Debates ant iiirotettlings in glarliament.

SEDITION AND REBELLION IN IRELAND.

The House of Commons held an extraordinary sitting on Saturday, to hear and consider the application of the Government for additional powers towards putting down sedition and preventing rebellion in Ireland. Shortly after noon, Lord Joint &mast'. rose and moved, "That leave be given to bring in a bill to empower the Lord-Lieutenant, or other Chief Governor or Governors of Ireland, to apprehend and detain for a time to be limited [until the 1st day of March 1849] such persons as he or they shall suspect of conspiring against her Majesty's person and government."

Lord John grounded this application on the proof of three positions — that the present state of Ireland is fraught with evil, and full of dangerous portent; that there are means sufficient to produce extensive injuries if outbreak be not prevented; and that the measure he proposed is appropri- ate to the juncture.

In regard to his first point, Lord John observed that he did not rely on secret information, or on evidence possessed by the Government alone, bat on facts which ate patentjusi notorious to all. He took a view of the phases through which political agitations in Ireland had gone from the date of Catholic Emancipation downwards. The late Mr. O'Connell always professed his faith that no political object was worth one single drop of blood, and insisted that his object in assem- bling vast concourses of his countrymen was but to exhibit in an imposing shape their intensity and unanimity of opinion. Towards the end of Mr. O'Connell's life there broke away from the old Repeal Association a body of men, who, under the name of Confederates, assumed new principles of political faith and action. These, at first covertly and ambiguously' but afterwards more openly, put forward the object of total separation of Leland from the dominions of the Crown. Un- der certain lax conditions of allegiance to this country, they held that no counsels of the Sovereign of this country should influence either the legislation or the ad- ministration of Ireland. The "moral force" doctrines of the late Mr. O'Con- nell were discarded, and in their stead physical force and rebellion were openly advocated. The promulgation of these doctrines has been aided by the phy- sical miseries of the potato failure and the consequent famine, and by the political excitement of Continental revolutions. Lord John indicated by quota- tions from the speeches of leaders, and by extracts from the Nation, the United Irishman, and the Irish Felon, how doctrines in favour of political rebellion grad- ually degenerated into doctrines of open war against all social guarantees in favour of property and life. Witness this extract from a letter signed " James F. Lalor," in a late number of the Irish Felon- " We hold the present existing Government of this island, and all existing rights of property in our soil, to be mere usurpation and tyranny, and to be null and void as of moral effect ; and our purpose Is to abolish them utterly, orlose our lives in the attempt. Theziglit founded on conquest, and affirmed by laws made by the conquerors them- selves, we regard as no other than the right of the robber on a larger scale. We owe no obedience to laws enacted by.another nation without our assent, nor respect to as- sumed rights of property which are starving and exterminating our people. The pre_ sent salvation and future security of *is country require that the English Government should at once be abolished, and the English garrison of landlords instantly expelled."

Lord John then marshalled his proofs of his second point—the means towards a- successful rebellion which now exist in Ireland. Till lately, he had thought these insignificant, or at least so small that the advantage of crushing the evil they threatened would not compare with the good of preserving the perfect liberty of opinion which the subjects of this country have a right to enjoy. Lately, however, all the accounts from Ireland concur with the statement of Lord Clarendon, that the change in the feelings of the people within the last week or ten days gas been the most rapid and complete ever known even in Ireland. Lord John read extracts of re ..rts from the Irish Constabulary, giving the particulars from day to day, since . ut the 3d July, of the progress of the Club organization throughout the counties of Loath and Meath, North of Dublin and Wexford, and more particularly Waterford and Tipperary in the South. At first there was little secrecy about the movement; but latterly the mode has been to call a meeting for political purpose, at which violent speaking occurs, and on the moment to organize a elm; whose proceedings thenceforth are conducted with guarded secrecy. The tumultuous rising at Carrick-on-Suir proves the extent and seriousness of the Club organization, and of the temper of its members: had the offence chanced to be unbailable of the prisoners in whose behalf the manifestation was made, it is morally certain that those prisoners would have been rescued by the peasantry, and that rebellion would then have actually begun. Lord John was brief in his third point—the appropriateness of his proposed measure to the juncture. Though the general object of the movement is per- fectly notorious, the secret tactics adopted are such that the means of procuring evidence to put it down under the present law are difficult of attainment. The stringent law against training is evaded in its letter by taking care not to use any military word of command; if any new law were contrived, new means of evasion would be invented; and the real force of the organization would remain untouched. Lord John knows no remedy so straightforward, so direct, and so immediate in its purpose, as seizing the persons of those who head the movement. By the suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act, neither inconvenience nor danger will be inflicted on the innocent. That suspension Lord John did nothesitate therefore to ask-of Parliament: He felt that he might have asked that measure at an earlier period. (General and marked cheering.) But it had seemed to him that an extraordinary law to suspend the liberties of a great part of the kingdom' if passed by a small majority—nay, without an almost unanimous concurrence of the House—if passed amid conflicting debates, and against a minority including men of undoubted integrity and love of social order, who doubted the necessity for each a measure—it had seemed to him that a law so passed, would lose a great part of its efficacy in Ireland, and would not tend perfectly to the pacification of that country. Government had therefore waited till the proofs were notorious and glaring, and the conviction universal that the measure now asked is the one absolutely necessary to be granted. In conclusion, Lord John earnestly de- precated any delay by present debating& Let but this measure be speedily passed, and he would give every facility to a debate on the general condition of Ireland, and the past policy of Government thereon. He stood responsible for proposing this measure, and he confidently asked the House to accept its own responsibility; to avoid delay which may cause the losing of lives, and be mind- ful of the blessings which prompt action may yet preserve.

Mr. Fnencius O'CONNOR saw in the recent course of Government and in this measure but a repetition of the ancient courses of the Whigs— An apparently candid admission of existing evils; a demand for coercive laws, with profuse promises of remedial measures afterwards; but no sooner has tran- quillity been restored than they have turned round and denied the necessity, or have neglected the application of the promised remedies. Mr. O'Connor inveighed against the policy of Mr. O'Connell, which had resulted only in the government of Ireland by patronage and dinner-table intrigue. He referred to recent events in Paris and Berlin, to the position of Austria and Italy, and to America lying only fourteen days' sail from the seabord of Ireland; and asked whether Parlia- ment could hope to maintain the position of a restrictive Monarchy in this coun- try? Does Lord John hope to tie up the Irish mind with red tape, and cram it into a Government box? He declared, " he was not for Repeal : he was for total separation of Ireland from England." If France had gained Waterloo, and the broad lands of the Bedford family had been restored to their Catholic owners, would not Lord John with his dying breath have enjoined his children to struggle unceasingly for the recovery of their rights? [Lord John Russell here took .up from the table the Oath of Allegiance, and, amidst vociferous cheering, pushed it significantly to Mr. O'Connor; who stopped and hesitated iu his speech. Recover- ing himself, he continued.] He thought he best observed the oath just pointed out to him, by struggling to preserve to the Queen that portion of her dominions could be best secured to her. He repeated his hope that Ireland would one day free herself from the yoke and dominion of England: every Saxon in the House would hold the same creed if Ireland were now England's master. He knew how dangeions it was to pay a compliment to Sir Robert Peel; bat he had no he would give his consent to this measure, forgetful of the opposition the Whigs offered to his far less sweeping bill. He confessed, too, not only his belief that had Sir Robert remained in office no need would have arisen for this bill, but that Sir Robert was the only man to whom all classes in this country looked with confidence.

Sir ROBERT PEEL responded to this allusion by a prompt avowal of his

decided support to the bill. .

" I am gratified," he said, "by the anticipation that I should give to the mea- sure proposed by the Government a decisive and cordial support—a support not qtalified by the reminiscences of past contentions—a support not qualified by party recriminations. (Loud cheers.) Sir, I look to the state of Ireland; I look to the combination which exists; I look to the avowals of the parties who head that combination; I give them credit for veracity; and, giving them credit for veracity, I believe there exists in Ireland at this moment a wicked conspiracy to deprive the Queen of her crown and government in that country. Such being my impression, trusting to the avowal of the Confederates, I take my part with the Crown of this United Kingdom against the conspirators who are arrayed against it." Possibly a case for earlier interference might have been made out; but he agreed with Lord John Russell, that before the House sanctioned a proposal to re- strict the liberties of a large body of the Queen's subjects, it should feel a strong impression—and the public mind too should feel a strong and decided impression —that further delay would be dangerous to the empire. But this danger ap- peared so imminent now, that if nothing were done a desolating warfare would begin as soon as Parliament rises. "In such a warfare, the Crown would doubt- less prevail at last, but only after great devastation of property and great loss of life—after the loss of life by many innocent persons—the loss of life by many who may have joined in rebellion from doubt as to your ultimate intentions. But this I believe, that if the Crown should fail in reestablishing its authority; you will then' have substituted for the government under which you live, by far the most cruel, debasing, and sanguinary desolation, that can prevail in a civilized country." (Loud cheers.) Sir Robert especially urged promptitude: if there had been de- lay, the reason is the greater for immediate action. He for one was perfectly pre- pared to consent to the suspension of all ordinary forms standing in the way of the immediate embodiment of these opinions in an act of Parliament. If, more- over, additional powers were necessary, he hoped no delay would interpose-m their statement to Parliament.

Sir Robert recurred to Mr. Feargas O'Connor's s. -pwch. " I tell him I will de- fend the Monarchy of England against the mock King of Munster—(Cheers and

laughter)—and against his own pretensions also in a subordinate degree. (Loud cheers.) The King of Munster ! (Shouts of laughter.) This gentleman who when Royal authority is ascribed to him, says, Not yet, not yet !'—I for one

am not prepared to exchange the mild supremacy of Queen Victoria for this

new King of Munster. (Loud cheers.) The noble Lord showed Mr. O'Connor the oath by which he swore to bear true allegiance to her Majesty Queen Victoria;

u which the honourable gentleman said, And am I not fulfilling the oath of ee when I am trying to insure for her Majesty the loyalty of her faithful subjects in Ireland?' Mr. O'Connell might have said that, for he was the enemy of separation, and he wished to maintain the golden link of the Crown. But the

honourable gentleman the Member for Nottingham declared for a separation between England and Ireland. Now, if the honourable gentleman means that by a separation Ireland is still to remain connected with the United Kingdom, and is to form an integral part of it, why was he scared by the Oath of Allegiance? ("Hear, hear!'') On seeing the oath, he declared that he was faithfully (Recharging hismbligations by preserving for her Majesty the allegiance of her Irish subjects and her rightful dominions in Ireland."

Mr. O'Corision—" Her English dominions."

