5 MAY 1855, Page 2

Ethatto nut Vrourtings in arlinmtut.


House OF Loans. Monday, April 30. Sardinian Commissariat; Lord Ellen- borough's Statement—Militia (Ireland) Bill read a third time and passed.. Tuesday, May 1. University of Cambridge ; Lord Chancellor's Bill recommitted —Cavalry in the Crimea; Lord Hardinge's Statement.

Thersday, May 3. Conduct of the War; Lord Ellenborough's Questions, Lord Salisbury's Questions—Loan Bill read a second time—Vienna Conferences; Lord Clarendon's Statement.

_Friday, May 4. Public Business; Lord Redeedale's Resolution—Loan Bill read • a third time and passed.

House OF COMMoNS. Monday, April 30. The Crimean Telegraph ; Sir Charles Wood's Answer to Mr. Warner—The Vienna Conference ; Lord John Russell's Statement—Loan Bill, as amended, considered—Income-tax Bill committed—News- paper-Stamp Bill committed—Registration of Births (Scotland) Bill read a second time.

Tuesday, May 1. Loan Bill read a third time and passed— Itfaynooth College; Mr. Spooner's Motion—Carlisle Canonries ; Mr. Ferguson's Bill read a first time.

Wednesday. May 2. Education; Sir John Pakington's Bill, adjourned debate on second reading.

Thursday, May 3. Poor-law (Scotland); Mr. E. Ellice's Bill withdrawn—Sun- day Trading (Metropolis); Lord R. Grosvenor's Bill read a second time—Land and Assessed Taxes Divisions ; Mr. Frewen's Bill thrown out—Irish Chancery Reform; Mr. Whiteside's Bills debated—Income-tax Bill read a third time and passed. Friday. May 4. The Vienna Conferences; Mr. Disraeli's Complaint—Lord Dun- donald's Invention; Mr. French's Question—The Militia; Mr. Baillie's Complaint —Convict Labourers ; Mr. Adderley's Suggestion—Tenants' Improvement Com- pensation (Ireland); Mr. Shee's Bill read a second time—Customs-Duties Bill committed—Metropolitan Buildings ; Sir W. Molesworth's Bill read a second time, and referred to a Select Committee.


The Commons.

Hour of Hour of Meeting. Adjournment. Monday 9h .(m) 113 Om Tuesday 1h .(m) 125 45n w san.siluy Noon .... 6h 45m Thursday 4h .01 ih 30in

Friday 1 h 45m Sittings this Week, 5; Time, 4211 43ni — this Session. 66; — 912ti Ow


At an early period of Monday's sitting, Mr. DISRAELI, "seeing the noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonial Department once more in his place," inquired whether any papers would be laid on the table, and whether he would make any statement with respect to his late mission ? Before Lord John Russell could reply, Lord PALMERSTON Corrected a statement he made last week, to the effect that Russia had made no counter-proposals.. He had answered from a telegraphic message ; but

The Lords.

Hour of Hour of Meeting. Adjournment. Monday Oh • • eh 20m Tuesday 6h 611 1ous

Wednesday No sitting. Thursday Oh . 7h 25m

Friday Oh .... 719 Om

Sittingsthis Week, ; Time, 6505m

— this Session. 53 ; — 101h 431n

fiona despatches subsequently received it *wed that counter-proposals had been made, and rejected. Lord Joan Itnsazzi, cheered on' rising,,nnide a chronological state- r/MEd of the praftedings at Vienna. Ha Weved that the Government would very stordy lay upon the table the protocols of the Conference, which will convey to the House the substance of the negotiations. In the mean time, he might say a few words more without going into detail. The Conference met first on the 15th of March ; the discussions with respect to the first and second points lasted till the 26th, on which day the third point came under consideration. The Austrian Plenipotentiaries suggested that the Russian Plenipotentiaries should make a proposal cal- culated to satisfy the exigencies of the ease ; but the Russians replied that they had no instruCtions to do BO, and asked for and obtained time to refer to St. Petersburg. On the 17th April, the Russian Plenipoten- tiaries stated that they were instructed not to take the initiative, but to listen to proposals. The representatives of the Allies asked forty-eight hours to consider the form in which they should make their proposal. On the lath, that proposal was laid before the Conference ; then the Russians required forty-eight hours to prepare their answer ; and on the 21st they totally rejected the propositions. " They stated, on the other hand, the proposition on the part of their own Government ; which they said they conceived to be in accordance with the demand that Turkey should be united more closely with the balance of power to Europe, but which gave a preponderance to Russia in the Black Sea. The Plenipotentiaries of Austria, France, and Great Britain, found those pro- posals entirely unacceptable, and refused to consider them in detail. The Plenipotentiary of Austria then said, that, although this proposition had been rejected, he trusted that all the means of reconciling the belligerent parties were not yet exhausted. The Plenipotentiaries of France and Great Britain replied, that their instructions were exhausted, and that they had no further powers to consider new propositions. I then considered that the best way I could perform my duty would be to repair to my own Government, and to lay before them the whole state of the case with respect to the negotiations at Vienna, and the manner in which the conferences had been suspended. The Minister of Foreign Affairs for Franoe, two or three days afterwards, re- quested orders to return ; and he arrived last nightin Paris, and will no doubt lay before his Government what has taken place at Vienna, as well as the state of the negotiations." A dialogue ensued, kept up by Mr. Disraeli and Lord Palmerston ; the former putting questions, the latter answering. Mr. DISRAELI wished to know whether the House could not have some papers even before the pro- duction of the protocols, which would give an authentic and official de- scription of what the four points are. Lord PALMERSTON'S answers amounted to this—that the House should be placed "in full possession of the four points" ; that he could not fix a day when the protocols will be laid on the table, but they will not be delayed so long as Mr. Disraeli supposed ; and that he could not say what papers beyond the protocols will be laid before the House.

Mr. THOMAS DUNCOMBE inquired whether any negotiations of any sort or kind had been resumed at Vienna after Lord John Russell's de- parture? Lord PALMERSTON answered, that a conference had been held, at which a proposal was made by Russia, not "deemed likely by the other Powers to lead to any satisfactory result."

