39tbatedan firectefinfilin Patliamtnt.

1. ABOLITION OF SLAVERY. Sir RICHARD VYVYAN, on Thursday, presented a petition against the Government plan, from certain bankers, planters, merchants, and other petsons interested in the West India Colonies. He also presented a similar petition from the linen and woollen manufacturers, merchants, and others connected with the West Indian commerce of Bristol. Mr. GOULBURN presented a petiti n to the same effect, which had been recently agreed to at a meeting at the City of London Tavern, signed by 1,800 persons, principally bankers, merchants, and West India proprietors. Mr. BUXTON observed, that be bad upwards of forty petitions of a directly contrary tendency to present, signed by persons who could not bring themselves to believe That men and women could be legal chattels.

All these petitions having been laid, on the table, the question was put that the Speaker do leave the chair.

Sir RICHARD VYVYAN rose to address the House. He began by stating, that the question about to be discussed should be treated with patient forbearance and freedom from passion. Whatever might be die merits or demerits of the old system of representation, it at least possessed this advantage, that indirectly the Colonies were represented an the House of Commons. This, however, was no longer the case; the Colonies were deprived of their voice in that House ; and there could be DO longer any right in this country to refuse them the privilege of being governed entirely by the Colonial Legislatures. bir Richard proceeded at considerable length to enforce this proposi tion. Ile also maintained, that Parliament had no right to revoke the iharters which bad been granted to the several Colonies. These charters were irrevocable, indefeasible, and certainly could not have been recalled by the Sovereigns who granted them. Mr. Stanley admitted, that Parliament, having imposed upon itself a limitation of Ss power over the Colonies as respected internal taxation, was bound to respect that-restriction: but it was important for the Colonies to snow Mow far they might legislate for themselves, and whether their privileges were confined to internal taxation, or to police regulations ; or whether this question of slavery was or was not included within their privileges. He begged the House to recollect, that if the Colonies were of opinion that their chartered rights were interfered with, there was a precedent for calling in the assistanceof foreign powers to enable them to throw oft 'the yoke of the mother He then proceeded to remark upon the evil consequences which arise to the revenue,

manufactures, and foreign commerce of the country, by meddling with the cultivation of sugar. Three misstatements of importance had been made by Mr. Stanley in his opening speech on this subject.

One of them was, that by the law of Jamaica the evidence of a slave could not he taken but with the permission of the master or minister. On this point, he

(Sir It. Vyvyan) might be mistaken ; but if he had misheard Mr. Stanley,

others had misheard him also. Whatever might be the case in Antigua, such was not the fact in Jamaica. Mr. Stanley had also asserted, that a slave might

receive the infliction of thirty-nine lashes only for looking his master insolently

in the face. Such, indeed, was the evidence of Mr. Wildman ; but it had been contradicted by four witnesses; and all who were acquainted with the Colonies knew that the law was not as Mr. Wildman had laid it down. A third error was contained in the assertion, that if on proof of extreme cruelty a slave were manumitted, the value of that slave was to be paid to the master. The contrary was the truth ; for the master was subjected to a fine of 100/. and to the pay- ment of an annuity.

He defended the practice of the Colonies with regard to the admis- sion of slave evidence, the separation of families, and the marriage vow.

He denied that the House possessed sufficient information on the sub-

ject of slavery to enable it to legislate correctly thereupon : the West India body should have time allowed them to communicate with the

Colonies. It was distinctly admitted by the Colonial Legislatures, not only that the slaves had a right to emancipation, but that the time was come when measures should be adopted to secure to them the enjoy- ment of freedom. He concluded by referring to the present state of

St. Domingo, in proof of his assertion that the most fearful conse- quences would ensue from the adoption of the proposed measure ; which was dictated, he said, to Ministers and the House by the Anti-

Slavery Society ; and be expressed a confident hope, that in spite of the prejudices which had been excited, the British public and the House of Commons would not consent to such a destruction of pro- perty as it would occasion. He would offer no resolution ; nor would he oppose the motion that the Speaker do leave the chair.

Mr. STANLEY said that he would move, as before, that the House should go into Committee, where the objections to the proposed plan could be most properly discussed.

The Speaker having left the chair, the first resolution was put.

Mr. STANLEY again rose. Although he had detained the House for a considerable time, when he brought forward his plan on a former

night, still he thought it necessary to offer some remarks in reply to the strictures of Sir Richard Vyvyan. He complained that Sir Richard had introduced into his speech every species of topic likely to excite angry feelings, although, at its commencement, he had declared his in- tention of refraining from all such topics.

He adhered to what he had before said on the subject of interference, when he mentioned that Ile knew no limit to the interference of Parliament in the internal

regulations of the Colonies, save the limit that Parliament itself imposed. Sir Richard Vyvyan had contended that Parliament could not ,interfere with the chartered Colonies. Now he was absolutely astonished that such an asserticin

should have been made by him, when be granted the interference in one case— namely, in the abolition of the slave-trade. But then it was said, that was a case that did not refer to one isle or isles; it was a general, an imperial question ; it generally affected government, trade, and navigation ; and all were interested in the abolition of the slave-trade. Well, he thought that the present question was a general one ; and he was justified in doing so, if the numerous petitions that were ponring in from both sides had any meaning in them. Those peti- tions came from a multitude of persons ; and when Sir Richard characterized the question as being a local one, he durst not hazard himself to say all that he thought of such a very strange assertion. He considered that opinion upon the subject was general, and that it ought not to be resisted by Government, when it was so unequivocally expressed upon such a question as the present.

He admitted that the Colonial Legislatures had removed some of the impediments in the way of the meninges of slaves; but there was no general disposition to infuse into the minds of the slaves a proper idea of the solemnity of the marriage vow; nor to discourage licentiousness among them, which not only struck at the root of all morality, -but tended to diminish the slave population.

Following up how slightly the marriage ties were attended to, he had only to- mention the fact of the separation of families by the selling of slaves. If the present method of selling slaves were allowed, what sanctity could the slaves see in the marriage ties, when he had continually before his eyes the fear of being separated from his wife, Fin order that some civil compact should be fulfilled? So long as the slave could he sold for the (kitty contracted by the owner, so long. would all improvements with respect to marriage be of little avail. Sir Richard Vyvyan h..d afterwards attacked his proposition with respect to punishment. Whenever Ile stated any thing incorrectly—whenever he was mistaken—he was the first to confess his error, and he was most willing to be set right. He al- lowed that he was mistaken in what he hail latelysaid about thelaw of Jamaica ; for he found that he had confounded it with that of Dominica. The proceeds of the slave, when sold in consequence of too severe punishment, did not go to the master. However, what he had said of punishment and of the thirty .nine lashes was supported by the evidence of an old planter before the Committee of Inquiry. By the law of Jamaica, wanton punishment on the part of the owner was liable to be punished by that law. But what was the use of that law, if its enact- ments were devoid of the executory principle? In fact, it was little better than so much waste paper. Then again, with regard to slave evidence. in St. Kitts, Nevis, and Bermuda, the slave could not give evidence where his owner or any of his family were directly or indirectly concerned. He would now come to the slave law of Jamaica, upon which so much stress had been laid. How stood the law of Jamaica? Sir Richard Vyvyan stated that a slave's evidence 'MIS good against the life of a Black man, but that it was not good when the property of a White man was concerned ; and that in civil causes his evidence was not good either a7ainst the Black or White man. Se that what he formerly said was true—that the slave's evidence was good against the life of the Black man, but not good when property was in question. !Vlore- over the evidence was good for nothing unless it was supported by the evidence of a second person. It was true that when a slave was forfeited, the price did not go to the master : but there was'great difficulty in proving atrocious punish- ment; ad even if the slave did prove it, and thus got rid of one mas- ter, he was only transferred to another. He thought that the House,

after all that they had heard respecting the proceedings of ti e Colonial Legislatures, must see the necessity of interfering in order to procure the abolition of slavery. The matter could not be arrant d by nego- tiation..