Sir ROBERT FEEL—" Oh! her English dominions. Let me remind the honour- able gentleman, that the oath was taken without equivocation or mental reser- vation. The allegiance promised was =allegiance on the part of Ireland as fully and completely as on the part of England; and if the honourable gentleman took the oath with a secret reservation to be a faithful and loyal subject of this part of the United Kingdom, but reserved to himself a latitude with regard to Ireland, and a perfect right to sever Ireland from her Majesty's dominions, then I say that he possesses a latitude of consideration so large that there can be no value in his oath of allegiance." (" Hear, ,hear!") In conclusion, Sir Robert replied to Mr. O'Connor's question, was it possible to maintain a restricted Monarchy in this country? " aoking at what

has taken place on the chief arena of these revolutionary movements—taking Paris and France as my example—looking at the Government which existed before February, the securities for, the public liberty, the state of the revenue, the condition of the manufacturing classes, the principles which were acted upon with respect to the reward of labour—looking at what passed in February—looking at what passed in the interval of three or four months until June, when the new Government, which was founded upon the barri- cades of February, was exposed to the most violent attack by those whose hopes were disappointed—looking at all those circumstances—avoiding any reflection upon them, and only drawing an example for the guidance of the people of this country,—I say, so far from what has passed inducing me to distrust the ad- vantages of a limited Monarchy—to believe its foundations are less secure—to believe that there is less affection for the person of the Sovereign, or less rational

conviction in favour of the advantages of a limited Monarchy; looking to the experience of the last six months, -I retain an increased conviction that the

Monarchy of this country is secure, and is endeared by numerous considerations and associations to the affectionate support and devotion of the people of this country."

Mr. ()MORSE confessed embarrassment as to his course.

He at first had resolved to absent himself from the debate; but on reflection, he thought it would be unworthy to shrink from taking his full responsibility in passing this measure; for he believed in his heart that the persons whom it was directed against made Repeal but a pretext for murder and pillage. But he did not conceal his strong conviction that remedial measures have been wrongfully

withheld; and he should not consent that the bill should continue in operation till March 1849. The House should rather sit from month to month henceforward, that this bill may go forth hand in hand with healing and conciliating measures. He would himself bring before the House his long-considered convictions that there should be some modification of the act of Union.

Mr. SHARMAN CRAWFORD could not express the pain he felt in per- forming his duty of dividing against the present bill.

He desired to see peace, and this bill would bring no peace. He admitted that liberty must be restrained in times of crisis; but never, in such a case as this, without accompanying measures of amelioration and social improvement. The

Government has neglected the use of the powers within its hands: if it had used these, its troops and its Felony Bill would have prevented the present head being-

gamed by sedition. But now, a new coercion act will be a vain measure: physi- cal force cannot now prevent resistance to rents and taxes, and disorganization of society. He therefore felt bound to move as an amendment, "That the present distracted state of Ireland arises from misgovernment, and from the want of re- medial measures, without which no coercive measures could restore either order or content to the country."

Mr. FAGAN seconded the amendment. Mr. DANIEL CALAGHAN thought that every Irish Member who should support the proposed mea- sure would commit political suicide. Mr. JOHN REYNOLDS wished by re- medial measures to preserve until the end of time the union of England and Ireland, already six hundred years old. Mr. Hintz repudiated with extreme warmth the doctrines of Mr. O'Con- no_,r, and of his paper the Northern Star.

He protested against the supposition that this bill would remove the social evils of Ireland. He repeated his oft-expressed belief that religious discontents are the root of those evils; and that if civil and religious liberty were extended as widely in Ireland as in England and Scotland, tranquillity would pervade that country. He unwillingly supported the bill, to maintain the peace of the country; but he urged the bringing forward of remedial measures immediately—tomorrow- A Mmirenn—" Tomorrow is Sunday."

HUMS—" The better day the better deed." The House could not be better employed than in giving justice and peace to Ireland. MY. DISRAELI honoured the frankness and simplicity with which Lord.. John Russell had come to the House for this measure.

He came, not with a green bag filled with anonymous authorities, and facts too grave and mystic to be amply revealed to the country, bet with a reference only

to facts within the full knowledge of all. Mr. Disraeli believed this movement was neither an agrarian nor a religious one, nor one arising from a perverted sentiment

of nationality: be thought it neither more nor less than an external, a Conti- nental, and a Jacobin movement, in favour of a system of universal plunder and unmitigated violence; he thought it should be met by a courage equal to the audacity of its leaders, and by a power beyond their violence.

Sir DENHAM NORREYS, even if he should be committing a political sui- cide, nevertheless gave his unhesitating support to the measure. He ex- claimed to Ministers- " It is to save my country from theprecipice which I see her rushing upon, to save my poor wretched countrymen from the miseries that will otherwise be brought upon them, that I call upon you at once to seize the heads of this con- spiracy, and not allow bad men to lead the people on any longer." (Cheers.) Mr. SADLIER supported the measure, because of its primary object, and although he thought the evils which taint the body corporate of Irish Society to the bone are wholly due to the default of Ministers. Mr. HEN- RY DRUMMOND, Mr. NEWDEGATE, MI. GROGAN Mr. MUNTZ, Sir W. H. Bsnuorr, Colonel Durum, and Mr. SCULLY' also supported the measure; some of them with censures on Ministers.

On a division, Mr. Crawford's amendment was negatived, by 271 to 8; and the original motion was carried.

Sir LUCIUS O'BRIEN rose to say a few words on his vote in favour of the motion— His original feeling was, considering that a near relative of his own would most probably be one of the first persons to come under the operation of the bill, that it would be more delicate to absent himself from the House: but, reflecting that his opinions on the present posture of Irish affairs might be misinterpreted, he overruled his feelings, and concluded it would be patriotic and decorous to attend in the House and take part in the debate. (Loud and general cheering.) Lord JOHN RUSSELL said, as the House had so unequivocally pro- nounced its opinion, it would doubtless agree to pass the bill through its different' stages without delay. He moved the second reading.

Mr. REYNOLDS and Mr. DANIEL CALAGHAN objected, and desired a. division; but did not persist against the general feeling. Sir GEORGE GREY answered Mr. Humg, that every warrant issued under the act would be recorded as a memorial of facts for the review of Parliament.

The bill was read a second time; and the House went into Committee.

On the suggestion of Viscount brossritE, it was read from the table, clause by clause. Lord JOHN RUSSELL explained, that it only differed from the bill of 1822 in omitting the proviso protecting Members of Parlia- ment. The course of modern legislation has been to treat Members in criminal cases on the same footing with other subjects. If a Member be arrested to impede his Parliamentary functions, Ministers will be responsible to the country for so iniquitous an act.

Mr. OSBORNE moved that the operation of the bill be limited to the 1st September 1848. But, to his surprise, the Irish Members were unani- • mously against him, and he withdrew his amendment. In reply to Mr. Osborne, the CHAIRMAN stated that there was no standing order in the way of unchecked progress with a bill of this character, containing no money clauses.

The usual forms having been gone through, Lord JOHN RUSSELL moved the third reading. This was agreed to without division, and the bill was passed. Mr. Bernal was desired to carry it to the House of Lords, (which had met at four o'clock, in order that the Royal assent might be given to a number of bills,) and desire their Lordships' concurrence; but he found (about half-past six) that they had adjourned.

On Monday, the Lords, on the motion of the Marquis of LANsnowNE, agreed to the first reading of the bill as a matter of course. Lord Lana- downe then proposed to pass it through all the, other stages forthwith; and in support of the measure, made a statement supplementary to that made in the House of Commons by Lord John Russell on Saturday. The Club organization, he said, rapidly increases with each hour's delay; and he quoted from the last manifestoes issued by the Confederate leaders in their papers since learning the measures of the Government. Mr. Brennan, in the Irish Felon published on Saturday, counsels the young Irishmen to shoulder their pikes and march, and declares—" I think we had better front our fate at once, and be free in death, if we cannot live in freedom. Brothers, let your watchword be Now or never—now and for ever.'" Mr. J. F. Lalor, in the same paper, says— "In the case of Ireland now, there is but one fact to deal with, and one question to be considered. The fact is this, that there are at present in occupation of our country some forty thousand armed men in the livery and service of England"- and he proceeds—" The question is, how best and soonest to kill and capture those forty thousand men." He declares in favour of an instant rising—" If re- quired to state my own individual opinion, and allowed to choose my own time, • I certainly would take the time when the full harvest of Ireland shall be stacked in the haggarda. But not unfrequently God selects and sends his own seasons and occasions; and oftentimes, too, an enemy is able to foresee the necessity of either-fighting or failing. In the one case we ought not, in the other we surely cannot, attempt waiting for our 'harvest-home. If opportunity offers, we must dash at that opportunity; if driven to the wall, we must wheel for resistance. Wherefore let us fight in September, if we may—but sooner, if we must." Lord Lansdowne had some satisfaction in closing his quotations from the same letter with the following one, which indicates in the leaders a hesitation to begin —" Meanwhile, however, remember this, that somewhere and somehow, and by somebody, a beginning must be made. Who strikes the first blow for Ireland? Who draws first blood for Ireland ? Who wins a wreath that will be green for ever? " He believed that the hesitation here betrayed would be confirmed, and that 'no one would be found to "strike the first blow," if this bill were passed without delay. [We follow the reports in the daily papers: but we suspect that Lord Lansdowne quoted from the Irish Felon, or meant to quote, the following passage, which occurs in the same paper with the one just cited—" For remark you this, and recollect it—that somewhere, and somehow, and by somebody, a beginning must be made; and that the first act of resistance is al- ways, and must be ever, premature, imprudent, and dangerous. Lex- ington was premature, Banker's Hill was imprudent, and even Trenton was dangerous."] He ended by moving that the public safety required. that this bill be forwarded with all possible despatch; and that, notwithstanding the Standing Orders, the Lord Chancellor be enabled to put the question of each stage of the measure, at such times as the House might think necessary.

Lord BROUGHAM thought it absolutely necessary to give the Lord-Lieu- tenant of Ireland the 'dangerous powers conferred by this bill; and be wil- lingly seconded Lord Lansdowne's motion. But it would be a fallacy to suppose the measure was wanted to secure the Bri- tish empire in Ireland, or to prevent a disseverance: it was required only to pre- vent efforts at disseverance, which, though they must end in the discomfiture Of the rebels, would be made in all the horrors of bloodshed and confusion, and would fall heaviest on the innocent and peaceable. He observed that one of the worst of the papers which had been read to the House was the production of a person now in prison for sedition: he hoped there was law to prevent this, and that it would be made impossible to convert prisons into places whence new de- clarations of treason might be made and sedition be sowed broadcast among, the people. The Earl of Wicw.Low also insisted particularly on this point. Lord LANSDOWNE said that inquiry had already been made, and there was rea- son to believe that none of the writings professing to be written in NM- gate prison had really been written there, but by persons still at large, on behalf of and in the name of the prisoner. The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH believed, that if this bill had been intro- duced-eight months earlier, it would have:prevented a rebellion, which it will now only precipitate.

Nothing will now prevent a rebellion in the South but an arming of the North. If the Government go into the struggle without organization of the well-af- fected, and without the arming of friends, it will place the country in the condi- tion of having to undergo a long and bloody contest, while it had the means of rendering it short, if not of preventing its possibility.

Lord Lazonxisvia replied with some warmth, that with respect to the

time and the necessity, the reasons for and against the present measure, and upon the whole course taken by Government, he would meet Lord Ellenborough at a fitting opportunity. Meanwhile, he would not be pro- voked into replying to the only speech of the kind that had been delivered in either House of Parliament.