Mr. Bass—" Will the noble Lord tell us what part Turkey took hi those conferences ? "

Lord Jour; RussEzt —" I cannot go into details, but the Turkish Plenipotentiaries were of the same mind as the Plenipotentiaries of Great Britain, France, and Austria."

On Thursday, the Earl of CLARMCDON gave a similar explanation in the House of Lords, less minute in reference to particular dates, but more connected and lucid. On the subject of Austria he said, that at the con- clusion of the conferences, or when they were suspended, "Count Buol expressly stated, that he considered that the means for obtaining a peace were not wholly exhausted ; and that it would be the special duty of Austria to endeavour to discover some mode of attaining that end consist- ently with the engagements into which she had entered with the other powers." Whether any such proposal could be satisfactory, Lord Claren- don could not venture to any; but "it should receive a patient and un- prejudiced consideration from her Majesty's Government ; and the more so, as that consideration is at the same time quite compatible with the vigorous prosecution of military operations." Lord Clarendon explained, that "the protocols to be laid upon the table are not simply the record of a conclusion which has been arrived at, but a report of the discussions that took place, and of the feelings that were expressed by the representa- fives of each power." The Earl of DERBY, admitting the-discreet propriety of reserves, poured forth a repetition of sarcastically-expressed hopes that Austria would prove to have been sincere ; a wish to know what her policy really was; a hint that the military operations ought not to be sus- pended or relaxed; and advice that Ministers should not suffer them- selves to be diverted by these protracted and almost illusory negotiations. He heard of new negotiations with regret, and thought the demands of the Allied Powers below what ought to have been pressed upon Russia. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE, bolding it the bounden duty of Govern- ment to secure the cooperation of Austria if possible, equally held, that up to the last moment they ought not to relax any of their exertions for prosecuting the war with energy. The Earl of MALBIESBURY, speaking in allusions and hints, referred to "a very clear account," given in some paper, of Lord Clarendon's in- terpretation of the third point ; and wished to have that account con- firmed. But Lord Cterissinorr humorously disclaimed any knowledge of the despatch ascribed to him.


Oa the motion for considering the Amendments of the Loan Bill, Sir Frrznov KELLY moved the omission of clause 22, providing for the an- nual payment of 1,000,0001, after the conclusion of the war, until 16,000,000/. Consols be repaid. Why should a pledge so impolitic, and so calculated to bring the House into discredit, be imposed ? Is it likely that the-Parliament of 1860 or 1865 will adhere more rigidly to Such a pledge than the Parliament of 1815? Sir GEORGE LEWIS said, that the Government, called on to effect a loan, felt bound to make some provision for its extinction, To test the criti- cism that it could not be expected the House would set aside so large a portion of the revenue as 1,000,000/. for the extinction of the debt, he called attention to the operation of previous provisions for the same pur-

pose. Mr. Pitt's act of 1.786 provided that 1,000,9001. annually should be expended in the purchase of stock until the stuck so purchased should pro- duce an interest of 4,000,000/. to be applied in redemption of the debt. That act did not come into operation during the war. In 1823, 5,000,000/. annually was set apart for the extinction of the debt. From 1816 to 1822 the debt was reduced by 8,000,0001.; from 1822 to 1828, the period during which 5,000,0001. annually was applied under the act, the debt was reduced by 36,000,0001. Mr. GLADSTONE, Mr. HENLEY, Mr. LABOUCHERE, Mr. RICARDO, Mr.

DISRAELI, and Mr. CARDWELL, supported Sir Fitzroy Kelly's proposition. They urged the inexpediency of provisions like that proposed ; the proba- bility that those who voted for the clause, to "assert a principle," would :flinch from its maintenance when their constituents clamoured in future years for a reduction of taxation ; the pernicious character of artificial .sinking-funds, which depress national industry more than they benefit the country by taking off portions of its encumbrances ; and the inexpe- diency of infusing into the public mind a conviction that there is a facility for getting rid of encumbrances instead of making them feel that a loan is a liability that will press heavily hereafter. . On the other band, Mr. Tuoxas BARING, Mr. GLYN, Mr. WILSON, , and Lord PALMERSTON, supported the clause ; contending that it is the bounden duty of the Mouse to promise that an endeavour shall be made after the war to reduce the debt. It was not for them to think whether . future Parliaments would or would not carry out that promise. The clause attempts to provide a bond fide sinking-fund; and it is hoped it -will be the foundation of an important precedent. Lord PALMERSTON said, this country should lay down as a principle, that there should be every year, if possible, a surplus income applicable to the reduction of the debt.

. Several Members pressed the Government not to divide the House, but to ailment to the omission of the clause ; but Lord PALMERSTON in- sisted on a division.

• The House-divided accordingly—For the amendment, Ill ; against it, .210; majority for the clause, 99. . In Committee on the Income-tax Bill, Ministers consented to an amendment on clause 1, moved by Mr. HILDTARD, fixing the additional rate and duty on incomes under 1501. per annum and above 1001. at 1id. instead of 2d., as provided in the bill ; because 2.1. additional upon incomes below 1501. is a higher rate of increase than 2d. upon incomes above 1501.


In moving the second reading of the Education (No. 2) Bill, Sir JOHN PiLKINOTON said that his former statement of the objects of the bill had _been misunderstood, and he begged therefore again to call attention to them. In the first place, the bill was intended to supply a great na- tional want, and to remedy a great national evil—to bring a good school • within the reach if every door. That object he sought to accomplish by the operation of three principles. First of all, his bill rested upon the principle that they were bound by

their duty and their regard for the national character and the national safety to extend and to improve the existing means of education. His second principle was, that in deference to what he considered to be Christian . duty. and to what he believed to be the public feeling, that improved and extended education ought to be religions. His third principle was, that in seeking to provide extended and religious education for the population of this country, divided as it is in religious belief, any educational measure should be founded upon principles of the most perfect toleration. By tolera- tion he meant (to borrow a phrase from some petitions just presented to the House) perfect religious liberty, perfect and equal regard to the recognized religious denominations, and perfect liberty of conscience. With regard to the machinery by which he proposed to carry out the bill, it rested upon two principles. The first was, that the great objects contemplated should be maialy effected by means of a public fund, to be constituted by local contri- butions, together with grants from this House ; and secondly, that these funds should be administered by means of local boards popularly elected, acting upon those principles of self-government Which this country has so much at heart, and embracing within them the most educated and competent classes of the country ; but that those local boards, to guide, to watch over, and to foster education in the districts, should be superintended by a central department, duly representing and responsible to this House ; thus carrying out, in fact, a principle closely analogous to that which regulates the relief of the poor.

