Berates; mutt Protretringd in Valli/Merit.

THE IRISH POOR.

In the House of Peers, on Monday, after several petitions bad been presented against the Irish Poor Bill, Lord MELBOURNE rose to move that the bill be read a second time. He reminded the House of the numerous evils which had arisen under the old system of poor-laws in England, and of the success of the nos. sure passed in 1834 to remedy those evils and to prevent their recur. rence. He now proposed to the House a bill which was in reality so adaptation of the English Act to the condition of Ireland, with mod, cations rendered necessary by the peculiar state of Ireland. Lord Mel. bourne then entered into an explanation of the chief provisions of the bill ; but assured the House that he should consider a vote for the second reading as simply a sanction of' the principle of the bill. There had, however, been some dispute as to what the principle really was. He would state that the principle was simply, that in the present condi. tion of Ireland a compulsory provision for the relief of the poor in that country was expedient. Was it so or not ? Discarding details, that was the question which he wished the Peers to decide. He argued that common sense and experience bad proved the advantage of the interference of the State to take care of the impotent and necessitous, instead of leaving them to their own resources or private charity. He did not concur in all that was said of the extent of poverty and the prevalence of crime in Ireland ; but there was too much of unpleasant truth in what the Duke of Wellington had often said—" Show me the country in which life and property are not more secure than they are in Ireland ?" He did expect that the bill would prevent the crimes min. mitted by men who thought that if turned out of the land they occu- pied, they must be starved. And he considered that the manner in which it was proposed to carry the bill into operation was judicious: he did not believe that the workhouses would be crowded, although the diet in those places would be better than in a prison or a cottage; for the desire of freedom would counteract the inclination to apply for food in a workhouse. At the same time, nothing could be more absurd than to compare the workhouses, out of which everybody was at liberty to go when they wished, to gaols, where confinement was compulsory. Ile earnestly requested the House to give the bill impartial and candid consideration ; and moved that it be read a second time.

&id PITZWILLIAM denied that there was any proof that the intro. duetion of poor-laws into England had been beneficial. That was an entirely gratuitous assumption of the advocates of poor-laws. For his part, be thought that pour-laws tended to rob the Supreme Ruler of the Univer,e of one of his attributes, and to overthrow the law pro. mulgated in the beginning of the world, that " noon should eat bread by the sweat of his brow." Ile was glad to perceive that Lord Mel- bourne was prepared to allow alterations in the bill, arid only asked the House to sanction its principle. The English bill was admirably administered ; but he doubted whether it was practicable to establish as effectual tribunals in Ireland its the Boards of Guardians were in England. As far as his own experience went, and it was eon. siderable, he would say that it would be found impossible to administer the proposed law in Ireland. The English Poor-law was good, man. much as it was an approach to no poor-law. It was a great mistake of Mr. Nicholls to suppose, that because t1 measure was found beneficial in England, it could be successfully applied to Ireland. Mr. Nicholls hail not seen enough of Ireland and its people to render him compe- tent to give an opinion on the subject. It was not the selfish land. lords only who opposed the bill— It was not an Irish bill ; it was not a bill desired either by the landed inte- rests, the middling gentry, or the poolest classes of Ireland. Ile did not he. lieve if any gentleman searched the files of all the provincial newspapers in Ire- land—if he consulted the accounts of all county meetings—if he consulted all the appeals made to the constituency at the last general election, or upon any other occasion—he did not believe that them would be found any occasion upon which any gentleman, desitous of conciliating the good. will of Ills audience, ad- dressed them as a supporter of the introduction of a poor-law into Ireland. This was a good proof that the disinclination to the bill was not confined to what might be called the selfishness of the landlords, but that it pervaded the great masses, for whose benefit it was proposed to he established. Nothing could withstand the conclusion that was to be drawn from this circumstance- Did he then say that this bill ought not to pass ? Ile confessed he was anxious to hear more of the opinions of their Lordships on both sides of the House before he el mid come to this conclusion.

The Duke of Wet.t.mcmo would not enter into the details of the bill, but thought it right to take an early opportunity of stating the course he should adopt with respect to it. It was a fact established beyond doubt, that from failure of the potato crops and other causes, the mass of the Irish population frequently suffered extreme distress. There are means of relieving this distress. In one description of relief alone, from 150,0001. to 170,0001. were annually expended; and there were others which cost large sums of money. These facts ought to be kept in mind while considering an Irish Poor-law. He did not expect the distress which existed in spite of the means of relief he had alluded to would be cured by the bill before the House ; hut he looked to further measures. He could not suppose that the Irish bill would have the same effect in the same degree as the English Poor-law- " No, tiny Lords ; that which I expect from this measure, which I trust your Lordships will so amend as to be able to pass it, is, that it will improve the social relations of Ireland in such a degree us that the state of poverty and dis- turbance which exists there will no longer exist in the same degree that it does exist at the present moment. My Lords, that is what I expect will be the effect of this measure. It will induce the great landed proprietors in Ireland, whether resident there or not—and most particularly those resident in this country—it will induce them to look alter their properties. It will induce theta to look after those residing upon their estates, and afford them protection. Ana da not look to there being found a better state of things prevailing in Ireland int consequence of this measure permitting confinement in the workhouse, no kern its doling out relief to vagrants and mendicalts in a state of destitution, bU from its improving the social relation between landlord an I tenant, and bettween the occupier of the soil and the labourer of the soil. This, my Lords, k what I expect will be the effect of the measure. I confess that, had the kite of the poor and of the legislation upon the poor continued in this country it was four years ago, I should have been far from thinking it pi ssible to in- reduce into Ireland any thing of the same description : but, my Linda, we have seen the working of the measure of 1884—we have seen the reeults as produced in this country—we have seen the great advantages of this system, most parti- cularly in the improved relation between landlord and tenant, and I ccupier and kbourer ; and I desire to see something of the same sort introduced into Ire- land, in order, if possible, to produce the same effect."

But the measure would require much alteration and amendment, especially with regard to the prevention of mendicancy and vagrancy. The bill was also deficient, inasmuch as it did not "give locality to the expense"—.

4, I am very strongly opposed to the establishment in Ireland of any thing likean act of settlement. I am convinced, that if your Lordships agree to such a kw it will be attended with charges and expenses, and will be the occasion of disputes which no man can foresee the end of. But I do trust that it will be possible in this measure to take care that those parishes from which persons are taken in order to their being placed in workhouses shall pay the ixpenses at- tending those paupers. III my opinion, that arrangement is one if the prin- ciples of the economy in the execution of the law in thie country. Each parish pays, although belonging to a union, its own expense. There is consequently economy in the expenditure, there is supervision over all the expeediture; the occupiers of the soil are interested in keeping down the expenditure; and, to my own knowledge, they have been frequently induced to employ teen at suffi- cient wages rather than send thein to the workhouse to subsist there at the general charge. If this system is introduced into Ireland, care should be taken to locate the expense at least upon the parishes in every union, and I think it possible to introduce such amendment. My Lords, I shell move for returns upon this subject ; and I hope we shall have opportunities hereafter to introduce measures to amend this measure as far as possible to locate the ex- pose us far as I have stated."

There were other parts of the bill to which he should deem it his duty to move amendments in the Committee.

The Marquis of LONDONDERRY had objections to the measure which would not allow him to vote for the second reading ; and he should more that the bill be read a second time that day six months.