The Earl of GLENGALL rose to allude to a point lately referred to. He had great pleasure in declaring that all the accounts he received from Ire- land—and they were numerous—agreed in describing the conduct of the Roman Catholic clergy as most satisfactory and praiseworthy. Lord Lansdowne's motion was unanimously agreed to; and the bill passed through all its stages very quickly.

On Tuesday at noon, the Royal assent was signified by Commissioners.

THE FABRICATED REPORT FROM IRELAND.

In the House of Commons, on Thursday, amidst profound attention, Mr. MONSELL alluded to the reports received that day in London from Liver- pool, purporting to announce open rebellion in Ireland, defeat of troops, disaffection among the soldiers, &c.; and asked for Ministerial explanations.

Sir GEORGE GREY made the desired statement.

He had reason to believe that the intelligence received by the electric telegraph NM destitute of foundation. It was first transmitted to him by Mr. Ricardo; whom he at once requested to communicate by telegraph with the Mayor of Liver- pool; and the following facts were ascertained. The information was conveyed to the office of the Electric Telegraph Company, early on Thursday morning, having been directed to a news-agent, who communicated it to that office, and left with him by a cabman. With it was sent a letter purporting to be written by Mr. Conway of the Dublin Evening Post office, dated Wednesday, and containing these sentences—" Mr. Conway. has just received from Cashel most frightful news; which is now being pat into type for a second edition. He sends a slight outline to Messrs. Wilmer and Smith, by special engine from Kingston; and they will get it by telegraph in time for second editions. The parcel is sent by a Queen's messenger, who is charged with Government despatches." The cabman said that the parcel was given him by a Queen's messenger, who was said to have left Liverpool for London by a special train at six o'clock. No messenger came by train at that hoar, and no such intelligence had been brought over to Liverpool by the usual packet. Sir George believed that the report had been fabricated from malicious motives; and measures had been taken to discover and punish its author.

Sir George took the opportunity of stating, that Sir Charles Napier's fleet had reached the Cove of Cork, at a most opportune time to support the troops. Those troops were ready at any moment to discharge their duties with gallantry and efficiency, and any imputations on their fidelity were utterly false and fallacious.

Mr. GEORGE ALEXANDER HAMILTON asked whether it was the wish of Government that gentlemen connected with Ireland should leave London and repair to their own districts; Mr. Hamilton intimating that they placed themselves at the disposal of the Executive.

Sir GEORGE GREY replied—

"Sir, several gentlemen connected with Ireland have called upon me in the course of the day, stating their readiness to proceed immediately to Ireland to render their services available in the service of the country; and, though I have every reason to believe the information which has been alluded to entirely desti- tute of truth, yet the state of the country where the insurrection is reported is such, that I think Irish gentlemen of property and influence cannot do better than proceed to that country, and use their efforts in their respective neighbour- hoods where they have influence in the maintenance of order."

Sir ARTHUR BROOKE hoped that the well-affected in Ireland would be sufficiently supplied with arms and ammunition: in the North they have only rusty yeomanry rifles and muskets.

A discussion arose on the expediency of postponing the Landlord and Tenant Bill in the absence of the Irish Members; Ministers proposing to lay it aside for a fortnight; which met the approval of the House. In this discussion, Lord Jolla RUSSELL repeated the wish expressed by his col- league- " the reports that have been referred to are, I trust, happily without foundation, yet the accounts received from the Lord-Lieutenant show that at Car- rick-on-Sair' and other places, persons whom I need not name have been doing their utmost to rouse the people to rise at once in rebellion, and to urge them on to immediate insurrection. I think that this fact is quite enough to show that it is desirable that gentlemen connected with Ireland should immediately go to that country."

Mr. SCULLY rose, and abruptly asked if the noble Lord was prepared to give an answer as to the measures which had been repeatedly promised, and which had been contumaciously refused this session. (" Oh f")

Lord JOHN RUSSELL—" Sir, I deny the affirmation introduced by the honour- able Member; and as to his question, 1 have only to say that I think the present duty of the Government is to put down insurrection--(Loud cries of "Hear, hear! ) --and we shall devote all our energies and means to that object (Cheers.) I can, therefore, give no other answer to the honourable Member. (Loud cheering.)

In the House of Lords, at the instance of Lord BROUGHAM, similar explanations were given by the Marquis of LANSDOWNE. The Marquis Of LONDONDERRY seized the occasion to signify his hearty support of Ministers in their present course.

THE IRISH MEMBERS AND REPEAL.

On Wednesday, on the reading of the order of the day for resuming the Repeal debate, Mr. MAXWELL Fox moved that the order be discharged. He was prepared to go on with the debate, but thought it wrong to do so in the absence of the head of the Repeal agitation in Ireland; and parti- cularly just now, he would not be a party to increasing a delusion, for Repeal is but Republicanism in disguise. The SPEAKER having started a technical difficulty, Mr. Fox altered his motion to one that the debate be further adjourned to that day three months. Sir BENJAMIN HALL believed no intention existed from the first to divide on this question. Up to last Monday, the Irish Members had not resolved to bring on the division: they then resolved they would do so, and circulars to that effect went round: now, at twelve o'clock, they had the assurance to ask a postponement till next session! Mr. REYNOLDS replied tartly; and Mr. HENRY GRATTAN complained that the endeavours of Irish Members to throw oil on the troubled waters of the times should lay them open to charges of insincerity and hypocrisy. The people, however, will never cease to war for a domestic government, that will not take from the living their constitution and their liberty, or refuse to the dead a shroud and a burial.

Lord Jona RUSSELL believed that a wise and considerate feeling alone had prompted the Irish Members to seek a postponement of discussions which would add to the irritation in Ireland. Lord John said, he would willingly take part ia the debate at a future and more reasonable time for its renewal. It was agreed that the debate be postponed for three months. SALE OF MORTGAGED ESTATES IN IRELAND.

On Monday, the order of the day being the third reading of the En- cumbered Estates (Ireland) Bill, Sir Lucius O'BRIEN abandoned his intended opposition to the bill; and it was read a third time. On thi mo- tion of the SOLICITOR-GENERAL, a clause was added with the object of protecting the interests of remainder-men in cases of sales by a tenant for life. Mr. MONSELL moved the addition of Mr. Bouverie's proposed clause, with the object of exempting conveyances under the act from the lease-for- a-year stamp, or its equivalent. The Earl of LINCOLN pressed the adop- tion of this amendment on the Solicitor-General; and called on hfm to urge Ministers privately, if he thought he could not with decorum publicly, to reconsider the general subject of stamps on conveyances; with- out which the great boons intended to be the result of this measure will be but imperfectly realized. Lord Lincoln touched on the point of middle- men tenures of Ireland; a question with which this measure does not deal: he urged a separate consideration of and legislation upon it; and doubted not that if all parties would assist, means might be found, in purchases under this act, of setting a value on the interests of middlemen—a sort of barren encumbrances on the land—and paying them off out of the proceeds of the sale, so as to allow the occupant and his real landlord to come into beneficial cooperation with each other. The clause was opposed by the CRAtecisuLon of the EXCHEQUER, Mr. GOULBURN, Mr. HENLEY, and others; and was rejected on a division, by 114 to 55.

Sir Lucius O'BRiuN moved two provisos,—that no land beyond what would pay off the encumbrances, and that no family mansion and demesne, should be sold. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL opposed each. The first would be impracticable, or else would frustrate the intent of the act: the second is shown to be unnecessary, by the non-abuse of the unrestricted powers to sell mansions, &c. which are always found in wills and settle- ments. The provisos were negatived; and the bill was read a third time, and passed.

POOR-LAW AMENDMENT.

At a morning sitting of the House of Commons on Monday, Mr. CHARLES BULLER moved the second reading of the Poor-law Union Charges (No. 2) Bill; giving that full explanation of its provisions "which he ought to have undertaken when he brought in the bill." With only half-a-year's experience of his office, Mr. Buller felt that it would be unjustifiable in him to propose large changes on speculative grounds: it was only on the pressure of urgent necessity that he called the attention of Parliament to make the considerable changes contemplated by this bill. In the first place, the bill is intended to preserve and continue the Act 10th and 11th Victoria, cap. 110, which will expire on the 1st of October next; and so to carry out the principle that irremoveable paupers shall be charged no longer upon the parish, but u the whole union. The first subject on which Mr. Buller proposes change is t of vagrancy; complaints regarding which are general. He does not think va- grancy an evil curable by act of Parliament; nor does he think that the principle of relief as now laid down can be altered for the better ; bat he does think that great control over the extent of the evil may be exercised in the administration of the law.

He had therefore prepared .a circular letter to the Poor-law Guardians, in which

he inculcated a more discriminating spirit of administration, and engaged to take on himself the responsibility of whatever might be done in an honest spirit towards diminishing the- present monstrous evils.- This circular would be printed and presented to Parliament in a few days; and till that should be done, Mr. Buller asked further indulgence on this head. The incidental charges of vagrancy are now borne exclusively by the parish in which relief is applied for, or in which the relief officer happens to live; and many ingenious shifts and stratagems are resort- ed to by parish authorities to throw these burdens on the shoulders of each other. The Guardians of one parish persuaded their relieving-officer that his merits were such that they must give him a new house to live in rent-free. On taking pos-

session of his domicile, he discovered it was just on the confines of a rival parish; upon which, as a result, fell the whole burden of the vagrant relief which be dis-

pensed. The evil becomes the greater to individual parishes because the adminis- tration of the law is now wholly in the hands of the union authorities: the Union Board has little interest in preventing vagrancy in any particular parish, while the expenses of each parish are contributed by itself. Mr. Buller proposes to at- tack these evils by transferring the expenses of vagrancy from individual pa- rishes to the union, and making them a union charge; not to be assessed, however,

as "establishment charges" are, but to be levied on equal contributions from all the valuable property. in the union. Thus there will, for the first time, be esta- blished a uniform union rate.

