWART, on Thursday, to pass this bill through Committee. Colonel Snixamm said he would much rather support a bill to encourage the amusements of peg-top, foot-ball, and cricket ; and moved its postponement for six months. Mr. WYLD ascribed the opposition of the agricultural interest to its probable diminu- tion of the consumption of malt. After much desultory talk, Colonel Sibthorp's motion was defeated by 87 to 21; and the question for report- ing progress, without having made any advance in Committee, was carried by 68 to 40. MARRIAGES OF AFFINITY Btu.

This bill had another struggle in the Commons on Thursday, in Commit- tee. Mr. ROUNDELL Parma moved a clause, to the effect that no member of any church, contracting such marriage, shall be exempted from spiritual or ecclesiastical censure or punishment ; and that no sentence for restoration of conjugal rights shall be pronounced between parties to such marriage. After a short debate, the clause was negatived, by 145 to 103. Colonel Citerrawrox then moved that the act shall not extend to Ireland. This amendment was supported by Mr. Fox Maui.; who said the bill was repugnant to the Roman Catholics almost universally ; by Mr. Karma, who affirmed that the Protestants of Ireland are as unani- mous against the measure as the Roman Catholics ; by Mr. SADISM, Mr. Mosramm, Mr. M‘Gazoon, and Lord CASTLEREAGH. The clause was re- sisted by Mr. STUART Woarrxe, the Co'GoameN Manor; Mr. Aaarray, and Colonel RAWDON • and was rejected by 132 to 114. The bill then went through Committee.


The subject of railway communication in India was placed in a new light by Lord JOCELYN in moving for papers relating to the proposed railway between Madras and Arcot. Three lines of railway had been projected in India,—one from Calcutta towards the North-west, the second from Bombay towards the West, and the third from Madras towards the South-west Of these lines the Madras one is by far the most desira- ble, on account of the advantages it offers. Such a railway, while it would be free from many of those difficulties which other lines present, would open up some of the finest cotton-growing districts in the country. The traffic between Madras and Arcot is enormous, and is constantly in- creasing. The Company abandoned their original scheme some years ago; but on hearing that Government was giving its sanction to railways in India, they had renewed their application. The question now has between the railways which Government have already sanctioned, and the Madras line, which is much more deserving of encouragement than the other two.

Mr. Jama ris Wsoar assured Lord Jocelyn, that the East India Com- pany and the Government are perfectly disposed to grant the same privi- leges to Madras that they have granted to the other two Presidencies, as soon as they have obtained certain information, which they are now col- lecting. The case of Bengal and Bombay was simply a question of time, not of preference.

Mr. Hosts having condemned the dilatory conduct of Government, which had allowed several years to pass without doing anything in the matter, Sir Ionic- HOBHOUBE denied that the East India Company has been at all to blame with reference to the Madras Railway. The truth is, that that Railway Company ceased to exist at the very time when Government was about to give it substantial assistance. But though checked, Ministers had not stopped altogether; and he had not the slight- est doubt, if they lived to meet each other this time next year, they would have to congratulate themselves on the progress made in the Madras Railway. After a few concluding remarks from Lord XOCELYN, the motion was agreed to. THE Nsw norms OF Partmasomm

On the reading of the resolution relating to the grant for the new Houses of Parliament, Mr. Hurcs moved that the grant be 100,6101., in- stead of 103,6101. as proposed. The effect of this motion was to leave out the gum of 3,000/. from the vote ; and his object was to put an end for the present to the proceedings of the Committee of Taste, and prevent any further expenditure on pictures before they knew what would be the cost of completing the useful and substantial parts of the buildings. He had also another motion on the paper, with the view of carrying out his object; it was one for the appointment of a Select Committee to inquire into and examine the various reports, statements, and plans of the architect relative to the New Houses of Parliament, and also into the manner in which the works have been conducted, and the different esti- mates made, with a view to ascertain the cause of the great increase of charge above the estimate for the plan delivered by Mr. harry. When neither House affords sufficient accommodation, and the cost is running up to an in- definite amount, it is high time for Parliament to take steps to know ex- actly how matters stand, and prevent any further waste.

He went on to complain of the very great want of accommodation in the new House, of the contracted dimensions of the lobbies, and especially of the enormous increase in the expenditure above the original estimate. He did not wish to disparage Mr. Barry's eminent talents or genius' he would simply speak of him as a person who had contracted to make a House of Lords and a House of Commons for their accommodation, and had failed to carry out his promise. He complained of some remarks which Earl De Grey, a member of the Commission of the Fine Arta, had made in presenting a medal to Mr. Barry. "I have," said Lord De Grey, "read that your prede- cessor, Sir Christopher Wren, hved to see the completion of one of the great- est monuments of his genius, St. Paul's; and I trust the same good fortune may await you, and that you will see the completion of the magnificent building on which you are engaged. Sir Christopher Wren was engaged thirty- four years in the erection of St. Paul's, and you have not yet occupied half that time." Now, said Mr. Hume, would the House repose confidence in a Commissioner who did not look forward to the completion of the new edifice before the lapse of fourteen years? The noble Lord, after alluding to many purposes to which the building was to be devoted, went on to say—"Sir Christopher Wren had to deal with men who knew what they wan but that has not been the case with you. (Laughter.) Sir Christopher Wren's masters were few, yours are legion. I am sorry to say that the august as- sembly which has most to do with the erection of this magnificent struc- ture has a vast number of questions to ask, makes auggestions, and offers criticisms upon a subject with which it is not acquainted." Mr. Hume's ob- ject would be to find out the parties who had sanctioned the deviations which had ken place, and which had caused an increase of 707,000/. above the original estimate. Sir enemas WOOD hoped the House would not support the motion. They were not in possession of such information as could enable them to form an accurate judgment. A large portion of the extra expen- diture arose from circumstances over which Mr. Barry had no con- trol. The original estimate was 682,0001., and the whole cost beyond the original contract was 230,000/., all of which had been sanctioned by the Committee of the House. In addition, there was 183,0001. for the site of the river-wall, the foundations, and the sewer ; 200,000/. for warm- ing, ventilating, and additional fire-proofing ; 500,0001. for pictures and furniture ; and 32,000/. for approaches. He would not oppose the ap- pointment of a Committee of inquiry ; but such a Committee should not rip up all that had been done since 1836. That had been fully discussed by the Committee of 1844. Sir ROBERT PEEL opposed the motion. He entirely agreed with Earl De Grey in that address to Mr. Barry of which Mr. Hume complained. The House of Commons should not be so very sensitive regarding the free expression of opinion elsewhere.