Lord LYNDHURST intended to vote for the second reading of the bill ; but unless it were materially altered in Committee, he should oppose the third reading. What was the opinion of the people respecting the bill ?—for that was a preliminary question which deserved considera- tion. It appeared that, while numerous petitions had been presented against it, not one bad been offered in approval of the measure. The other night, to be sure, the Marquis of Lansdowne had presented two petitions which were stated to be in its favour, but when read it turned Out that the petitioners wanted a very different measure. What had the learned, intelligent, and industrious Commissioners recommended ? Such a measure KS this? By no means; they entirely disapproved of it. Now he contended, that the British Parliament should be very cautious in forcing upon Ireland a measure which was opposed on such authority. It was a dangerous experiment which they were about to try. If they failed, it would not be easy to retrace their steps. There would be many victims of injudicious legislation, though the authors of it might escape harm. The object of the bill was to give relief to the suffering poor of Ireland without limitation— How was the object to he effected? By establishing workhouses through. out the country, for the purpose of receiving the necessitous. How was the system to be worked ? By investing with absolute legislative power three Commissioners resident in London. 'fhe noble viscount had informed them that there was to be also one Commissioner in Dublin. Thie was a new mode of legislation. Whether it was a wise one or not, he would leave their Lordships to consider ; but he was prepared to maintain that it would lead to a most un- constitutional principle. Let them look at the principle, and see if it was not unconstitutional. The protection against bad laws being passed was that they required the assent of both llowies of Parliament. If the House of Commons passed a bad law, this House could reject it ; and, on the other hand, if a bad law were passed by this House, the house of Commons could reject it. A union of the two houses was required to'pass the bad law ; but what protection was there against the improper legislation of the proposed Commissioners? However convenient it might be to the Government to legislate in this way, in his view it was an unsound principle of legislation. What were these legis- lators to do ? Mark the power with which they were gifted ! He believed that an act conferring such powers was unexampled in the history of legielatiun. He did not say that they would have the exercise of all this power entirely to themselves; but they were to possess it in connexion with and with the approba- tion of the Government of the time being ; which he considered to be quite as objectionable, quite as unconstitutional. They were to make laws for the government of the workhouse ; they were to make laws for the government of the people in the workhouse; they were to make laws for the government and control of the Guardians who were to be appointed for the administration of the affirm of the poor. This was not all. They were to be empowered to make such laws as they thought expedient for the purpose of carrying this bill into effect ; there was, indeed, to be no limit as to their power. He would go a step further, to justify himself in the course he was taking of refusing to vote for the second reading unless the bill should be essentially altered. These legis- lators were to appoint or cause to be appointed as many officers as they thought proper, with such amount of salaries as they thought proper, to carry the mete. 'sure Into effect. Why, was ever such a power conferred on any individuals ?

Indeed, this measure was applicable—he meant no offence to Irish Members—to the "land of jobs." Who could understand this bill ?-

Their Lordships looked into its provisions, and they found that there were a Certain number of persons who were to be empowered to do a particular act, and that act they were to do as they thought proper. How were their Lord. ships to judge how that duty would be performed? how that power would be exercised? how this bill could be carried into effect? It was like a bill coming up to them with blanks. If a measure were submitted to them which em- powered certain parties to appoint so many officers " blank," who were to have each salaries " blank," would not their Lordships say, " Fill up your blanks ; let us see what year bill will be when the blanks are filled up; we cannot take the bill on your credit." In this ease, what they were asked to do was to strip themselves of all legislative authority. But the most important feature of the measure was, that all this was to be paid for by a tax—a tax to be imposed by the authority of the Commissioners. Let thew Lordships look at the bill ; he had described it accurately, and he defied the noble viscount to disprove his statement in any one particular. And all these extraordinary powers were to be Vested in three gentlemen Commissioners at Somerset House, with a branch. agent la Dubliu. Now suppose the tables were turned— Suppose three Irish gentlemen were sitting in Downing street, vested with unlimited power over the whole of the lauded property of England ; suppose they possessed the power of taxing the land to any extent they pleased ; what woad be the degree of indignation which such an authority would excite in the mind of every Englishmen ? Conld it be supposed that the people of Ireland would not entertain the same feeling with regard to such a measure as the present ?

The English act was admitted to be an experiment. Ministers did not dare to apply that act to the whole even ef England. The eolirli_ tion of Irelaild and England was most dissimilar ; yet they took the English experiment, which had been only partially successful, as the model for an Irish law—

The principle of the English act was a most simple one—it was this, that no man should perish for went, nod that flare should be a workhouse to receive him ; but at the same time it was provided that the moral discipline should be such, that an able-bodied labourer would prefer going out to earn by his labour with the sweat of his brow a subsistence to remaiiiiiig in the workhouse. That system had worked well ; and in that respect tine test was a good one. But what an assumption was there here! It was proposed to apply the principle of the

English act to Ireland, on the assumption that a man who was willing to labour could obtain labour, otherwise it was no test whatever. Was the destitution of

the people of Ireland attributable to an unwillingness to work ? Could they

way it was, when they found a man travelling from the West a distance of six hundred miles On foot, and in due season retiring to his home, his journey having been made for the purpose of earning a few pounds ? during his absence he had most parsimoniously submitted to the greatest privatione, in order that he might be able to save a small sum. What was the cause of the destitution of Ire- land ? It was not that the people were unwilliug to work—it was not that they were basely inclined—but there was nO labour for them. What, then, became of the test ? Was it not obvious that to make a provision for the destitute poor they would requite a measure of impracticable extent ?

He calculated, from the reports of Mr. Nicholls and Mr. Lewis, that the tax which the present bill would indict upon Ireland would amount to two millions per annum, or a third of the entire rental of the country. And it was to be remembered, that in Ireland an estate of I0,000/. a year was frequently charged with mortgages, dowers, and other ineumbranees, till its rental was brought down to about 1,000/. a year; but the tax would be laid on the gross rental, and entirely absorb the income of the proprietor. The Lill was impracticable. Where were theGuardians of the Poor to administer it ? Who would dare to repel a beggar ? What would be the consequence of a refusal to re- lieve1—Vengeance. Would not this bill enable the Master Agitator to

throw the whole country into a flame ? It would be described as an- other chain thrown upon the Irish by their Saxon oppressors. Now, he would propose a much more limited scale of relief— He would propose to take Scotland as the model. They were proposing to legislate with reference to England, wholly pessing over Scotland. In Scot-

land, an able-hoilied labourer would think It infamous to receive eleemosynary assistance. The system there, he was told, workigi admirable. He would pro- vide for the able-bodied tutor of Ireland in another way. The Committee on the subject had reported that there were abutidant modes of employing the able-boffied poor. It had been recommended by the Commissioners of Poor- law Inquiry that it should be considered if some system of qualified labour

might nut be advantageously :plowed in Irolend. Hen he confessed that he did not expect from the Government of the noble viscount any proposition which would manifest large and comprelieneive views 6n the subject ; a " Govern- ment which is living, I inay say, froin bend to mouth—which is so much occu- pied in looking from to-day to the casual incident which may turn up in its favour to.morrow, that it has no time to give proper attention to such inatters.'■ Lord RADNOR spoke briefly in defence of the bill.

The Marquis of CIANitlea tem. was curious to hear what sort of a reply would be offered to Lord Lyielliurst's able, argumentative, and unimpassioned speech ; and he should like to know the real history of the bill, which was a mystery to him. There had been great plans for relieving Irish poverty, but they had all dwindled away. Lord Clan- ricarde mentioned objgctions to several details, and expressed general disapprobation of the bill.

The Earl of LIMERICK said that he should vote against the second reading.

The Earl of DrvoN remarked, that, in considering a bill of this nature, the first thing which required attention was the nature of the

evil it was intended to remedy; and it would be found to be, that in Ireland there were a vast number of persons unable to obtain a liveli- hood, because there was no employment for them 'fire first thing they had to do in this state of the matter, was to endeavour as far as they could to ascertain with precision and accuracy who were the persons really deserving of support ; and to distinguish these from the large rnams of

those who were applicants for assistance without having as good claim for it. He, for one, was satisfied that with this view no retire test could be supplied which would work with equal accuracy and efficiency as that of the workhouse. Having then discovered who were fitting objects for relief under the bill, and having provided for the extension of that relief in the best manner they could,

it would next become their duty to turn their attention towards the means) of

securing employment for the able-bodied labourers who were destitute solely from their inabeity to obtain employment. It was his firm belief, that the bill

in itself would give to all classes in Ireland a gre g• •,imulus, and that employ- ment would be generated by its mere enacting/ , it he also fully expected that the present was not to be the only measure ' educed with the view of meeting the existing destitution of the Irish poor, out that it would be speedily followed up by others to encourage and give facilities to the undertaking of and

carrying on great public works in that country. A great deal had been said about the pressure of taxation which would be occasioned by the measure ; but if he were only to look at the question in a pound, shilling, and pence point of

view, he should strongly support it ; for he was convinced that every pound he should have to pay under it would be eventually repaid my the great improve- ment in the land, which must result from the enactment of the bill.