The question will then arise, can two principles of rating be concurrently used —one general and uniform, and the other on the old system of averages acco to the presumed use made by each parish of the joint workhouse? or shall union charges once for all be put upon a uniform system? The old inequalities of parish mismanagement have ceased with the continuance of union manage- ment. The duties of union officers, and those of the clerk to the Guardians. in attending Board meetings and preparing Parliamentary returns, refer to unpauper- ized as well as pauperized parishes. Medical relief has become wide and generaL The unpauperized parishes benefit even more than the pauperized by the deter- ring influence of union management. In fact, no line can be drawn where the services of officers cease to benefit the individual parishes of a union. But there is a particular abuse under the present mode, which will if unchecked by change bring the whole system of relief about our ears,—the abuse of clearing parishes, by pulling down cottages or letting them go to ruin, with the object of expelling paupers and lessening the parish averages. Indeed, the whole system of averages is one of fraudulent squabbling between parieh and pariah. With a view to meet these evils, Mr. Buller brought forward the third change proposed by his bill, whereby establishment charges as well as all others are to be placed on a common footing, and charged on one common fund, to be raised by a general union rate assessed on the rateable property of the whole union. A difficulty in the way of levying a general union rate is the inequality of the present assessments of dif- ferent parishes: would not the county-rate be a satisfactory basis? If no serious objections arose, he proposed as a general principle, that the union charges should be based on the valuation of each parish in the union to the county-rate. He anticipated a grave objection to the principle of his bill—that, in admitting the principle of union rating, he had admitted the small end of the wedge, and nothing less than a national rating would be the end of the change. But the House should not be deterred from doing right in a practical question by a fear that a good principle will be carried too far: all our old institutions may come down about our ears if thus upheld: it is often noticeable that resistance made to the small end of the wedge has resulted in its being driven in butt-end foremost. He confessed, with humiliation before enlightened reformers, that he was not yet

converted to the unqualified doctrine of chargeability on union rather than paro-

chial areas. Still, he could not contend against what he felt was a growing conviction against parochial rating, unless he could so modify it as to avoid pre- sent evils. He unhesitatingly condemned, as dangerous and impracticable, any system of national rating; though he admitted the fatal growth of feeling in that direction. On the whole, he adhered to parochial chargeability, but would throw the charge over as large an area as the union. The bill also made extra-parochial places chargeable with their own poor, un- less such places should prefer to be joined to a parish.

• Mr. HENLEY expressed thankfulness for the calm and lucid exposition that Mr. Buller had given of an intricate and difficult subject, and for the frank statement he had made of his views.

He looked on the remarks of Mr. Buller about rating as prognosticating the break-down of the whole of our parochial system. Relief should be made more a matter of police than it is at present. A proper distinction between the vagrant and the really destitute poor, however, would never be possible till va- grancy were treated as an offence. !As to the union houses, instead of being a test of destitution, they do but afford under the presentsystem an absolute premium to the idle and dissolute pauper. As to the subject of rating, Mr. Buller evaded the difficulties, rather than grappled with them; and these piecemeal changes from year to year will suddenly end in a national rating. Mr. Henley moved that the second reading be taken that day six months.

It was arranged that the debate should be continued on Thursday.

The debate was continued on Thursday; the measure being supported by Mr. RICE and Mr. VERNON SMITH; opposed by Mr. ROUNDELL PAL- MER, Captain PECHELL, Mr. HENRY DRUMMOND, and Mr. BANKES. On the motion of Sir HENRY WILLOUGHBY, the debate was again adjourned.

COLONIAL. GOVERNMENT.

On Tuesday, after a good deal of time had been occupied with other business, Sir WILLIAM MOLESWORTH was at last enabled to introduce his motion on the Colonies. The scope of his speech was to establish, " first, that the Colonial expenditure can be diminished without detriment to the interests of the empire; second, that the system of Colonial policy and go- vernment can be so amended as to insure more economical and altogether better government for the Colonies; and lastly, that by these reforms the resources of the Colonies would be developed, they would become more useful, and their inhabitants more attached to the British empire."

In speakingof the " Colonies," he excluded the possessions of the East India Company. The Colonial empire of Great Britain contains between four and five millions of square miles, an area equal to the whole of Europe and British India added together: of this vast space about one million of square miles have been divided into forty different colonies, each with a separate govern- ment; four of them are in Europe, five in North America, fifteen in the West Indies, three in South America, five in Africa and its vicinity, three among the Asiatic islands, and five in Australia and New Zealand. The population of these colonies does not exceed five millions: of this number about 2,500,000 are of European race; of whom about 500,000 are French, about 350,000 Ionians and Maltese, a few are Dutch or Spanish,- and the remainder, amounting to about 1600,000, are of English, Irish, or Scotch descent. Of tho2,500,000 inhabitants of the Colonies who are not of European race, about 1,400;000 are Cingalese and other inhabitants of Ceylon, and 1,100,000 are of African •origin. In 1844, the date of the last complete return, the declared value of British produce and manu- factures exported to the Colonies amounted to about nine millions sterling. The whole Colonial expenditure of the British empire is about eight millions sterling a year-' one half of which is defrayed by the Colonies, and one half by Great Bri- tain. That portion of the Colonial expenditure which is defrayed by Great Bri- tain consists of Military, Naval, Civil, and Extraordinary expenditure." The net military expenditure of Great Britain on account of the Colonies, in the year 1843-4, the date of the last return, was 2,556,9191.; and un- der various head; the same expenditure figures in the Parliamentary Estimates of the current year at 2,500,000/. He calculated that about forty-five ships, with a complement of 8,000 men, are-employed on Colonial service; and the Naval ex- penffiture' exclusively of reliefs, a portion of the packet service, &c., would exceed 1,000,0001. The Civil expenditure;:including about 27,0001.. for the Colonial Office, and 20,0001. a year for Ecclesiastical establishments, is about 300,0001. " Lastly, wider the head of extraordinary expenditure by Great Britain on ab- %Mitt of the Colonies' I put down such items as the insurreotiaa in Canada, for which in the interval between 1838 and 1843 there were, special grants to the amount of 2,096,0001.; as the Kafir war, on account of which there is a special grant this year of 4,100,0001., and for which we shall have probably to pay eight or nine hundred thousand pounds more; as the Maori war in New Zealand, which at a low estimate will cost half a million; as 214,0001. for the payment of the debts of South Australia' 1842; as relief of sufferers by fire and other disasters in the Colonies, for which we gave 50,0001. in 1846; as the risk of non-payment of loans, such as 286,0001. to be lent to the New Zealand Company, and this year 716,0001. lent or to be lent to the West Indians; and innumerable other items. On the average of the last ten years, 200,0001. a year would have been wholly in- adequate to cover the extraordinary expenditure of Great Britain on account of the Colonies. I will put it down, however, at 200,0001. a year-' and I will omit all mention of the sums paid for emancipating the Negroes in the Colonies, and the civil expenditure on account of our attempt to suppress the slave-trade, which many persons would charge to the account of extraordinary Colonial expenditure." Taking together the four heads that he had mentioned—Military, Naval, Civil, and Extraordinary—the total expenditure on account of the Colonies would amount to at least 4,000,0001. a year; but he believed that the actual expendi- ture would be much greater. "The declared value of British produce and manufactures exported to the Colenies in the year 1844 was nine millions sterling, including one million's worth of exports to Gibraltar, which are sent to Gibraltar to be smuggled into Spain. Therefore the expenditure of Great Britain on account of the Colonies amounts to nine shillings in every pound sterling of its exports; or, in other words, for every pound's worth of goods that our merchants send to the Colonies, the nation pays nine shillings; in fact, a large portion of our Colonial trade consists of goods which are sent to defray the expenses of our establishments in the Colonies. Now what are the advantages that we derive from our Colonial possessions? Colonies are to be divided into two classes,—those useful for political purposes, as military stations; and colonies properly so called, valuable for commercial par- poses. " Our military stations are Heligolind, Gibraltar, Malta, the Ionian Is- lands' Bermuda, the stations on the West coast of Africa, St. Helena, the Cape of Good Hope, the Mauritius Hong-kong, Labnan, and the Falkland Islands. What do these stations cost us—of what use are they to this country? They are called the outposts of the British empire, and they are supposed to be useful in periods of war, for purposes of aggression." But, so far removed from the centre of the empire, they would be sources of weakness rather than of strength in war, and in the event of a really serious struggle, like all outposts, would be abandoned. He stated the cost of the stations that he had named. The Mediter- ranean Colonies, Gibraltar, Malta, and Ionia, a with garrisons of 8,000 troop; cost about 500,0001.; besides a fleet of twenty-three ships and 5,000 men, costing about 500,0001. The Bermudas have a garrison of 1,200 men, at a cost of 90,0001.; besides 600,0001. spent in naval and ordnance work; which will take 260,0001. more to complete them. St. Helena costs 40,0001. a year the West African set- tlements, 52,0001.; besides half a million spent annually on the vain attempt to suppress the slave-trade—but he excluded that from the Colonial expenditure. To abandon the fleet and the colony of Sierra Leone, would save the country at least 450,0001. a year.

The Cape of Good Hope is not of much importance as a commercial colony. The declared value of our exports to it was 458,0001., of our imports from it only 258,0001.; the military expenditure of 1843-4, 294,0001., or 50 per cent on our exports. In 1843, the troops numbered 2,951 rank and file; last year at one time, they numbered 5,470 rank and file.

" This increase was in consequence of the Kafir war; and for the same reason the fleet on this station was increased to nine ships, with a complement of 1,700 men; which fleet must have cost this country at the rate of 170,0001. a year. For that war we have already paid 1,100,0001., and in all probability 800,0001. or 900,0001. more will be required to close the account. The House will not be astonished at this expenditure, when it is informed, in the words of Sir 11a

Smith, that in the last bit of a brush with a Kafir chief called Sandilla, 56,007 were expended in waggon-hire alone.' One word with regard to that war; for it

is a most striking instance of the pranks that Colonial Governors can play, of the

little control that a Secretary of State for the Colonies can exercise over them, and of the dangers to which this country is perpetually liable, under the present Colonial system, of having vast sums of money expended upon a worthless colony. The Cape of Good Hope is the Algeria of England. The Kafir war which has just terminated was, I believe, the fourth in the last thirty years. The one which preceded It is said to have cost this country half a million sterling. All these wars have originated from nearly the same cause,—namely, cattle-stealing along a frontier of upwards of 700 miles. Sometimes the Kafirs stole, or were accused of stealing, the cattle of the colonists; the colonists retaliated; then they came to blows; blood was shed; the Colonial Government interfered; a large expendi- ture of public money ensued, to be paid for out of the Imperial treasury. This was the case in the last war. With regard to the origin of that war there is a great difference of opinion. Some persons, apparently with great reason, ascribe it to the'discontinuance of the system of Sir Benjamin D'Urban, and the adoption of the mistaken policy of the Missionaries; and they maintain that the war was inevitable, and only too long delayed by attempts to conciliate the Kars. Other persona, with much show of reason, ascribe its origin and its success to the haste and indiscretion of the Governor, Sir Peregrine Maitland. However this may be, the immediate cause of the war was this. A Kafir on the frontier stole an axe. He was arrested and sent off to prison. On the road a rescue was attempted; a con-. filet ensued; on the one side a Kafir, on the other a Hottentot constable was slain; and the prisoner was rescued. Application was then made to certain Kafir chiefs to give up the offenders. They refused, on the grounds that the Colonial authorities were not entitled by treaty to send a Kafir to prison for such a trifle as stealing an axe, and that the blood of the Hottentot had been paid for in the blood of the Kafir first killed; and they entreated the Governor not to be in haste with forces, but to have a talk about the matter and try to understand it. How- ever, the Governor at once hastened to the frontier; by his orders Kafirland was invaded; but every arrangement was so ill made that our troops were repulsed; twice our baggage-waggons were cut off; and the victorious Kafirs, in their turn,

invaded the wimp.. For mom Sir Peregrine Maitland lived in the bush, enduring (according to his own account) unheard-of hardships; when he was very pro-

perly superseded. Great was the amazement and indignation of his suc- cessor, Sir Henry Pottinger, at the state of affairs which he discovered in the colony. He declares that he cannot give an adequate idea of the confusion, unauthorized expense, and (as he believed) attendantpeculation which had ob- tained.' In that peculation it is rumoured that men of high station were impli- cated. Numerous instances of reckless expenditure are stated in Sir Henry's despatches. One of a settlement on the Kat River, where the few inhabitants were, on the plea of defending the frontier, receiving rations at the rate of 21,0001. a year. Another in the vicinity of a station called Block Drift, where rations had been regularly given to a number of Kafirs who had been fighting against us I

Sir Henry attempted to put a atop to these abuses; and the war seemed to be drawing to a close, when, unfortunately, fourteen goats were lost. They were

tracked across the frontier into the territory of a Kafir chief; he was required to

restore them, and to give up the supposed thief. Twelve of the goats were im- mediately sent back; 'bat the chief denied all knowledge of the other two, and of

the thief, if there were one. Sir Henry Pottinger was not satisfied. He ordered

a secret expedition into Kafirland, to surprise the chief in question. The expedi- tion, as usual, failed; the chief escaped; the troops retreated, after having killed

a few Kafirs, and carried off some head of cattle; and the war was kindled afresh.