No negotiation could take place between two parties, when one would offer no improvement or modification, and was only authorized to object at d to reject. When be first came into the office he now filled, he felt it his duty to converse with the gentlemen who formed the West India Deputaion - and I e told them that the Government thought it their duty to come to proceedings end arrange- ments in concurrence with the Deputation, that would lead to the extinction of slavery. The Deputation were told that ultimate extinction mu, t form the basis of any plan proposed by the Government. The Deputatiou etnfessed they had no power.

Four individual members of the Deputation, however, had proposed a plan to him, which they thought would be satisfactory.

The proposal was, that a grant should be made to the Colonists of 44,000,000/. sterling; that the Colonial proprietors should enjoy all existing rights over the slaves for a period of one-and. forty years (" Rear, hear ! " an Ito/liter)and that the one-and-forty years was to be estimated from the time the a4,000,4001. could be paid out of the wages of the slaves, with 4 per cent. interest, and 1 per cent. sinking-fund. (Renewed laughter.) He imagined that the House would not think him possessed of too much modesty because he did not venture to pro- pose such a plan as that for its consideration.

Among the objections to the Government plan deserving attention, was one in which both parties agreed— The West India body complained that they should have to pay interest on the money to be advanced to them ; while_those persons who advocated the imme- diate and unconditional emancipation of the slave, thought it hard that the Ne- gro should have to pay for his ultimate freedom. He had stated that there were only three ways in winch the money to be advanced could be repaid,—either out of the revenue, out of the labour of the slave, or out of the resources of the Colonies. To the last of these he had stated that it was impossible to agree. They bad, therefore, proposed that the wages to be earned by the Negro, during one fourth of his time, should be set aside, in order to repay the advances made by the Government, and to grant a remuneration to the proprietor for the loss which he would sustain by emancipation; and they had proposed that the proprietor should pay interest for the money advanced to him. There was one other resource; which was, to throw the fifteen million to be advanced on the resources of the country. He admitted that there was a well-founded objection to obliging the planters to pay interest on thig money, while they found all the necessaries which the slave requires; and, on the other hand, it appeared but reasonable that the slave should have the free use of his spare time. It was impossible not to feel the force of those objections ; and if both parties would concur, the Government had no objection that, instead of the payment of interest, a small additional duty should be laid on Colonial produce; and they were ready to recommend that plan to Parliament. The Planter would then not have to pay any interest. They were likewise willing that the Negro Should lay aside no part of the money which he might earn during his spare time. But they proposed, that if the Negro should, by the produce of his labour, save any money, he should then have it bia power to shorten the period during which he was to continue in the service of his master, when he was able to compensate his master for the remainder of his time which WU to run, and to prove himself of industrious and moral habits.

In order to meet the additional charge which the adoption of this alteration would lay upon the revenue of the country, be proposed to increase the duty on sugar from 24s. to 27s. per hundredweight ; this be thought, would not have the effect of diminishing consumption, as he found that the reduction of the duty from 27s. to 24s. bad not caused a larger qbantity to be consumed. There were details of the plan which he hoped would be filled up by the Colonial Legislatures; who, when they found it hopeless to prevent the freedom of the Negroes, would perhaps consult their own interest and the welfare of the empire by enacting such local regulations as would be applicable to the new state of things.

Colonel HAY was of opinion that there was something in the cha- racter of the slaves which would prevent them from ever doing any labour in the Sugar Colonies ordese compelled to do so. He denied that the plan would work; because the holder of a small body of slaves would have no remuneration for his loss.

Is Barbadoes, where there were 5,000 proprietors and 80,000 slaves, there were only 1,500 of the proprietors who had land. She rest had merely one, two, or three slaves; and he would ask how they could be remunerated? He had been closely connected with the Island of Barbadoes in particular, for a long period—extending up to the year 18132—and had never known riey instances of cruelty practised on the Negroes.

In Barbadoes there was no want of moral orreligious. instruction among the slaves.

During.one of the late tremendous hurricanes on that island, all the schools, amongst other houses, had been destroyed ; but such was the anxiety on all parts to have no interruption in the education of the children generally, that before any other house Whatever was rebuilt, all the schools were in full operation be- fore the arrival of Lord Mulgrave, by means of the very liberal subscriptions which were entered into; Sir James Lyon, the former Governor, himself sub- seribiog the sum of 5001. towards the expense.

He stood up for no particular interest, but he believed that the country at large would suffer from the adoption of the proposals of Government.

Mr. MAXWELL STEWART said, that Mr. Stanley had shown himself to be more of a furious partisan than an impartial mediator on the sub- ject of emancipating the Negroes. He maintained that the colonists had been grossly calumniated in this country ; and it was necessary that the House should be put in possession of the contradictions of the calumnies which had been so industriously circulated. In Demerara, the moral condition of the slaves had been greatly improved during the last forty years. Slave evidence was admissible in all the Colonies, and that fact was the A B C of colonial information. In Demerara, where cotton and coffee plantations had been cenverted into sugar lands, the slave population had increased nine per cent. in six years. As to the plan, it neither consulted the interest of the planter nor the slave.

The Negroes would receive no immediate benefit from it. The apprentice, at the end of twelve years, would still be left a dead-weight on the Planters; and there was a party in England which would allow the Planters to have no quiet while a slave remained alive. He would be, at the end of his apprenticeship, a burden on the property, and the proprietor would be even then the victim of the Outcry against Slaver .a It was expected that the slave would have oaotives for toil iii the as tificial excitements of civilization; but those who etliculated thus knew nothing of the slaves. He could not comprehend the motives ef civilized inan admitted the force and admired the operation.

He referred to the ex,ample of St. Domingo to prove this assertion.

In 1791, that was a flourishing industrious island ; now it was one wide scene of licentiousness, idleness, and poverty. In 1791, the crops were valued at six

millions sterling ; in 1825, when the population had increased by 400,000, the value of the crops was not more than 420,0001. At the same time, the interest of money was 75 per cent., and the best land in the island might be had itt two and a half years' purchase.