Mr. HENLEY appeared as the opponent of the bill, and occupied nearly the whole of the morning sitting in speaking against it : he moved, amid

• great cheering, especially from his own side of the House, that the bill be read a second time that day six months. In opening his speech, Mr. Henley said he felt that he should not have to reply to any insinuation that he was actuated by party opposition, because the bill, was brought in by a "dear and valued friend." He conscientiously believed that the bill would not extend religious education ; that it would arrest the vast .progress now going on, and run the risk of cutting the throat of a system which has done a vast amount of good. Instead of believing that the nation will be steeped in crime if the question be neglected, he believed there never was a time when we could look with greater satisfaction upon the state of the people. Ignorance and crime will always exist; although that is no reason why we should not try to abate them. Comparing the state of England with Austria, Mr. Henley attacked Sir John Pakington's statistics, and endeavoured to make out that under compulsory education in Austria fewer children attend the schools than in England, while there is a larger percentage of criminals and greater immorality in that country than in this. Mr. Hen- ley complained that his right honourable friend had dealt unfairly by statietica with which he made out his case in bringing in the bill. Sir John believed that he was securing religious education ; but let him look to America : there the ayatem was based, as Sir John proposed to base his, upon the liberty of conscience ; and that system had sunk into a merely secular system. Mr. Henley laboriously defended the present system, under which education has increased and crime and drunkenness have diminished ; under which the people are taught self-government, and taught to bear with admirable patience the sufferings that at times fall upon the nation, as they bore them in 1841-'42—as our soldiers bear them ht the Crimea. A system cannot be bad that produces such fruits. Fur- ther, Mr. Henley objected to the bill because it seemed to be permissive and was not so ; because it proposes to lay the burden of the compulsory rate upon real property; because its connexion with Boards of Guardians would place the brand of pauperism upon education ; because the com- pulsory rate would become, like the evil of church-rates, a cause of heart- burning and division in every parish. Emphatically arguing that the bill would decrease the number of schools and render them therefore leas accessible in the country districts, and that it would not give religious but secular instruction, he solemnly warned the House, that if the se- cular system were adopted, we should be going contrary to the direct command of God, who had pointed out in the clearest manner, from Ge- nesis to Revelations, that "Life is eot to be obtained through the tree of knowledge." Mr. ROBERT Plintswonz seconded the amendment. Mr. MiLea de- fended the bill from the attacks of Mr. Henley; and hoped the three bills before the House would be referred to a Select Committee. Mr. Du.twysr, a new Member, made his debut in a brief speech opposing the bill, because it would convert parishes into arenas of strife. Mr. Remo supported the second reading, but intimated dislike of some details.

On the motion of Mr. ADDERLEY, the debate was adjourned till Thurs- day. On that evening, a conversation took place on the subject; and Lord PALMERSTON said that he feared he could not fix a day for the re- sumption of the debate until after Whitsuntide. On the Votes and Pro- ceedings paper the debate stands "further adjoutned till Monday next."


• Mr. Sroosrart had fixed Tuesday night for his motion against May- nooth : when he rose to present petitions, several other Members, thiuk- ing he was about to move his resolution, rushed forward with petitions they had to present, pitching them on to the table ; and the confusion was so great that the Speaker was compelled to call upon them to " take their places," and proceed in the usual way. This ceremony over, Mr. SPOONER moved the following resolution,- " That this House do resolve itself into Committee, for the purpose of considering the acts for the endowment of the College of Maynooth, with a view to the withdrawal of any endowment out of the Consolidated Fund, due regard being had to vested rights or interests." The question for the House to consider was, whether it would maintain inviolate the Protestant constitution and the Established Church, ex- posed to the arrogant encroachments Of the Roman Catholics whom it is said we should conciliate, but who will never be conciliated until they have gained absolute supremacy. The objections to the course he was about to take he would answer as plainly as he could.

It was said he had taken the wrong time for bringing the question forward. But it is a religious, not a political question ; the continued endowment of May- Booth is a national sin, and it is always the right time to abate sin. Another objection was, that it is not right to do anything that would estrange our brave allies. Now, he had too much reliance upon the patriotic feelings of our allies to think that the course he was pursuing would create any estrange- ment between England and France. The House must be aware that the right of the Pope to exercise supremacy is creating great distrust in Prance, and a strong feeling is arising there against the Ultramontane doctrines which the Pope is endeavouring to force into France. At the present mo- ment, the Archbishop of Paris is quarrelling with the Pope about that most monstrous of all monstrous superstitions—the immaculate conception. There is as much jealousy in France against the dominion of the Pope as there is in this country. The French nation, in allying itself with this country, is actuated by a desire to support the weak against the strong and to restore peace to Europe; and he did not believe that the alliance would be affected by any such consideration as this. He was told also that it would be un- wise to offend the feelings of those Roman Catholics who are at present fight- ing in the ranks of our army: but he did not believe that any motion of this sort would have the effect of swaying them from their duty. He would say to them— We admire your valour, and respect your loyalty; but, as good Protestants, we can no longer teach idolatrous doctrine— [Mr. FAGAN here rose to order ; appealing to the Speaker whether "idol- atrous " is not an offensive expression ? The SPEAKER said, that in debates of this kind it is desirable that honourable gentlemen should abstain from using words calculated to irritate or hurt the feelings of others. Mt SPOONER said, he had no desire to irritate the feelings of honourable gentle- men, and therefore he would not use the word again.] Another objection was, that the motion violated the contract entered into with the Roman Catholics of Ireland : but, to show that it was a free grant and not a contract, he quoted passages from the speeches of Sir Robert Peel and Lord John Russell ; in which the former, alluding to the bill of 1845, said it had not been a subject of contract with the authorities of the Roman Catholic Church ; and the latter said, that if the " teachers of religion were found to have become the leaders of rebellion," then there was no valid reason why a further allowance should be given. Mr. Spooner contended that the teaching at Maynooth and the priests had violated the contract by their conduct at elections.