Throughout Sir Henry Pottinger was thwarted by a divided command; and the ggrreeaaterrtion of his trees were unsuitidf or the service which they had to per- . For insane.; old officeraf the Peninsula, accustomed to regular warfare, were intent upon displaying their strategic skill in a contest with savages--heavy

dragoons mounted upon chargers, armed with rifles impossible to load on horse-

back. English regiments, with their ordinary clothing and accoutrements, had, under the burning sun of Africa, to attack Kafirs a-ulking in a bush all but

impenetrable to Europeans. In such a war seven British regiments, with ar-

tillery and engineers, were not a match for half the number of naked savages arm- ed with assegais. The war would never have been brought to a close, had it

not been for the Colonial corps; who, composed of Hottentots led on by brave and

energetic young English officers, followed the spoor of the Kafirs,aptured their cattle, and hunted them down like wolves. By these means Sir Henry Pottinger

brought the war to a close, just as he was succeeded by Sir Harry Smith. Sir Harry Smith, in addition to other marvellous feats, has made the Kafir chiefs kiss his foot, has proclaimed himself their only Inkosi Walla (great chief), and has added, on the North of the colony, some 40,000 square miles (about the size of England)

of as barren a desert, to use the words of the Surveyor-General, as is to be found upon the earth's crust. Thus the loss of one axe and two goats on the frontier

o f the Cape of Good Hope has cost this country a couple of millions sterling, and given rise to a war unparalleled in the history of nations since the far-famed strife of the Big and Little Endians." Sir William attached no blame to Lord Grey or his predecessor for this war— he believed no one was more surprised by the bill for it than Lord Grey: it was owing to the system; but, with seven hundred miles of savage frontier, war must

inevitably recur. "There is but one means of securing our purses for 'the future, —namely, by withdrawing our troops from the frontier, and letting the colonists

distinctly understand that they must defend themselves, and pay the coat of such defence. Then they will have the strongest motives to prevent the commence- ment and to hasten the termination of a Kafir war. In return for so doing, they should receive free institutions, and have complete control over their own ex penditure. Then a thousand troops would be a sufficient garrison for Cape Town and in ordinary years there might be a saving at the Cape, in military expendi tare alone, to the amount of at least 200,0001. a year." If public money must be spent, it had better be spent in emigration. Emigrants can be sent to the

Cape at 101. a head; each soldier landed in the colony costs about 601. a year; so that if our military force were reduced by 1,500, we might send out 9,000 emi- grants each year, with such rapid increase of the population as would enable the colonists to defend the frontier against the Kafir3.

To Mauritius the declared value of our exports is 285,0001. The annual cost is at least 92,0001.; and we are going to spend 150,0001. in improved defences. What is all this military expense for? To keep down the justly discontented planters? Ceylon is properly not a colony, but part of our subjugated Indian pos- sessions: our exports to it are 240,0001.; it costs us 110,00014 but the import

trade, especially of coffee, is rapidly increasing. Hong-kong figures in the Esti- mates for 94,5141., besides 40,0001. for troops, and 45,0001.for naval and mili- tary expenditure in the China seas. Labuan makes its first appearance in the Estimates this year—[Mr4Hume—"Ha, hot' Laughter]—for 9,8271.; of which. 2,0001. is the salary of his Excellency Rajah Brooke of Sariwak. [" Ba, hal" Laughter.] The desolate Falkland Islands, once wisely abandoned, now resumed, cost 5,0001, a year.

Thus, the twelve military stations and Ceylon cost 1,300,0001. a year; exclu- sively of extraordinary expenditure for Kafir wars, &c., which may be set down

at an average of 100,0001. a year; and exclusively of the four large fleets at the Mediterranean, African, Cape, and Chinese stations, which must cost 1,500,0001. "What I propose to the House is this: to withdraw our military protection from the Ionian States, to dispense with our stations and fleet on the West coast of Africa, to reduce our establishments at the Cape and the Mauritius, and to bestow upon those Colonies free institutions; to transfer Ceylon to the East India Company; to keep a sharp watch over the expenditure for Hong kong, Labium, and Sariwak, and to acknowledge the claim of Buenos Ayres to the Falkland Wands. Then 10,000 men, instead of 22,000, would be sufficient to garrison the military stations in the following manner: 6,000 for Malta and Gibraltar; 4,000 for Bermuda, the Cape, the Mauritius, and Hong-kong. If this were done, there -would-be a reduction in military and naval expenditure to the amount of at least a million, a year for the military stations alone." He now came to the Colonies property so called, in North America, the West 'Indies, and Australasia. For what purposes were colonies originally planted by England? "Little more than two centuries ago, some of the inhabitants of this island, being uneasy at home, migrated to America. They were prudent and en- ergetic men, of the true Anglo-Saxon breed, which is best fitted to wage war with 'the savage and the forest: being left alone, they flourished; and in the course of .a -few years, without costing one farthing to this country, they became a numerous and a thriving people. Then the shopkeepers and other traders of England wish- ed to secure their custom; and, according to the notions of the day, they peti- tioned Parliament that the colonists should be confined to the English shop—first, for buying all the goods they wanted in Europe, secondly for selling all such parts of their produce as the English traders might find it convenient to buy. Parlia- ment acceded to this request. Thence the old system of Colonial monopoly, which was the sole end and aim of the dominion which England assumed over her Colonies. To maintain that monopoly and that dominion, vast sums were 'expended, costly wars were waged, and huge military and naval establishments *were kept up: but it was always supposed that the expense thus incurred was re- paid by the benefits derived from the monopoly of the Colonial trade. I will not attempt to strike the balance of past profit or loss. It is evident, however, that with the abandonment of Colonial monopoly, the arguments in favour of Colonial dominion, which were derived from that monopoly, must likewise be abandoned." Since free trade has been our policy—that last remnant of monopoly, the Navigation- laws, about to perish—the North American Colonies have become in many respects independent states; and all the benefit we derive from our dominion over them lies m the power of preventing them from enacting hostile tariffs. The amount of this benefit depends upon the value of our exports. "The declared value of the exports of British produce and manufactures to the North American, •West Indian, and Australasian Colonies, for the year 1844, the last return, was about '61000,0001; the direct expenditure by Great Britain on account of these Cola mes cannot be less than two millions sterling a year. Now, is it worth while to spend a couple of millions a year to guard against the possibility of a diminution In our export trade of 6,000,0001. a year. 1 pat this question to any mercantile man—would it be worth his while to. pay 6s. 8d. in the pound on the value of his goods; to secure that those goods shall freely compete with the goods of other na- tionsin the markets of the North American, West Indian, and Australasian Co- lonies? And if it be not worth his while, is it worth our while to pay it for him?"

In the American Colonies the military force amounts to about 9,000 men; the total direct expenditure by Great Britain is 736,6901.; besides extraordinary ex- penditures [insurrection in 1838 and 1843, 2,096,0001., aid to sufferers by fire, 50,0001.; and smaller sums reckoned at 193,1741. a year;] so that those Colo- nies have cost 1,000,0001. a year, and now at least cost 800,0001. a year. The declared value of our exports is 2,600,0001.: now is it worth while to. pay 800,0001., or'30 per cent, merely to guard against the possibility of some diminu- tion in that trade?

The United States of America are still colonies of Great Britain, as Carthage was of Rome, or Ionia and Sicily were colonies of Greece. They. are in every point of view more useful to us than all our other Colonies put together. "In 1844, we exported to the United States produce and manufactures to the value of 8,000,0001.—an amount equal to the whole of our real import trade to all our Colonial dominions, which we govern at a cost of 4,000,000e a year; while the United States costs us for Consular. and Diplomatic services not more -than 15;0001. a year, and not one ship of war is required to protect our trade with the United States; in fact, a British ship of war is very rarely seen off the coasts of the United States. Again, more emigrants go directly from this country to the United States than to all our other Colonies put together. In the last ten years, cording to-the returns of the Emigration Commissioners, 1,042,000 emigrants eft this country, of which number 552,000 went directly to the United States. How many went indirectly through Canada I cannot undertake to say. Last year 251,000 persons emigrated from Great Britain to North America; 142,000 of whom went directly to the Western States, the remaining 109,000 to the Colo- nies. At present it is considered that colonies are chiefly useful as affording markets for our produce and outlets for our population. It is evident that in both these respects independent colonies are as useful as dependent ones. I do not propose to abandon the North American Colonies; but if we are compelled to choose between the alternative of the continuation of the present vast expenditure and that of abandoning these Colonies, it is evident that the latter alternative would be the more profitable one in an economical point of view. But I maintain, that if we govern our North American Colonies as we ought to govern them, fol- low out rigorously the principle of responsible government, and leave them to ma- nage their own affiiirs, uncontrolled by the Colonial Office, we may with safety diminish our military force and expenditure, and they will willingly continue to be our subjeots." In the West Indies, the military force amounts to 6,000 men: the expenditure is 593,8341, swelled by extraordinary payments—such as packet service, Tobago loans, immigration advances, &c.—to 700,0001. a year; just one fourth of the Takes of our exports on the average of the five years ending 1844, and the exports are continually decreasing. However, he did not purpose to abandon those Colo- nies, unless at their express wish, •but only to reduce the military force to half its present amount, with an annual saving 300,0001. a year.