He knew the course which he was pursuing was unpopular, but he would not on that account shrink from the performance of his duty.

Mr. BUXTON had listened with attention to the arguments of the members who had spoken, and was highly gratified to find that none had avowedly opposed the emancipation of the Negro. The evidence in favour of emancipation had largely accumulated of late years. It was true that the quantity of sugar raised in St. Domingo had mate-. rially diminished ; but the quantity of human life had increased s and the comforts of the people had been materially promoted. It bad been. urged against him, that he was not formerly so ardent in the cause of emancipation,—that he did not go so far as he did at present : Vat new information had lately been obtained. He did not know then, as be did now, that all attempts at gradual emancipation were wild and, visionary. He was not aware of the fact of the depopulation of the islands consequent upon sugar culture. Certain ameliorations, too, had been promised, which had not been put in practice. The flogging of women wits to have been abolished, but it was not abolished.

In those days there was not the same opposition to the moral and religious education of the Negroes. In those days there were no Church Colouial Unions. In those days there were no instances of Negroes being tried, con- victed, and punished, fur no other offence than that of worshipping God after the dictates of their own consciences. There were no instances of Magistrates; so far from attempting to suppress riots, assisting in pulling down chapels with their own hands. There were then no instances of Alissionaries being hunted for their lives, or of their disappointed hunters wreaking their vengeance by tarring and feathering innocent Childhood. These things were not then-known end understood, or the people of England would doubtless have raised their voice as loudly and as enegetically as they had now done.

It had been denied by some that flogging was still practised.; but he would relate the case of Henry Williams, a Negro, who during the in.. surrection in Jamaica had distinguished himself by his fidelity to his master and the care which he took of his property.

Mr. Betty's overseer, who had no other fault to find with him, said; that ifbe went to chapel, he should be sent to Rodney Hall Workhouse—a dreadful punishment. Henry Williams went to chapel ; he was accordingly sent to Rod- ney Hall Prison, and flogged. A female slave dared to sigh. Mi. Betty imme- diately cried, " hand out that lady !"—and she was laid down, and flogged-, Williams was punished so severely, that his hack was a mass of corruption. This was all admitted evidence, not mere statement. Complaint was made to Sir George Murray, a most amiable and estimable man : -Sir George, withpro- per indignation, immediately called on Mr. Betty to account for his conduct; but he refused to answer the Interrogatories. He did not deny having the- k. male laid on the ground and flogge-1 ; but he contended, that he had e right se to do, and that he did not exceed the legal punishment of thirty-nine lashes. If, contended this man, the Colonial Secretary thought it contrary to law, he was ready to submit the case to a Jury of twelve honest Planters, who would con- vince him that he had not exceeded the undoubted right of a West Indian over- seer. And when the case was brought home, it was found that this doctrine was correct in law ; and he held in his hand an extract from Lord Goderich's dispatch, in which he said, there is no illegality in the proceeding of M. Betty —the only complaint that can be made against him is, that he has exprciaed legal powers in an illegal manner.

He trusted that nothing would induce Ministers to postpone the set, tlement of this question beyond the present session. No human forer right could tell what might be the consequences of delay. He would state the course which lie intended to pursue in relation to the plan proposed by Mr. Stanley, Though he opposed parts of it, yet he thought some of the propositiona made that night were great amendments, and would prove very satisfactory to the friends of emancipation. If the opposition were successful, it was probable they would lose the benefits of this measure altogether ; and so sure as that was the case, so then would life and property be insecure in the Colonies, as had Already been stated in a report signed by Mr. Burge and other West India agents. Be saw no alternative to the rejection of this measure but the precipitation ef

emancipation by bloodshed and violence. He wished one verbal alteration in the part which spoke of the proprietors of slaves: he would not recognize eve*

in words a property in man. Though he should be sorry to vote against an amendment embracing his own principles, yet he was hound to consult, in the first place, the welfare of the Negro; and a regard fur his interest compelled him to support the proposition of Mr. Stanley.

MT. WARD and Ma. GLADSTONE rose together; but although the call was general for the latter, Mr. Ward persisted. He supported the

plan of Government, and illustrated the probability of its succeeding by

a reference to Spanish America. In Guatemala, the Colonial produce was very considerable, yet there was no slave labour. One hundred and fifty free labourers in Guatemala produced twice the quantity of Rigel' that was produced by 150 slaves in Cuba. In Cuba, out of apopulatton of 750,000, only 260,000 were slaves ; whereas in our Colonies only one out of every twelve or fifteen was free. To what did Cuba owe the advantages which it possessed ? To the Spanish Colonial Code.. That code secured every slave on his entrance into bondage

four special rights. The first was the right of changing masters; the second the right of marriage ; the third the right of acquiring and holding property; the fourth the right of employing that property in the redemption either of their wives, their children, or themselves. A Spanish Alcade or District Magistrate was the sole judge of the disputes between the slaves and their employers. All these regulations were found highly beneficial in Cuba; and if beneficial in Coba, which grew a fifth of the whole sugar produced, why should they not be bene- ficial in islands which differed front Cuba only in this, that Cuba was inaikr Spanish laws, and they were under English laws? If a general convulsion.were

to take place to-morrow in the West Indies, he believed that Cuba, M cow- quence of the conduct pursued by the Planters towards the slaves, would eesepe the ruin.

He trusted that the proposed plan would be adopted, and that Ole Planters would cooperate in carrying it into effect.

Mr. GODSON moved that the Chairman should report progress and ask leave to sit again.

Lord ALTHORP acquiesced in the proposal for adjoorment-

His statement of the intentions of his Majesty's Government respectipiso

Bank Charter stood for Friday ; but he would take the chance of there being time afterwards for the prosecution of the present debate. The House then adjourned, at half past twelve.

The adjourned debate was resumed last night.

Mr. Gonsos deniedeihe right of Parliament to supersede the autho- rity of the Local Assemblies of the Colonies, and argued in favour of this point at considerable length. He maintained that slaves were property, in the strictest sense of the word. He considered the plan of Government impracticable ; it would require four thousand stipendary magistrates to carry it into effect. He thought that the Colonists were entitled to a larger compensation than Mr. Stanley proposed to award them. He concluded by moving resolutions to the following effect :— namely, to grant immediate emancipation to the Negro to pay twenty millions us a compensation to the Colonists, and to advance them ten millions on the security of their property.

Mr. TANCRED approved of the Government plan, and would support Mr. Stanley's resolutions.

Mr. BUCKINGHAM proposed four resolutions ; to this effect,—that after the 21st August 18:34, slavery should cease throughout the British dominions ; that a preventive police should be established ; and that compensation should be awarded to the planter for any actual loss which could be proved to have been sustained by the substitution of free for slave labour.

Colonel DAVIS thought there would be great danger and difficulty in adopting Mr. Buckingham's plan. He disapproved also of many parts of the Government plan, and thought Lord Howick's objections to them unanswerable.

Mr. O'CONNELL moved that the debate be adjourned to Monday next. This was agreed to, and the House broke up at a quarter past one.