Lord HaTittarroN was much gratified by Lord Devon's support of the bill, for there was no person whose opinion on the subject carried more weight than his, lie was himself convinced that all the advan- tages to the rich and blessings to the poor that resulted in Eligland from the Poor-law, would be extended to Ireland by the proposed measure.

Lord BROUGHAM had waited with anxiety for the appearance of her Majesty's Ministers in the debate on this peculiarly Irish question. But he waited in vain. The adopted parents of the bill preserved an ominous and unbroken silence- It could not be that they had misgiviugs of the merits of the question. That wee impossible. It was a Government measure. It could not be that they had no demaud for their setvices ; for an assault had been made on the Govern- ment measure, an powerful, that, until he heard it defended, and successfully de- fended, agaiust that attack, whatever might be his inclination, he was bound to give his vote against this measure proceeding further. Was it that the speech of his noble and learned friend required no answer? Oh, but three different supporters of the Government did come forward. There was, first, a noble friend of his, as utterly unconnected with the Government and the measure as he was with Ireland. He essayed to answer his noble and learned friend ; but failure more signal, more lamentable defeat he never Saw sustained in any con- flict in or out of Parliament. (Laughter.) He considered the notion that a million and a half of money could be raised annually in Ireland for the relief of the poor, as wild, baseless, and chimerical. 'There was no fund from which the money could be procured. He must say that nothing whatever in the shape of an answer to Lord Lyndh:o.st had been advanced by any of the lords who had followed him ; and t. at being the case, he would take the opportu- nity of stating his own opinions—an opportunity of which he had very nearly been deprived. It had been said that he could discuss the prin- ciple of the bill at a subsequent stage. Now nothing more ridiculous bad ever been urged—

The confusion was this—it was evident to lia7f an eve: if the second reading were allowed to pass sub silentio, then one might fairly be thought to have full power to discuss the measure at a subsequent stage ; but if it were said that he tould do so after a debate leading to a decision, without being prejudiced, all realest and common sense laughed at the supposition, and all Parliamentary expel ieuce in both Houses refutad it.

Ireland wanted capital ; but capital would never go to Ireland until the country was tranquillized— Let them settle the Tithe queetion—(Loud cheers)—with or without the Appropriation-clause he eared not one straw. He had been no party to the in. triguing that involve:I that question. Ile knew nothing of, and he never would be a party to it. Let the Tithe question be settled, with or without the Appro. priation-clause, and the whole of the ecclesiastical questions in general. Govern the country with firmness, with statesmanlike views, and with consistency, as the Marquis of Wellesley governed it, and as the Marquis of Anglesea governed it, Si) as to bold the balauce even between the conflicting sides and opposing pal-tics; but govern it with an ubsolute love of the people, and with a steady disposition unremittingly to gain their affections. Show yourselves to be the fathers as well as the rulers of the people; and then choose those fricials who are the streegth, comfort, and security of every Government, and without which, neither taxes can be raised in the Exchequer, nor rates levied by Commis• siousie, nor armies sent to enforce the rates which the Commissioners may raise—never will those avail to secure the strength and peace of the realm. " Auto risque ammus, regui presidia comparme quests, sal officio et fide." Yes, unremitting kindness, steady, manly, equal policy, absolutely perfect good la:th, and no chic:me—no shuffling w hatever—these are the friends upon whom alone a Gel/eminent ought to wish to rest, and upon wham alone the safety of the empire can securely be bottomed. 4' Officio et fide "—govern Ireland thus, arid you will see capital flow into her—you will see her fields cultivated, her Loge drained, her wants diminished, her comforts increased, tranquillity we- b:jelled ; and the crafty priest may intrigue in vain, arid the ruthless agitator may disturb in vain—you may defy them, because you are in the right ; and whilst yeti fairly discharge your duty you may defy the arts of the one and the tumults of the other. (1 Vanua,/ cheering front the Oppasitiortfrequtatly interrupted 11«. ,b henry of this passage.) The Marquis of LANSDOWNE admitted that the measure proposed was attended with tisk mid danger; but it WaS imperatively demanded by the state of the country. Ile had a confident expectation that it would assist the natural Causes which were gradually working out the prospetity of Ireland.

The Marquis of WESTMEATH protested against the sacrifice the bill required from the landed proprietors.

Lord 11Ieruot1ixt: regretted that an acrimonious tone had been in- troduced into the dehate. As for Lord Lyndhurst's attack, it was just Arhat he had expected. The dark cloud which had so long oversha- doo ed iris countenance had taught him to eapect that a shower would soon descend— The noble and learned lord had thought fit, most unreasonably, to introduce into this di;cussion very decided ebullitions of party feeling ; among other thing;, the noble lord had taken upon himself to intimate that he never expected any thing irartaking of great or enlarged principles to emanate from the present Government. Now, he must beg leave to say that he did not conceive the noble and !coined lord to be the beat possible judge of buch matters. Ile Icalliiy admitted the great tact, the surpassing ability of the noble and learned letil ; but he could never allow that the noble and learned lord was, in any n! glee, a competent judge of what was great or enlarged in ptinciple ; and he did hot, tlicsefoR,, feel the noble and leatned lord's censure in this respect so ecvetely

as he might have done a misuse from other quarters.

But Lord Lyndhurst's attack was greatly surpassed in bitterness by that el Lord Brougham ; whose vote for the second reading of the bill be had reasonably expected

The noble and learned lord seemed very angry with him that he had not loam consulted his convenience in reference to the progress of this bill. Ile could only say, that when he expressed his objection to postpone the discussion of so imputtant a measure Inertly on account of the absence of a siegle Member of the House, that objection was generally admitted by the Ileum: to be a valid one. Lord though= had reproached hiui with not having introduced the English Poor-lan• bill: he could only say that, to the best of his recollection, he had never had the option offered him of bringing forward that measure, for the noble and learned land himself volunteered tu ietroduce it, and himself tnatle the speeches in bunion of it ; and he was quite ready to admit that no one was fitter to do justice to the subject than a man of the great talents which the noble and twinned lend uutloubtedly possessed, and fur the exercise of which on that occalion he was much indebted to the noble aral ;earned lord. Every body Inuit be conscious how great were the noble and learned lord's powers of mind, autl air one but a madman would deprive himself of that noble and learned fold's aid and assistance unless there were vely strong reasons for his :Wing so. Lord Bitocortaar aguin rose— He would give a most positive, distinct, peremptory, and uneualified con- tradiction to the assertion of the noble viscount, that he had volunteered to bring forward the English Poor.law Bill : he was solicited, from a quarter which be could not now more particularly allude to (for the illustrious person was dead), to undertake the bill ; and he had must reluctantly consented, seeing not the remotest disposition on the part of the noble viscount to bring it forward him- self. He also most positively and unequivocally denied that he had ever given the noble viscount any reason to suppose that he should support the second reading of this bill. The House divided—

For the second reading Against it Majority 129 149 20

The Peers adjourned at two o'clock in the moaning.

NEGRO APPRENTICESHIP.

In the House of Commons, on Tuesday, numerous petitions were presented for the abolition of Negro Apprenticeship in the West Indies. Many hundreds were thrown in a heap on the table, and no attempt was made even to read the names of the places whence they came. Sir EARDLEY WILMOT rose to move a resolution,

" That it is the opinion of this House that Negro Apprenticeship in the British colonies should immediately cease and determine."

