The dinner of the North Derbyshire Reformers at Chesterfield, on

Wednesday, to their Members, Mr. Cavendish and Mr. Gisborne, was enlivened by a capital speech from the latter gentleman. The tone of Mr. Cavendish was rather subdued and 1Vniggish ; but Mr. Gisborne grappled with the great question of the day, and did not shrink from

exhibiting the true state of parties, and pointing out the errors of the Whigs. He said that the minority in the country had been able to put a negative on the legislative labours of the majority, by means of foreign aid— What he meant by foreign aid, was the assistance which was derived from sources that were independent of the Representative or Democratic party in the

country. By means of this aid, the minority were enabled "to plough with

our own heifer," and by doing so, obtain their own ends. He would now just see bow this minority was composed. In the first place. it included within it all those persons connected with institutions which the public voice had marked out for reformation. It also contained those individuals who, from private interests, might or might not be affected by Reform, but who act, by a sort of esprit de corps, from some undefined apprehension that their interests will be injured by the measures which are likely to be brought forward by the Govern. ment of the country. The next class of which the minority was composed were those persons who hoped to obtain preferment and office from the Tories again getting into power. He must, however, admit that there was an ele- ment of an exactly similar nature on the other side of the question. The mino- rity contained also all those persons connected with and dependent on the hereditary part of the Legislature. He might go to the other grades of which this minority was composed; but he would come down at once to that class which consisted of the disinterested, honest, bigoted Tories. He had reason to believe that this class contained very few persons—incredibly few. (Laughter.) Be would call upon every man present to analyze the individuals in his neigh- bourhood, and he would then ask if he would not come to the same conclusion with him? He would ask any gentleman present to answer him this question, "Did you ever see an independent man a Tory, that you did not ask yourself what made that man a Tory ?" and when the matter came to be solved, the probability was that the circumstance of the man being a Tory could be traced to some Church blood. He knew a man in Manchester, who, although a Radical, an advocate for Universal Suffrage, Annual Parliaments, and of course, Vote by Ballot, and, but that he was now dead, no man would be more loud, he was sure, in his denunciations of the House of Lords ; yet this man, owing to some branch of his family having been connected with the Church, could never allow the dignity of the Church to be lowered, or its temporalities impaired. To such an extent did he carry this feeling, that, notwithstanding he was himself an Unitarian, he went up and voted in favour of the last Church-rate made in his town previous to his death. Now this was all the effect of what be called Church blood. When he made this digression, he was observing that the honest, bi- goted Tories were but few, and were not very prominent ; and the reason that they were not prominent was, that they were generally of very limited under- standing. ("Hear!" and laughter.) This description of the Tory party was that which he believed was generally entertained of it by the country at large, viz, that the Tory party were swayed by their own interests rather than by conviction; and yet this very Tory party were able, owing to the means Which he had already adverted to, to control the Legislature of the country.

The consequence of this state of things was general dissatisfaction. Why was it that in this country men lent their best support to law and order? Why, but because they believed that the laws were made for their advantage— But if the present cause for dissatisfaction continued—if the minority were still to control the majority, then would he have his fears for the email edifice ; then would he fear that all law and order would be set at nought—the whole trampled under foot. Then if men would only act with spirit and energy looking to those who would come after them—they were bound to come forward and lend a hand to get rid of such a state of things as that which he had de- scribed. And how was this to be done ? One man exclaimed " Create more Peers ;" while another demanded that the House of Lords must be reformed.

With regard to the first, he considered it a most vulgar and clumsy expedient— He would ask the projector of this proposition, in the first place, whether he meant his new Peers to be rich or poor ? If they were to be poor Peers, then he would say that, before the creation of such persons to the Peerage could be thought of, some plan must be adopted by which the avenues to Downing Street Lid Whitehall could be widened. (Laughter.) From the present state of the avenues to those places, it would be impossible that these hungry expectants after places and pensioos could find room to make their way up to the Minister. (Continued laughter.) It could not be expected that one hundred individuals —It would take at least that number for the purpose in question—who had been Created Peers of the State, would live below their fellow Peers, and the conse- quence was, that in order to sustain their own dignity they would become the . Unit venal set of men in the country. Why the old freemen would be nothing

to them. The Tories would .delight in them, because they liked every thing venal und corrupt. Well, bi:. then suppose it was intended that these Peers

were to be created from moderately rich persons, why, in that case, they mast

make Peers from persons who had at least 10,0001., fur nothing less could fairly sustain the expense of a Peer. Well, now, did the proposer of this course efin.

alder well the consequences of taking a million a yen- out of the rental of the country, and locking it up in the House of Lords ? Had he considered that by giving this increased advantage to the House of Lords, it would become worse

to manage than it was at present? But after they had made this creation of wealthy Peers, what bold would they have on them ? What security or bond had they that these Peers would vote in the way that was expected by those at whose instauce they were created ? But even if a bond could he obtained from the father, where was the security that they would be able to obtain a bond from the son ? And then again they were to recollect that the creations

would not cease with the present batch ; it would be a constant system of cre- ations ' • for they might depend upon it that the House of Lords would be always behind the People' so that in a short time, such would be the extent the crea- tion of Peers woulil go to, that in a very short time it would be very hard to find a Commoner in the land.