Iii the House of Lords, on Thursday, the Duke of WELLINGTON presented a petition from the Planters and proprietors of the island of Dominica; which, he said, deserved serious consideration.

The petition had been placed in his hands last session, but at his suggestion its presentation had been postponed in consequence of the inquiry then in pro- gress. It had recently been returned to him, and a desire expressed by the pe- titioners that he should present it. These parties stated the losses they would suffer by the measures intended to be pursued. They also mentioned, that they were, for the most part, the descendants of the original settlers of that colony, which was ceded to England at the peace of Paris; and that others amongst them had since that period purchased property in the island from the Crown. They now demanded from their Lordships protection for their properties thus acquired ; or they were willing to cede their estates to his Majesty on receiving a valuable consideration. This offer was worthy of consideration ; as his Ma- jesty's Ministers could in this colony try an experiment, which, if successful, night be extended to others in which the Crown had no possessions.

Lord SUFFIELD remarked, that doubtless the Dominica petitioners would have no more objection to take the value of their slaves from Ministers than the possessor of a stolen horse would have to give him up upon being paid for him.

Lord BERE:SFORD wished to know how the noble lord could call it stolen property. Who had stolen it Lord SUFFIELD replied, that the question was not who had stolen it, but in whose possession the stolen property was.

The Duke of WELLINGTON observed, that many acts of Parliament had acknowledged the property in question, What he was prepared to contend was, that the planters had as much right to the property ad.. verted to, as their Lordships had to their estates. If the Lord Chan- cellor were applied to on a question of West India property to-morrow, he must decide it as such. By the law of the land, no Englishman could be deprived of his property unless by an act of Parliament grant- ing him compensation.

Lord SUFFIELD rejoined that no man could be deprived of his natu- ral rights by an act of Parliament.

2. THE BANK CHARTER. Last night, the House having gone into Committee on the Bank Charter, Lord ALTHORP unfolded the plan of Government for the renewal of the Charter. On former occasions, it had been customary for the Chancellor of the Exchequer to move resolutions in consequence of a previous application from the Bank. But as be considered it a mere matter of form, he thought that there.was no occasion to adhere to the previous practice ; and preferred making the proposition to the House himself, instead of waiting for any suggestion from the Bank.

With regard to the principles upon which banking here and elsewhere must be conducted, in order to be conducted properly, it was almost unnecessary to observe, that the first principle must be the convertibility, of the paper issued into money ; indeed, that was the only principle on which you could pretend to say that paper ought to have value as a medium of exchange; and any departure from that principle must have the very worst effect upon the manufacturing, the commercial, and the agricultural property of the country. That must be one of the points on which it would be incumbent, both upon the House and upon the public, that they should closely attend. The next principle of impor • tance was now to secure the solvency of the bank which issued the circulating medium. It would require no argument to prove that these were two points which it would be necessary for the House to keep constantly within its consi- deration. Ile was quite sure that the House would be strongly impressed with the necessity of securing the convertibility of the paper currency of the coun- try, and that every person who heard him would agree that the solvency of the bank which issued the paper currency must be highly advantageous to the country.

It was also highly desirable to prevent fluctuation in the amount of the circulating medium.

It was impossible, however, in any circulating medium to prevent altogether fluctuation of value ; the only object which any reasonable Government could hope to obtain was, the adoption of such a system as would render the fluctua- tion as small as possible. The amount of circulation must depend on the wants of the country- but in case of any increase in the circulating medium, so as to produce a depreciation of it, the only sure and safe remedy that could be applied to it was the effect of the foreign exchanges on the country. So long as you have a complete convertibility into bullion, the foreign exchanges will always rectify any depreciation by the drain of bullion which they will occasion, and by the consequent change which that drain will effect in the currency • it was therefore most desirable that in any arrangement which might take place, there should be as little interruption as possible given to the effect of the foreign exchanges on the monetary concerns of the country. At Present, the Bank of England was the point on which all the cit.. culation of the country ultimately turned.

It was by the Bank of England that bullion was collected ; and whenever the foreign exchanges turned against us, so as to make it the interest of persons to

send bullion abroad, the place to which they resorted was always the Bank ; and

thus the circulation here was also affected. The first question, then, for the House to decide would be, whether it was more desirable that the management

of the circulating medium of the country should be conducted by a single body as bankers of issue, or by a competition of different banks or bankers ? It.ap- peered to him, upon looking into this question, that there were advantages, un- doubtedly, in both systems. It was, therefore, necessary to consider the case as related to each system. If must be the interest of banks thus competing with eacli other, assuming them to be equally secure as to their solvency, to issue

each as much paper circulation as they could. They would be a check one upon the other as to the amount issued by each. It was, therefore, positively clear that no one of these banks could issue more than its due proportion of the cir- culation wanted. For if there should be a state of things in which there should rise up a great demand fur accommodation, though it might be in the power of each to increase the amount of circulation, it would not be in the power of any of them to have more than his due proportion of the amount of that increase; curl when, again, in consequence of a depreciation of the currency, a failure of credit takes place, in consequence of the turn of the exchanges against us, each bank, looking to its own interests, would be under the necessity of contracting its issues, and 6113 would produce a sudden contraction of all the currency of

the country. This was a danger which ought to be guarded against, for you would kora such a competition produce a greater fluctuation than you would by a single well-regulated bank. There was another point on which a single bank having the control of a large part of the circulation of the country might be of advantage, and that was the assurance that in times of distress it could give assistance to the commerce of the country. In times of panic the exchanges turn in favour of this country. There was no objection on such occasions to the Bank's increasing its accommodation ; but if there should be many banks, no one of them would dare to come forward from fear of the competition of its rivals.

He was aware that an immense power would thus be lodged in the bands of a single bank ; and it was necessary to have a check upon such an establishment, to prevent its being abused. Could such a check be devised, he was inclined to think that one bank of issue was preferable to a number of them.

He would now comae to the consideration of what the check should be. There were several modes of effecting this check. He spoke now of a bank of issue, not as a commercial body, or one in the hands of Government. The question was, whether this should be in the hands of persons not responsible for their acts, or in those of Government, and whether the profits should belong to the Govern- ment, or be left to the company. The advantages of having the Bank altoge- ther in the hands of Government instead of a private company, would be greater responsibility, and in that respect greater security to the public, and the whole of the profit ; but in his opinion these were snore than counterbalanced by the political evils which would follow from having the Bank wholly in the hands of Government. He thought that the State, having thus the circulation of the country in its own hands, would be productive of great mischief. Government

would have a constant temptation to abuse this additional power : besides, it would be impossible in times of commercial distress that Government could give the same assistance that might be afforded by a banking company. But even

supposing that Government could give assistance under such circumstances, the power which it would thus acquire would be so enormous as might be destruc- tive of the constitution of the country. On the other hand, if the Bank were to be tied down by fixed rules, which might prevent it from making such ad- vances, he apprehended that in the endeavour to avoid one evil they would fall

into a greater ; for it would then be impossible to give assistance when it might be most required : and, indeed, on the principle of banking, it would be impos- sible to foresee, and of course to provide for, all the cases in which the aid of a bank to the public might be required. He thought, therefore, that under these circumstances, it would be better to throw aside the notion of having a bank under the entire management of the Government.