He then spoke at some length in support of the motion, but did not adduce any argument or fact bearing on it with which the reader has not lately become familiar.

Mr. CHARLES VILLIERS seconded the motion, which he considered as based upon wisdom as well as humanity—

He entertained that opinion firmly ; and though he perhaps was moved to avow his opinion on this occasion by that influence from without, which had been the subject of some comment in the former debate, yet he could say that before the excitement on this question had commenced, he had on a public oc- casion expressed the same opinion, and had ventured to say then, that if by any means the people of this country could be induced to give their attention to the facts and evidence on which that opinion was founded, they would not only arrive at the same conclusion, but would in one voice of complaint throughout the country call upon the Legislature to give effect to their opinion. He thought that every friend of humanity, every person who considered that the moral condition of the dependencies of the emphe should be the subject of their care, ought to feel deeply indebted to those benevolent persons whir, with such unwearying energy and disinterested zeal had agitated the country upon the question, and had thus succeeded in rousing the attention of the British Legis- lature to the subject ; and observing the good that they had already effected and were daily effecting, he not only did not deprecate that agitation, but sincerely hoped that their example would be followed, arid that other persons would, in matters of deep interest to the country, also act upon the lesson winch was taught by this house, namely, that it would refuse to give its attention to any subject, not of a personal or party character, unless it were presented to it as the crea- ture of agitation. This was now the case, as every man knew who ever brought forward any subject of national interest, not backed by excitement from without. It was idle, therefore, to complain of tile pressute front with- out, as long as indolence and indifference prevailed within. He did not say that agitation was desirable, but he contended that it was necessary.

He considered the Apprenticeship system as most pernicious, and certain to produce a devilish state of society

It was of advantage to no party, it engendered bad and bitter feelings between those whom it was au object to unite by every social tie ; but it was above an things dangerous to suffer the partial emancipation that was to occur this year, inasmuch as the most horrid state of feeling would be produced by the distine. tions that would then be erected, and the sufferings of those who were continued in bondage would be rendered far inure severe. If there were no other rosin that justified ismnediate emancipation, it was that, in direct violation of the Abolition Act, there had been no proper clasaiticatiun of those who were en- titled to freedom this year as the nowt:cilia', and those who were.ternied prx. dial, who were to be emancipated in 1840. Indeed, the distinction at all was most unwise, as nothing was more calculated to render field labour distasteful to the Negro in future, than the brand which was now imposed upon it by the law in postponing the boon of freedom to those who had been so engaged. Re- garding it, then, in every view, he could riot discover one solid mason against the object of the present resolution. All that could be alleged was the compact with the planter that he should retain his wretched power till i840; nlrieh, if there was any person fastidious enough to consider binding, after its gross violation by the planters themselves, he would only ask the House to !elect whether any other moral could be drawn frotn its disregard but this—thlt wires a great and generous country, like England, determined, at an 111011110U1 sacri. flee, to accomplish a generous and benevolent object, it would not suffer itself to be defied and defrauded with impunity by those with whom it had, in a liberal and confiding spitit, bargained.

Mr. BLACKETT and Sir Hanuv Vensms: spoke against, and Mr. SMITH O'Barete for the motion.

Mr. Hume contended, that it would be unwise to violate the national engagements with the planters ; and that it would be better for the Negroes themselves to let the apprenticeship run out its full term.

Mr. EDWARD BULWER delivered an elaborate speech in support of the motion. He admitted that, although no express compact might have been made with the planters, the national honour was equally pledged to them ; but it was also pledged to two other parties—the people of Englund and the Negroes—that the promises and understandieg upon which the money was paid to the planters should not be violated-

" Those promises and that understanding were, the English Act of Parlia- ment which declared that slavery should cease, and the speeches of the Govern- ment, especially of the noble lord the Member for Lancashire, in which lie des dialed that, after the passing of that Act, every slave should enjoy every tight and every privilege of a fteeman, subject to this restriction only, that he should for a certain time remain under contract to labour industriously in the some of the employer. Now, this is the question from which the opponent; to the people." • keeping lath present motion shrink. They talk of preserving a compact ate solely with one panty—the planters ; and seem quite to forget the two other parties to whom they had given equal promises—the slaves, and the English. Mr. Bylwer read extracts from official documents in the Appendix to the Report of the Select Committee on Negro Apprenticeship, in proof of his statement that the act or compact had been violated in Gladstone claimed especial for which latter colouy Jamaica, Barbadoes, and British Guiana,

Jamaica, you cannot get over; the first lawyer in England has allowed that Jamaica violated the compact. Well, ellen, what is Jamaica? Why, the colony possessing the largest slave population of ell. Jamaica has four times the slave population of Guiana ; liarbadoes has nearly the b1■111: pa potation as Guiana. What, then, if we were to meet the Member for Newark at once by makiug him a present of Guiana? What if we were to say, th!'" but one colony—it is subordinate to Jamaica, the colony which it is impossible to defend. Grant that Guiana is immaculate—grant that your facts are true- aud still the innocence of one colony is never to be held as an exemption for the guilt of others—or at most, all you can do is to make a special case for Guiana ; and I call on the House to observe that all the honourableMember can say on that subject may beat most to vindicate one colony; but till he has proved Jamaica, and Barhadoes, and the Maurities innocent, he cat 'sat pove any thing againstpassiug the present resohition. But ie Guiana innocent ? The honourable Member for li.ewai k. on a former night complaimal of ex parte and unproved statements. Di he indulge in none himself ? Have um nearly an his facts been denied in public meetings, and in the face of day—tlettied by t

w le-

itnesses Id the state of Guiana—denied hy references to at lia memo ry ;loco- ents? (Mr. Gladstone shook his head and smiled.) Ay, and though it inmay suit honourable Mende:re to sneer at the zeal of the friend of the Vegro, I say that, according to all the laws of testimony, it is more likely that men having no sinister and selfish interest to serve will give more faithful accounts than the planters, who have a direct personal interest to bias their judgment."

What said Sir Lionel Smith in one of his last despatches? Why, that for further compensation all parties would abandon the A pprentice. ship system to.morrow. They hold out, avowedly in the hope of ex- torting a larger ransom, and doubling the pieces of silver they have already received as the price of blood. Depend upon it, said Mr. Bulwer, in conclusion, till the attempts made to relax and mitigate slavery are hopeless and absurd-

,' There are no ways of patching up die everlasting distinction between slavery and freedom; all that you can do is to diminish the interest of the planter in the health and life of the negro, and leave the wretch more exposed to the jealousy, because more obnoxious to the fears of the tyrant. I cannot understand this one.sided niceness of conscience, this terror of violation- by a hair's breadth your compact with a planter, and this deaf mid blind iiidilter- ence to the equal obligations due to the other parties to the compact, the Negroes and the people of these realms. You know that our law, which was the compact, has been violated in all the colonies • you know that the English rople have not got that for which they paid ;heir money, and yet you give up the rights of two parties for the sake of the third, a guilty party, and find no sanctity except where you are forced to recognize fraud, and frame a new law to resist oppression. * •• • When seholars and divines have simile I up the blessings that our common creed hits conferred upon mankind, first and foremost of those blessings they have placed the abelition of that slivery which stained and darkened the instituttune of the Paaan world. I know of no Pagan slavery worse than this Christian Apprenticerhip here, then, we tight again the same battle as our first fathers, the primi- tive Christians, from whom all our sects and divisions have emerged. Ilere is a ground upon ohieti catholic and Protestant, and the various families of Dis- sent, all may unite ; and I do believe that he who votes against this dark hypo- crisy of slavery in disgoise, will obtain something better than the approval of constituents—somethiog holier than the gratification of party ttiumph and poli- neal ambitiou—in the applause of his own conscience, aud in those blessings that will not rise the less to the eternal throne because they are uttered by the victims of human avarice and prin." ( Continued cheering ) The House divided—

For the resolution fa; Against it 03

Majority 3 Subsequently, Lord JOHN RUSSELL made the following statement of the course Ministers should pursue on this question— "tam desirous of addressing a few words to the House, in consequence of the division which has taken place to-night on the motion of the honoureble baronet. I have no wish to revive the discussion on tl:at motion, but I feel it might lead to serioits consequent-es—I fear that great evils might result, if the inten- tions of the Govermnetet on the subject were left eveu for a single evening in doubt. The iesolution which Ins been carried by a majority of three • has in contemplation the titter:Mon of au act of Varna:tie:it ; and of 1:0111'S:.` that altera. tion could only be effected by another act, whieli it would be oecessary for the honourable baronet or ,iLoe one else tonal-educe. I wish, therefore, to declare, that if the honotarolele It;toilet pi:tweeds to introduce a bill, or moves the adop- tion of any other measure in purse:me° of the vote of this evening, her 51a- jetty's Ministers wi:1 outsider it their bounden ditty to give ti such a pro. position their mo-t str•nitous and determined opposition." (Mach cheerio/1.)