He would next consider the proposal to Reform the House of Peers by making it elective— He must at once say that he liked the expedient just as little as the for- mer ; and he would tell them why. He was a great admirer of the forms of the old Constitution. He had a great regard for it. It was not a reverential but a reasonable regard. His regard for the Constitution was something like the regard which he had for an old Ape, and much for the same reason, it fitted his foot, both went on comfortably together. Then if the upper leather let in wet he would get it repaired, and if the sole were broken, and allowed the stones and gravel to hurt his feet, then he would get it mended. Now he hated a new shoe most cordially, and he was sure that he would hate a new Constitution worse. Could any one imagine any thing more glaringly income plete than a new Constitution, unmellowed by time and unsanctified by old as. aociations? When an American was told that by our Constitution the son of king became the ruling Sovereign after the demise of his father, he observed, in the manner peculiar to his country—" Well, I guess that it is pretty parties. larly funny." For the American could not understand why a son who was not equally clever with his father should preside over the destinies of a great people. Well, but this remark did not gall him ; but it was a reason why he would not intrust too much in the hands of a King. The American's remarks might, he thought, he applied to the House a Lords. He was for giving the Peers great dignity and state if it so ple'ased them to possess it, but iery little power. When the House of Commons and the House of Lords held a Conference the Corn- mons stood uncovered : that, however, did not annoy him. He would, as well as he could, recite for them the order of the House of Lords in reference to the manner in which the Conference was to be conducted. It was something as follows: " When all (the Lords) bold a Conference with the Commons they (the Commons) shall be then waiting our pleasure. When we have been in- formed by our own Usher that the Commons are so waiting, we shall then pro- ceed to the Conference-Chamber, not straggling one by one—(Laughter)—hat in such a manner that the dignity of our House maybe maintained. (A laugh.) We shall sit and be covered, and they (the Commons) must stand and be liar covered, unless some of them happened to be uustripped. In that case suck persons may, out of politeness, be allowed a seat out of sight." ( Cheers, and roars of laughter.) It did not gall or annoy him to stand uncovered before the Lordships, for he had no objection to give theta any honour and dignity belong, log to them ; but while he did this he would take every opportunity of lima. ing their power.

His plan for limiting their power was this—he would do away wish their positive power by reducing it to a suspensive power. The Tories could not object to this, for they admitted that a measure sanctionedby the People ought to be passed by the Lords. It was said that the Tories rejected the bills of the Commons because they were passed by so small a majority ; but that was not correct— The argument could not apply to the session before the last, for the Com- mons sent up the Irish Church Bill to the Howie of Lords by a very large ma- jority, and yet their Lordships threw it out. Then there was the Jewish Din- abilities Bill. That bill was also sent up to the House of Lords by an over- whelming majority, and still the Howie of Lords rejected it. These facts did not prove that large majorities would induce the House of Lords to pass mea- sures in which the country had taken a deep interest. There was now a struggle for power between the House of Lords and the House,of Commons ; and he would ask them to say if they ever knew a man who possessed power give it up until he was compelled to do so ? The best thing then, in his mind, that could be done in order to limit the power of the House of Lords, without at all affecting the character of the House, would be to change its present positive power into a suspending one.

But this change, it was said, would have a Democratic tendency. To be sure it would— But were falt all their acts leading to this same result? If they did not wish this principle to thrive, why, let them shut up their national schools—let them cease to educate—let cheap publications be destroyed—let the press be destroyed ; for all and every one of these matters assisted the march to demo- cracy. But why were they afraid of this principle of democracy advancing? Let the People be but educated, and they need have no fears on this account. Democracy had been on the march in this countzy ever since the establishment of free institutions, and they might depend upon it it was not going to stop just now. When a person was travelling on the Continent, his attention was drawn to a few scattered great works, which they were told "were the acts of a paternal Governmen . for a grateful people." Yet in this country they had far greater works, both as to number and value, and yet the Government had no- thing to do with them. The truth was, that here the People were every thing, the Government nothing ; and was it possible to think of keeping down such a people as the English by such toasts as "Church and King," and " Down with the Rump?" which latter toast was, he understood. most piously revived in many well-meaning, but wrong-headed families. It was said that no change was necessary in respect to the House of Lords, because the House of Commons could stop the Supplies. This certainly was a very good measure to affect the power of the King, but it was not at all calculated to operate upon the House of Lords. The King might appoint a different Chancellor of the Exchequer whom the House of Commous would entrust with the finances of the country. He might also appoint a different First Lord of the Treasury from the noble lord at the head of that department ; but as he would not be able to pay them without the Commons gave him the means, the great probability was that he would very wisely submit it to the official character n whom the House of Coin- mono had reposed confidence. But to stop the Supplies with a view of intimi- dating the House of Lords, would fail in Its object. Nay, it was the very thing that the Tories wanted. Nothing could be more gratifaing to them than to see Lord Meloourne or Mr. Spring Rice placed in a difficulty by the House of Commons refusing to grant the Supplies. It was therefore evident from what be had said, that this remedy would be no remedy at all ; font would not be cal- culated to produce any effect upon the House of Lords, while it would go a great way in ruining the credit and character of the House of Commons.