In the Australian Colonies, including New Zealand, the number of troops is about 5,000 men; and the gross expenditure of Great Britain about 300,0001.; exclusively of such items as 15,4021. for the abandonment of Lord Stanley's co- lony of North Australia, 214,9361 paid for Colonel Gawler's extrsvagancies in South Australia, and unknown sums for the follies of Captain Hobson and Cap- tain Fitzroy in New Zealand. The ships in those settlements must cost about '80,0001.4 year. The declared value of our exports, in 1844, was only 1,000,0001. ayear; the expenditure, therefore, being 30 per cent on the exports. Not a single soldier would have been needed in Australia, except to keep the convicts in order; nor in New Zealand, but for the preposterous mismanagement. He would, how- ever, allow 2,000 for the convicts, and 1,000 for New Zealand. " Thus it appears that the military force in the North American, Weet Indian, and Australian Co- lonies, amounts to about 20,000 men; and the direct expenditure by Great Bri- tain to about 2,000,0001 a year. I should propose to reduce that force to 10,000 men; whereof 4,000 would be sufficient for North America, 3,000 for the West Indies, and 3,000 for. Australia; and then, in my opinion, less than 1,000,0001. a year would suffice to defray the expenses of those Colonies to Great Britain." Therefore the whale reduction ofColouial expenditure which he proposed was 2,000,0001. a year. But hebelieved that a further reduction might be made in the commercial Colonies, if complete control were given to them over their own affairs on condition that they should pay their own expenses.

An effectual check over Colonial expenditure is prevented by the inconceivable delays in auditing the Colonial accounts. Accounts of four or five years date from several Colonies are still lying in the Audit Office, unaudited—uf six years' date from Ceylon, of eight years' from the Cape of Good"Hope, and of ten yea& from Mauritius.

Sir William entered into calculations to show that the rate of expenditure in the Colonies with representative institutions is less than half what it is in the Colonies without representative institutions. The total expenditure by all the Colonies, with some exceptions, for a population of 3,400,000, is 3,350,0001.; the annual expenditure being 19s. 8d. per head. The Colonies he excepted are—Ceylon, which is not properly a colony; the settlements on the West coast of Africa, which have no trustworthy population-returns; and the -Ionian Islands, whose expenditure is not included in the return from which he 'quoted. "The Colonies with Representative Assemblies have a population of about 2,580,000; and their expenditure in 1846 was 1,930,0001., or at the rate of 148.-11d. per head of their population. On the other hand, the population of the Colonies without Representative Assemblies was about 820,000; and their expen- diturein 1845 was 1,420,0001., or at the rate of 11. 14s. a head for their popula- tion, or 18s. 7d. a head more than in the Colonies with Representative Assem- blies. I am convinced that this great increase of the rate of expenditure in the Crown Colonies is mainty to be attributed to the want of self-government; for it is most apparent when the rate of expenditure in each class of Colonies is ex- amined and considered separately. For instance, the rate of expenditure is the lowest .in the North American Colonies, where there is the greatest amount of self-government." The -rate of expenditure in the 'North Ame- rican Colonies, in 1835, was '13s. 4d per head; lint, excluding certain extra- ordinary and temporary charges, the rate is only . 9s. a heed. "-Though this rate of expenditure is low as compared to our other Colonies, yet it is about 30 per cent higher than that of the United States for similar :pur- poses. The difference mainly arises from the high scale of salaries paid to the higher functionaries in the North American Colonies. Generally s 'lig,- those functionaries receive from three to four times the amount of the salaries of similar functionaries in the United States. For instance, in the Canadas, with a population of 1,200,000, the Governor is paid 7,0001. a year. In the United States, the President has only 5,000/ a year. There is no Go- vernor who has more than 1,2001. a year; and in the State of New York, with a population of 2,600,000, the Governor only receives 8001. a year. In feet, the four North American Colonies which I have mentioned, ['Canada,' Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and Newfoundland,] pay 2,5001. a year more for the salaries of their four Governors than the thirty States of the Union do for their thirtyGo- vernors." The salaries are fixed by various civil lists, which are a perpetual source of discontent and quarrelling. In Canada, the dispute about the Civil List was one of the causes of insurrection; and the Colonial Office is still involved • in a Civil List quarrel with British Guiana. The thirty Governors in the United States receive 14,0001. a year, an average of 4601. a year each : eighteen British Colonies pay for their own Governors 72,000/ a year, an average of .4,0001. a- year; ROMS -receiving as much as 5,0001., 6,5001., and 7,0001. each. " This rate-of pay is not too high for noble lords and gentle- men of rank, sent out as Governors; but if we are determined to employ such persons in the Colonies, we ought to pay for them ourselves. On the other hand, if we insist upon the Colonies paying their Governors, it appears to me that, with the exception of the military stations, we should permit the Colonies to elect their own Governors and other functionaries, and to pay them what salaries they think fit."

In the West Indies, the Colonies with Representative Assemblies expend at the rate of 12e. lOds per-head; those-without Representative Assemblies, at the rate of 11. 9s. The Gape of Good Hope and Mauritius, Crown Colonies, are grie- vously taxed; and pay about 11. 7s. per head. Malta, twice as thickly peopled as the Ionian Islands, pays 16s. 6d.; the Ionian Islands only 14s. 3d. In Ceylon, the expenditure is no more than 6s. 7d; but, considering the nature of the population, which is analogous to that of India, the expenditure is excessive. In New Soutl9Wales, the expenditure in 1841 was 350,0001., or Si. 4s. a head. After the grant of a Representative Assembly, in 1843, the expenditure was reduced, by 1846, with a greatly increased population, to 254,0001., or only 11. 88. a head. In Van Diemen's Land, in 1844, the expenditure was 41.6s. a head. In Sonth Australia, sehicfflecame bankrupt through the extravagance of Governor Gawler, the expenditure was at one time 101. a head. In 'Western Australia, the ex- penditure exceeds the income; and New Zealand receives 20,000/ or 30,0001 a year for its civil government; exclusively of the bill that will have to be paid for the Maori war, the loan to the New Zealand Company, &c. In passing, Sir William touched upon the constitution which was sent out to New Zealand and immediately revoked by Lord Grey; inferring from recent acts that the intelligence of the revocation, when it reached the colony, would find re- presentatives hard. at work legislating for "New Munster," who would have to be dismissed with ignominy. ' A curious farce is the history of the management of this colony by the Colonial Office. This same nondescript New Zealand consti- tution was sent by the Colonial Office to New South Wales for the colonists to inspectsatid to see how they-would Pike a similar one. They have rejected it with scorn and contempt. I- am afraid; Sir, that the present Secretary of State for the Colonies, notwithstanding his very great abilities, -will- not be renowned in future history-as either the Solon or Lyenrgns of Australia." In the course of the last ten years, petitions against the administration of the Colonial Office, and praying for representative government, have been presented from .the Cape of Good Hope, -New South Wales, Tan Diemen's Land, Western Australia, South Australia, New Zealand British Guiana, Trinidad, St. Lucia, and Malta. All the petitions but one have been -rejected: New South Waled has obtained a-mongrel form of representative government, which will soon have to be amended.

Sir William did not mean to speak with disrespect of past or present Secretaries of-State for the Colonies; but he did condemn the system, and could quote very high authorities on his own side of the House; among others, his honourable friend the Member for Liskeard, the honourable gentleman the Member for Sheffield,

and the noble at the head of the Colonial Office, before he became Secretary of-State for the Colonies. So long as the system exists, the majority of the Colonies must be ill governed, and their inhabitants discontented; for the Colonial Office undertakes an impossible task.

"It undertakes the administration, civil, military, financial, judicial, and eccle- siastical, of some forty different communities, witlrvarions institutions, languages, laws, customs,. wants, and interests. It undertakes to legislate more or less for all these Colonies, and-altogether for those which have • no representative assem- blies. It would be difficult enough to discharge all these 'functions in a single office, if all- the Colonies were close together and close to England; but they are scattered over the surface of the globe from the Arctic to the Antarctic pole. To most of them several months must elapse, to some of them a whole year must elapse, before an answer to a letter can be received, before a petition can be com- plied with, or a grievance redressed. Therefore, orders-which are issued from the Colonial Office in accordance with the last advices from a colony are, in innu- merable instances, wholly unsuited to the state of the colony when the orders ar- rive; in some cases, questions which time has settled are reopened, forgotten dis- putes revived, and the tardy interference of the Colonial Office is felt to be a curse even when a wrong is redressed. In other cases, the instructions of the Colonial Office are wisely disregarded by the Governors, or- rejected with derision by the Colonial Assemblies, who marvel at the crass ignorance of their Transatlantic rulers. In addition to its other arduous functions, the Colonial Office is required to assist in the vain attempt to suppress the slave-trade with Africa; and it has likewise the difficult task of administering secondary punishment in a penal colony at the Antipodes. Now if -it were possible for any mortal man to discharge -the duties of such -an 'office, it is evident that he ought to possess, not merely great mental powers, but a long and intimate ac- quaintance with the affairs of the different Colonies: he should be brought up to the business; it should be the study of his life; and he should be appointed on account of special aptitude to conduct such business. Is this the rule for selecting Secretaries of State for the Colonies ? Nothing of the kind. They are generally chosen haphazard from the chiefs of the two great political parties in this or the other House of Parliament; and they retain their office, on the aver- age, some eighteen months or so. During the last nine years there have been no fewer than six Colonial Secretaries—namely, Lord Glenelg, Lord Normanby, Lord John Russell, Lord Stanley, Mr. Gladstone, and Lord Grey: all of them, I ac- knowledge, men of great ability; all of ;hem, I believe, most anxious to use their abilities for the benefit of their country and of the Colonies; but I feel per- suaded that one-third of them had little or no acquaintance with Colonial affairs prior to their acceptance of office: just, therefore, as they were probably beginning to learn the wants and interests of the more important colonies, and to acquire the first rudiments of Colonial lore, they were succeeded by some other statesman; who had to commence his lessons of Secretary of State for the Colonies, and.to try his hand in the despotic and irresponsible government of some score or so of dependent status In fact, the Colonial government of this country is an ever- slanging, frequently well-intentioned, but invariably weak and ignorant despotism. Its policy vanes incessantly, swayed about by opposite influences : at one time direct- ed perhaps by the West India body, the next instant by the Anti-Slavery Society; then by Canadian merchants, or by a New Zealand Company, or by a Missionary Society: it is everything by turns and nothing long—Saint, Protectionist, Free- trader, in rapid succession; one day it originates a project, the next day it aban- dons it: therefore all its schemes are abortions, and all its measures are unsuccess- ful. Witness the economical condition of the West Ladies, the frontier relations of the Cape of Good Hope, the immoral state of Van Diemen's Land, and the pseudo-systematic colonization and revoked constitution of New Zealand. Such a government -might suit serfs and other barbarians; but to men of our race— intelligent and energetic Englishmen, accustomed to freedom and to local self- government—it is one of the most hateful and odious governments that can well be imagined. It is difficult to express the deep-seated hatred and contempt which is felt for the Colonial Office by almost every dependency subject to its sway. If you doubt this fact, put the question to the West Indies and the Mauritius; put the same question to VanDiemen's Land, to New South Wales, to New Zealand, and your other Australian Colonies: from all of them you will receive the same answer, and the same prayer to be freed from the control of the Colonial Office. Even the Canadas are not content, though they have responsible government,' and though in most respects they are virtually independent of the Colonial Of- fice; yet every now and then the Colonial Office contrives to produce irritation by stupid interference in some question of minor importance, such as the regulations of a banking bill, or the amount of a petty salary. ":Though. the Colonies have ample reason to complain of the manner in which their affairs are administer al by the Colonial Office of this. country, they have still' greater reason to complain of-the Governors and other functionaries who are sent by the Colonial Office to the Colonies; for, generally speaking, theyare chosen not on account of any special aptitude for or knowledge of the business which they will have to, perform, but for reasons foreign to the interests of the Colonies. instance, nstance, poor relations or needy dependents of men having political influence, officers in the Army or. Navy who have been unsuccessful in their profession, briefless barristers, electioneering agents, importunate applicants for public em- ployment, whose employment in this country public 'opinion would forbid, and at times even discreditable partisans whom it is expedient to get rid of in the Colo- nies—these are the materials out of which the Coloniaitffice has too frequently manufactured its Governors and other functionaries. Therefore, in most cases they are signally unfit for the duties which they have to perform and being wholly ig- norant of the affairs of the colony to which they are appointed, they become the tools of one or other of the Colonial factions; whence perpetual jealousies and never-ending feuds. The Governors, the Judges, and the other high functionaries, are generallyon hostile terms. ,The Governors remove the Judges,the Judges. ap- peal to us for redress • every year a petition.or two of this kind comes under the consideration of Parliament. To settle such questions, the Colonial Office has just created a new itribunal, composed of an ex Indian Judge and Railway Com- missioner' and of an ex permanent Under-Secretary of State for the Colonies—the one with little knowledge of Colonial affairs; the other famed for years as the real head of the Colonial system, and therefore reputed as the evil genius of the Colo- nies. It would be easy to cite instances which have occurred during the last ten years which would illustrate every one of these positions. I forbearthowever, from: mentioning names, as the facts are notorious to every one who has taken any in- terest in Colonial "affairs. It is no wonder that the Colonies are discontented, and' that they are badly and expensively governed." He doubted whether the system could be amended. The colonists must be better judges of their own affairs than.men in Downing Street; and in Parliament they have something to do besides studying Colonial affairs. " It is only when we have to pay for a Canadian insurrection or a Kafir war that an outcry is raised and the Colonial Office is called to account; and then there is not above a score of us who know anything Shout the subject, even after a laborious study of the documents carefully prepared for the purpose by the Colonial Office. Re- member, likewise, that implicitreliance cannot be placed on mere documents.