On Thursday, Lord Joust Rus:er.t. asked Sir Eardley Wilmot whether he intended to bring in a hill, or what other measure he would found on his resollitiort ?

Sir EAnDLEY WILMOT said, his reply would depend on the answer Lord John Russell gave to a question he had put- " The Commons of England have ngreed to a resolution in favour of the im- mediate and entire abolition of the Apprenticeship system in the West holies. It is a great national thoestion—one of the greatest tool most importont that hae been dots-el for many years. I beg, ther•eftre, to tisk the noble lord whether or not it is his intention to do any thing to carry the resolution of the House into etfeet, or ;my thing to annul or rewind it i" Lord JOHN RI•SsELL said, he had already declared that he should give strenuous opposition to a measure for abolishing the Apprentice- ship. If any thing was done, it should be done quickly; and if Sir Eardley Wihnot wished to bring in a bill, he should have Monday for that purpose.

Sir EARDLEY Witstirr said, the question required much delibera- tion, and he would not answer it till Monday next.

Lord JOHN RUSSELL urged the necessity of an immediate deter- mination, and hoped that Sir Eardley Wilmot would be prepared with an answer on Friday.

Mr. Gsao*oxt: wished to put a question to Sir Eardley Wilmot-

" I wish to know from him, or, rather, in the first place, I wish to direct his attention to the fact, that the packets to the West Indies will sail on the last day of the month—thot is to say, on Thorsday next. Is it, then, too much to ask him to give a promise that he will bring this question to an issue before the packets sail."

Sir EARDLEY %%rumor repeated, that he would state on Monday the course he meant to pursue. Sir Houma. PEEL said, it was most unfortunate that Sir Eardley was

not prepared with an immediate answer_

" If the honourable baronet should state to-night that he meant to brink for- ward a measure upon the subject, there wault1 be an opportunity of full discus- sion upon the motion for leave to bring it in, when all misunderstanding upon the matter might be cleared up. But supposing the honourable baronet should L!ay, .1 will content myself with leaving the resolution on the journals of the n. use, and will found no measure upon it,' then I very much fear, unless some distinct, particular measure he taken for expressing the sentiments of this House in some way or other, misconceptions will arise; and it may become eh- 'Mutely essential, for the sake of huminity and the preservation of innocent life, that we should declare what is the positive intention of the Legislature." Mr. BAINgS thought that Sir Eardley ought not to be pressed any further. Lord Joust RUSSELL said, that his: iffewians ri•sa-ctib the Iri•lt Tithes had been rightly wider-to:A by Sir Ita'aiat Peel-- Ile would only fin ther it', who. Its I; ul meat:me:I the other d ty. that illS saw no necessity for setting faith the peril:odor tout .1 the aeie.-ell ;tee ui

the first resoltitien. Ile thought it better tel a! , t igen a' it -ea:: et. :Co !

leave the patticalar propartion tt h:: a .1: 1 ;it With r statement made by Sir Robert 11: •!, .. I at that ;: •ri • I to, tl •

se:.sion it would be desirable, without tion 1111 in Committee ; nod he :deed i Sir Hebert %tame. the Speaker left the el tions lee nwant to discuss. He w ell I only :• glad to hear that Sir Itohert was n 0-. deep •

mar the prospect of au adjostment of the jabs, •

PeNtsit CLAIMs.

Mr. ellEs;WELL, on Thursd iv, movisl an address to, t'

praying her :Majesty to direct the Cioninissio.iers • the el..inis of liersuos for lasses ors accoirrit of " boa.,

',goods ushore " iii 1S117, tactamioe also the claims of p . •

suffered losses by the seizare of ships and cargoes by. the vernment in the same year, at 1 to report oil such davits to the Lords

Commissioners of her Majesty's Tre,e,ary.

Mr. BLAckurr i:tseond(41 the motion..

Sir lloccaT Rot.t.s: argued, that there was no ground for sffporring the motion ; as, aceording to tl:e law of nations, th:it which eonstitated a breach of the law with respect to 'goods ;kshore," was II0 viola' act of it as regarded "goods aduat.'"11:e claim of the persons whose cause Mr. Creswell advocated, was wiprecedented and extraordinary— If proof were wanting as to the correctness of the view he had talmo of the law of nations, it was to he fun el ia this—that conimoaly, when two nati no, at peace with each other, entered iota tre ;ty, it was stipulated tleat it' a 3 .11: tillUtild break out between their: no hostility should be token tug dust the -rot:- chant-ships of either hearty six moetlis after the cominereemeat •-•teh war. It f •Ilowed as at irresi•tible imiertoire, that, in the alFetwe of any speciLi treaty to that effect, either pat ty might, by the law of nations, wiz.; th.• ship. (I.- the other without arty fin sal deehiration of war. Th's Wai 3 propesitem sanctioned by the most cede: cut w:iters oa the law of nations, who tiniti.i.mly maintained that the breaking out of a war surrsedi al all necessity for a 43.i:l• ration. Ile would therefere CAI flUSt!y 50/1111t to the House the utter Meepe- diency and impoliey of for one mom& at entertaining th's motion.

Mr. IluTr had never heard so weak an argil:Pent from the Soli:.ittir- General. Ile WM connected with a port a Inch had suffered reech from these transactions between England and 1/erimark ; and if be were permitted to state the facts fully (there was much noise and con- fusion at the bar, owing to a crowd of Alernbeis anxious to get !pairs for the rest of' the evening) he should convince the House of the injustice of refusing the compensation claimed. :Mr. GLADSTONE agsin pressed for an answer to his question.

Mr. Alaestaatv rose, but resented his seat, there being a geiler 1 eau for Sir Eardley laird Jima Itessers.--a Atn I to 'leder:dareh from the Itomotrable h:roe, t's silence, that he ineans to auswer the jit.t15ilh I the lemon: the: :leerier 7'3' Newark in the it:lit:motive ?"

Sir Ea IMLEY WILMOT.--" What I say is this: on Monday next I will in. form the !louse of the course I mean to ',nestle. If I should determine tu Ming forward any measure on the subject, I will do so as soon as possible." Lord JOHN RUSSELT.—" I must still state, that I think the hrmoueabi.e baronet may very welt be able to declare to-morrow the course he intends to pur- sue ; and I repeat now, that I shall he prepared to meet him on Monday upon any specific motion he may choose to bring forward. If the hearourable baronet shall not be prepared to make any declaration to-morrow, I reserve to meaelf the privilege of then stating tu the house what course I think the Goverunieut will take."

Subsequently, in consequence of the adjournment of the debate cm the Roxburghshire riots, Lord Jolts: Russtas sail, that the Moose would sit on Tuesday the 29th, (though generally kept as a holy:lire, being the anniversary of King Charles the Second's Restoration,) if Sir Earilley Wilmot should resolve to bring forward any measffe ; :1Ionday being fixed for the Conuaittee on the Irish Corporation Dill.