•

Ube were asked how the change he recommended could be carried, be would say by the same means that the Reform Rill was carried—

They would iecollect that at the period of the introduction of the Reform

flI the Royal mind was wavering, but the moment it was ascertained that the people of this countty were bent upon having the great measure of Reform,—a fact that was ascertained from the demonstrations made at Nottingham, Derby, Bristol, and other large towns, where ininiense masses of the King's subjects assembled, ostensibly for the purpose of petitioning the King, by seaki to exhibit the physical power which they possessed.—when, he said, these demonstrations were made, there was no longer any doubt of the fate of the Reform Bill. While these things were taking place in the large towns, a ran was made upon the Rank of England. It was at this moinent that some presumptuous men thought that they could, with the aid of the House of Lords and the King, rule this country. He well recollected a renegade Whig who, at the moment, exhibited the must monstrous specimen of tergiversation ; and who, for his conduct upon that occasion, was now a Lord somebody. (Loud cries • f" Hear, hear!" and" Lord _Ashburton !") He well remembered, he said, slit- individual coming down to the House of Commons, and with the air of demi-official authority, moving that the house, under the extraordinary circum- stances in which the country was placed, should adjourn. The Reformers in the House of course laughed at this detnis official exhibition, but in the mean time the Royal mind was wavering, and this very same personage at length said "that he thought the best thing he could do would be to send for his old Ministers again." It was at this time, too, that the greatest possible insult was sffired to the House of Lords. They were told that unless they consented to pass the Reform Bill, a portion of the tag-rag and bob-tail should he sent in amongst them, who should not only vote o ith them, but who should also sit with them in the same House, and upon the same seats. Now this was a most gross insult upon the House of Lords. In making allusion to this House, he must not be supposed as including within his remarks any of those Peers who were connected with the old aristocracy of England. No; he was proud to speak of them as they deserved—for they were then, as now, identified with the People. It was of Pitt's Lords that be was speaking—of those Lords who were made. for the purposes of jobbing—of those Irish and Scotch Lords who were always ready to obey the will of their maker. These were the persons who, after all their proud boasting, sneaked out of the House, fearful that the threat which had been made would have been put into execution, and thus al- lowed the Reform Bill to be carried.

The business with the House of Lords was but half done then ; and, he was sorry to say, another and more important struggle was be- hind. When the time came, he should be ready, either as their Repre- sentative or as a private individual, to give the popular cause his aid. The People must put themselves under able leaders, and must not be squeamish as to the means they employed. He bad a few words to say on a subject on which much was said at present—the necessity of union among Reformers— It was said that concessions ought to be made by one class of Reformers for the sake of union. He was in favour of such a course of proceeding ; but then be must be allowed to say, that, in his opinion, the concessions ought to be =stud. They ought not to be concessions such as were demanded by a Whig Baronet in Cornwall, who refused to support one of the most talented men in the House of Commons, because he declined to give up the whole of his opinions and convictions: and this, too, was done at a time when it was most important that the Liberal party in the House of Commons should be stiengthened, in- stead of being weakened by those who were favourable t3 the ptinciple of Re- ctum. He would therefore say to Whig and Radical—and he could give this advice with perfect disinterestedness, for he hardly knew to which party lie be- longed—make mutual concessions, in order that Mc union which may take place should be permanent. And here he might be allowed to repeat what he said at the commencement of the last session, that if the Whigs had not been so selfish, but had divided fairly with the Radicals the labours and honours of office, that much would have been effected towards a certain and secure union of all parties.

Mr. Gisborne stated his desire to retire from the representation of the county, as his private affairs required his attention, and his health was breaking down under the accumulation of public and personal bibours ; but he would not give way to a Tory. If (and he had beard that there were personal objections to himself) the party which now threatened him with opposition, would agree not to oppose another gentleman of similar principles, he would gladly retire; otherwise, be would not leave the Liberals in the lurch, but remain at his post and fight their battle as heretofore.