Another check upon a single bank would be, to give Government a direct control over its affairs : but upon reference to former periods— to 1797, 1822, and 1825—when the Government was cognizant of the proceedings of the Bank, he was not aware that much good had re- sulted from it. In some respects the Government was as much to blame as the Bank for the disasters of those periods. The only re- maining check was publicity, which, though not a perfect check, would, he thought, be found a sufficient one for all essential purposes. Pub- licity would enable the Government and the country to judge how far the Bank adhered to the principle on which it professed to manage its affairs,—namely, to keep one third of bullion in proportion to their liabilities ; to allow the public to act on the currency, and not to force it by any artificial means ; toallow the circulation gradually to diminish as the exchanges were against us and the drain of bullion became great, and when the exchanges turned in our favour, and the bullion came back, to let the circulation gradually expand in proportion.

He would propose to continue the monopoly to the Bank of England as far as regarded the Metropolis,—that

olis,—that was that no bank with more than six partners should be allowed to issue notes in London, or within sixty-five miles of it. He laid no great stress on the distance, for he thought that a smaller distance would do just as well; but in the communications which he had with the Bank on this subject, they seemed to lily some stress on the same distance being continued; and as the question was one in which the public were not much interested, he would allow it to remain as it was—the public could not lose any thing by it Next, as to the duration of the Charter— He certainly felt it not desirable to tie up the Government and the country, such a length of time as that for which Bank charters had heretofore been re- newed, while at the same time he admitted the inconvenience of again setting the question afloat too early. He would therefore propose that the Charter should be renewed for a period of twenty-one years ; but subject to this contin- gency—that if at the end of ten years, Government should think proper to alter the system, it should have the power to give a year's notice to the Bank, and, if the Government so desired, the Charter would expire at the end of the eleventh year. Thus, Government would have the opportunity of making a change, if such were considered desirable; while the Bank would have the certainty of not being subject to any change for at least eleven years. With respect to the publicity of accounts, he proposed that a weelily return should be made to the Treasury of the amount of bills and notes in circulation, and also of deposits ; and that the average of such issues and deposits should be published quarterly. He considered that there ought to be no interference on the part of Government to pre- vent bullion going out of the country ; but he thought it would be ex- pedient, and not hazardous, to secure Country /kilo against internal drains of gold. .1leProposed therefore to nitrite Bank d England paper a legal tender In every 'place except at the Bank of England itself, or its Branch Banks. ( Cries of ' Hear, hear I" from severat quarters.) He knew it might be objected that this was an important change in our system ' • but, looking at the rapid commu- nication between all parts Of the country andLondon, he could not see that this change Would be attended with any danger : but when he saw the effects that bad been produced by sudden panics, he thought that this part of the plan would be productive of mirth good. In ordinary times, it would probably be productive of no effect one way or the other ; but in times of difficulty or pres.- owe, its advantages would be felt in every part of the country.

If we were about to have an issue of one-pound notes, he agreed that this measure would have the effect of driving gold out of the country, as the sovereign and one-pound note could not circulate to- gether ; but there was no fear that the sovereign Would.be driven out by larger notes. It was possible that the country bankers would be- come less careful in the amount of their issues, in consequence of the operation of this part of his proposal ; but he thought nevertheless that the advantages of the [change, would counterbalance this incon- venience.

The next change which he should propose applied not only to the Baok of England, but to all the commerce of the country. It would be an advantage to the Bank that it should have the power of checking the circulation by other means than by refusing to discount, which they had donewhen the value of money was greater than the interest allowed by law. He proposed therefore to make a change to a certain extent, in the usury laws, by exempting all bills that had not more than three months to run from the operation of those laws.

He was aware that strong objections existed to the entire repeal of the usury laws ; but no person need be alarmed at the very partial re- peal which he now proposed.

He would now call the attention of the House to the terms of what he might call the bargain made with theB ank by the Government.

And first, he would state that the whole of the debtdue from the country to the Bank was 14,600,000/. Now, it was evident that it was not necessary that 'the whole of that sum should be locked up to give security to the country with relation to the Bank. It never was contemplated that the whole of that capital should be taken as a security to the public ; and he had no apprehension in di- minishing its amount by paying back a part of it to the Bank : at the same time, credit was of such a nature that they should be very cautious in doing any thing which might tend to impair it in public opinion. He would not, 'therefore, propose to reduce the debt much ; but it was necessary that it should 'be reduced something, because it bad the effect of making the bargain with the Bank dearer to the Government than it otherwise would be. The Bank com- plained that they lost I per cent. upon the whole amount of the debt due by the Government. He did not think the loss was so much ; but it was certain that it was some loss; - and in all the transactions with the Government, they charged it as a loss for which the public ought to pay. Another point was, that if the interest of money should rise to be much higher than at present, it would give the Bank an advantage to have the claim for so large an amount ; but there would be much less difficulty in arranging part of it now, when the interest of 'money was low. He proposed to pay the Bank 25 per cent, of their debt. This "would leave the debt of the Government to them about 11,000,000/., and he was sure no one would say that that was not ample security to the public. In this arrangement there was on evident and important benefit to the Bank proprietors, and be might in justice demand frmo them for the public a good sum for it.

The Bank Directors had -consented to pay for their advantage 120,00/. per annum ; which was to be deducted from the amount now

paid them for the management of the public Debt and Accounts. He knew that be might have demanded a larger sum, but he thought that the public would have no reason to be dissatisfied with this. This amount, if spread over twenty-one years, would give the public 2,50000; which was much more than had been paid for any previous renewal of the Charter. He would now come to another, and a most important part, which related to the Banking system of the country generally.

He proposed that every banking company of more than six partners should he a joint stock company, such company to be established by charter. In this he did not mean to interfere with the formation of such companies; but he thought it essential to the commercial welfare of the country that such banks should be established on sound principles. It was not intended that this should -apply to any banks already in existence, but be would give to such banks the option of applying for a charter within a time to be limited. The chartered banks would be subject to certain regulations, but none which wculd not be found advantageous to themselves as well as to the country. He would not pro- pose that joint stock banks should lie blinks of issue. It was well known that these joint stock banks were of two sorts—some issued their own notes, and others transacted their business in the notes of the Bank of England. But banks were prevented from issuing notes payable in London for has than :50/. In the plan he proposed, joint stock banks might exist within the sixty-five niiles if they used the paper of the Bank of England. He would also propose that Government should have the power of refusing the grant of charters to -companies applying for them. This, for obvious reasons, was necessary, as it would lead to mischief if all who thought proper to apply for such charters were to get them as a matter of course. The conditions on which he proposed that Government should grant charters to joint stock banks were the following. First, that the partners should have half of their subscribed capital paid up, And deposited either in the Government Funds or some equally good securities. He further proposed that the partners in those joint stock banks should be liable to an unlimited responsibility. He thought that it was but right that where those joint stock banks would have the power of issuing their own notes, they should be liable to unlimited responsibility. He further proposed that the Cor- poration of the Bank, as such, should not hold any shares in it. He understood -that in joint stock concerns hitherto such a mode had been resorted to for the the purpose of multiplying the shares, and it was to meet it that this condition was intended. He lastly proposed that the accounts of the bank should be yearly audited and published.