Coming to the report of the Commissioners, he described it as a "sham and a deceit." The evidence taken before the Commissioners had been sent by Dr. Cullen to Rome; the report had been "cooked" there, to. make things pleasant.

Did Lord Palmerston know' that in the return of the Bishop:a educated at Maynooth, the full territorial titles were given, thus—" Province of Lein- ster, the Most Reverend Paul Cullen, Apostolic Delegate " ; "His Grace the Most Reverend Joseph Dixon, Archbishop of Armagh and Primate of all Ireland." These titles were also introduced Into the printed evidence : but -Lord Harrowby had informed him the titles did not appear in the original evidence. To show how the evidence had been dealt with, he stated that he had seen proof-sheets of evidence, "the revision of the revise," that had got out of the possession of those who had to correct them. This evi- dence was for weeks and weeks in the hands of those who gave it, and it was not only revised but altered. The gentleman who furnished him with these proof-sheets was ready to prove at the bar of the House, that the witnesses, in correcting their evidence, had altered both the letter and the spirit ; and he gave an instance of one answer entirely left out of the re- port, and of nine answers condensed into one. Who was it that presumed to send the evidence to Dr. Cullen ? It was not Lord Ilarrowby, nor Dr. Time, nor Baron Pigott—" it was the other Commissioner, Mr. More O'Ferrall " ; and the Secretary for Irelend would be unworthy of his place if he did not institute a seerehing inquiry.

A large portion of Mr. Spooner's speech was taken up in showing,• from bits of the evidence that objectionable doctrines—as that equivoca- tion is lawful, that the iope has power to interfere in temporal affairs— are taught at Maynooth. He explained, that he did not propose to with- draw the grant at once, but to continue it until the young men now there have all been educated.

Mr. DUNLOP seconded the motion. He disclaimed any intention of denying the Roman Catholics their just rights. But he, and those who agreed with him, having no desire to maintain the Established Church of Ireland, looked upon the abolition of the Maynooth endowment as a step towards the overthrow of the Established Church.

Mr. POLLARD 'URQUHART, who had given notice of an amendment,

"that the House should resolve itself into a Committee to consider the existing state of ecclesiastical endowments in Ireland," withdrew that entice, in order that the House might express its opinion on the main question. Ile met two objections : if the endowment of a Roman Ca- .tholic College were an anomaly, is not the whole of the ecclesiastical sys- tem of Ireland a still greater anomaly ? and with respect to the inter- ference of Roman Catholic priests at elections, consider the peculiar rela- tion between the priests and the people. For the most part, the priests have passed their youth among the people, and is it unnatural that the people should consult the priests ? Protestant clergy interfere in elec- tions; and would Mr. Spooner admit that as an argument against the Established Church ?

Mr. Sceormaziai referred to the report of the Commissioners, not to the evidence, to show that the Commissioners had reported nothing winst either the loyalty or the morality of the students of Maynooth. He threw doubts upon some of the evidence circulated in a pamphlet by the Protestant Alliance ; and questioned whether Mr. Spooner was not contending for what he called religious truth, instead of civil and reli- gious liberty. If this grant be removed—and he should not be sorry to

• see it removed—there would be only one fair mode of doing it, and that is by sweeping away every analogous grant in the country. He moved as an amendment-

" That the House resolve itself into a Committee to consider all grants or endowments for ecclesiastical purposes, whether charged on the Consolidated Fund or annually voted by Parliament, with a view to their withdrawal, due regard being bed to vested rights or interests."

Mr. bluaeouou and Mr. BLAND opposed the original motion. Mr. ABM. Sierra junior and Mr. 110ESPALL supported it.

Mr. Housmaw declined to follow the theological arguments imported into the debate. The question was not a religious but a political ques- tion: it was a question whether the far-seeing policy pursued sixty years ago—whether the wise policy pursued during the last twenty-five years, which has been alike beneficial to England and Ireland—should be re- versed.

Starting from this point, Mr. Ilorsman reminded the House of the circum- stances under which the grant was proposed by a Tory Minister, Mr. Pitt, and sanctioned by a Protestant Parliament without a single dissentient : and he showed that it was not a more boon to the Irish people, but a matter of state policy, adopted with the view of withdrawing Irish priests from the Continent, where they imbibed foreign principles hostile to the religion and constitution of England. The policy, begun in 1795, was ratified by the Union, supported, in 1808 and 1812, by Mr. Perceval ; and settled by Sir Robert Peel in 1845. No leading man, on either side of the House, who had been intrusted with the conduct of public affairs, had supported the with- drawal of the grant. That showed their sense of the obligation to support it. Turning upon Mr. Spooner's speech, Mr. Horsman sharply touched upon the mode in which Mr. Spooner had dealt with the evidence,—making it a charge against Maynooth that in a return presented to Parliament the Archbishop of Armagh had been designated by his territorial title ; and, on the faith of an anonymous gentleman, vouched for by two other anonymous gentlemen, asserting that the seven answers of Mr. Flanagan had been com- pressed into one. While Mr. Spooner said the Roman Catholics would de- stroy the Church unless we repealed this grant, Mr. Dunlop said Maynooth was One of the buttresses of the Established Church, and be wanted to de- stroy the buttress in order that he might bring down the Church. Both Members appealed to the evidence, but carefully avoided the report. They hive had their inquiry, and now they are not prepared to abide by the re- sults; and they ask the House to come to a conclusion directly at variance with the report of the Commissioners.

Mr. Nee= supported Mr. Spooner ; contending that the State policy which proposed to get a well-educated and loyal priesthood had failed; and that Parliament, being in a false position, could only escape by a frank and honourable review of the past.

On the motion of Mr. Sergeant O'BRIEN, the debate was adjourned till the 6th June.


The Committee on the Newspaper Stamp-Duties Bill was resumed on Monday.

Sir GEORGE Lewis stated that he intended to omit the clauses in the bill relating to registration and securities ; thinking it better that the law, although unsatietectory, should be left in its present state. The clauses were omitted.

At present, the privilege tf retransmission through the post-office is abused by persons who send large quantities of newspapers by post to be sold as waste paper. On the motion of Sir Gmiaca Lewis, a clause was added limiting the privilege of retransmission to fifteen days.