Mr. Hume was anxious to discover who had suggested those alterations which had swelled the expenditure so much above the original estimate. Did not his honourable friend know that he was, himself, one of the main

;r.sfrs of alterations? (Loud laughter, and expressions of dissent from e itunse.) Here was the evidence of the Earl of Besborough, who occu- pied the situation of First Commissioner of Woods and Forests, when re- ferring to the original plan delivered by Mr. Barry : he showed that for the alterations in that plan, and the deviations and expense incurred in conse- quence of those deviations, Mr. Barry was not the person responsible. The first deviation from the plan of 1836 was for providing a house for the Ser- geant. at-Arms. When his Lordship was asked if he could state when that alteration took place, he said he thought it took place during the sitting of the Committee of the two Houses that altered the plan of 1836, and could speak positively to that, from a conversation he had with Mr. Hume. Sir Robert was not censuring the honourable gentleman ; but he was trying to convince him that he ought to be tolerant to different opinions on the part of other persons. Mr. RUME—" I am tolerant." ("Hear,.hear, !" and laughter.) Sir ROBERT Picap—"I am quite mire he is ; and a good right he has so to be." (Laughter.) Lord Besborough proceeded to explain that the plan was altered at the urgent instance of Mr. Hume. "I recollect," continued Lord Besborough, "Mr. Hume coming to me, and staling that it was absolutely-ne- cessary that the Sergeant-at-Arms, who had charge, and who had so great a responsibility with respect to the large building, should have accommoda- tion within it." Lord Granville Somerset then asked the Earl of Besborough, "In what character did Mr. Hume make that suggestion ?"—" Merely as a member of the Committee." "But what influence upon the conduct and proceedings of the department had that observation of Mr. flume? Did you accede to his representation ?"—" I assented to it with very great reluctance. (Great laughter.) I got the consent of the Treasury, but they objected very much." Here, then, were these two reluctant departments driven into an increased expenditure in consequence of the suggestion of the honourable Member, who now sought to curtail the present vote by a earn of 3,0001. Sir Robert then showed what had been done by the Commission of the Fine Arts; the proceedings of which he eulogized highly, as having done much to bring out talent and genius. To Mr. Herbert, an artist of the highest eminence, the Committee had intrusted the decoration of one apart- ment. He hoped that the House would consider that this country is in- terested in the promotion of the fine arts, and would consider that it would

not be creditable to this country, having this magnificent building, to permit

the opportunity to pass by without doing something toward them promotion. Mr. OSBORNE warned the House against being deluded by the "fine art" of the right honourable Baronet; who had never delivered a speech,

even when he sat on the Treasury bench supported by a majority, in which the question was so entirely evaded. There were two points in the right honourable Baronet's speech ; one of them, that the honourable Member for Montrose, in a moment of weak- ness, suggested that the Sergeant-at-Arms should have a house. That house had never been built to the present day ; and the topic so admirably brought forward by the right honourable Baronet had as much to do with the new Houses of Parliament as St. Paul's. The other point was, that a commission had been given to Mr. Herbert to decorate one of the apartments : but, al- though a Commissioner of the Fine Arts, the right honourable Baronet was puzzled to know which of the rooms it was that was to be decorated. The question before the House was not whether they were to destroy the Com- mission of Fine Arts, but whether they should suspend its operations, and have the money which is proposed to be laid out on monstrous frescoes and narrow-shouldered barons devoted to putting the House of Commons in a proper state. Let them finish the House first, and proceed with the Com- mission afterwards.

He quite agreed with Mr. Hume in his complaint of the want of accommo- dation in the new House. It is a very large building, but it is neither useful nor beautiful. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said that 200,0001.

has been spent in ventilation yet already the honourable Baronet the Mem- ber for Shoreham is complaining of the oppressive nature of the Division-

lobbies ; and that honourable Member is one of the Country party, who might be supposed to know what ,Tune air ought to be. (laughter.) There are now three systems of ventilation in operation : the House of Lords is

parboiled ; they are going to kill the whole Country party in the lobbies—

he believed that was the design of the Chancellor of the Exchequer ; and they have those enormous boilers, to which he had referred on a previous oc-

casion, for the purpose of boiling the Committee-rooms, (Continual laughter.) Lord JOHN ROWELL pointed out, that the result of the motion, if car- ried, would be the abolition of the Commission. Mr. HUICE wished to withdraw his motion, with a view to take the sense of the House on the question of appointing a Committee of inquiry. But Mr. OSBORNE objected to the withdrawal. The House divided ; and the motion was negatived, by 144 to 62. Mr. HUME then brought forward his motion for the appointment of a Select Committee ; and that also, after a brief discussion, was rejected, by 85 to 55.