Some, for i r instance, are long didactic despatches, written for the sole purpose of

being presented to Parliament, not intended to produce any specific results in the Colonies; bat fall of well-turned periods, containing lofty sentiments and appa- rently statesmanlike views, calculated to gain credit for the Office, and to satisfy the minds of honourable, ignorant, and confiding Meinbers—who soon afterwards forget all about the matter. Again, as a collection of materials for enabling Par- liament to form a judgment with regard to Colonial affairs, those documents are not to be trusted; for, generally speaking, they are tainted with partiality—and necessarily so—because they were selected out of a vast mass on account of their supposed importance, and of that importance the Colonial Office is the sole and irresponsible judge." The Colonial Office labours under a similar difficulty from partial accounts, and the distance which impedes explanation. Ignorance and irresponsibility, therefore, are the characteristic defects in our present mode of governing the Colonies. For these defects there is no remedy but local self- government; reserving only those powers the exercise of which in the colony would be inconsistent with the sovereignty of this country and injurious to the interests of the empire. To the empire the Colonies are useful either as affording markets for our pro- duce or outlets for our population. Mr. Charles Buller showed their value as mar- kets, in his admirable speech on Systematic Colonization, in 1843; when he showed, that while the rate of consumption of our goods does not exceed 2s. 2d. a head in Continental Europe, it amounts to 8s. a head in the United States, (which in this view he considered as still an English colony,) and 1/. 12s. a head in the Colonies so called; though it must be admitted that a portion of the trade to the latter consists of goods sent to defray the cost of establishments. The otility of the Colonies as outlets for popalation is shown in the reports of the Emigration Commissioners, who state that in the last twenty years 825,564 per- sons went to the United States; 702,101 to the North American Colonies; 127,000 to the Australian Colonies; 19,090 to other places; in all, 1,673,803. Emigration has varied considerably in amount; but on averages of five years it has steadily increased, from the minimum of 26,092 persons in 1828, to 258,270 persons last year.

' Therefore, free trade with the Colonies, and free access to the Colonies, should, in my opinion, be the sole end and aim of the dominion which Great Britain still retains over her Colonies. By keeping these two objects distinctly in view—by

bestowing upon the Colonies all powers of local legislation and administration which are not absolutely inconsistent with these objects and with the sovereignty of this country, I believe that our Colonial expenditure might be greatly dimin- ished in amount, and that our Colonial empire would flourish and become of in- calculable utility to this country. I do not propose to abandon any portion of that empire. I only complain that It is of so little use to as—that it is a vast tract of fertile desert, which costs us 4,000,0001. sterling a year, and yet only contains a million and a half of our race. Would it not be possible to people this desert with active and thriving Englishmen ?—to cover it with communities composed of men with wants, habits, and feelings similar to our own, anxious to carry on with us a mutual beneficial trade ?"

He believed that funds for the purpose might be found, according to the well

known plan of Mr. Wakefield, in systematic emigration and the sale of waste lands. But he would assume that funds must be obtained, for the present, from

some other source. " Now, I ask the House to consider, firs; that we spend four millions sterling a year on the Colonies, in Army, Navy, Ordnance, Commissariat, Kafir wars, Canadian rebellions, and the like; secondly, that for half fear millions (the sum which I propose to save by a reduction of Colonial expenditure) we might send annually to Australia 150,000 persons, and to Canada twice that number. I ask the Home, at the expiration of ten or fifteen years, from which of these two modes of expending the public money would the nation derive the

greater benefit? Our Army, Navy, and Ordnance cost us at present from air to seven millions sterling a year more than they did in 1835, when their force watt ample for the defence of the empire. What have we to show in return for this

enormous increase of expenditure? A Canadian insurrection suppressed, a Kafir war terminated, barren trophies in India—the gates of Somnauth—Hong-koug, Labuan, and the Falkland Islands. What should we have bad to show for it had only a portion of it been expended on colonization ? A third part of it (the two millions a year which I affirm can be spared from our Colonial expenditure) would have been sufficient in ten years to double or triple the British population of our Colonial empire. For instance, that sum would in ten years have conveyed a million and a half of our fellow-citizens to Australasia, where the climate is so peculiarly suited to our race, where abundance of food can easily be obtained: there, flourishing and contented, they would have been anxious to purchase our produce and manufactures; wealthy states, worthy of the British name, would have been generated, carrying on with us an enormoas trade; self-governed, they would have needed neither navy nor army to protect them, and would have gladly defrayed every local expense. That would have been a colonial empire to boast about. Again, the same sum of two millions sterling a year would in ten years have conveyed to North America some three millions--say, of Irishmen. With that sum I believe you might have created beyond the Atlantic a new and happy Ireland, so attractive to the Celtic race that they would have migrated in shoals from the old and unhappy Ireland, and thus, perhaps, have enabled you to solve that fearful problem which neither gagging bills nor coercion bills nor 'alien bills, nor even a repeal of the Union, will ever solve. That would have been a -feat for a great statesman to accomplish, and would have covered, his name with immortal renown."

But to colonize beneficially, it is necessary that the higher and richer as well as the poorer classes, the employers of labour as well as the employed—all classes of society—should migrate together; forming new communities analogous to that of the parent state. On such principles were the .colonies of Greece and of New England founded. Sir William abstained from proposing any particular plan of colonizing; his object Was merely to show that a great and noble career lies open for any states- man possessed of the power and vigour to curtail the expenditure, ret'orm the system of government, and promote systematic colonization. He concluded by moving the following resolution; intimating, that if Government acceded to it, he should next session follow up the subject by moving for a Committee. He now moved, " That it is the opinion of this House that the Coloniaiss- penditure of the British empire demands inquiry, with a view to its reduction;

and that to accomplish this object, -and to secure greater contentment and pros- perity to the colonists, they ought to be invested with 'large powers for the ad- ministration of their local affairs."*

Mr. Iltrisr seconded the motion, and enforced Sir William Moleswortleo views with further illustrations.

He showed the bad working of the present system, by the feeling universally excited against it in the Colonies. The Colonial Office is not one of the ancient , and -hallowed institutions of the country: gentlemen are alive who remember the time when there was no Colonial Office. A strange and mysterious agency is always at work in the Office, which nobody can understand, and with which no- , body can cope. A party of persons interested in one of the'Colonies paid a visit, in the character of a deputation, Mthe Secretary of State, asking the redress of some grievance. A remedy was proposed ; and the parties took leave of the Minister thankful for the kindness with which he had attended to their intermt, and reported to their friends that nothing was more satisfactory than the interview they had had. They expected they were going' to hafe their grievances redressed; but by and by, in the same evening, at some dinner-party or ball-room, some attache of the Colonial Office made it apparent that all their expectations were idle; that the Colonial Office had no intention of carrying out the measures; and that in fact the deputation had only lost their time and mistaken their errand. What could be more offensive than to fincl.that these irregular communications— these back-stairs announcements—were better founded than the solemn assn- sauces of the Secretary of State? The Colonial Office has an unlimited extent of fertile soil, a people at home naturally disposed to colonization, numbers of the working classes anxious to migrate, and almost any amount of capital: of these elements the Colonial Office has made such use, that it has rendered anything desetviog the name of coloniza- tion almost impossible. " Who are the persons that now settle iu your Colonies 2 Are they like the companions of the Raleighs and the Baltimore.s—are they men of station and property? They are no such thing. I know that even now our Colonies boast of Petres and Molesworths and Denison among their settlers; for . the ancient colonizing spirit of England is not yet extinguished, in spite of the Colonial Office. There are still men of property and reputation to be found among them; but the chief body of settlers are men of no capital, and sometimes of no character—malecontents, speculators, believers in El Dorado, and incapable& Is it out of such materials that you expect to create great and flourishing settle- ments ? " Indeed, the Colonial Office has so managed, that in place of planting settlements on the model of the British constitution, it has been instrumental in planting discontented democracies all over the globe.

Mr. Havens agreed as to the importance of the debate; bespoke the kindness and indulgence of the House while he drew somewhat largely on its attention • and humbly begged to take a share of the reproaches which had been heaped upon the Colonial Office and upon his noble friend now at the head of it.