TRIM TITIIES AND CORN/RATIONS.

On Wednesday, Sir lionenr PEEL stated the course Ile iatetelett to pursue respecting the Governmeut measures for the regulation of Tithes and Corporations in Ireland— lie opan the motion that the House resolve into (ins tit on the Irish Corporation Bill, ta enter into a f.tenetal statement ef his views; of the present position of Irish affairs, and give a general indication if the course be meant to poithe with respect to them. Whether there was any great prospect of the adjustment of the-is quastions, it was not for bim to say ; but this he would say. that lie did not mean to ethe 'say course on rm iday treat which would obscure the present prospeet or• satisfactory ntlitetment. Ile did not mean to make any preiiiitinary ob.:ix:- thin to the motion that the Speaker le ire the chair ; and if he under- stood the noble lord, that after htvieg gone thltiegh the Itioa Corpot alien II:1 in Committee the !loose would have ati opperttioity ut emt•iderinet the question, he should not raise a oy thsenssioit on the mere older of preeessi:da. Trusting. therefore, that after the I'amosittee ea the C ii lion ill, and be- fore the fat ther progress of that me :sore, the. I Luse wooltl Iitee an tomortito it y of discussing the Tithe pie-thin, 1:e shoot! that be pi ...pared to :Are hisgomr views Oil thal subj:et. He should, as Ito It Id just seated, t the an tippet tunity on Friday next of explaining Isis views with respect to these teat tots ; e", preliminary to the Speaker leoving the chair, there would be no 1:• tee:: airy, as far as he could judge, for a division. Of course, he could give no assurance as to what might take place in Committee. Ile, and he be- lieved several of his friends, meant to make prop:N.11s iii Committee ; and he hoped this general statement would, whenever a division m•carred itt Coonr'etue, relieve hint ft unit the imputmian of having teketi the House by sorprhie. llo deeply regretted, tie unavoidable circumstances they were carol opou C) comider these tples:i•ins at this period of the se,-ion, when so many other matters of importance remained to be this. assed ; but h shotiiil not urge any propositima for farther delay. if, however, the noble Leal opposito should he of oplema that before the details of the nommres should be o asidered in (ill ii. . might he desirable to hove a mete prt-eise netiee it l'e• nature tl:e ., 1: mem" which the Olipmition oweit• pr' 'cc., 12 b ivy ole •etie.tt whatever to give :titer notice a -re free ceo. t.:e onto, e et the .: • t•

merits he intended to move refer,. •.•ti the It ;shfelt' ;eel Corp:::: moo 11;;'•.

`1C,.! . S • WI :c.r. • ,',11.1F

1 •• '• W11:••:• 1!ILLt

• ,is liuoli huc had C.'

sir. SPRING Rice resisted the motion, on the ground stated by the Solicitor-General. The sum of P20,0001. had been directed to be paid 011 account of' book-debts, and 78,3171. for losses on account of goods seized ashore. The sum of 78,317/. would not be sufficient ; for, in consequence of the vote of' the House, directing the consideration of that class of claims, they had swelled from 78,3171. to upwards of 100,000/. He entreated the House to pause before they extended the compensation, contrary to all precedent and national law.

Sir WALTER JAMES spoke briefly in support of the claims.

Sir JOHN CAMPBELL quoted the authority of Sir James Mackintosh for the doctrine, that it was not contrary to the law of nations to seize goods afloat during war, though it was undoubtedly a violation of national law to seize book-debts and goods ashore. The only preee. dent for the seizure of book-debts was that of Alexander the Great, who confiscated the debts due from the Thessalians to the Thebans, and the act had been condemned ever slime. He contended, that as we had bombarded Copenhagen, and blood had been spilt, it was quite vain to argue that there was not actual war between England and Denmark.

Mr. CLAY reminded the House of the atrucious seizure of 320 Danish merchantmen in Dials!' ports, an act which led to reprisals for which compensation was now justly demanded. The fact nits, the English merchantmen had been trepanned. Lord Gambier had assured the captain of the John and Eliza, that he might safely tale his ship into the Baltic, as all:disputes would be amicably adjusted ; but when he got to the Baltic and wrote home to insure his cargo, he found that insurance could not be effected ; and his ship was seized. William Harrison of Hull, before going to Stockholm, had been told by the Admiralty that it was safe for him to go not only to Swedish hut to Russian and Prussian ports ; but he had scarcely reached the Baltic, when his vessel was boarded and eroded into Copenhagen. And yet this was called ordinary warfare.

Mr. IVaituuterus: said, that with respect to the increase of claims for goods seized ushore, from 78,317/. to upwards of 100,00a, it was occa- sioned by the length of the notice which Mr. Sluing Rice gave. Bad his suggestion of a week's notice only been adopted, the amount of claims would have been between 70,0001. and 8:1,0001.

Mr. GOULBURN considered that the law of nations did not warrant the concession of these claims. He adhered to his former opinion on that point.

After a brief reply from Mr. CRESWELL, the House divided

For the motion I I'S

Against it I'll Majority Mr. SPRING RICE said that he was not in the slightest degree dis- turbed by the division ; that his opinion was unaltered ; and be would say distinctly that he undertook no further responsibility in the matter. (Cries " 01i, oh !") OBSERVANCE OF THE SABBATH.

On Wednesday, the House went into Counaittee on the Lord's Day Bill, on the motion of Mr. Pia:me-rim There was sonie difficulty in

procuring a chairman ; no Member appeared willing to undertake the duty. After a long search, Sir George Sinclair was found in a corner of the House, and amidst loud laughter hurried into the chair.

On the first clause being proposed, Mr. Jetty's said, that this clause would prevcrit any manner of work on Sunday, so that a person could not get his breakfast or his bed made without violating the law.

Mr. PLUMPTRE did not wish to make the bill so stringent. It was not a perfect measure, and might be altered. He did not wish to inter- fere with Sunday travelling; his aim was to suppress trading on Sun. day, arid that was all.

Mr. JERVIS said, that the clause was evidently obscure; and be moved that it be postponed.

Mr. PLUMPTRE said, that would be a postponement of the bill.

Mr. O'CONNELL thought that Mr. Plumptre could scarcely call on the House to pass a clause about which he had not even made up his own mind, or how far it would go.

Sir EDWARD SEGDEN Would not put restraints upon the Sunday C11- joyments of the poor man, and would vote against the third reading of the bill unless it were distinctly confined to matters of bargain and sale. Even were the clause altered so as to prevent what was culled, in com- mon parlance, trading on a Sunday, ninny exceptions would be neces- sary to enable the labouring classes to procure the necessaries of life on that day.

Mr. WARD thought there was no possibility of amending the clause. The exceptions would be so numerous, that nobody could tell where they would end—

Admitting tbat the pent-up inhabitants of the city were to be allowed to breathe the fresh air on Sunday, the question then arose how they were to ob- tain access to it. Would not the running of omuibusttes, steam-boats, aud other cheap modes of conveyance, be ceustrued as cowing within the meauing of the word trading ?

Sir EDWARD SUGDEN would agree to nothing that would deprive the poor of the advantages of healthful recreation on a Sunday with their wives and children, which tended far more than any legal enactment to make them good members of society.

Sir GEORGE STRICKLAND was disappointed in Mr. Plumptre's at- tempt to explain his bill. He did not wish to prevent travelling on Sunday, but was that to be the only exception ?—

Septets° an exception to be made in favour of travelling, and he went out in an omnibus, what was he to do wheu he got to the end of his journey ? The usual practice was to go to an inn or a shop, and there get the most innocent of all beverages, and do the most innocent of all occupations, which was to dank tea—(Great laughter)—hut this he would now be prevented from doing, be- cause the bill now before the House went to prevent all refreshments from being sold ou the Sunday.