With regard to joint stock banks which did not issue their own notes,

He proposed as the conditions on which charters should be granted to them, that one quarter of their subscribed capital, instead of one half as required in the instance of joint stock banks issuing notes, should be paid up and deposited as before; that their shares should not be less than 1001. each; and that the partners is such banks should be only liable to a responsibility to the amount of their shares. He also proposed that the corporations of those banks should not, as such, hold any shares in those banks. It would be seen from these pro- positions that he proposed to give great advantages to banks not issuing notes over those that issued their own notes.

It was very desirable, that some more correct means than at present exiggcl, should be.devised for ascertaining the' amount of circulation of c9Rntr7 Bank Pates, He proposed that Country Banks, instead of having the option, as now enjoyed by the Bank of England, of making a composition for the stamp-duty payable on the gross amount of their notes issued, should be compelled to pay 7s. per cent. stamp-duty upon the notes which they issued. A distinguishing feature of this plan was, that it would enable the Government to know at all tunes the exact amount of country bankers notes in circulation. He thought that no real or substantial evil could happen in the case of any country banker from such an arrangement ; and, further, he was of opinion that it was desirable to know, not only the amount of each country banker's paper in circulation, but also the amount of his general assets to meet the demands upon him. He did not by any means desire to expose the affairs of individual bankers; for though he though. t it desirable to make the affairs of joint stock banks known to the public,.he.di.d not consider it expedient to extend the principle to the .case of nrivate why', thi:ds keeping banks, who, with every certainty of ultimate selvency,. might nevertheless be ruined by an exposure of their affairs under certain peculiar cir- cumstances. He proposed that a statement of the accounts of each individual bank, should be sent up to London as a sti ictly confidential paper, which was net to be published in a separate form ; but, the accounts being added together, the total result would be given to the public periodically. Ile should observe that the country banker could state the whole of his available assets. [Sir Ho- bert Peel asked, whether the statement would include landed property ?j As to that point., landed .estates, although not immediately convertiblu . tended cer- tainly to an increase of security for the ultimate solvency of the banker ; and on that ground it might be matter for consideration whether the description of pro- perty referred to should not be included in the account. These were the propo- sitions u Idyll he felt called on to submit to the Committee.

The tendency of his propositions was certainly to extend the issue of Bank of England paper. I-Te certainly did wish that the tendency of the present measure should be, as he doubted not it would be found, to extend tbeissue of Bank of England paper. Further, he was ready to admit, that he did think it would be a sitter and more secure principle, if a banking system were now for the first time to be esta- blished, to have only one bank of issue ; but in the present state of things that was impracticable, and the utmost extent to which any prudent man could be induced to go, consisted in encouraging—without compulsory measures, which he had not used—the establishment of banks which should not issue their own Pal'ert

He concluded by informing the House, that he did not mean to call for any vote on the subject on the present occasion ; and by moving a series of resolutions, the substance of which is embodied in his speech.

Mr. BARING said that the country bankers would at once perceive that Lord Althorp's plan would get rid of a large proportion of their notes, and substitute Bank of England notes for them. At this ex- treme end of the session, it was impossible to come to a decision on a plan which affected the whole circulation of the country. Lord Althorp was therefore right in not calling for a vote on his resolutions. Ile thought that the Bank had got the better of the bargain which had been struck.

tie saw no objection to paying off one fourth part of the public debt to the Bank. if it should he an object to the Bank to receive it. He had no apprehen- sion of any undue diminution of the capital of the Bank fro7o the adoption of this plan. From the sum of -...Mq,(100/. at present paid to the Bank for the ma- nagement of the public Debt, 1-20:0not. was to be annually deduemd ; but the nokie ii hi not, say NI; hailer this deduction was made in coate;im.mee of the

sum ;11Imved mm mu the till Charter being too great, or as a compensation for

gro,: In,A. a new Charter. If the orieinal slim was too much, tiny nothing

for the ne'v Charter. What Iva; the compensation given by the 1.1.ml: ibr the be..t Charter? Tile ihink Emt money to the Government at 3 per cent. in-

stead of 5 per cent., the market rate time; consequently it submitted to an annual loss of 2 per cent. on 14,000,0011!., the amount of its-rapital loam- I to Government. This difference of 2 per cent., whieh ;mounted to .I*1,000/. or 290,000/., was a bonus to the public. What was the value of money now in the City ? Not 3 per cent.; say between 2 and 2:1- per cent. It would seem from this, that, in order to preserve the same proportion of compensation as formerly, the Bank should now lend its capital at 1 per cent.

Ile took it for granted that Government would in future invest the public balances, hitherto permitted to remain in the Bank coffers, to the best advantage.

On the great subject of the Bank itself, experience had proved that the general system was judicious. Besides, it had accommodated itself to all the habits of the monied !merest in the country; so that even if the system were not of the best description, a change would be far from desirable. In this he cordially con- curred with the sentiments of the noble lord, and rejoiced to hear him admit that, with reference to the banking system at least, change for the sake of change was not to be desired. All the banks of Europe had modelled themselves on the prin- ciple of the Bank of England, will the exception of the Bank of Hamburgh ; the same course was taken by the American banks ; so that it would seem, not only on grounds of reason, but from the experience of the world, that the system could not be improved. He wholly disapproved of the establishnient of rival banka, which could only lead to useless and mischievous competition.

As regarded the plan for regulating country banking, he thought that the House ought to wait for the opinions of the persons principally in- terested in that part of the subject. There were strong objeettions to giving publicity to the accounts of the Bank of England.

He was quite sure that in times of difficulty, the means of the Bank would be limited, and its operations would he cramped, by its being under the necessity of putting :a an appearance to the country for the purpose of masking it opera- tions, lie was aware that the opinions given before the Comm ittee were va- rious upon that point. It appeared to him, that it would be important for the Hou:,e um know what the Bank as a body thought upon time subject. He was of opinion that the publicity of the accounts of the Bank would, in times of diffi- culty, materially cramp its operations; and further, that it would create an alarm amongst the public where there were no real grounds for alarm.

Mr. Baring dwelt at considerable length on the injurious conse- quences,.not merely to the Bank, but to the country at large, which would arise from a publication of the Bank accounts.

lie would suggest this change in that part of the noble lord's arrangement,—

that the averages to be published at the end of the quarter should not be averages made up to that time, but to the middle of the quarter ; for if they should made up just before the payment of the Dividends, they would exhibit a small amount of notes in circulation; and if made up just after the payment of the Dividends, they would exhibit a large amount of notes in circulation. He therefore thought, that by taking the averages up to the six weeks previous to the end of the quarter, they would have a greater chance of having a fair and correct return on the subject.