It was not for him to presume to defend all the errors and defects which might

in t time have characterized that system; but this he did say, that our Colonial cy, taken as a whole, was the most successful and the most beneficial which the world had ever witnessed. (Cries of " Oh, old") He asked honourable * The unusual apace which we have devoted to Sir William Molesworth's very informing speech, on a subject of first-rate importance and vast extent, has not enabled us to include every point, even by abridgment. We have also omitted the exclamatory marks of attention and approval, which were frequent. Sir Wil- liam should publish his speech entire, in a separate form, for future reference. Members who thought otherwise to point to any foreign possessions either now or in past times where there had been the same success and the same progress— the same establishment of free institutions, British law, a free press, and trial by jury—as we had established in all our Colonies. Both his honourable friends referred to the old Colonial system; a phrase which conveyed to his mind no very definite ideas. It was said that the old Colonies of America were to be the model of our Colonial system. Now he hardly knew one of those Colonies which bad not been exposed to the direst vicissitudes and misfortunes; and when honourable gentlemen talked of various Colonies comprised of every grade of society, he asked them to tell him when and where they found members of the aristocracy, and men of great eminence, under the older Colonial system, going out for the

of colonization. They might find them going out for the purposes of

pwealth slave labour—they might find them going out simply for the pur- poses of gain—but certainly not for the purposes of colonization. He believed there was not one modern colony to which we might not point as a triumphant contrast to the old American Colonies. Whether we looked to New Zealand, or South Australia, or Port Phillip, or any other place where we had attempted to found a colony, everywhere the most marked success has attended our efforts; and it ought to encourage us to continue in the course which contrasted so bene- ficially with the older Colonies to which reference had been made. Not one of the old American Colonies had succeeded so rapidly, for instance, as South Ans. tralia—not one. He, therefore, was not disposed to recur to the old Colonial sys- tem, when he remembered that it comprehended monopoly and slavery.

To show that men of distinguished positions and high character fill official

positions in the Colonies, he reminded Sir William Molesworth of Lord Metcalfe and Lord Elgin, in Jamaica and Canada; Sir Harry Smith, at the Cape of Good Mena; Sir William Colebrooke, now going to Barbados; Mr. More 0 Ferrall, in Malta; Captain Grey, in New iealand; Lord Harris, in Trinidad. He agreed with Sir William Molesworth in thinking that local self-government should be the rule; and it has been carried, as in Canada, to the utmost point. But he maintained that one rale will not apply to colonies differing in climate, race, language, and social condition. Would Sir William apply the same form of government to the island of Nevis as to the Mauritius, which is a military position as well as a colony; or to our trading depots, like Hong-kong and Labuan; or to the West Indies, where there are great anomalies and difficulties in the appli- cation of self-government? Under any circumstances, they must have a home government; they must have some colonial office so long as they had colonies. And as to the despotic government of the Colonial Office, or the occult influence, and such unworthy imputations, he thought they were only thrown out to give a zest to speeches. He enlarged on the local self-government of New Brunswick— reading from a despatch written by Lord Grey on the23d of last month, advising responsible government; on the intelligence of the New Zealanders, many of whom would soon become qualified for the franchise; the deference which bad been shown to the colonists of New South Wales, in submitting to them the constitution which they-had rejected. He quoted despatches from the Cape of Good Hope, • to show that the representative constitution had only been delayed by the Kafir war.

Mr. Hawes went over some of Sir William Molesworth's figures, to parry their effect. He complained that Sir William had not included immigration in the ac- counts from British Guiana. [Sir William Molesworth observed that he had specially alluded to it.] The expenditure in Hong-kong had diminished by 6,3751. 111 1846. A fleet must be maintained for the protection of trade, even though there were no colony at Hong-kong. Post-office packets must be maintained, whether we have colonies or not. Mr. Hawes vaunted a reduction of 65,0001. in the Mauritius expenditure; besides immediate relief to the planters to the extent of 80,0001 a year, by taking the stamp-tax off labourers. He cited figures to show that the cost of Colonial government is much less than 9s. in the pound on our exports and imports combined. [Sir William Molesworth observed that he had spoken only of our exports to the. Colonies.] Mr. Hutt had said that South Australia would become a flourishing colony if the Colonial Office would act wisely. lir. Hirrr—"I said, if the Colonial Office would let it alone." (A laugh.)

Mr. ElawEs--" Let it alone! Why, if it had not been for the Colonial Office, the eelony would have been bankrupt." South Australia had been essentially a pet colony, and its management was assigned to amateurs. The result was, that they brought the colony to the verge of bankruptcy, and were obliged to come to the Colonial Office for a loan of 200,0001 odd. Subsequently, the management of the colony was transferred to the Colonial Office; and from that moment to the present it had been in a flourishing condition. Sir William Molesworth had objected to the royalties on mines in South Australia: that tax was established by Lord Stanley, after elaborate investigation: strong representations, however, having been made to Earl Grey against the tax, the royalties had been removed. It would have been as well if the honourableBaronet had made some inquiry on the subject before be indulged in sweeping assertions.

Sir WHISAM MOLESWORTH--" When were the royalties removed?" Mr. HAWES—" Very recently."

WILT IA24 MOLEWQ13TH'" SUMS@ it tres Within the last three or four

. . . . . . .

Ar. Hem said, the abolition had not taken place so recently as that.

Topove that the Colonial policy of England had not been so unsuccessful as Sir William represented, Mr. Hawes produced tables showing the rapid prosperity of South Australia and Port Phillip. New Zealand was another instance at suc- cessful colonization.

Mr. HUME--" No thanks to the Colonial Office."

Mr. HAWKS—" New Zealand applied to the Colonial Office for a loan; which was granted to a liberal amount, and the colony since that time bad made rapid progress in prosperity." Sir William Molesworth had alluded to the excessive and increasing Colonial expenditure: it had increased from 1832 to 1843-4 by about 700,0001. On look- ing to the details, however, he found that nearly the whole of the increase was limited to Canada, the Cape of Good Hope, and new South Wales; the latter being a great military station, and including New Zealand. He thought that the pre- sent condition of New Zealand and the Cape would place it in the power of Go- vernment to reduce that expenditure. The civil expenditure had increased but slightly, only 40,0001; which was accounted for by new settlements at St. He- lena, the Falkland Islands, South Australia, and North Australia. The naval expenditure had increased only 2,0001 To show the amount of interference ex- ercised by the Colonial Office, he stated, that out of 912 laws passed by the Colo- nial Legislatures in the eighteen months ending Jane 1848, only 55 had been ob- jected to by the Colonial Office.

Though he could not concur in many of Sir William Molesworth's statements, he had no objection to the motion; which be thought would strengthen the hands of his noble friend [Earl Grey] in the further prosecution of the views that he entertained.

Mr. Scorn moved the adjournment of the debate; and after some con- versation it was adjourned to that day fortnight.

REGULATION OP CHARITABLE TRUSTS.

In the House of Lords, on Thursday, the LORD CHANCELLOR moved the second reading of the Charity Trusts Regulation Bill.

By the Municipal Reform Act, charitable trusts were taken from the handa.of corporations, and placed under trustees; but there is no provision in that act for filling up vacancies in the trust, without an application to the Court of

which is too expensive a process for the means of many charities. AnotherCharm; culty arises respecting the holding of the legal property, which is said to be " in nubibus." The bill provided remedies for these difficulties. It would place all charities with incomes below 301. a year under the County C ourts in lien of the Court of Chancery; substituting a cheap for an expensive jurisdiction. The total number of charitable trusts is 28,340; of which, 23,746 have incomes under 301. a year. The County Courts, sixty in number, established in 1846, have proved exceedingly efficient for the purposes for which they were established. In the year ending 1847, the number of suits disposed of was 429,415; and the amount of money received, including 203,3181. of fees, was 605,4091. He had no doubt that ere long it would be practicable to reduce the fees nearly one half, and defray at the same time the whole cost of these courts. It was also proposed that an an- nual balance-sheet of the management of the charities should be prepared, and made open to public inspection. In cases where it was found that the original object of the trusts could not be carried out, a discretionary power as to the new application to be given to the funds should be vested in the County Courts. Funds intended for educational purposes presented peculiar difficulties, from differences of opinion; and it was proposed to place such funds under a combined jurisdiction—

the Judge of the County Court and the Education Committee of the Privy Council.

Lord REDESDALE and the Earl of Ittautownr, objecting to haste; pro- posed to adjourn the bill till next session. The Bishop of LLANDAFF took

exception to parts of the bill, especially to the discretion vested in the County Judge for educational trusts. Eventually the bill was read a se- cond time; to be committed on Thursday next.

THE PUBLIC HEALTH BILL passed its final stage in the House Of Lords cm Thursday, without discussion.

MARRIAGE LAW IN SCOTLAND. On the motion of Lord CAMPBELL, tha Marriages (Scotland) Bill was read a third time on Tuesday, and passed, after some opposition from the Earl of HADDINGTON.

THE WASTE LANDS (IRELAND) BILL stood for Committee in the House of Commons on Wednesday. It was opposed by Sir Joni WALSH, as an arbitrary attack on private property—an attempt to enact Communism. Sir GEORGIC. GREY approved of the main object at which the bill aimed; but objected to some provisions, and especially to the machinery of a Commission by which the measure was to be worked. Mr. FITZSTEPHEN FRENCH supported his bill, as an endea- vour to substitute home settlements for emigration to distant colonies; but, after a discussion in which other Members joined, he withdrew it.

THE CORRUPT PRACTICES AT ELECTIONS BILL was considered in. Com- mittee on Thursday. Colonel SIBTHORP opposed the motion to go into Com- mittee, with the aid of Mr. ANSTET and Mr. URQUHART; Mr. Anstey repeating old arguments against the bill, in a speech that lasted between two and three hours. The motion was carried, by 96 to 2. In Committee there were more ob- structive divisions, with much personal squabbling; and late at night, on the motion of Mr. BANES% the Chairman reported progress.

STEAM-BOAT CROWDE,70. On Tuesday, Mr. LABOUCHERE stated, that he had given directions for a short bill, imposing penalties on the owners of River steamers who neglect to survey and report their vessels to the Board of Trade; and also giving the Board of Trade a power in certain cases of fixing the maxi- mum number of passengers each boat might carry.

Am REGULATIONS. In Committee of Supply, on Monday, several military votes were passed. In the discussion, Mr. Osnostis criticized a new regulation obliging. officers to wear full uniform at mess, but requiring them to wear shalt jackets in undress: the one regulation was tyrannous to needy officers in point of expense, and the other was barbarous to all mpoint of taste. Indeed, the latter could only have been devised on the principle of -the savages, who disfigure them- selves in order to frighten their enemies by their horrid appearance. Mr. For MAULS defended the regulation, as the suggestion of aboard of General Officers, and as well considered by the Commander-in-chief. Mr. OSBORNE rejoined, that the truth is, some clothier who has " taste" ii generally at the bottom of these alterations. However, this shell jacket is but a red P. coat with- out tails : it is garment both shocking and uncomfortable. In reply to a question, Mr. MAULS stated, that the wives of noncommissioned officers stationed in barracks no longer sleep in the same rooms with private soldiers; but the wives of married privates are still compelled to live in the same rooms, and in the most offensive manner. The matter is under Government at- tention; and Mr. Maul. hoped before next year that all married soldiere, with leave of their officers, might live in lodgings out of barracks. The increiuted charge to the public would not be great.

DENMARK AND GERMANY. In reply to Mr. DISRAELI, on Tuesday, Lard PALmnias•row stated that he hoped an armistice on the basis of the terms at first proposed by this country would soon be agreed to by the belligerents in Denmark.

WALLACHIA. In reply to Mr. URQUHART' on Tuesday, Lord PALMERSTOR stated that he had received no information of Russian or Turkish troops having entered Wallachia. If such entrance take place, however, it will most probably not be with a view to collision, but under agreement between the Sovereign and the Protecting Power, according.to the treaty of Adrianople.