Captain PECHELL said, it would be net essary to make an exception in favour of fisheries—

Fishermen would be exposed to great losses if they were not allowed to land their cargoes on Sunday. He trusted also that the Attorney-General would stand up for the prerogative of the Crown. As the bill now stood, it would be impossible for any one of her Majesty's ships ti leave port for Canada or else- where on the Lord's Day • and as for the merehanttrent upon the Nlotherbank, they would not only not be allowed to sail, but not even allowed to raise hatehea on that day.

Sir Jon CAMPBELL agreed that it was most desirable to put down the practice of Sunday tradiog, if it could be done without trenching on the comforts of the poor. But in this there was great difficulty. A penal measure ought strictly to define offences. He really thought that no lesielation on the subject was necessary, and that it would be better to leave the observance of the Sabbath to the good sense and proper feeling of the country.

Mr. GRANTLEY BERKELEY said, that an exception must be made for bakers, whose ovens saved the labour of hundreds.

Mr. PLUN1PTRE knew there was a very strong feeling in the country that something should be done, and be had hoped that the House

would have gone into a calm consideration of the subject ; but the in- clination of Members was the other way, and he certainly should not contend against it.

Mr. SHAW recommended Mr. Plumptre to withdraw his bill. He thought that Government should take up the question.

Mr. SP:UNG Ric': also advised the withdrawal of the bill. He had no objection to consider any measure framed with a view to render the observance of Sunday more general and decorous, but he feared that in the attempt something of an opposite character might be done. He also preferred to trust to the growing disposition of all classes and sects to pay due respect to the Subbed'. He thought the House might allow Mr. Plumptre nu opportunity of bringing in another bill in a more definite shape.

Sir ROBERT PEEL said, that Mr. Plumptre would recollect that he had given the same advice as Mr. Spring Rice. It was due to the pious individuals who asked for Parlianientary interference in this matter, to consider any bill that might be introduced in a becoming and setious manner. Much evil had arisen from the style in which former

discussions had been carried on. While he was ready, however, to consider a bill for the better observance of the Sabbath, he must say that he wits not prepared to legislate on the subject without much eau. tioim-

PLUMPTRE took the advice offered him by both sides of the House, told moved that the Chairman report progress ; which motion being carried, the Committee rose.

CUSTODY OF INFANTS.

Mr Sergeant TALFOURD moved the third reading of the Custody of Infants Bill.

Sir EDWARD Scones; moved as an amendment, that the bill be read a third time that day six months. In point of fact, the existing law gave the mother greater power over her children than would be conferred by this bill—

If the bill were passed into a law, it ought to be entitled a bill to facilitate

divorce. The House ought not to legislate on pal ticular cases, however bard they might appear. The French law made divorce easy ; but then it compelled the parties to live tPgether fur two years, so as that they should not suddenly break off on the first little quatrel between them. When the parties separated by mutual consent, it seldom or never occurred that the mother was denied

access to her children. If this bill were to pass, and the mother gained access not by the consent of her husband but through au order from Court, what would be the effect on the children ? The father would speak ill of the mother, the niother of the father ; and the children would learn to despise or perhaps detest both. Again, if the wife happened to have been tried and acquitted of adultery, and afterwards made an application to a Judge for an order to visit her cliildreu, the husband, in resisting the application, would re. opeu the charge of adultery ; additional evidence would be 'nought ; and the breach, which i was perhaps one which could be made up, would be thus rte.. tiered permanent.

Mr. Sergeant TALFOURD, Mr. PRAED, and Mr. LEADER spoke briefly in support of the bill.

Mr. LANGDALE opposed it ; as did also Mr. WARBURTON, for the reasons given by Sir Edward Sugden ; to whom, he said, the House should be much obliged for his exposure of the real consequences of the measure.

A division took place For the third reading 60 Against it 14 Majority 40

RIOTS AT THE ROXBURGHSHIRE ELECTION.

The Opposition benches were crowded on Thursday night, and the Ministerial side of the House not so well filled, when Sir JAMES GRAHAM rose to move for " leave to bring in a bill for disqualifying Hawick from being a polling-place for the county of Rox- burgh, and enabling the Sheriff of' that county to appoint other polling. places in lieu thereof." He solemnly disclaimed any intention to impugn the decision of the Committee of the Roxburglishire Election, whatever his opinion of it might be. As long as the Grenville Act was unrepeeled, the tribunals acting under it should be treated by him with respect. He took great personal interest in the welfare of Scot- land; and he had rejoiced at the extension of popular privileges to the people of that country. But he feared that unless they were checked, the procee hugs to which he was about to draw the atteetion of the House would bring those privileges into disrepute. From local mat personal kaowledge, he could affirm that the state of society in Hawick and the neighbouring district had undergone a serious change, and that legislative interference was indispensable. The polling for the county of Roxburgh took place on the 3d and 4th of August last ; but pre viously to that day a memorial signed by 95 freeholders had been presented to the Lord Advocate, desiring that the poll might not be taken at Hawick, ia consequence of the disturbances which had occurred there during formsr elections; and that u military force might be sent to aid the civil power in keeping the peace. The Sheriff had been in correspond-

ence with the two &lilies or Magistrates of Hawick on the subject of keeping th peace; but those persons, notorious partisans of Mr. El- liott, refuied to act in conjunction with the Sheriff or the County Justices, awl insisted, if there was to be any responsibility, that they should the nselves have the whole of' it. The Lord Advocate recom- mended tht.t arrangement with the Local Magistrates; but time upshot of the matter was, that the County Justices were denuded of all Ruche- tv and the assistance of the military was refused. Sir James of grieved beyond measure to say any thing to wound the feelings ot his

excellent friend the Lord Advocate; but he must say, that he allowed his zeal for a party to get the better of his discretion. It was also most unwise in the learned lord to act as judge in a case wherein his own conduct was impugned, by allowing himself to be put on the Roxburgh- shire Committee. Sir James proceeded to state, from the evidence given before the Committee, and from other evidence which he con- tended that the Committee had improperly rejected, a number of facts to prove that extremely gross and violent outrages bad been committed St the election ; that those outrages were encouraged and organized by the partisans of one of the candidates ; that they succeeded in over- awing the freedom of election ; and that they were preconcerted and continuous from former elections. This part of Sir James Graham's speech occupies five columns of the Chronicle. The evidence proved that the agents and supporters of Mr. Scott, the Tory candidate, were kicked and trampled upon, and their clothes and hair torn by the Elliott mob; that some electors were forced to swear not to vote for Mr. Scott, by threats of being thrown over the bridge, stabbed, and murdered ; that the windows of several houses were smashed, and their owners dragged out and thrown through the windows ; that some men were stripped naked and ducked in the river Slittrig ; that the Magistrates refused Erotection to those who wished to poll, and went about with Mr. Elliott's colours ' • and that several voters actually went away not daring to poll. Major Napier, a passenger on the mail that passed through Hawick on the first polling day, told the Committee that he never in his life saw such a violent mob ; that when he assured them that he was not an elector, a man gave him an Elliot colour, and said, " Now your life is safe." Four or five days before the election, the Elliott party made no secret of the outrages they intended to commit ; but this part of the evidence the Committee refused to receive, as well as that which related to outrages at previous elections. Sir James maintained that the Legislature should interfere to prevent the recurrence of such outrages; and concluded with the motion for leave to bring in a bill.