A very long debate arose upon an additional clause proposed by Sir GEORGE LEWIS, giving newspapers copyright, for twenty-four hours, in every original article, letter, paragraph, communication, and compo- sition, which should be published in such newspaper for the first time ; and providing that if any person shall print a copy of the same, or any part or colourable abridgment thereof, he shall forfeit a sum of not less than 51. nor more than 80/. for every such offence ; the penalty to bp recover- able by summary proceedings before a Stipendiary Magistrate or two Justices. The clause was introduced to show that the Government bad no intention of encouraging piracy ; but at the same time, it was ad- mitted that the clause would be a detriment to the public if the pro- prietors of the London newspapers exercised the powers conferred in a harsh or oppressive manner.

The clause met with strenuous opposition from Mr. WHITESIDE, Mr. J. G. PHTLLIMORE, MT. BENTINCH, Mr. GIBSON, Lord LOYAINE, Lord Sresiney, Mr. Iliceeno, Mr. Damn; and Mr. Dentims. It was con- tended that there is no copyright in news; that the proposed tribunal for trying alleged cases of piracy wee not at all St for the duty to be im- posed upon it ; that, admitting good news and valuable commentary de- served protection, it could not be protected and that no man has any right to claim copyright in anonymous articles.

The clause was supported by Mr. PIIINN, the SOLICITOR-GENERAL, and Mr. W. J. Fox ; who pointed out that cheap daily journals would pirate and publish the contents of the morning papers by ten in the morning, at one-third of the coat; and that without some provision for copyright the jouynals of this country will be reduceel to the American level. Ai the elime-of the long dispute, the manner in which his proposition had been received en both sides of the House induced the Chancellor of the Exchequer not to'press the clause; and it was negatived accord- ingly.

MoNcitoN Muritiiiinoted a clause, that every periodical publica-

tion, published at intervals not exceeding seven days, and the superficies of which should not exceed 3500 inches, should be entitled to retransmis- sion through the post-office if stamped with the appropriate die of id. Another long discussion ensued, at the close of which the clause was ne- gatived by 260 to 86.

The bill pained through Committee.

hum Liw RzeortN.

In moving the second reading of the first of six bale—the Court of Chancery (Ireland) Jurisdiction Bill—parts of a scheme for reforming the Court of Chancery upon the English model, and including a remedy for the defects of the Encumbered Estates Court, Mr. Warrasum elabo- rately described the abuses of the existing system, from his point of view.

The six measures he proposed abolish the Masters Office; amend the pro- cedure of the Cond upon the model of the English Court ; provide for the appointment of Receivers; transfer the business of the Encumbered Es- tates Court to the Court of Chancery, together with the power of giving Parliamentary titles; and provide for a Court of Appeal.

Mr. Fnzoeitsi.n severely criticized the provisions of the proposed measures, and called upon the House to reject them, on the ground of inadequacy, and because the Commission, appointed last year to inquire whether it would be advisable to transfer the business of the Encumbered Estates Court to the Court of Chancery, has not yet reported. When the report is presented and bills are founded on it, Mr. Whiteside shall have due credit for all the suggestions he may contribute. Mr. Fitzgerald moved that the second reading of the bills be deferred for six months. A rather warm discussion ensued between the legal friends of Mr. Whiteside, MT. CAIRNS and Mr. MALTNS, and Mr. KEOGH, with respect to the merits of the bills, the merits of each other, and the propriety of anticipating the report of the Commissioners. Ultimately, Mr. HENLEY advised that the debate should be adjourned until the report be presented. The debate was adjourned accordingly till the 31st May.

Semen Pope-Law.

Mr. E. ELLICE moved the second reading of the Poor-law (Scotland) Bill His objeot *as, not to interfere with the existing law, but to pro- vide better means of enforcing it. Practically, the pauper has no re- dress under the present system, and he is defrauded of his privileges. To remedy this evil, Mr. Ellice proposed to appoint Inspectors, wholly independent of the Board of -Supervision which now treats Complaints with contempt, and empowered• to make regular visitations and report the result to 13arliement. Ile assailed the conduct of the Board of Su-

pervision, and Ito Chairman, Sir John with much warmth, and illustrated his statement by the details of alleged cases of neglect. -

The Loeb A-lived...re opposed the bill, as unnecessary, and not cal- culated to produce the desired effects. Ile defended the Board of Super- vision and Sir Yohn 111‘24eill; and hoped Mr. Ellice would leave the matter in the handief the Government.

After some further discussion Mr. &Lice acceded to this request, and withdrew the bill.


Mr. PEE WEN moved the second reading of this bill. Its object' was to give the Treasury power to alter existing divisions, if necessary. Sir GEORGE LEWIS objected to the bill, that it is unnecessary; and it was thrown out, by 125 to 35.


Lord Reimer (inosvasou moved the second reading of the Sunday Trading (Metropolis) Bill; the aim of which is to _prevent Sunday trading in Louden.. Mr. WILEUSSON, Mr. THOMAS Dutiocaum, and My. W. J. Fox objected to the bill, because it legislates against the

Lord EBRINGTON Lord BLANDFORH, Sir 'GEORGE GREY, Sir OHN SHELLEY' and others, supported it, as a measure that is desired by the poor and the 'tradesmen of London. The bill was read a second time; and the Committee was fixed for the 13th June.


The Earl of ELLENzonocon put several questions to Lord Panmure, on Thursday, respecting the meaning of thp memorandum from the War Office relating to the Indian Army ; also respecting the employment of Indian officers ; end the formation of a corps of navvies' to be at- tached to the army. -- Lord Par:muss Implied, that the memorandum goes no farther in its spirit than it does in its letter—" namely, to confer upon Indian officers a suitable position and authority, which has hitherto been recognized by courtesy, but with respect to which some doubt previously existed." Al- though he rejeleed that a mark of favour should be shown to Indian officers, yet he thought their services have been used to put the officers of the Queen's service in the background. The opportunity of practi- cally learning the art of war has great advantages ; but those advantages ought not to be used as an argument to prevent the Government from giving the Queen's officers an opportunity of showing whether they can carry theory into practice.