He approved of making Bank of England notes a legal tender, and had considerable doubts as to whether the payment in specie should not be limited to the Bank in London alone.

lie supposed that Lord Althorp only intended that those Branch Banks should

be liable to pay in specie for the amount of paper issued by themselves. It was pro- posed by the noble lord, that at the end of ten years the Government should have the power of giving notice to the Bank that its charter was to expire. Was that 'power to be reciprocal on the part of the Bank as well as on the mut of the Governmeat ? It was proposed that the Government should have the power of 'Rutting an end to the chartgr. Was the Bank, on the other hand, to have a -similar power? There wis a variety of points connected with this important subject, which would require much time fm their consideration ; and yet it

• would be hard to call upon the noble lord to give proper time for their discus- won ; for that would, in point of fact, be calling upon tke House to sit there till Christmas uext. (A laugh.) It was greatly ti be regretted that their time should have been wasted upon measures of much less consequent*: so that when a great measure like the present was brought forward, it must be disposed of in a hurry, as it was physically impossible for members to continue to sit for the period required for its due consideration and discussion.

Mr. Gao're was not disposed to quarrel with the principle of Lord Althorp's plan, as far as he could understand it. He concurred in all that he said respecting the advantages to be derived from publicity.

Lord Althorp had laid down that principle in the most emphatic manner at the commencement of his statement of his plan ; but when be came to see the mode in which the noble lord proposed to effect that publicity. and the extent to which he would carry it, he owned that he felt deeply and grievously disap- pointed. The publication of the accounts of the Dank for a quarter, at the end • of the quarter, was not calculated to give the public a proper insight into the management of the Bank, or to operate as a check upon the Bank itself if, however, the series of weekly avetages which were to be made up during the quarter, and which, according to the noble lord's plan, were to be laid before the Government, but not befall: the publie,—if that set iem of weekly averages, and the amount of issues in each week during the qinrtet, were to he made public at the end of it, the public would get a better insight into the manage- ment of the Bank ; and he thought that such publication was necessary, in - order to enable the public to understand accurately whether the 13ank Directors were right or not in their view of the results, and to ascertain whether the varia- tions that occurred could be fairly and satisfictorily accounted for. He was of opinion that it would be an improvement in the noble lord's plan to postpone the publication of the accounts from three months to six months, if at the end of that time the whole series of weekly averages during the time should be given.

He saw no material objection to the plan as it whole. That part of it which went to make Bank of England notes a legal tender was of essential importance.

Mr. JOHN Samar approved of making bank-notes a legal tender : • ie all probability, it would prevent the recurrence of great distress. The plan with regard a Country Banks was one of great compkxity ; and he declined giving any opinion upon it for the present.

Mr. O'Costateaa. inquired, whether bank-notes were to be made a legal tender in Ireland?

Lord ALTHORP replied, that his plan did not extend to Ireland or Scotland, but al aly to England and Wales. The Bank of Ireland Charter did not expire till 1837; when, by paying off the debt due to that body, and giving proper notice, a new arrangement might be made.

Mr. HUME regretted that the public were to submit to an extension of the Bank monopoly for ten or eleven years longer ; by which they would be deprived of 600,00W. or 700,00/. per minutia.

With reference to the hatpin which had been spol.en .,!' to him to he ridiculous that the circulation of the Bank of I 'atgla ' be flu t ced all

all over tite coo:.; y, and that all the people should gut !own. True it was, that the people would have to the man !:;,..,;0.0- of the debt 120,0007. iosiead of 2-18,0001. ; but that %V AL': the only out it. to the public.

With awe to time proposition that Bank-notes should be a leg d tender, be

count only express his opinion, that it would greatly inet eas., the dangers to be feared from a paper eurreney, and would eventually drive a gold cii.t.nlathm tout of the country. As the law now stood, every internal bank was obi:ged to re- tain a certain quantity of gold in its possession to answer the demand, equal to the circulation of its notes ; but under the plan proposed that was done away with ; and therefore, whenever a run for gold inight ml ice, it W011111 be directed to the Bank of England and its branches, and the danger consuyiently increased. The plan was entirely bad, and particularly as respected the renewal tif the ex- isting Bank monopoly. fk. saw no reason why the business of banking should not be opened the same as any other trade, business, or occupation.

Colonel TORRENS could not perceive how the dangers inherent in our monetary system would be removed by Lord Althorp's proposition.

Long, varied, and calamitous experience had now established the fact, that a circulating medium mainly consisting of paper-money, issued by irresponsible bodies, and convertible into cash at the option of the holder, was the most fluc- tuating, insecure, and dangerous currency •which it w.is pe-ilule for a great commercial country to employ. The evils of this species of currency were made manifest to a considerable extent during the crisis of 1797, which termi- nated in the suspension of cash payments.

The panics of 1825 and 1826 might be traced to the same cause. The Bank Directors indeed stated that they had gained wisdom from experience ; but their conduct did not inspire the country with confi- fidenee in these professions.

The Directors stated that their improved system commenced in 1827. Now, in the first place, did the official accounts submitted to the Committee of last year establish the fact that the new system adopted by the Directors of the k of England in 1827 had teided to give increased steadiness and uni- formity to the currency ? On the 27th of January, the amount of notes in cir- culation was 18,303,0001. ; and on the 22i1 of November hi the thllowing the circulation had increased to 27,012,0001., being an increase of Bank paper in circulation to the extent of one third, or upwards of 30 per cent. ; and during December 1831, and the first week of January 1832, the circulation was con- tracted to 16,400,000L These fluctuations took place under the improved system. •

The practical rule of the Bank Directors, as stated by themselves before the Committee of the last year, was when the currency was toll, as indicated by the exchanges being at par, or about to become unfavourable, to keep in their coffers bullion and coin to the extent of one third of their liabilities. Thus, when the currency was full, if there was 10.000,000/. of gold in the Bank, their liabilities would be 30,000,000/. ; 10,000,000/. being issued • upon the deposit of gold, and 20,000,0001. upon available securities. But supposing a succession of bad harvests or other unfavountble events to reduce the deposit of gold in the Bank to 5,000,0001., and supposing, while Wily this amount of treasure remained with the Bank, the exchanges were at par, or about to become unfavourable, then, Dp00 the rule which the Bank Directors laid down for their conduct, they would have to sedum their-liabilities from 30,000,000/. to 15,000,0001- But if abundant harvests or other favourable circumstances should increase the supply of the metals in the Bank to15,000,0001., and should the continuance of a fa- vourable achiute indicate a deficient currency, then, • on their own rule, the Directors wruld extend their issues of paper until their liabilities became equal to 45,000,0 10/. Thus, under the new rule of management of the BankDirecton, the currency of the country was exposed to the deepest vibrations.