The question having been put, Mr. ELLIOTT rose to reply. He contended, that in the elections of 1832, no rioting of any consequence had occurred. Some mud and stones had been thrown at Lord John Scott and his scevants, but not until the latter had struck the people in the inn.yard at Hawick with his stick. In 1833, some gentlemen, he regretted to say, were male- treated ; but that was occasioned by the refusal of the Sheriff to make over to the local magistrates the care of preserving the peace, which

they bad kept in 183:2 very efficiently. The Sheriff threatened to bring in the military ; and this threat had been bunging over the town since l832, and greatly irritated the people. While there was no appearance of a riot, the Sheriff thwight proper to read the riot act, and call in the

military to escort the Tory voters out of town. No disturbance oc- curred, however, thanks to the discretion of Mr. Walter Wilson, the chief magistrate. There was snow on the ground, and some boys made a" cocksby " of the Sheriff; but that would scarcely constitute a riot. In 1837, the ninety-five electors asked for the military again—the most likely way to produce a riot. The soldiers were placed at Boswell's

Green, twenty miles from Hawick, and the town magistrates expressly ordered that they should not be moved thence except at their desire. He much regretted that disturh:mees had occurred, but he would ask what the cause of them was ? It was the intimidation and coercion

practised by the Tories. Mr. Elliot mentioned the case of an old tenant of the Duke of Buceleuch, who had been turned out of a place he had held for thirty years, in consequence of his vote ; and this mates • case, he said, was that of fifty others. He denied, upon his honour, the statement that the Magistrates had worn his colours, and it was not true that the special constables were all his partisans for they were chosen in equal numbers from the two sides. It had been said that Admiral Elliott and Lord Minto had interfered • in his behalf: their names had been connected with the election

riots by Mr. Pringle, Member for Selkirkshire. But the fact was, that Admiral Elliott had offered his services to the Sheriff to put down the disturbances- and that Lord Minto was only in town for half-an-hour during the first day, after the poll had closed ; and assuredly had done nothing to encourage rioting. One of the per. soils who had been badly treated, was converted from Radicalism upon receiving some land from the Duke's agent- and Mr. Elliott reminded Sir James Graham of the treatment he had himself received at Car- lisle—" hunted like a mad dog through the streets "—to show that per- sons who changed their politics were roughly handled in other places be- sides Hawick. Mr. Elliott then detailed a variety of circumstances to prove that the threat of calling in the military, and the partisanship of the Tory Sheriff, who placed the polling-booth conveniently for his own 'friends, had been among the chief causes of the disturbances. The case had not been fairly stated against him by Sir James Graham. The fact was, that the Duke of Buccleuch bad been assured that he

• should gain the election by forty votes, and it was deemed necessary by the parties to that statement to get up a case to justify it. The men- ' bars polled on each aide pioved that very few voters were prevented !from polling. He had a reserve of voters himself when the poll

• closed, and it was a most absurd story that the other party could by any means have pulled down his majority. A petition, with 629 signa- tures, had been presented in favour of removing the polling-plsces from Hawk-k, but only 184 signatures had been obtained in Hawick, and some of them unfairly, to that petition. The riots had been most ridi. culously magnified. The river into which the people were thrown was in no place four feet deep, nor wider than the floor of the House—

One of the Judges, in his charge to the Jury, made an extraordinary mistake with respect to the number of persons thrown into the river, and the right

honourable baronet had made the same mistake. Now, the fact was, that Richard Young was not in the river at all. The Judge made an extratadinary mistake in stating that six persons were thrown into the river. It Was not pretended that more than two were thrown in ; and one of them, when asked by the counsel how deep the river was, teplied in his Scotch aeeent, Oh, six or eight inehes, may be." This unfortunate individual was the only one who

suffered from the use of an unlawful instrument. This man was actually wounded by an unlawful instrument. In going through the town of Hawick

some one pricked him behind with a pin. ( Great laughter.) The crimes of the town of Musick were, then, that Hawick was full of enterprise, late'.

MISCELLANEOUS.

FISHERIES oN TIIE FRENCH COAST. Lord PALMERSTON stated, on Monday, in reply to questitais from Captain Pecnela., that pro- positions had been made to the Freed) Government for preventing collisions between English and French fishermen— The first proposition was, that the fishing of each country should be eranius. sively e wiled on within the territori juris'ilietion of that count' y ; the second proposition Was that a eoile shout.' be agreed to by both counti lea, regulating the conduct of the fishermen when they met out of the territorial jurisdiction of either country. These were the plopositions which had been wade to the French Government ; but circumstances had hitherto prevented au answer from being given to them.

REGISTRATION 01 E ma:Tons 11mm r. Forty-nine clams of this bill were agreed to in Committee, on Monday ; but the report of the dis- cussion is very brief and uninteresting.

Carreee or SLAVE-SHIPS. On Tuesday, a resolution moved by Mr. SPRING Mee' was agreed to by a Committee of the whole House, for allowing vessels without slaves on board, but evidently equipped for the slave-trade, to be seized and broken up ; half the produce of the sale of the materials to be girth to the captors, and an allowance of 1/. per ton ; the bounty on ve,..:els in which slaves are found to be 41. per ton, instead of the present bounty of 51. per head on each captured slave. The resolution was reported, and Mr. Rice will bring in a bill

founded upon it. • ELECTION COMMITTEES.

On Monday, the Chairman of the Mr. Samuel Crawley was, and that elected for Bedford.

Three Election Committees woe

1st, The Westmeath- Lilara/s-5 ; Mr. NYrightson, Mr. Fyslie Palmer, Sir George Staunton, Mr. James Stewart, Colonel Davies. Bedford Committee reported that Mr. Henry Stualt was nut duly

appointed on Tuesday.

Tories-6 ; Lord George Bentinck,

Mr. Thornhill,

Sir Stephen Wynne,

Mr. John Round,

Mr. Workhouse,

Mr. Robert Palmer.

The petitioners are Tory elecfors against the Liberal sitting Mem- bers, Sir R. Nagle and Sir M. Chapman.

21, The Galway Town- Liberals—fl; Mr. Henry Wilmington, Mr. George Aberciumby, Mr. Itedington, Mr. Francis Aglionby, Lord Itlerpeth,

111r. Callaghan.

The petitioners are Tory electors against time Liberal sitting Mem- ber, Mr. Lynch.

3d, The Devizes- Liberals-3; Mr. &Akio,

Mr. Richard Walker, Mr. Jephson,

Doubtfu/—I ; Sir Robert Ferguson.

The petitioners are Tory electors against the Liberal sitting Mem- ber, Captain Dundas.

Tories-5; Mr. William Howard, Mr. Mathew, Mr. Alevuell, Sir Charles Vere, Mr. Bolling.

Tore,-7;

Mr. Montague Parker, Lord Easttior,

Mr. Burroughes, Mr. Joseph Bailey, Sir Walter James, Lord Teigninouth, Sir John Mordaunt. ligence, and, above all, of political inilepeoileuce. (Lout cheers.) This 5555 the crime which required an ex post facto law to punish it. The bill which the right baronet was seeking to pass, was not a bill for the benefit of thecounty, or for the benefit of the voters, or for the benefit of any body : it Was an ex post facto law to punish the town of Hawick for daring to resist the mandates of the satellites of the great Buccieuch. (Loud cheers.) Every thing had been done by the opposite party that could be done. Every sort of coercion and intimidation, every sort of corruption had been tried, but the political principles of the people of Hawick were stanch ; and now, when all other means had failed, down came the right honourable baronet to ask the House of Common/ to make itself the deputy to the factor of the Duke of Buccleuch. This was the object of the present motion. It WWI a party niothm. It had no other motive but party ; and, having this motive, he would give it his most deter- mined opposition.

Mr. PRINGLE attempted to address the House ; but he was inaudible, partly on account of his low tone of voice, partly in consequence of constant interruption from the Ministerial benches.

Mr. HORSMAN commenced a speech against the motion, and had re- ferred to riots in Carlisle to show that serious disturbances had not been considered a sufficient cause for removing polling-places, when be was assailed by loud cries of " Divide!" and " Hear, hear ! " He at- tempted to speak amidst conflicting shouts, but at length concluded with a motion to adjourn the debate.

Sir JasiES GnallaSt hoped Mr. lIorsman would proceed.

Lord JOHN Ressia.i. said, that the Lord Advo'cate, who had been grossly attacked, must be allowed to speak in his own defence. A scene of confusion ensued, which ended in the adjournment of the debate to the next day.