"I cannot see„" he said, "because the Indian officers have already carved with their swords the way to military distinction, why the same opportuni- ties should be denied to the Queen's officers of earvine* with their swords the way to the same military distinction. I have seen it stated that the officers in the Queen's service are now classed in two classes—the Peniusulars, who are said to be tee old to be effective ; and the Know-nothings, who are too young. Thetis not a fair mode of treating the officers of her Majesty's army."

It has been found necessary to recall some Indian officers holding staff appointments in the Queen's army, because their absence was detrimental to the Indian army.

With respect to the "navvies," it has been determined,to Ibrm- a corps of stout working men, to work either in the trenches or in the camp, while the army is engaged in thieeisiga. Ne'definite BUM has been fixed .upon as the amount of pa) ment to them ; but it is utterly. impossible to expect that men will come from civil employments, either 111 the capacity of labourers or of directors, for the usual pay given to persons in her Ma- jesty's service.

Sonic questions have been put in the House of Lords respecting de- lays, orders and counter-orders, and mismanagement attending the re- cent embarkation of the Guards in the ship Alma. The most serious al- legations were, that they had been sent in their old clothing, and were armed with smooth-bore muskets. The Marquis of SALISBURY, support- ed by Lord WYNFORD and the Duke of CAMBRIDGE, called attention ,to these things on Monday, and made inquiries of the Minister of War.

As Lord PANNWHE had not been informed of the precise terms of the questions to be put to him, he promised to answer them on Thursday; and accordingly, on that day he made an explanation. On the '20th March, the Admiralty notified to the Minister of War that the Alma would be ready to receive 1420 men on the 5th April, The Alma took on board 420 troops at Liverpool ; but when she reached Portsmouth, the surveyor there, in opposition to the surveyor at Liverpool, reported that she could only carry 1048 men. The Guards were therefore de- layed only as long as was requisite to disembark the detachments brought from Liverpool. It is not correct to say that any of the baggage of the detachment was carried off in the Alma, except as to articles belonging to two officers, who might have obtained them had they taken the least trouble. The orders and counter-orders had arisen from the fact that a storm prevented the Alma from getting into her proper place at Ports- mouth. With respect to the arms, the Guards would receive the Minie musket at Constantinople. They carried their smooth-bores to perform the usual drill on the voyage.

• In reply to Mr. Cora.ren, Sir CHARLES Woo]) stated that the vessels to be employed in blockading the ports of the • White Sea are now ready, have received their orders, and will proceed to their destination as soon as it is practicable from the state of the ice to approach the ports they are to blockade.


In reply to Lord Vivien, Lord HARDINGE stated that when General Scarlett left Balaklava, there were 1300 effective cavalry and 400 horses in the Crimea ; that with two regiments Sent from thiscountry, and two regiments from India, there will soon he more than 3000 effi- cient men there. At home we have 1000 recruits and .1500 horses ready for foreign service._


The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH. wished to know whether any convention with the Sardinian Government exists .specifying :what Ragland and France should do with the view of securing and facilitating the supply of food necessary for the Sardinian contingent; and whether he Commis- sary-General in the Crimea, when applied to on the subjeet, had stated that he was unable to supply the requisite amount ?- Lord Ellenborougb, estimating the number of rations that would shortly be required to supply the British army, the Turkish contingent, General Beatson's cavalry corps, the reserve at Malta, and the Sardinian troops, at 80,000 rations, pressed upon the Government the necessity of providing persons, not from the ranks of the army, for the purpose of acting the various situ- ations under the Commissariat At present there is a loss to the army of

4000 Men detached on Commissariat service. ,

Lord Palawan stated, that there is no convention with the Sardinian Government, but an understanding that, to avoid contention in the mar- ket, L the Sardinian troops should be supplied from the British Commis- sariat, paying for the rations they require. At first, Mr. Filder expressed some alarm as to procuring. supplies ; but neither Lord Raglan nor Mr. Filder expressed any doubt, that, with sufficient Means at their disposal, they could supply the army. By the last mail, Sir John WNeill inform- ed Lord Panmure that supplies existed amply sufficient fOr any number of troops which it can fall to Mr. Filder's lot to supply. The Turkish con- tingent and General Beatson's cavalry will not be supplied from means at Mr. Fader's disposal. With regard to detaching men for the Commis- sariat service, Lord Raglan is reducing the numbers now employed ; but it is feared that when the army begins to mote it will be necessaryto detach men from the ranks in preference to employing persons who may plunder the army. THE CRIMEA* Tntotortern.

In reply to questions from Mr.' Inurian and Mr. GROGAN; on Monday, Sir thwatua Wocin stated that the telegraph from the Crimea to Lc.ndon was complete except across the Datubilietween Rtuffehtiolikiliferiurgeiii. The last despatch from Lord Raglan was datedSenday, and received on Monday. The Purport of that despatch was--" Lord 'Raglan iteknoiv- ledges the receipt of a despatch from Lord .Panmure, and itaks when the Sardinian untingent is to be sent?" (Litagliter.): wThere was no news Whatever Of any kind;" Said Sir Chades1/2-"eete the raising of the siege olSebastopol ; in which, indeed, I do not believe., There, is no commu- nication Whatever on that subject, further than a statement:..ef the tern- porary discontiniumee of the fire upon -Sebastopol:" • 7 ' 'Tire SEHANTeroi, INQUIRY.

Captain Mint of the Transport Department, was examined on Friday

last week, and recalled on Monday. .