He was in favour of a Government Bank issuing inconvertible paper to the amount of tsenty millions, and issuing convertible notes in the purchase of gold at the Mint price, and receiving them back again in exchange for bullion at the same price. Then would the circulating medium in exactly on the same footing with respect to amount and value as if it consisted entirelyof the precious metals. Lord Althorp's bargain with the Bank was most improvident, and would disappoint the country.

Lord ALTHORT wished to correct Colonel Torrens on one point--

It was true that the object of the Bank would be to keep in possession bullion to the amount of one third of their liabilities ; those liabilities included their deposits as well as the circulation. The principle which the Bank Direc- tors proless.ud to adopt, was to keep the amount of their securities level ; and the consequence was, that when bullion was drawn out of their coffers to go abroad, the effect was to diminish the amount of the circulation ; while, on the other hand, when bullion came in, of course the circulation was increased; therefore, so long as the securities -remained the same, a diminution of 5,000,000/. would occasion a &crease in circulation of that amount also, and not of 15,000,000L, as had been stated by Colonel Torrens. The increase of the amount of bullion would also create an equivalent increase of circulation:

Sir M. W. RIDLEY asked Lord Althorp,:if it was intended that the country bankers who did not issue their own paper were to be com- pelled to return the amount of their circulation, assets, and securities? At the same time, he begged to observe, that the making a Si. Bank of England note a legal tender was no boon to the country bankers, and bad not been sought for or solicited by them.

Lord ALTHORP replied, that his proposition only applied to bankers issuing their own notes ; and, therefore, if a country banker did not issue notes, he could not be called upon for an account of his circula- tion and assets.

Mr. BARING remarked, that a great inconvenience would arise with regard to a legal tender on the Borders, if the plan were not extended. o Scotland.

Lord ALTHORP said, that in Scotland 1/. notes were in circulation ; and therefore, the making Bank-notes a legal tender would exclude a bullion circulation altogether. Admitting, as he did, that there should not be a difference made in the circulation, yet still he thought that subject would involve a difficult question with one sufficiently difficult as regarded England and Wales, without interfering with the Scotch circulation.

Mr. FORSTER was of opinion, that making Bank of England notes a legal tender, would occasion greater-variations in the currency, and a more freqdent recurrence of panics, than had hitherto prevailed. Lord ALTHORP, in reply to a question from Mr. Baring, said that the alteration in the Usury-laws would only extend to England and Wales.

lie then moved that the Chairman should report progress ; and men- tioned that tile discussion would be resumed on Monday week.

3. PORTUGAL. The Duke of WELLINGTON, on Thursday, asked Earl Grey if he knew that armed ships with troops on board had left England, under the command of it Captain of the Navy, for the pur- pose of aiding one of the belligerent powers in Portugal ?

Earl GREY said, he bad seen such accounts in the public papers ; but that was all he knew on the subject.

The Duke of WELLINGTON then gave botice, that on Monday next, he would move an address to the King, praying protection for his Majesty's subjects and their property in Portugal, and for the ob- servance of strict neutrality.

4. REAL PROPERTY DEBTS BILL. Lord BROUGHAM, on Thurs- day, moved the second reading of this bill, and briefly explained its ob- ject and effect. The bill, in fact, went to make the dishonest debtor do by compulsion what the honest man would and ought to do without compulsion—namely, give up all his real property to his creditors. As the law stood, real property was not liable after the decease of the debtor; and it unfortunately was a too easy matter for him or any other practised lawyer, to cite cases, and, if they liked, names, in which creditors could not recover a single farthing of the money which haul purchased a large real property for a debtor who had died before judgment had been given against him, so as to make the property which he had thus possessed himself of through a fraudulent outlay of his creditors' funds liable to hi debts ; and thus the fraudulent debtor was enabled to transmit an entailed property without his creditors twine- able to procure the remotest re- dress. It was true, plots and schemes of ihis kind were rare ; but the possi- bility existed under the present law, and the fact of their having been success- fully resorted to, rendered a remedial measure like the present imperative. Then again, if through inadvertence or ignorance of the law a debtor should the before he had made the necessary provisions for paying his creditors out of the real property obtained, perhaps, as in the former instances, by their own money, thesa creditors had no redress whatever, and the property fell to the next heir tree from all obligations. He did not propose to extend the provision of the bill to Ireland, until he had an opportunity of consulting Lord Plunkett on the sub- ject. -Lord WYNFORD said, that when the bill was in Committee, he would move as an amendment, that real property should not, after demise, be liable, unless in eases where there was a written acknowledgment.of debt on the part of the deceased. No claims were more easily got -12p than those of alleged debts of persons deceased ; so that some chafe on fraud was necessary. Lord BROUGHAM would give the amendment his best consideration; but feared it would act so as to fence breaches of trust against just punishment. Say an agent or guardian made away with the property' of a minor or infant, if the amendment were adopted, how could the minor or infant recover?

The bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed.

5. IMPRISONMENT FOR DEBT. Sir JOHN CAMPBELL gave notice, en Thursday, that he would on an early -day move for leave to bring in a bill to abolish imprisonment for debt.

6. 'GAME LAWS. The Duke of WELLINGTON, On Friday, in 'pre- -seating a petition 'from the gunmakers of Birmingham against tha -Game-laws, stated that he had lately lost a servant, and in consequence would give up all idea of preserving game in future. Poaching in his neighbourhood was three times as great as it was before the passing of the late act. The Marquis of WESTMINSTER said, that poaching had not increased in his vicinity. The Earl of MALIVESBURY said, that now two thirds of the gunmakers were out of employ, for the Lon- doners preferred game that was snared to that which was shot, and hen pheasants to cocks.

Lord SEAGRAVE presented a petition from the London gunmakers against the Game Bill, which he said had been an entire failure. The Duke of RICHMOND said he was the person who had proposed the amendment to the Game-laws.

Noble lords, however, seemed to forget, that i a many respects there had been no change, and particularly as to offences by night there was no alteration. As to the sale of game, it was not by this act permitted, for it was notorious that the practice prevailed before. The object of the amendment was to make the Jaw equal for all. The gunmakers complained ; but be was only surprised how they got, for men), years, the -immense prices they charged. In consequence, many gentlemen preferred shooting on with an old gun to giving 70 or 80 guineas for a new one.

7. TIMBER DUTIES. Alderman THOMPSON, on Thursday, pre- sented a petition from Sunderland, complaining of the operation of the timber-duties. While a duty of 50s. and 58s. per load was levied on Baltic timber imported into England, the inhabitants of the Isle of Man were permitted to import it at a duty of only 5s. and 8s. The petitioners therefore prayed that the duties might be equalized.

8. SUNDAY NEWSPAPERS. The Bishop of LONDON, on Friday, presented a petition from 110 master newsmen of London, for the better observance of the Sabbath. He repeated his declaration of last session, to the effect that the practice of printing and publishing Newspapers on Sunday was sinful. The petitioners maintained that the practice was demoralizing ; and now that the Gazette was pub- lished on the Friday wholly unjustifiable.