I1' The Victualling and Transport Department is one. of the Admiralty at Somerset House. ' rerepiving hi; • "'ilast, that Mr. Grant, the Controller, would be tillable to talta u -self the duties of transport in addition to victi4mg, i!aptaiuMi1n, ,itaeunaed the responsibility Of making all thearringebienti for send.ri fr- pia, stores, and horses, out of the country: He held that pest ihtil ..,ebruary this year. The vessels engaged were never engaged witlioiAretard to price ;, they were engaged on the gross tonnage, the best modeof,remuneration; in every case they were surveyed ; ,aocLibe embarkations of troops and stores were superintended by Admiralty agents. In sending horses, the loss upon 5248 between England and. Constantinople had been only 3 per cent.- The loss in the Black Sea Was caused by the: fittings having been taken down at Varna and improperly replaced. For shipping stores, medical or -otherwise, the 'shipping-agent of the Ordnance De- partment, and the captain of the vessel, are responsible., .Stores not marked " urgent " are not sent on by steam, but by the firat ship. Admiral Beter-is a zealous officer. - Herbed been once tiled as an able seaman, and had risen byhis merit. He is conversant' With the trans- port service; and had been harbour-master • and head of the -transports at Quebec. He never complained of a deficiency of tele:one/ref -flonaten.- tinople—the Admiralty always believed there was a seperabundance. A certain number of transports were placed absolutely at the disposal of the Commissariat. There is nothing in the forms required by the Admiralty that checks the public service. The regulations for masters of transports, alleged to have been drawn up last century, were really drawn up in 1843 and 1845. During the year in which he conducted the transport service he expended on it 3,000,0001. The largest amount of transports employed was on the 27th April 1855; when there were 113 steam-ships, of an aggregate tonnage of 127,280 tons, and 103 sailing vessels, aggre- gate tonnage 90,958 tons. It would have been more economical to have bought the transports ; but had they been bought, they could not have been manned ; • the service could not have been carried on at the Govern- ment ports; the dockyards were overdone with work. The question was fully considered by the Admiralty, and it was deemed advisable to char- ter vessels. In three months, between the 1st December and the 1st March, 85,000 tons of stores were sent to Balaklava ; where there were no means of putting them ashore. If the wounded were not supplied, with necessaries on their passage between Balaklava and Scutari, the prin- cipal agent of transports, and the authority who reported the ship fit for the reception of the sick, were responsible. The Admiralty had never re- ceived any suggestion to provide hospital-ships ; but hospital-ships should have been provided.

Captain ifilne read a report from the principal agent of transports at Balaklava to Sir Edmund Lyons, denying that any vessel had arrived at that port laden with boots and shoes, the cargo of which' had been re- fused, or that any ship had been sent to Constantinople for the purpose of buying boots and shoes.

Captain Tallon, -of the Sea Nymph, was examined on Monday. He stated that he had taken twenty-four casks of boots and shoes on board at Constantinople in August with orders to convey them to Varna ; that they were not received at Varna, because no papers had been sent with them ; that he carried them on several voyages ; that they were three times refused at Balaklava, and at last "shoved" ashore there on the 8th November.

Commander Hillyear, of the Agamemnon, on the same day, said that the Naval Brigade were much better off than the troops during the win- ter. They were supplied from a store-ship made of a transport, dis- masted on the 14th November : when the roads ,became impassable, the men and officers carried up their own provhdons. The men were in bed three 'nights to one out; they found their messes ready cooked when they came from the trenches; they dug eaves and hutted themselves ; and there were never more than 60 out of 1400 in hospital.

Sir John Burgoyne gave evidence on Tuesday ; but, from the low tone in which he spoke, he was imperfectly heard. He said he was a, Lieutenant-General on the Staff in the Crimea; and while there he principally directed the siege operations which Were carried out by officers of Engineers. He admitted that there were' not men enough to execute the works required.' He frequently applied for working parties, and could not get them. "The extent of , the attack he undertook was greater than the force could do with rapidity." lie vraa in hopes that the Army would not be detained before he '*, until this bad weather came; but after the first day's fire he altered his opinion. Sir John underwent a long examination on the subject of the ciumunie: cation between the trenches and Balaklava.

" Was your attention directed to the state of the road between the middle of October, when the fire ceased, and the middle of November, when the bad weather set in ? "—" Our force was too small to do anything. • A large force would have been necessary. The road is seven or eight miles long, over a bad soil ; and the construction of n road would have requited enormous means."

"So you think you saved labour by allowing the road to go to ruin ? "— "It would have been better to have had a good road, but we had scarcely men enough for the trenches."

"Would it not have been advisable to have withdrawn the men from the trenches for a time and set them to make a road? "—" Certainly not. We should have been in a much worse position. The enemy would have advanced upon the trenches and the rear, and we could hardly have kept our camp." .

"You think it was advantageous that the men should be employed making, trenches and not a road ? "—"I think so."

"Notwithstanding the horrors which the men suffered from the want of a'' road ? "—"I do not think those horrors so much depended Upon the road as is generally supposed?'

"Then, if the Commissariat officers say they could not supply food to the men and forage to the horses in consequence of there being no road, you think they exaggerate the mischief? "—"The The auppliee would have been bet- ter brought up if there had been a good road, but the supplies were not ao deficient as is generally supposed. A great part of the army was sever del- cient„ and those who were so only occasionally had half-rations. There was nothing like general starvation. If there had been a good road, the supplitte would have been brought up quicker; but the cattle died from want of care and the inclemency of the weather." "On whose part was that want of care ?"—" On the' part of.the persons, whoever they were, who had charge of them. I consider it:a national defect of the British that they do.not take that care of their animals which other troops do."

These questions, repeated in several shapes, always elicited substan- tially the same replies. If " nnvvies," with carts and horses and tools,,' had been sent out early in November, it would have been a better mea- sure than the railroad ; "but it was not thought of then." It would not have been advisable to have obtained workmen from the .coasts of the, Mick Sea ; for they would have failed as the Turks failed. Lord Rag- lan might have inquired into the state of the transport animals, but or- ganization was wanting. It is true that the Duke of Wellington organ- ized a transport-service, but not in the midst of the difficulties them-. selves: he submitted to great inconveniences at times, and "when there came a quiet time he took steps to organize and cure defects."

Interrogated with respect to the tools, he said a large quantity were. sent out, and there was no serious deficiency.

When he found the quality was impugned, he went to the dep6t and looked at the tools in store • and the first thing which-struck him was that they. were of the old. Peninsular pattern, of a large kind, much the best for use m England, but not so convenient for soldiers as the emiller pattern now in use by the army. He thought that those mote were of the old stock which had been sent from Malta. Upon inquiring the quality of the cutting tools, the Sappers, who were good workmen and understood the use of tools, said they might be of a better description, but they did not make any par- ticular complaint Tools get damaged when they are not properly employed. Hs had seen soldiers using pickaxes to get out the root of a tree, and the pick getting under a piece of rock, the man has thrown his whole weight upon the other end, when it naturally broke. But he did not think that the evidence of General Bentinek, Sir De Lacy Evans, the Duke of Cambridge, and others, could have been without foundation. They might have seen "pioneer tools," or some particular tools of bad quality. If bad tools were sent from Malta, the storekeeper was responsible. The great mass of the tools were supplied by the Board of Ordnance; they are furnished to the Board by contract at the lowest tender.

In reply to questions put by Mr. Drummond with the view of ascer- taining the value of insinuations imputing to Lord Raglan a desire to monopolize the best buildings, Sir John explained, that the house which

bore Lord Raglan's name at Balaclava was chiefly used for the reception of sick and wounded officers. Asked if he knew Lord Raglan's head- quarters on the plateau, he said, " Yes ; I lived there. It had a good roof, wails, and windows. But Lord Raglan lives in one room; his Staff reside with him ; Colonel Steele, the Secretary of the Staffi sleeps in his office."

Incidentally, Sir John expressed his opinion that "all our institutions for the field are inefficient" The admission was taken up by the Com- mittee; and when examined in detail, Sir John qualified his opinion. The Commissariat was particularly inefficient; he would give it a more mili- tary organization, and include in it the Land Transport service. The Artillery is very good and efficient. The Infantry is perfect. The Engineers want field equipment, more officers, and more Sappers. A corps of lighter cavalry than any we now have is desirable. The Staff is very good; and the principle of selection—by the choice of the general officer commanding, who is conversant with the merits of officers—is also Pod.

"Does not Fergusson's theory of fortification apply...to the works con- structed by the Russians ?"—" No ; the Russian plan is that which has been followed this hundred years, field-works constructed along the surface of the ground. The Russian field-works are of a very inferior description."

• ." You think they are inferior to masonry ? "—" Yes."

"Yet they have been strong, enough to resist the attack on them ?"— "That is because the Russians have a large army behind them, and 300 or 400 cannon : but the works themselves are of a very inferior description."

"Were the Russian works what are called flanking works ? "—"I think they were imperfect in that respect."

"They were not circular works like those described by Mr. Fergusson ? " —"No ; they are constructed,on the ordinary system."

Mr. Grant, Controller of the Victualling Department of the Admiralty, was examined on Wednesday. Minute inquiries were made of this wit- ness into the methods of transacting business in his department, espe-; Wally with regard to tenders for contracts, and the mode of ascertaining whether goods supplied are the same as the samples furnished. The Ad- miralty, he said, has been much more stringent for the last two or three Pisars than it was before; and almost every possible precaution has been taken to insure the contract business being done in a fair and honourable manner.

Mr. -Grant threw some light on the unroasted and unground coffee ltiestions., 'The first requisition made to him was for unroasted coffee ; but, suspecting some error, he wrote to Mr. Filder to inquire whether the 'requisition Was correct. On the 28th February 1854, Mr. Filder replied, that be had consulted several military officers, and they thought the sol- diers woad find some means of overcoming the difficulties arising from the want of mills and coffee-roasters. Subsequently, Mr. Filder called on 'Mr. Grant, and, speaking of the coffee, said that if sent outroasted it would probably get spoilt. Mr. Grant proposed to send out small mills which had been used to grind pepper for the ships. The Treasury accordingly gave orders for a "small supply "—for six mills, in fact. [" Six

mills to grind a hundred thousand pounds of coffee!" exclaimed Mr. Roe- beck.] Roasted coffee was sent out in July last ; after that, unroasted coffee was sent until the 1st October. Ground coffee, packed in air-tight tins, was first sent out on the 6th January 1866. Questioned respecting the frauds perpetrated by contractors, Mr. Grant said, that to prevent fraud, the Admiralty had been compelled to maim- facture largely themselves. For instance, it was found that mustard de- livered by contractors was not mustard at all, but pepper and other in- gredients coloured with turmeric. In the same way, the flour supplied was mixed with plaster of Paris, and the vinegar adulterated with sul- phuric acid. In consequence, the Admiralty had established a mustard manufactory and flour-mills of their own, and were about to manufacture vinegar.

Sir Hew Ross was the second witness on Wednesday. He is Lieu- tenant-General of the Ordnance, appointed on the 6th May 1864, to per- - form the duties of Lord Raglan, the Master-General, during his absence. He had the same powers as the Master-General, except this—he could , not set aside the decisions of the Board. The Board manages all the- -material of war ; but neither the Master-General, the Surveyor-General, nor the Clerk of the Ordnance, is an Artillery-officer. He, Sir Hew Ross, is the only Artillery-officer on the Board. There is not an instance of an Artillery-officer having ever been Master-General of the Ordnance. It is not necessary that he should have any knowledge of artillery. Some questions were put to this witness with respect to the clothing of the troops ; but, being repeated, they were more particularly answered by the next witness, Sir Thomas Hastings, Controller and Storekeeper of the Ordnance. He informed the Committee, that the question of the Ordnance providing the general clothing of the army has been discussed ; • but it is a mistake to suppose that the system of clothing the army 'through the Colonels is abolished. What system is now in operation he " could not say ; but he understood some arrangements have been made for putting an end to the contracts through the clothing Colonels. "I conclude," he said in answer to further questions, "that the system of • supplying the clothing through the Colonels is abolished, but that in some • way or other it still goes on, because the Board of Ordnance does not supply it."

CM-Thursday, Sir Thomas was examined at great length on the details of his department. The gist of his evidence was to the effect—that great care was taken in making contracts, and in seeing that they were pro- perly and promptly carried out ; and that rules and routine were never allowed to stand in the way of the public service. He was strongly of opinion that the official person who, at Balaclava, refused the cargo of boots and shoes, alleged to have been proffered by the captain of the Sea Nymph, committed a great breach of duty. "It is very • wrong of officers to be chaffering about straws when the great object is to have - the supplies." Mr. Layard said, interrogatively—" It has been stated that the soles of the boots, instead of being solid leather, were made of abrade?" To which Sir Thomas replied—" I think you have not served so long an apprenticeship to shoemaking as I have : I am a bit of a shoemaker, and I know that the soles of boots are always made in that manner." Mr. Layard ceased to ask questions about boots and shoes. • With respect to the tool question, Sir 'Thomas adopted the view of Sir John Burgoyne, that the tools broke in the hands of unskilful persons. But he admitted that a certain portion of the tools are supplied by the

• ,Board of Ordnance; and the rest, the greater part, are supplied by the Colonels of regiment& The same is the case with boots and shoes,